I'm a member of a very small guild. At any given time we have <10 active members. I like it this way. I like the idea of the new Guild Hall update, even saving up for the super expensive expansions and whatnot is fine, but the upkeep costs make it simply impossible for us to get to the shiny features. To prevent abuse, you could make all the amenities (including AH and vendor access) available to guild members only, so visitors can't just stop in for a spam free environment, if that's what you're going for. A tiered scale (<25, 25-50, 50-100 guild members, etc) with increasing upkeep costs for each tier would greatly increase the ability of smaller guilds to enjoy the cool new content.
Scale Guild Hall upkeep to guild size.
Mié, 11/14/2012 - 21:32
Jue, 11/15/2012 - 15:51
#2
I see.
What Psychodestroyer says about the visitors is true--you can choose whether or not to make your guild public.
As for the guild upkeep, I do agree on that thought; perhaps you'd like to add it to the collection of ideas on this thread?
Happy reading!
~M
They're EVERYWHERE!!!!
-Anonymous Knight on Severage's and Mwahahaha's forum activity
Jue, 11/15/2012 - 15:57
#3
...
Economically speaking, I don't mind that people spend more crowns on a smaller Guild Hall.
Of course, fairly speaking, it doesn't make much sense that you would. The costs were debated in my first thread; something that wouldn't be too unfair for small guilds, and something that wouldn't be super easy for large guilds.
The upkeep thing was OOO's idea though, so we didn't foresee this happening. Scaled upkeep prices based on members are like taxes based on gross income.
I'd welcome the idea, as M said, on the new thread which is meant to condense all these little suggestions.
~Sev
Jue, 11/15/2012 - 23:35
#4
Upkeep
I support this thread, I can't keep my 10-person roleplay group running while sinking 50k a week.
Jue, 11/15/2012 - 23:54
#5
Isn't the whole point taht
Isn't the whole point taht larger guids with more people can afford to do more and make their GHs larger, while smaller guilds w/ fewer people...have smaller GHs w/ fewer rooms?
Seems like the logical path to me. Are you just asking for a maxed GH with less upkeep because you have less people to pay? That's hardly fair; that means that the larger guilds with the same expansions have to pay more purely because they have more people. No, how about you just recruit more people to help pay, or be happy with a smaller GH due to lower funding.
If that was the case, then rich players would just ditch their large guilds and make their own wee mini-guilds with max'd GHs for quarter the upkeep.
Not to mention that the upkeep is meant to be a cr sink that eats a lot of cr...
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 00:42
#6
Upkeep is a pathetic mechanic
Upkeep is a pathetic mechanic to begin with, let alone for small Guilds. I play F2P and one-time purchase MMOs because I have a life outside of my computer screen and play other games. I play MMOs like this to get AWAY from constantly feeding money into a single game, whether that money be real for subscriptions or virtual for "upkeep". You shouldn't be locked out of features like Guild Hall expansion just because you don't play Spiral Knights 24/7.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 00:56
#7
"You shouldn't be locked out of features like Guild Hall expansion just because you don't play Spiral Knights 24/7."
I DO believe you aren't supposed to be the only member of your guild.
If a guild can't manage itself properly, then it has no business being a guild. It doesn't lock out anybody from anything, it just takes time, patience, and a sense of logic concerning how to pace a budget.
Already my GL and I are discussing with other trustworthy guild members how to better manage our guild. It's management skills like these a guild needs and teaches you to have that make having them warranted.
Before, you could just make a guild willy nilly and do whatever snoop you wanted with it. Now, you can do that, but it's going to be harder, which I believe is better, so we don't get a lot of useless guilds from people who just wanted to make one for the heck of it.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:04
#8
Pathetic mechanic? See all
Pathetic mechanic? See all those ragethreads about CE prices, and all that time you spend grinding to pay for 9k ce? Well upkeep is the answer to that. We need cr sinks to keep ce prices down.
Upkeep really isn't that unreasonable. For a smaller guild, you should be able to get enough expansions for...say 60~80k upkeep? That's ten Vana runs a week. Ten. Between...how many people? If you have even ten active guild members, all you need to do is get 2/3 Vana runs going at once and donate all the cr towards the GH. Sorted.
That's with only ten active members dedicating less than an hour a week to pay upkeep; that's incredibly easy for a small guild to afford.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:08
#9
"If a guild can't manage
"If a guild can't manage itself properly, then it has no business being a guild."
"which I believe is better, so we don't get a lot of useless guilds from people who just wanted to make one for the heck of it."
Stop it. That elitist mentality makes you look like a child. If someone is able to have a guild for a small group of friends, or hell, even for themselves alone, it is absolutely NOT hurting anyone else in the game, nor would it hurt anyone else for said guild to have access to all of the game's features. (You probably defend on-disc DLC too, huh?) No player's game is going to be ruined if me and my siblings and friends can go into our guild hall to place furniture and talk to private merchants.
You need to lose the fanboy goggles and stop making excuses for sleazy decisions from the developers. If these things were actual PERKS that give you some advantage over other players it would be acceptable to make people pay extra for it, but it doesn't. You just get the convenience of personal merchants and the fun of 100% cosmetic pieces of furniture that already cost crowns to begin with. Again, I have a life outside of my computer. I have other games to play. I do not and will not play a single game for months on end, and it is pathetic that I lose access to game features because of it. This is not debatable.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:17
#10
If these things were actual
If these things were actual PERKS that give you some advantage over other players it would be acceptable to make people pay extra for it, but it doesn't.
You need to remove your pay-to-win goggles and think about everyone, including players who can't afford bad[gear] equipment. Oh, wait...
Actually, MMOs go by the opposite standard. Stat based gear that affects gameplay is something that everyone should have access to, to create balance. But additional features such as fashions, gimmicks or additional cosmetic features are always far more expensive because they're not neccessary. They create gold sinks and allow end-game players something to aim towards past gear.
Why should a small guild of friends have a massive, full sized guild hall with all amenities? It's just a guild for friends that you had access to before GH came out; what do you need 20 rooms and every NPC in Haven for? The large guilds are maxing out GHs and are catering to visitors as well.
I do not and will not play a single game for months on end, and it is pathetic that I lose access to game features because of it. This is not debatable.
Incredibly reasonable for even small guilds to afford relative amounts of expansions.
Note especially: "less than an hour a week"
It's entirely your fault if you want to max off your GH with only a few players willing to contribute. Do you also expect to have every fashion in the game and all the best accessories and UVs? Because you need to farm cr to get them too; what makes you more deserving of GH updates (a free update that you get anyway) than any other non-essential part of the game that you'd otherwise have to buy?
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:21
#11
"But additional features such
"But additional features such as fashions, gimmicks or additional cosmetic features are always far more expensive because they're not neccessary."
As noble as it may be to not give people the option of paying for advantages, what hard-working adult really wants to pay money for cosmetic things that aren't even permanent?
That's like buying a new coat just for someone to come take it away from you in a month. If it costed a large amount of Crowns for one-time expansions it would be a moot point, but it's upkeep. They want me to either play, as you said, every single week, or have a large guild to pour money into the treasury.
"what do you need 20 rooms and every NPC in Haven for?"
What do the developers need to limit furniture pieces and variants to those "20 rooms" for? Having a small Guild Hall isn't the issue. The issue is limiting the features of a smaller Guild Hall, like leaving you with nothing to purchase but a chair, a table and a plant.
And the fact is nobody needs NPCs in a private guild hall, but again, inversely, it doesn't HURT anything either. They are NPCs. They are not live humans sitting at a computer 24/7 to complete virtual item transactions, they're lines of code that do something if you press certain buttons in a dialogue window.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:24
#12
"Do you also expect to have
"Do you also expect to have every fashion in the game and all the best accessories and UVs?"
No, because when I buy/unlock/find those, I get to keep them. There's no "upkeep" for accessories or UVs. They are a goal that you can work up to and eventually achieve, not something that will disappear just because you spent a certain amount of time away from the game.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:27
#13
"Stop it. That elitist mentality makes you look like a child."
I'd pull out the 'its so cute when you think you know what you're talking about' pic again, but I've used it too many times already.
In other words, I have literally nothing to be 'elitist' about, considering talking things over logically with another player over management details is hardly elitist.
"If someone is able to have a guild for a small group of friends, or hell, even for themselves alone, it is absolutely NOT hurting anyone else in the game, nor would it hurt anyone else for said guild to have access to all of the game's features."
Who said anything about guild stuff being a feature? At the most, the Training Hall is, at that can easily be accessed via another guild. Having your own 'private Haven' is decidedly NOT a feature, neither is anything else in the guldhalls.
"(You probably defend on-disc DLC too, huh?)"
"You need to lose the fanboy goggles and stop making excuses for sleazy decisions from the developers."
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/296/545/f98.png
"If these things were actual PERKS that give you some advantage over other players it would be acceptable to make people pay extra for it, but it doesn't."
Um, yes it does. Like you said yourself 'private merchants'. AKA no outside chat clutter or other such annoyances...?
"Again, I have a life outside of my computer."
I like it how you keep saying that like someone's accusing you otherwise.
"I do not and will not play a single game for months on end"
Ah-huh, dat's coo.
"and it is pathetic that I lose access to game features because of it."
I believe I covered the fact that this isn't a feature already.
"This is not debatable."
...Your failure in logic ceases to amaze.
It's just CROWNS, foo! Nobody's asking you to pay $ for any of this, nobody's telling you to play X amount of days with x amount of hours, nobody is asking you to do ANYTHING except play a game!
So you can't unlock every single thing inside a guildhall, big fiery whoop. Nobody says you have to; if you can't afford it, guess what? You can't afford it! Then you'll just have to miss out on all the neat little extras the people who CAN afford it get to have.
Myself not being one of them, 'case you didn't get the message.
'Oh noes, I'll never get a cool costume 'cause I have to spend time getting cr to actually get accessories and stuff.' Well, DUH. You want everything in the game to be handed to you on a silver platter? What's the point of even PLAYING then?
IRL, you want a car, you save up for one. You want a house, you go out and work and save for one. You want a new shiny game console, you work towards saving to get one. If you don't, you don't. Simple. You can't just sit there and pout like a spoiled brat until someone hands you one, 'cause then you're just being ridiculous.
You don't want to work towards getting something totally within reach? That's no-one's problem but your own.
And before you try and argue, it IS totally within reach.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:37
#14
The main problem is the
The main problem is the inflexible, linear upgrade path OOO implemented. The room contents themselves are one-off purchases, while the empty rooms cost you upkeep, and some room contents are locked until you have opened up more empty rooms.
Room contents most wanted are hidden behind a lot of empty rooms.
If only room contents don't have to be unlocked, the empty rooms have a lower upkeep, and some room contents cost upkeep as well. This will provide more flexibility, scale better, and smaller guilds can open up less empty rooms, and purchase the room contents they most wanted.
e.g. 1st floor both wings, with guild training hall, some beds, chairs and tables. They will pay upkeep for the wings (lower than what it is now) and the guild training hall (which is zero currently).
While rich guilds can still spend as much as they want and make an epic guild hall.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:39
#15
As noble as it may be to not
As noble as it may be to not give people the option of paying for advantages, what hard-working adult really wants to pay money for cosmetic things that aren't even permanent?
You don't live out in the world much, do you?
Never heard of expensive 5* restaurants? Fancy clothing stores? Wedding clothing?
There's more than countless occasions where modern humans, irl, will pay at a premium for useless goods, perm or otherwise, over practical goods. MMOs thrive on that nature, and that's how they make a heavy portion of their income; people buying fashions and accessories. And in game, it now allows us a juicy cr sink~
S'not my fault your guild can't afford a high upkeep GH. Recruit more people, get your people donating more, or join a larger guild. But you can't, by nature, have a "small guild, just for friends" and expect it to compete with the largest and most competitive guilds in the game. Gotta make a choice.
S'like askin' why "Old Pops" Corner Shop doesn't compete with ASDA.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:49
#16
Oh boy, the rage is strong in
Oh boy, the rage is strong in this one. Complete with My Little Bandwagon reaction images as well. Sit down and listen well, son.
"considering talking things over logically with another player over management details is hardly elitist."
You're right. Pretending that guilds are some kind of privilege that doesn't deserve to be accessed by players who don't devote their life to it is what makes you an elitist.
"Who said anything about guild stuff being a feature?"
For someone who feigns being dumbfounded by another's imaginary lack of understanding you sure to lack a fundamental comprehension of what a "feature" is.
Would you prefer I call it a "mechanic" instead? Because it wouldn't change my argument. Guilds are a part of the game. That's all it takes. My words remain completely true.
"http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/296/545/f98.png"
Dodged quite expertly, and managed to be "trendy" while you're at it with popular mediocrity thrown into a crummy reaction image. Got anymore memes to post in place of arguments you can't make because my facts are impossible to refute?
"AKA no outside chat clutter or other such annoyances...?"
Now explain to the class how a lack of chat clutter gives you an advantage over other players.
"I like it how you keep saying that like someone's accusing you otherwise."
I repeat it because people clearly fail to understand it. Acting like someone should have to continually sink time into a game is inadvertently "accusing" otherwise, because nobody with a life outside of their computer pays subscriptions or plays MMOs on a constant basis.
[Please refrain from personal attacks, thank you!]
"It's just CROWNS, foo! Nobody's asking you to pay $ for any of this, nobody's telling you to play X amount of days with x amount of hours, nobody is asking you to do ANYTHING except play a game!"
12-25K Crowns on a regular basis, son. That means either sinking real money into Energy to trade for Crowns or playing "x amount of days with x amount of hours" in order to farm enough to keep the expansions up.
"Nobody says you have to; if you can't afford it, guess what? You can't afford it! Then you'll just have to miss out on all the neat little extras the people who CAN afford it get to have."
Hahahahahahahahaha. This coming from the person denying accusations of elitism.
"You want everything in the game to be handed to you on a silver platter?"
I'm fine with farming to pay for something, it's the fact that you're forced to pay for it constantly, meaning devoting all your time to one game, meaning not having a life outside of Spiral Knights unless your Guild is huge.
And with that, you are done. Your words are worthless and I have no reason to read the rest of your post or any of your future posts. Feel free to make them as long and detailed as you wish, however. I'm sure somebody might read them, but again. This is not a debate. I am simply stating facts. Therefore I have no reason to take anything else you have to say into consideration.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:51
#17
"As noble as it may be to not give people the option of paying for advantages, what hard-working adult really wants to pay money for cosmetic things that aren't even permanent?"
"They are a goal that you can work up to and eventually achieve, not something that will disappear just because you spent a certain amount of time away"
Oh, you mean like rent?
Owait...
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 01:56
#18
"You don't live out in the
"You don't live out in the world much, do you?"
Nice try.
"MMOs thrive on that nature, and that's how they make a heavy portion of their income; people buying fashions and accessories."
And again, this isn't about me not wanting to buy things with currency of a real or virtual nature. This is about a game requiring constant feeding of said currency rather than giving you access to what is rightfully yours after you pay for it. I'd happily sink dozens of thousands of crowns into the Guild Hall expansions if they didn't disappear when I stop playing. You and the other fanboy could use some reading comprehension skills.
"Never heard of expensive 5* restaurants? Fancy clothing stores? Wedding clothing?"
All of which are considerably more important than virtual clothes in a game.
"But you can't, by nature, have a "small guild, just for friends" and expect it to compete with the largest and most competitive guilds in the game."
There... IS no competition, son. Guilds do not compete in this game. They simply exist for friends to gather together.
Being able to expand, place cosmetic furniture and talk to private NPCs will not give anyone any advantage over others. You seem to have a clear understanding of this yet actually have the idiocy to claim that small guilds can't "compete" with larger guilds.
"S'like askin' why "Old Pops" Corner Shop doesn't compete with ASDA."
Nnno, it's not. You're very bad at analogies.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 02:00
#19
"Oh, you mean like
"Oh, you mean like rent?
Owait..."
Clearly you're not an adult if you think an apartment or house is "cosmetic," let alone comparable to the same thing in a video game. Cars require you to fill the gas tank to keep driving, but I've yet to play a sandbox game that makes your car stop running after ten minutes of driving unless you sink money into it. That's because they are video games, not real life.
Though it's amusing to see a third fanboy spring up.
Luckily I'm no stranger to this sort of behavior. Criticizing bad decisions in MMOs always acts like a magnet to frothing [cog]-kissers and fanboys who'll do and say anything to defend their precious company.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 02:09
#20
"Complete with My Little
"Complete with My Little Bandwagon reaction images as well."
Watch out, we have a bad[cog] critic here.
"Pretending that guilds are some kind of privilege that doesn't deserve to be accessed by players who don't devote their life to it is what makes you an elitist."
Now, did I say that or did you? Of course you did, you're too dense to realize that if you want something you're going to have do work for it. 'devoting your life to' was a gross exaggeration made by you. It doesn't take 20 years.
"Guilds are a part of the game. That's all it takes. My words remain completely true."
'Completion' of the game does not require guild membership.
Your argument is invalid.
"Got anymore memes to post in place of arguments you can't make because my facts are impossible to refute?"
No you baka, that was serious. I had no idea what the Vog you were on about.
"Now explain to the class how a lack of chat clutter gives you an advantage over other players."
Easy miss, less things for your eyes to have to look at. PEACE AND DIGITAL QUIET.
"because nobody with a life outside of their computer pays subscriptions or plays MMOs on a constant basis."
Like I said before, you shouldn't be the only person in a guild. If the guild can't manage itself without you, then it can't be a very good guild, can it? It's not even very difficult, constant member donations to the pool pay for upkeep, not your imaginary 'devotion energy'.
"And once again, no argument yet too proud not to reply"
/Eyeroll If I was 'too proud to reply' I simply wouldn't have selected that phrase to reply to. I was pointing out the fact that you seem to take everything in a personal way. Like I said, guild? More than just one person?
" That means either sinking real money into Energy to trade for Crowns or playing "x amount of days with x amount of hours""
Ah, no. Just co-operation from your very, very good guild members considering you should have been smart enough to recruit them instead of trying to build a kickass treehut by yourself.
"This coming from the person denying accusations of elitism."
Yeah, now you're just showcasing your inability to read. "Myself not being one of them, 'case you didn't get the message." following the line directly after.
"Your words are worthless and I have no reason to read the rest of your post or any of your future posts. "
"I am simply stating facts."
...Irony.
Pure, simple, irony.
"All of which are considerably more important than virtual clothes in a game."
So you're whining like a spoiled rich brat about stuff like it why...?
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 02:11
#21
tl;dr
tl;dr
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 02:13
#22
Dodged quite expertly, and managed to be "trendy" while you're at it with popular mediocrity thrown into a crummy acronym. Got any more to post in place of arguments you can't make because my facts are impossible to refute?
:P
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 02:18
#23
This is about a game
This is about a game requiring constant feeding of said currency rather than giving you access to what is rightfully yours after you pay for it.
Plenty of examples of things that require perpetual payment. My electricity, for one. I pay for it, but if I stop living in the flat and go somewhere else for a month, and stop paying...they'll stop giving me it. Internet bills, too.
And yes, the game does need cr sinks. Do you have any idea how many cr were spent in the first hour of GH updates? My guild alone could afford to max off absolutely everything without even worrying about leftover cash. MMOs have a natural habit of inflating beyond control; one-time payments are simply not enough to keep cr in check when any person in the game can take half an hour to get 10k back from Vana. Upkeep is the best way to keep a cr sink, as it keeps big guilds like mine spending a heapload of their surplus cr.
Like I said; small guilds like yours can still afford upgrades. Doesn't take much.
All of which are considerably more important than virtual clothes in a game.
You think? I think everyething i listed is absolutely unimportant. Why eat at an expensive 5* restaurant when I could get the same food for a tenth the price at my local butchers? Playing a game though, money naturally builds up in a way that it does not irl; why not put it towards something that affects my group of people around me? It's really in the eye of the beholder what's "more important", but what can be stated with certainty is that it is non-essential, and therefore more likely to cost more. As is the way Humans are; the bare essentials are cheaper. Flashy, fancy and cosmetic are more expensive.
There... IS no competition, son.
You're not my father, don't call me son.
And don't take the word so literally. You get small guilds that are "just" for friends and small runs together. Then you get guilds that hold the more influential and experienced players in the game and make an effort to stay alive and large. They compete with smaller guilds for population. They also compete in GvG and for the rare armour/weapon UVs. Guilds compete plenty in this game. Just because small guilds willingly take themselves out of it and keep to the chill side doesn't mean that it's not there.
Nnno, it's not. You're very bad at analogies.
Yyyes, it is. Exactly, in fact. Old Pops; known for the great customer service, have a good rappor with the teller and you know exactly what you want and get. The small guild that's just for friends and group runs; you know everyone very well and get along together.
But don't go expecting to be able to pay 400k rent weekly~
Gotta say though; still just sounds like you're whining because your small guild can't afford expensive upgrades. Tell me; have you ever complained about the CE price skyrocketting from 4k to 9k?
Or do you support inflation? Is that why you oppose upkeep? Because you support the most destructive force in any MMO?
Go around calling everyone fanboys all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you just sound bitter and whiney. You don't need to be a fanboy to know that sinking inflation is absolutely vital for MMOs, and SK is no exception; there is a vast surplus of cr that needs to be burnt through right now, and GH has done a great job at knocking that down a few pegs~
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 03:06
#24
...
Oi.
Sounds to me like someone made a new account just to troll the boards with.
Darkbrady brings up a very persuasive point, though, that for some reason I hadn't thought of...
If you can't live within your means (Like renting a 5* hotel while on foodstamps in real life), then you shouldn't be living there.
That changes the perspective...I would have to agree. It gives you something to work toward.
If you like having 5 people in your guild, then by all means, have 5 people in your guild, but don't complain about not having a mega-guild hall when you yourself have restricted the amount of people in it.
~Sev
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 06:29
#25
Just a reminder of the forum
Just a reminder of the forum rules:
Personal attacks are not allowed - Debate the ideas and do not insult the person.
Please filter your language to avoid swearing.
Thank you!
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 07:23
#26
^
d3rp.
when i say that a mod/gm commented on, i got my hopes up.
and i started reading, i was like "yea. this GMs comment is about the suggestion. nice!"
then i read mrRights comment and i started hoping ppl would brush that off. the farther i got, the worst!
it was just a mod comment about personal attacks.
way to go guys D:
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 11:35
#28
Well don't worry, kids. I
Well don't worry, kids. I have nothing more to say after this post so long as this community is made up exclusively of fanboys incapable of accepting flaws in their precious company or game. So long as this place lacks any shred of maturity I have no intention of saying anything more. I've already put the facts out there and as usual, they will be ignored because I'm not sucking up to a company.
Get mad at me for my harsh words all you want but the fact is I made a simple comment directed at nobody and all of you got offended and turned that into a big ordeal because it's just too hard for you to handle criticism of a company that doesn't even care about you as much as they care about your wallet. You lot simply can't sleep at night knowing there's someone out there who doesn't want to bend over and accept sleazy practices.
(Again, no different from people who defend on-disc DLC and western-outsourced trash like DmC and LP3. It's a shameful thing for a company to do, and I love Capcom, but as an adult I'm willing to accept and recognize flaws in a company I like.)
Well have fun, everyone. I'll go ahead and stick to online games like SDGO and Monster Hunter, games which actually reward you for playing rather than making you rent game mechanics.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 12:15
#29
I love that every forum troll
I love that every forum troll on SK inevitably starts referring to folk as "kids". This seems to come up more and more when you start out-logic-ing them. Oh, how I wish that was a word...
tl;dr, Mr; you lost my interest when you start getting the flames going.
Wait, started? Hell, you had that goin' already. Lost interest when I realised that you're doing nothing else in this discussion to actually be productive~
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 12:47
#30
breaking the game, one feature at a time
I'll just mention an obvious problem: if people constantly leave/join a guild, how would you determine the upkeep?
It's time consuming and annoying, but abusable nonetheless.
Who's the kid that cant see flaws now?
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 13:13
#31
@Darkbrady
"Outreasoning" is the word you're looking for, I believe. ;)
Mr-Right obviously has a pride problem. His comments sound a lot like mine when I think more highly of myself than I ought. Mr-Right, open your mind to the possibility of being Mr-Wrong, and you will find yourself in much more productive discussions.
@Little-Juances: try not to taunt. ;)
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 14:02
#32
Bye bye~~
Beats me why he came her in the first place tbh, if he was just going to moan and whine like the kids he so calls us.
Anyway, where were we?
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 14:21
#33
...........
"the fact is I made a simple comment directed at nobody and all of you got offended and turned that into a big ordeal"
This. I'd seriously like to know how anything he initially said was so offensive & insulting, that it was exponentially more difficult to simply ignore him than it was to tear him down & write off anything he said as "trolling" and/or "flame-baiting" because he doesn't support "constantly pouring virtual currency into a black hole". >.>
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 14:28
#34
"Upkeep is a pathetic mechanic to begin with, let alone for small Guilds."
We began by arguing against this point. Note how Dark and my posts don't have any insults to begin with.
"You need to lose the fanboy goggles and stop making excuses for sleazy decisions from the developers."
"gain, I have a life outside of my computer. I have other games to play. I do not and will not play a single game for months on end, and it is pathetic that I lose access to game features because of it. This is not debatable."
This followed.
I don't think I should detail what followed.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 14:31
#35
@Swordstalker
"Upkeep is a pathetic mechanic to begin with, let alone for small Guilds."
-That's a very degrading way to put it. This was his first "simple" comment directed at nobody; post #6.
"Stop it. That elitist mentality makes you look like a child..."
-Rude and degrading; post #9
"You need to lose the fanboy goggles and stop making excuses for sleazy decisions from the developers."
-More degradation; post #9
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Go read through his comments again; they're very offensive and insulting. Don't get me wrong; I understand where he's coming from. Personally, I'd almost rather pay a large upfront cost and be done with it than pay weekly upkeep. Mr-Right just had a very inconsiderate and egotistical way of expressing his opinions.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 14:36
#36
So...
...you expect Spiral HQ to give you a big plot of land in Haven with no cost for just ten people?
Spiral HQ provides you for free a reunion space, where you can talk things privately. You can even put your 10 beds in the quite big hall you are given for free, decorate it with some tables, etc. Why do you need more?
More rooms, more services, more "more" is given to bigger guilds at a price they can technically afford. For example, the central 2F war room: Once you have purchased your 2nd floor, you have quite the building already, and the initial room serves more as a reception. The war room then provides you of a professional looking space to talk your matters. Meanwhile, you already have access to Alchemy services, direct access to Auctions and Bechamel's dressing room. Once you are on the middle road you get access to Krogmo space, because your Guild is now bigger and you may be 99% for sure to have some PvP loving people - as 10 people most likely will play together just for the PvE aspect of the game.
I suggest you go with your ten friends to your "small" Guild Hall. Purchase then a few beds, some tables, etc. They don't require upkeep. Then decorate together, and see how much of a difference it makes - it will most likely put a smile on your face.
Then, think about if you still need this.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 18:01
#37
And then he leaves without
And then he leaves without reading or replying to the final arguments XD
That's what I do when people start attacking me about Christianity :P Jokes. I do it because I don't like debating over a topic that has been debated a zillion times in the past.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 20:52
#38
oh well
Mr. Right, i dont think your wrong. Because of this update, me as a free to play player will be seriously slowed down because of this Crown sink. The whole idea of guilds being able to be laid back and just focusing on having fun regardless of the time you spent playing the game is gone. Ill have to make a big decision now which i wont like at all. All i hope is that later after im done playing this game, i hope i enjoyed the social aspect of it cause thats what i feel is being destroyed with this update. Their indirectly making us choose between our friends or the crowns we farm up. Anyway, do not reply to this thread nor their responses to any arguminative threads they might create in response to mine. If you do, it will just waste ur time cause in the end both of our minds are made up. They think three rings is right the way they create player interaction with game features and we think there wrong. In the end neither party has any administrative say in how three rings programs spiral knights. So wether we find who is wrong or right at the end, the results wont have any changes towards the game. All i can say in defense of three rings is that they have a Contract with sega which could or is influencing all their ideas. So blamming three rings for this is not entirerly true. Also, spiral knights is a good game in gameplay wise. If u can ignore these sidetrack additions and focus on the main core aspect of the game which is pve, then i think ull enjoy the game like i am. well have fun in anygame you decide to play, cause games are their for your enjoyment, not as a tool to enslave you.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 21:26
#39
me as a free to play player
me as a free to play player will be seriously slowed down because of this Crown sink.
I love how the introduction of optional, non-essential stuff is suddenly slowing F2Ps down. Before the GH update everyone got along just fine, no one was "slowed down" or hindered because they couldn't buy GH upgrades. Now that they're an option that you can't afford, suddenly there's a problem? You're no worse off than you were before the update.
Some people, honestly...
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 21:43
#40
I'm actually okay with more
I'm actually okay with more rooms being available per room. What I don't like is that not all the furniture is available. I think it's silly that we can't just buy whatever we want for furniture and make that available to everyone, no matter the guild hall. I think the guild training hall is silly. I was expecting something much cooler than that. Maybe if they do something more in the future with it I'll be more interested. But as of now... no. I don't see our guild getting anything more than a second floor. But i don't know... we'll see. For us it depends on what all everyone in the guild wants and how much people would contribute.
Vie, 11/16/2012 - 21:45
#41
I think the guild training
I think the guild training hall is silly. I was expecting something much cooler than that.
Am with you there. Don't get me wrong, it's cool that it has the punching bags, which are unique in the game, but otherwise I was pretty underwhelmed with the GTH.
Sáb, 11/17/2012 - 02:23
#42
@Blandaxt
Games are there for your enjoyment, not as a tool to enslave you.
Words of wisdom :3
You've come far, young padawan.
Not bad, IMO, but I can't be too sure. I don't know enough about guilds to make any proper judgement.
In any case, why can't you just restrict your guild from the public?