Parts of the game that unbalance PVP, among other things. Not necessarily weapons.
Debuff laundry list:
Striker Shield (0*)
Warmaster Rocket Hammer(5*)
Other weapons that could use a buff:
Dark Retribution -- IMHO totally wrecked by update after its release, but why in the entire universe did they not debuff the hammer?! -- (5*)
Irontech Destroyer -- (5*)
Iron Slug -- (5*)
Sudaruska -- not badly, but it is a little outmatched by triglav. -- (5*)
Thoughts, opinions?
As long as gunners lose polaris/supernova and bombers lose RSS, go ahead.
Anyway, Swordmen will quickly switch to brandish charge spam, problem?
People need to understand that in a game there will always be a "Players Choice" Gear or weapons.
For example, on Counter-Strike everyone uses either AK-47, M4A1, AWP and/or Deagle.
They are not OP, they are just the best weapons in that game, and they are the best choice for players if they want to win.
Also, Why would you debuff Gran Faust and not Divine Avegner? They are supposed to be almost the same thing (You hate lockdown players much?) I could just switch to Divine avenger, no bid deal...
regardless of wether it would or would not make any aspect of the game better and more balanced (LD, PvE, whatever), i can not support any form of nerf'ing gear thats already on the game.
I've said it in other threads, and i'm going to repeat it here. From a moral and ethical standpoint, i think it is wrong for OOO to go back and nerf (or debuff if you will) any weapon or armor. Its too much of a bait-and-switch. Imo, it is simply wrong to go back and make an item obsolete after so many knights have either:
a) spent a ginormous chunk of ce to purchase that item because it served a purposes so thoroughly (i'm looking at you GF, BTB, FF asi vh).
b) spent an amazing amount of crowns rolling for a specific UV or UVs (primarily looking at you multi-max skolver gear.....i.e. jempire).
While the balance would help all, and the nerf would hurt only a few, its still fundamentally wrong to "Screw over" those few in such a royal manner. I say this, even given that this would not bother me what-so-ever as i don't play LD, nor do i have any of the above mentioned gear. I still believe in fundamental right and wrong, and this would be fundamentally wrong, unless they were offering some sort of grand compensation to those they'd be hurting so dearly.
note: see the bait and switch that was the Dark Retribution.
How dare you consider rocket hammer op. It has many draw backs to counter it's pure elemental.
making the GF's charge a 3 pronged quick charge with far less drawbacks, btw. But thats a pve balance, and b/c i have a vh ctr GF, lol..
I'm also for making the troika line on par with the levi
Hmm, I would have said toothpicks for PVP and brandishes for PVE. Don't really think the heavy swords are OP in LD, just that the wide swing works well there.
I'm a bomber, but I do not stand for baiting and switching especially considering DA's popularity in FSC and BTB/FF 's anti-fiend capabilities.
Don't nerf items for PvP... Plz no. Only a small minority of people play Lockdown, compared to the vast majority who just runs around the Clockworks.
Change Lockdown, not the weapons used in Lockdown.
+1 to Rommil
If you nerf my Rocket Hammer and BTB, I'm gonna hurt you. As a dedicated PVE sword master, I would just like to submit that the high damage of these swords is necessary for their usefulness.
As with any sword, you need great damage and knockback to compensate for the fact that you have to get elbow-deep in angry monsters in order to use them.
I don't play lockdown often, so I can't testify to their abilities in LD, but before any changes are made, you must consider the fact that this is primarily a PVE game.
Those are my two cents, so in conclusion: Nerf my swords and I will hurt you
Like rommil says, if you want to do something Its with the Striker booster
Nerfing the weapons would bring to a big impact in PvE (Wich is supposed to be the MAIN part of Spiral Knights)
And my BTB. That cost me a lot of shinies...
To be honest, the btb feels like it got stealth nerfed on its damage. In a full party, i used to be able to one charge shot a trojan in fsc without damage buff items.
Now it takes two shots and a stab...
Idk about that, I don't really pay attention to that too much, too busy trying to outsmart the dang things... XD. If it did get stealth nerfed, then I didn't notice it
Trojans are super easy. What you wanna do is get to a wall, while charging btb, and wait for them to charge. Once you see that red charge glow, MOVE. If he does a swing, thats when you get behind him and give it to him.
I use the same effect on slag gaurds and rocket hammer, makes em so easy to manage.
(inB4scathingrebukebyAsukalan)
I don't think an interrupt debuff would really hurt FF and BTB in PvE. If recons are made of swiss cheese, Devilites are made of melted butter, and Greavers... shoot, looking at them funny interrupts them. (Unless you're a bomber- another reason not to touch our RSS, please.) Trojans, interrupt really doesn't help- you want the Trojan to be facing away from you, remember? Silkwings... oh, right, interrupt does nothing to them anyway.
Wolvers and Chromalisks HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Seriously, they're a joke right now, unless you get unlucky and caught in an Electrolisk's spit, and get zapped over and over... but if you're up there with a Flourish, you're not standing where the spit will linger. Besides, you can easily walk around a Chromalisk or Wolver. As for groups of Wolvers, just use DBB. Failing that, walk around and wait for the chance to attack, it's not like you don't do that with other mobs.
As for bosses, Snarby can't be interrupted because he doesn't attack while Stunned, and Vana... you generally try to stay away from Vana. He's not very easy to approach, with those fire orbs. So lowering the interrupt factor on Flourish enough to where players stood a fighting chance after getting hit once, but keeping it high enough to interrupt that stupid Devil-IT with his **** computer that **** causes **** Shock which is **** annoying. (I hate getting Shocked, did you know that?)
Also, the first swing really oughta be more of a stab. You don't swing a rapier like that, it'd snap like a twig. Remember, I've already established I'm Iron Man, and that makes me the weapons expert.
However, other changes could add more balance. Take damage bonuses vs. type. If each armor set was assigned a Monster type, and the damage bonuses applied double on someone in two pieces of the same set, you'd suddenly start seeing a lot of Dragon Scales and Arcane Salamanders, to capitalize on the damage bonus vs. Beasts. To counter this, people would take the defensive route and go Demo or Gunslinger- only to be hit by Construct or Gremlin bonuses, respectively.
An anti-Gremlin armor set would have to come with this, but think- it could add a new level of strategy to Lockdown! Plus, Punch wouldn't be such a troll when he put Beast or Gremlin Very High on your Storm Driver. This isn't my idea- it was someone else's. It was they that decided Gunslinger should count as Gremlin-type armor.
Finally, I'd like to hijack this thread for begging purposes. Can I please have this much CE? (Obviously, I'm kidding. Nobody has that much... or do they?)
I don't mind an animation change, or even a slight (SLIGHT, mind you) interruption nerf, but I would be very angered if anything useful about my BTB was nerfed. As I may have mentioned earlier in this thread, nerf my stuff and I will hurt you (although Nick would probably be able to slaughter me faster than Iron man could kill the Green Lantern)
You like your OP-ness? You want to KEEP the unbalance for the Crowns you've paid? What about the future of SK? That sits like Volcanic Iron in my Hot Chocolate. And its not tasty, trust me.
I would even let my beloved Suda be reduced to always dealing 10 damage if would help the game later on. So this seems to be a difference in Morals.
And buff the Suda to the Power of the Leviathan? Do you Know how bad the Levi is?
Some excerpts with the FoV Vs. Levi...
All the math I had in my last post grew wings and flew away, so let me Use staples this time...
Leviathan
368*3, or 1104 against anything
FoV
483*4, or 1932 against neutral targets
Heck! this thing does 294*4, or 1176 against RESISTANT monsters
As for the Balances, the self fire, and fire on the charge are to balance each other out, and the swing speed and chance to REIGNITE a monster on the normal swings are equal. So in this case, you would just look at the damage and mechanics. And they say that the Typed damage gets more hits, and better range. The fire makes it Quite powerful, but the self fire balances that bit out.
Its not the Normal damage IDEA that is unbalanced, it's that The mechanics of the Normal damage weapons are absolutely horrid. So, to balance that, you'd need to change the mechanics of EVER sword, gun, and bomb, OR add something that only normal damage can do. As it stands, typed weapons can pwn, smash and obliterate any normal damage competitor.
And thats not right."
And for the FoV swings... They ARE the same, but with some tweaks, in fact, The FoV's swings are OP.
"Also, The slowness of the normal swings is balance for being able to inflict fire on every swing, and re inflict it while its still going. The damage nerf is for dealing the damage. In a single swing you can possibly deal 183+~80*4=503. Yeah. If you hit 3 different monsters and then Ran to safety, you could deal anywhere from 617 damage to 1577 damage.
and that's ONE combo.
Fact is: The mechanics of non Optimizing gear is Sup Par. And since You, and most other clones (Not saying you are a clone, lol) want too keep what they payed for, and don't want to De-Buff the Stuff you got simply because it was the best, the only other option is buffing the Rest Of The Entire Game. Which means A LOT of work, not to mention re-balancing all of the monsters, damage, and the like.
If you REALLY want to take that path, here's another excerpt, Yes, from a LD thread, doesn't make it any less relevant.
"Oh, What? Bombers cant have something They can spam? Swords have flourishes, and Gunners have antiguas... So why shouldn't they?.
How about this: Nerf the RSS, DA, FF, GF, and all those other POWER sets and lets see a Dragon go eat a bomber with a DVS, a Grey Owlite waltz through Haze bombs and shrug off Gunshots, and the Almighty God of Tanking, the Ancient Plate armor sit smack dab in the middle of the friggan battlefield and throw every sword that crosses it against a wall far away; not interrupting his suda, and simply eating all of the damage.
Lets make the ENTIRE GAME fair. Lets have DEFENSIVE sets be DEFENSIVE, not Sub-Par 'Cause they don't have the damage boosts.
Do this, and you can have actual OPTIONS, not, gunner, swordy, or bomber. Yeash!"
Yes, the above rendition is a little exaggerated... But the point is still made.
Personally, I don't care for morals that hinder development. Its just wrong to me.
"Sure, I guess I can help, but first, smash."
~Tsu
I'll address this in the categories that I see.
PVE
Honestly PvE would not be seriously hindered by damage nerfs. Consider it the difference between entering with MAX Damage bonus vs. Very high damage bonus. Things would die a little slower, but on the scope of single strikes -- instead of 8 strikes, you now need 9 to take down a slag. In this sense. IMO that isn't a dealbreaker -- skilled players shouldn't be getting hit very often, and can dish out plenty of damage with shield cancelling, charges, whatever.
tl;dr This game isn't particularly hard, and the difference between 260 and 220 won't break it.
PVP
Rommil has it spot on. But sometimes, you can't do that. The DR was slaughtering JK in about 15 seconds with a full party, and was so overpowered that even swordies were using it, with only a med CTR and no bomb damage bonus, over the faust/acheron. That's the perfect situation of when something needs to be done, and OOO reacted accordingly [whether the magnitude was justified or not, that's not for me to say].
However, I wouldn't be against subtle changes. Maybe the flourish takes 5 hits to kill, instead of 4, against no pierce defense. It's been a little while since the last time I've played lockdown, but swordsmen dominate because of 1) the ease and lower learning curve of picking up flourish speed-cancelling or faust spamming and 2) the overpowered striker shield, which only buffs swords. As of right now, it's not that gunners and bombers can't dominate. It's just that swords are easier to dominate with. If true balancing were to be attained, you'd need to look at the whole game -- the inherent balance of the weapon type [sword = damage for higher risk, gun = range for damage, bomb = area for instant firing/speed], the buffs that the shields themselves give [striker only buffs swords, for example], and then the weapon itself. A little tweak would help bombers and gunners, but I'm pretty neutral on this -- gunners and bombers can still dominate with enough skill.
tl;dr: No big changes, but small ones to help could be okay, provided that the rest of the game [classes, weapon types] are/retain their balance.
NORMAL WEAPONS
Normal weapons are intended to be a double-edged sword: they neither fail, nor excel. The appeal, then, is that where the brandish user must craft two swords to ensure normality against everything, a leviathan user only needs to craft one.
IMO the Fang and the Levi aren't the most comparable weapons -- the fang is designed to be the highest boss reward [aside from shadow lairs] and a power in itself as that, where as Levi is *the* standard 5* sword, as the calibur is the standard 2*. A better example would be Suda versus a Divine Avenger. The Divine Avenger's raw damage power exceeds the Suda's [this is cited way back from when the suda first came out, and people did damage testing], so it outdamages it against "neutral" monsters (fiends and jellies). That's an issue.
The mechanic of normal weapons isn't broken, I'd say. It's just that by the time people reach the endgame, and we all know that happens way too quickly, specializing is preferable. I have stood beside my first 5*, Wild Hunting Blade, since I made it, and I accept the challenge that it brings, but that a flourish greatly outclasses it against beasts is no surprise to me. If it were just as good against beasts, a flourish would lose it's value -- WHB is good against constructs and jellies, too.
tl;dr: Normal weapons are not meant to excel, and typed weapons ARE supposed to "pwn, smash and obliterate any normal damage competitor." The drawback is that when resistances are encountered, typed weapons suck, and normal does not fail.
Its like with the Suda Vs DA...
The DA deals more damage, and it does it FASTER. this wouldn't be such a big deal if stun was fixed and the Suda could inflict Stun on its second hit... But then the GF, it has the same speed as a DA, and gets a STRONG status similar to the Triglav. Except Both troika's are slower then the Sealed on every swing.
IMO, the Troika's are supposed to be things that WILL knock you over, so buffing the damage so that the DPS is just under the DA's DPS for Neutral seems to be a fair trade off. Nerfing the safety AND the DPS for stun/freeze on hits is not wise.
Even though the GF STILL is faster AND gets a status... =.=
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To the Other Hipster....
PvE,
I agree with you there. Not a problem, despite what some say.
PvP,
I still hold to balancing for the long run beats some people's want to keep the unbalance they have now.
I'd rather have a game where I can TANK for my team, not deal alot of damage, but stand in the middle of a large crowd, shrug off most of the attacks, and heard them into a bomber or a swordy while a gunner weakens them.
This would certainly help the Actual PvP too.
Normal Weapons,
From what I can see... the Amazing power that is earned from getting 40 Seals is put into the Fire status, and how it balances. Take that out, and you have a Elemental damage Levi, that deals ~260+260+330 on combo, and a 4 hit charge that deals almost 2k damage. Sure, some of the charges "Value" is coming from the Seals... So that would put it at about 1600 per charge. And that's neutral... still about 500 damage above the Levi.
I already did some Suda stuff above, refer to that, lol.
By the end game then, you can easily get the CR for the weapons slots, and get the Specialty weapons... By that token, all of those Normal weapons are Noob weapons, because They are outplayed in every field. Again, just by Having 2 weapons slots at the start of the game, it leads the knight to want to use two special damage weapons. And seeing how elemental guns are the most useful type ATM, and most typed swords are good against most things, it leads to getting brandishes, pulsars, antiguas, alchemers and the like getting picked over the less damage, less USEFULL normal weapons.
Not to mention arsenal stations. And anyplace that doesn't have one, unless its your first time, always has the same levels. Every time. That lowers the Value of Normal weapons to Almost Nothing, and That's not right. They were made to be useful, but as of now, aren't.
"Sure, I guess I can help, but first, smash."
~Tsu
@Tsubasa-no-me "You like your OP-ness? You want to KEEP the unbalance for the Crowns you've paid? What about the future of SK? That sits like Volcanic Iron in my Hot Chocolate. And its not tasty, trust me."
Honestly, I don't think that the unbalance is that bad. I recognize that it is an excellent weapon, but no matter what you do, there will be weapons that are better than others, and that isn't a problem. Sure, it means that a lot of people will use that weapon, but all that means is that you can set up your loadout to counteract this well. I would much rather face a team of nothing but solver coat BTB clones than a team with varied weapons. As far as your comment about the future of SK, I think you are being a bit dramatic. If all it takes to sink a game is one slightly unbalanced weapon, then that game has deeper issues anyway. In response to your question, yes I do want to keep my weapon as powerful as it is now. What is wrong with that? I spent a lot of time earning the crowns for that. If you don't like it, get some piercing resistance.
"Do you Know how bad the Levi is?"
As the proud owner of a Levi blade, I would like to submit that it's an excellent weapon when handled correctly (I know there are people that spam charge, but that's not me). There's something nice about not having to worry about what damage type you'll need in the coming level, and that peace of mind is the purpose of normal weapons. I understand that it's generally better to bring different damage types, but there are some situations where that just isn't viable (heating low level weps for example), or bringing a specialty weapon to help deal with a boss (Dread Venom Striker, Shivermist Buster, etc.) These situations are where normal weapons shine.
"FoV Vs. Levi..."
I don't personally own one, but I know what it takes to get one. If it wasn't pretty powerful, that would be a serious issue.
As far as your attacks on my morals go, the existence of powerful weapons does not jeopardize the future of a game. In addition, I only own two of the weapons which are listed here, but I would be strongly against nerfing any of them. I don't resent them for having these weapons, and I think it would be immoral to rob them of the power they have worked so hard to achieve. I recognize that you might disagree on that point, but I truly believe that those people deserve their hard-earned weapons.
Seriously, i'm a little tired of you all complaining about unbalance.
No combat is balanced, you do not treat games like they need balance, just as you do not treat war like it needs balance.
Your arguments are stupid. It's like america demanding the japanese not have planes, because they totally pwned pearl harbor with them.
Instead, they planned, and devised a way to defeat them. Seriously people, i've spent one tour in iraq and there are many... Many things i could have whined about. Instead, we outsmarted them, and we made it home the best we could.
There will alwas be a prefered method of combat, and there will always be people who use it to the best the game allows. But the way you sound like you want this to go, sounds like a BOARD GAME!!!
I should knock you the $@*! Out.
My buddy got hit by a sniper. However, if it was here, you would all be, OMGNOFAIRITOTALLYDIDNTSEEHIM, NERF NERF NERF, HAAAAAX!!!
Another lost his crew to RPG fire.
Again, you would all say, OMG TOo OP! Nerf nerf nerf!!!! Balance eet!
you all make me sick
+1 to Damien
Well said, Damien.
I respect you so much now that I know you are a soldier. Thank you for making the world safe for people like me.
*Princeberton salutes*
Canozo does have a point, there is such a thing as a player preferred pattern. For example, competitive level TF2 usually runs with standard "vanilla" loadouts. Why? Because they work and they're effective. No one complains when you give a light, very agile class a weapon capable of three shotting any other player. They work around it.
So work around it. Try bombing if swordsmen piss you off so much.
In the case of Levi vs FoV, this game is built around killing your target before it fights back, if you're a swordsmen. Haze bombs are about status infliction, not swords. This is also sort of why Gran Faust is still really good: large arcs of damage ensure tons of things get cursed.
Please try to leave moral attacks and bringing in extraneous examples and red herrings out of this thread.
What ever. I'll stand alone I guess, 'cause no one seems to understand what I mean.
Also, I was not attempting to attack you, or anyone's morals. I was stating Mine, and that I disagreed with another stand point because of such and such a thing. I THOUGHT it was a little more clear then that.
And Damian... I'm not some noob Idiot, I know that the real world is not balanced at all, but this is a game. It shouldn't be War, per say. It should be entertainment. Remember that the main game is about teamwork, And I want to balance it for that, and possibly have some positive effects on LD.
Example, Lets say the Suda was now the most powerful thing in the game... and now required almost every weapon to craft. You get invincibility frames when swinging, and the charge has the radius of a Nitrome. It has insta charge and attacks as fast as a cutter. You're saying that you'd devise a way to counter it? Well, its kinda hard to get the Suda now, so everyone that had it before are now Super-powered. Yeah, a little deviation is fine, but standing a mile high is not fitting for a MMO co-op game. The deviations should be enough that you can still win in LD using other gear, and play competitivly with your teammates in the Clockworks without them taking all the kills, and sucking all the fun out of the Game play itself.
And remember: it is a game, games do need balance. Games are not Real life.
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I guess no one in SK wants to Have balance, they just want to be the best, huh? As long as you're on top, right?
I personally find that to be utterly pointless and selfish. Yeah sure, fight fire with fire, or w/e. But then you don't get rocks, Oranges, Cake, lasers, or much of anything else. Its all just fire.
I'm gonna sign off for a bit... I hope you enjoy your "balance", Optimizers.
"What Reason do I have... to listen to you?"
~Tsu
Artifice you shut your mouth. I have every right to use any example i wish. And if that example so happens to strike a chord with you, then you might have to admit you're wrong and swallow that ego of yours.
Take those words you wrote, and put them here, addressing you. They fit just as well.
"What Reason do I have... to listen to you?"
~Tsu
Edit, Meaning, please be kinder.
How the frick can you compare this to real life war? -_-
This is a game.
Games are not as fun unbalanced.
You can never fully balance a game, but you can try to make it as balanced as much as you can.
I didn't make any suggesting to having god weps/armor. I didn't make any suggestion at all untill now.
Weapons should do damage based off of what material it is going against. Simple.
Heavy swords should NOT be allowed asi, and they should always knock down whatever they hit.
Toothpicks should NOT be hitting further than the actual sword is showing, and should never be swung like they are now.
Guns should be doing a ton of damage, unless you have metal armor. Bombs should be doing a ton of damage, regardless of armor.
We don't need balance per se, we need common sense!
I love two things in this thread:
* The original poster just tossed an idea and never came back, while everyone is throwing glass bottles at each other.
* No one here is asking for an Autogun/Blitz needle nerf. The last gun buff makes Vanaduke, the ultimate Tier3 boss, a joke. This is the only truly unbalanced weapon in the game, is nice to see this discussion isn't biased at all and is for the good of the game, right?!
Anyway, SK should keep its medieval-ish style, so its natural that swords are the main weapon on this game. /thread
@Jaroche: You're also wrong in one way.
@Rommil: I see... well, you're correct. I hadn't considered that, but it sure is true....
I guess I'll edit here a little...
If people are going to be bringing in real life examples that have zero bearing on a game, then I'm going to bring in my own example. I work with kids on a thrice-weekly basis, elementary level children. And I'm bringing what I see into this thread. Yes, I'm looking at you, Tsu, and you, Damian.
Tsu's the girl who gets in an argment over an extremely hard to defend position, and still makes semi-reasonable arguments for its cause. When I requested she stick solely to mechanics and avoid moral attacks, she tries to defend her reasons. This is called maturity. She's the one who tries to establish an already weak position, but holds steadfastly onto it. That's dedication. Dedication does not go unrewarded.
Damien is the boy who does something similarly, yet when asked to stop, lashes out. I make a remark and he jumps on my back on it. Fan-tastic. Stop trying to make this suggestion thread your own personal battleground, soldier.
Michaelb, I'm sorry for dragging your thread into this. Yes, some things need to be changed, but not to inhibit what works, but to work around what does. There's already a holy trinity of counters, Guns>Bombs>Swords, much like in any other game with any semblance of competition. Building off on my previously mentioned TF2 example, there are three main offense classes in competitive TF2: Scout, Soldier, and Demo/Medic. Soldiers have more health and firepower than a scout, and can more than enough stand their ground and clean the floor with them, even in high level play. They're a short/mid ranged class with mid range movement capability. Similarly, how the scout is built allows good scout players to weave around the powerful, but slow attacks the Demoman possesses and get in their face, the Demo's weakest point. Scouts have the best maneuverability considering health, being as quick as Demos but without the health loss. And Demomen have more firepower and short/long range maneuverability than the Soldier, making a Demo/Medic combo able to wipe the floor with Soldiers at mid range.
In TF2, competitive balance is built around mobility and firepower. In Spiral Knights, competitive balance is built around the same. However, like scouts in TF2, Skolver/Flourish Strikers are able to close distance fast and harpoon enemies mercilessly. Solution? Start bombing. They can't hurt you if you're hiding in your own personal force field.
I don't even play Lockdown, but this is just what I can infer.
There are never T1 games and if you find people willing to work together it's actually fun even if you're not optimized. I like to be a mobile shield/healer with a grintovec to keep clear.
My sole defense for not playing Lockdown is that TF2 is my sole competitive game. That and I fragged a frozen player with my Suda charge on my first and only game.
Shouldn't be a stretch to toss together a Dusker set and pick up a spare Sealed.
While I normally hate Tsu and all she stands for... I agree with her argument.
I like SK for being FAR more skill focused than other MMOs. However, good game balance contributes heavily to a skill focus.
Ideally, each piece of equipment should be considered equal to other pieces of equipment meant to fulfill the same role. The best example of this that I see is the debate between Brandishes and Sealed Swords. Regardless of whatever weapons you choose from the two lines, they will fulfill, if not excel, in what you want them to do.
However, compare Royal Jelly to Skolver, and Skolver wins easily. There should be at least a strong case for Jelly to make it a worthwhile choice over Skolver. As of now, the only time I see Jelly armor in competitive Lockdown are the RARE Shock-Immune Ice Queen sets (Gives full immunity to Shock, Freeze, and Stun), which are still situational. Likewise when you compare Skelly to Snarby. It doesn't need to be as simple as armor/health boosts though. Look at the Magic set vs Vog. Magic set has a variety of defenses and status resistances that make it worthwhile over Vog (in some cases). I see many Magic set users, compared to Jelly and Skelly at least.
EDIT** BTW Arctifice, a Recon with Stagger and/or VT can hold off a point against an infinite amount of Skolver Strikers... until they pull out their Polarises. A lot of times, people will just get about 4 of their friends together and flood a point in Pulsar shots at the mere sight of a potential bomber.
I left something out you reminded me of Trae.
Pulsar.
TF2 has its own version. It's called stickybomb spam. Welp, just counter with swordsmen of your own, I suppose.....
Did I just read Hammer = OP?
IT'S FREAKIN' UNDERPOWERED IN PVP GOD DAMN
definately outclassed by DA/GF/suda/the-5*-pvp-frost-line-of-troika-duh
I had no clue you hated me, Trae... Go figure ^-^
I personally don't see a downside to Making each Gear a Hard choice to choose between. Not like they are all the same, but that they are All ABOUT equal... Or they should be...
And Yeah, Skolvers will target just about any target... Why? BECAUSE they can slaughter them. I wound Up on a team with 2 RSS on it, and me with my half heated ISB. When alone, I can usually take down most of a skolver's Hp, by kiting them and scaring them to DEATH with shock. And one they are shocked, You can time it to smack them as the get stopped again.
But when in a group, I'm always hunted down by 3/4ths of the opposing force, because they don't like being shocked suddenly from far away. I should be able to hold my own against most of them bombing, but usually, if they're good, they just FF cancel spam and I die. Not balanced. At all.
I do understand the arguments made above. I would like to think that normal weapons need a small bump, now that we have arsenal stations. Was a time, that it made good clean sense to take a normal damage weapon (well, levi anyways) through a nefarious tier, especially as if you only had two slots.
But the rise of arsenal stations to start every level....it makes less and less sense.
edit: tsu~i'm for balance. all for it. bring everything up to a par. but i disdain they'll do it by bait and switching those who have spent an eternity or a fortune to get what their heart's desired.
I again implore you to know, i come at this from the perspective of someone who has not purchased and asi vh weapons or multiple UVd skolver gear. So i'm arguing to not nerf other people's weapons. I'm perfectly happy with bringing up the weaker weapons.
I'd rather have them mess around with the weapons, providing different dynamics for PVP, than owning the dominant weapon with shiny UV's. Not that I necessarily mind the current LD, but new is always interesting.
Someone mentioned blitz being OP. I mostly gun FSC, and I rarely take out my alchemer anymore as blitz just melts zombies. It is crazy overpowered.
Overpowered if you HIT your target maybe. If you miss, consider yourself fscked. If you're surrounded, consider yourself fscked. If you're jumped from below, you're fscked. All of that at once?
Fscked.
Another idea I forgot to mention: Making the Striker Dash preserve your combo. For example, suppose you hit once, then turned around and dashed. If you attacked after you dashed, it'd be the second hit of the combo. Could provide a new tactic with the Hammer (faking out people by dashing after dashing) while stopping the ever-so-detested FF-dash-FF, unless you can aim. Also, the inability to switch weapons mid-dash would probably work with that.
EDIT: As for the Trollaris... all I can say for a bomber is, break out the shards. That's your only chance. Unless you brought a sidearm of your own... a charged Magma Driver will be very funny in that particular situation.
Yep, I agree with you there... Gunners start freaking out after I shoot them with an ISB shard... There was one fellow in the furnace I think, that was holding off the middle path to the water. Shoot a shard from where he couldn't see, and I ran straight in.
Lol I have a feeling this is about Lockdown?
Edit: oh you said it was nvm. Umm, they can't change the game specifically for Lockdown since it isn't important BUT]
they CAN nerf swordsman just for fun.