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Lets Talk - Underused Weapons and Shields

9 replies [Last post]
Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:10
Vanguard-Xelon's picture
Vanguard-Xelon

Alright so as we all know there are items which you can tell a new player to go for, what is good, what is "bad" and what you should consider picking up
however there are just weapons and items that we need to bring more "attention" too and reconsider how we could use them or what is good about having them, despite not being as popular as say the Owlite shield or the Brandish line

Heater shield - I don't get it, I honestly don't know why more people don't use this. sure when confronting the 2 ice themed bosses (Ice queen and Maulos) they aren't Ice/Elemental but it comes from the defender line, making it quite easy to upgrade into and make as a 5* shield for newer players, elemental is the most common source of damage from I have seen (Mechs and Gremlins just appear everywhere)

Cold iron Vanquisher - now this I get a little, personally I like it because it looks cool. but still, same argument as the heater shield, it is easy for newer players to build into who want a weapon that's fancier than the leviathan but may not be able to get weapons other than the calibur gear your given

Driver lines - specifically the nova driver and magma driver, I have seen a few hail and Storm Drivers and a few players have the umbra driver. I understand, why have a 2/3 shot shadow/elemental weapon when you can have a 6 shot, or why take the status inflicting ones when the bombs are easier to land status afflictions with. but still these are nice weapons and I have seen a few people using the reflections to do some pretty clever things

Volcanic pepperbox - Starting to see a normal damage thing hear, but still normal damage is very good for players who cant afford to get a weapon for every situation. and it inflicts the fire status, which is ok. I get its blitz or riot (and a few people who like the plague needle) but still overlooking this weapon makes little to no sense just because blitz is great

Shard bombs - Other than being difficult to use, oddly specific in some cases and- okay yeah moving on. (but hey if you have some nice things to say about 'em, go right ahead)

Irontech destroyer - a blast bomb line that inflicts stun and like 0.01% of people use it? (literally, I have never seen a person use it im just not saying 0 incase someone is a huge fan). but why don't people use this? I get if you want damage take nitronome and if you want stun take haze bomb (which I think you can only get from pvp anyway) but hey why does no one ever give this a chane

I get people may have brought up these before but I want to know, what makes you love them alone or share your hate for them? (other than "this does more damage" or "this Is just outright better")

SIDENOTE - Cobalt gear - why do we give this to new knights when the first thing anyone says to them is "get a wolver coat or a magic cloak"? also that free shadow set nobody bothers with

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:30
#1
Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
related posts but I am too lazy to post my own opinion so...

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/58736
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/83972

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:42
#2
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
Heater shield is outclassed

Heater shield is outclassed by Omega Ward (but is a good non event shield for ele/freeze)

CIV is a safe weapon for taking out Howlitzers and for dealing good damage to deadnaughts. It is outclassed by a UVed Leviathan blade, and FOV. Thanks to Max damage armor sets why get any weapon that has a natural boost?

Drivers are dead to Autotarget players, if you turn off auto target you can deal incredible charge attack damage. (aim it right and all 4 ricochet bullets spawn inside the enemy, inflicting status and damage)
Thanks to ricochets the Hail driver breaks its own freeze.

Volcanic pepperbox is currently the best autogun for dealing damage to Slime and Construct monsters and like the other two lines it has great charge flinch rate (enough to make a Lumber flinch) and the Charge deals knockback which is useful.

Shards are random but have an excellent flinch rate and a great charge time.

Irontech is a mix of defensive and offensive bomb, the damage and status it deals is greater than staggerstorm but it has a lower chance of dealing that status. Plus the 4star bomb has a larger radius than its brother blast bombs.

The Cobalt and Skelly lines are underappreciated, Cobalt gear can help your through the first two token bosses and Dead skelly is the only non shadow lair shadow/freeze resist armor.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 21:22
#3
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
:/

Heater shield-I may have taken this shield if I wasn't trolled to get the aegis, however, it really wasn't much of a loss when dragon scale shield, grey owlite shield and omega ward are always avilable to me.

CIV-I only use this in clockwork tunnel level since menders can spawn in construct themed level, if I was using full elemental, I will be in trouble, however, CIV's charge actually made it possible to one shot menders. However, I think I will pick acheron over CIV any day of the week.

Driver-I never bothered to train my self to use the switch shooting technique, spamming polaris and blitz needle are much easier to learn, besides more damage in SK= win.

Pepper box- specialization > generalization, I have sworn to never make a normal damage weapon again after valiance, CIV and master blast bomb.

Shard bombs-Until OOO bring back the old shard bombs, I see no incentive in making a shard bomb of any kind.

Iron tech-like I said, already have the master blast bomb, plus, the eternal fuse time and speed decrease when charging.

Cobalt- armour with no status resistance? And the 5* version doesn't show the eyes of my knight? BOOOOORIIIIIIIIIING

Skelly- freeze defence? I hardly knew er. Seriously though, I could just wear kat eye cowl, dread skelly shield and med freeze UV valkyrie raiment.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 22:20
#4
Magnicth's picture
Magnicth
As somebody who knows all

As somebody who knows all about underused weapons (I'm a guildmaster of Shard Squad, after all), the reason people overlook these things is because there is always something that is seemingly better. However, that doesn't keep these weapons and armors from being any less great in their respective uses.

CIV- I don't have any experience with this one, but generally, most people who do stick with calibur go for leviathan for the extra bit of damage. CIV is seen more as an estranged younger brother. However, this weapon does boast a lovely undead damage bonus that can be pretty useful.

The Alchemers- Really, I'm not sure why you mentioned these, I don't see these as underused at all. Most gunners have at least one of these weapons, if not more, due to their useful charges and the ever-present ability to switch-shoot. Great set of guns, although magma and nova don't seem to be usd quite as often.

Pepperbox- I cannot give this gun enough praise. While it does not boast as much damage as blitz or plague, it has universal normal damage, the very helpful fire status, and that one thing blitz and plague lack: knockback. This gun is useful in so many places and against so many different things. As I always say: Nothing provides a better wall of gtfo than a volcanic pepperbox.

Shard Bombs- While not the glorious bullet bombs that they once were, they now have a line for each damage type, which is very unique in the world of bombs-and any other weapon type as well. They do have their problems (dem invincitinks tho)but can be pretty darn effective is used properly-and in a party with other sharder's.

ITD- Oh, how I love this bomb. The stun, the damage, the radius! It's all so delectable. Only problem here is the speed, which is slow, but I wouldn't say it's too slow. It's the middle child of the blast bombs, with the nitronome being little brother.

Cobalt &Skelly- Nice armors, each has their niche, and are fairly simple to get, especially the cobalt line.

Now for some things you didn't mention....

BAB-The ol' Big Angry. Big brother of the blast bombs, this bomb packs a serious punch, and while I have not used it, a serious lack of speed. It does boast a massive radius though, and dat sweet knockback! Definitely a great bomb if you can get past the low speed.

The Troikas- Like swinging around a massive chunk of stone. Slow, but packs a punch. Stun or freeze, it's your preference. I personally chose freeze. Not the best in every situation, but then again, nothing is. These swords, though, are spectacular if you can use them correctly, and can be effective mostly everywhere.

Iron slug- Okay, It's pretty hard to defend this one, but I have to say, I do love my iron slug. It interrupts fairly well... and that really is about it. At least it'll be getting a buff in the gunner update, which will make it a much better weapon.

The Cutters/Winmillion- Great swords, but pretty hard to use. You don't just use them, you dance with them. Being the fastest swords in the game is pretty nice, but the charge is kinda funky on all 3 of the weapons. Nevertheless, if you can dance, you can make it work.

Aaand that's all I can think of.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 00:09
#5
Bopp's picture
Bopp
the easiest is not necessarily the best or most interesting

Many of your arguments center on ease of obtaining items (Cobalt/Calibur line) or using items (Antiguas over alchemers). Often, the easiness of these items is balanced by being less powerful, in damage output, status output, etc. That's why experts don't recommend them.

For example, recipe cost is only a tiny fraction of the total cost in crafting and heating a 5-star item. So CIV costs only slightly less than Combuster. Saving a tiny amount of money to get a significantly worse sword (that you'll never use, once you get better swords, except maybe for fun) doesn't make any sense.

You bring up so many points that it's hard to address them all here. Try searching the forums (using Google, not the built-in forum search) to find threads on all of these topics.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 02:18
#6
Sir-Pandabear's picture
Sir-Pandabear
  • Heater shield
      Honestly not a bad shield, but:
      • Only one status resistance compared to the usual two of most other shields.
      • People are not as afraid of freeze as they are of fire and shock, both covered simultaneously by Gray Owlite and Crest of Almire. Therefore, people will get these shields first.
      • Unless you plan on getting a shield for every possible situations you could end up in, and that's a very expensive thing to try doing, you quickly learn to use any 5* shield even in completely wrong environments (i.e. Gray Owlite vs poison slimes) and make do with it. As such, once you have Gray Owlite, it becomes difficult to justify getting another elemental shield.
      • People would rather see silversaps nerfed than having to craft another shield because shields are boring.
  • Cold iron Vanquisher
      Weak, takes forever to kill anything with it. Takes even longer to kill zombies than with other enemies because of their massive amounts of health. For this reason, it's better to use something like Combuster. Now, Combuster is not good against gremlins and beasts, but are you really going to use CIV against those enemies?
  • Driver lines
      Not actually underused? Cryo Driver gets a bit overlooked, but these are generally the most popular guns. They're mobile and powerful, don't have the flow-destroying knockback of pulsars, aren't as weak and boring as antiguas and blaster, aren't as cumbersome and risky to use as catalyzers, magnus and autoguns.

      I have a Magma Driver and sometimes I use it to oneshot multiple lumbers with a single charge attack.

  • Volcanic pepperbox
      This is actually a good gun, and I once made a knight that beat every mission using only pepperbox, cyclops cap, and chaos cloak, but it suffers from a much larger damage penalty than staus weapons typically do. For this reason, even things that are resistant to piercing but weak to normal such as Tortodrones and Vanaduke's mask receive more damage from Blitz than from Pepperbox.
  • Shard bombs
      Broken hit limit puts a harsh punishment on skillful play. Erratic knockback puts a harsh punishment on unskillful play. Low damage puts a harsh punishment on trying to use the normal damage variant. Randomly disappearing shards puts a harsh punishment on trying to use these things near walls or large enemies.

      You need a master's degree in Putting Up With Annoying Bullcrap to use these things, and the payoff isn't worth it.

      They're fun, and I enjoy using them as a group. That's why I made a guild dedicated to them.

  • Irontech destroyer
      Slight chance of minor stun. You really can't count on it for anything, and when it does inflict, it just messes up your timing. For instance, try keeping a greaver perpetually interrupted with Irontech. I can do it easily with Nitro, not so much when they sometimes get stunned and change their timing around.

      Irontech's charge time is almost as long as BAB's, and you move just as slowly. The damage is less, and the knockback is severely less. Not as fun as BAB, and nowhere near as reliable as Nitro.

      I enjoy my Irontech, I just wouldn't bring it anywhere I cared about anyone's safety. I made a thread about it once, but some of the information found in it is wrong. For instance, I though the Irontech charged at Nitro speed, but that was due to me being severely unscientific and assuming that my slower planting times with it was due to an error in measurement. I've since made closer examinations and found that Irontech's charge time is closer to BAB's than Nitro's.

      Due to the radiant situation, 4* Irontech is not a bad choice these days.

Tue, 08/05/2014 - 03:43
#7
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

Heater shield was great during Grinchlin Assault and that time when clockworks was mostly freeze levels, a few of my friends ended up making that shield during that time. Although yeah, Omegaward would probably be more useful when it comes around again.

I'm not really a fan of magma driver, sure fire and all that but you can just hit them with another shot from nova, other drivers are great though.

Wed, 08/06/2014 - 00:34
#8
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

"Underused" implies that it should be used more often than it is. A lot of weapons are, as people have mentioned casually above without much analysis, not worth crafting or messing around with. Quite a few others are actually underused.

Like pepperbox. Pepperbox is like the brandish of normal damage. Its what normal damage is supposed to be, if normal damage wasn't just underwhelming everywhere that isn't tied to specialized damage. Pepperbox deals less damage and will never be best, but it still murders turrets, counters mechaknights, wolvers, all of the bosses, tortodrones, pretty much all of the non-extremist (danger missions/shadow lairs/xmas purgatory mountain) content in such a way as to come close to being best.

Thu, 08/07/2014 - 12:56
#9
Drischa's picture
Drischa

You didn't mention sudaruska in the OP :(
I think I've only ever seen 2 'random' people other than me using a troika line in the arcade. I say random because I'm not including the friends I've been on troika-only runs with.

Same goes for Volcanic Pepperbox. I pretty much never see anyone using it. Pepperbox is really good, it was my first autogun line - I made plague needle afterwards, and to be honest I use plague needle way more. Reason being the range. From what I've seen on the test server that might may be amended in the gunner update sort of perhaps.

Are we not going to talk about Furious Flamberge and Fearless Rigadoon? I can see why those weapons are hardly used, the status chance is awful and really needs buffing to make it even slightly viable in comparison to the other toothpick swords.

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