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Bomb Rework Proposal: Instant Burst and Proportional Charge (plus some thoughts on new players)

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Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:15
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg

Posted in parts as replies below: 2a) numbers and blast bombs, 2b) shard, vortex and orb bombs, 3) damage variants, 4a) filament and bounce bombs, 4b) demolition charge and visibility, 5a) new players and gear, 5b) scope, background and sources. Split because of the forum's character limit, not because they're separate proposals.

All reference values are for 5★ weapons at heat level 10, in stratum 6, with no UVs or gear bonuses, taken from the Spiral Knights wiki. The proposed figures are examples to illustrate the idea, not final values; fine-tuning is up to the developers.

Diagram of today vs proposed: diagram illustration

1. THE PROBLEM, MEASURED

Bombs are the only weapon class that only has a charge attack. Every use means charging, placing and waiting for the fuse, and the bomber has no shield up the whole time. The numbers show the result:

  • Nitronome — Attack: Charge (only attack); Damage (stratum 6): 217–230; Notes: ~4 tile radius, ~2 s detonation
  • Leviathan Blade — Attack: Hits 1 and 2; Damage (stratum 6): 193–203; Notes: Three-hit combo
  • Leviathan Blade — Attack: Hit 3; Damage (stratum 6): 241–258
  • Leviathan Blade — Attack: Charge; Damage (stratum 6): 355–386; Notes: Up to 3 hits on stationary enemies
  • Valiance — Attack: Basic shot; Damage (stratum 6): 108; Notes: 3 shots per clip
  • Valiance — Attack: Charge; Damage (stratum 6): 286–313
  • Deadly Crystal Bomb — Attack: Core / shard (vs. neutral); Damage (stratum 6): 70–75 / 95–99; Notes: Full detonation ~5 s

A full Nitronome charge, the classic damage bomb, does the same as a single sword swing or two pistol shots. Shard bombs need to land two shards to beat the Nitronome, and they take more than twice as long. The exception is the Dark Retribution, which has the highest damage per second of any bomb against large or stationary targets, where several orbs hit them repeatedly. On top of that, ASI barely affects bombs: it only speeds up the placing animation and doesn't touch the fuse.

This proposal isn't about raising numbers on top of the current mechanic. It's about changing how the weapon works.

On timing: Grey Havens has said on these forums that rebalancing is coming and that it may be run more like an event, and the back-end modernization has been shipping through 2026. This proposal is written for that window. Its core (sections 3 and 4) is a change to how one weapon class behaves, and it's meant to be usable as one piece of a rebalancing pass rather than as a standalone patch.

2. THE PROPOSAL

Bombs start working like a handgun. A tap places an instant bomb with a small radius and a short fuse, and you can place several in a row (three for most types) before a reload. Holding the button charges the bomb like today, but releasing it halfway no longer wastes it: the bomb comes out with a radius, damage and fuse proportional to the charge built up.

The other factor is how slow charging is. Each level of charge time reduction only removes part of the base time, and the game has a cap that prevents instant charges, so even with maximum reduction most charges still take quite a while. There are few exceptions, like the Catalyzer, whose charge is the fastest in the game (~1.3 s), or the Dark Retribution and the shard bombs, which share one of the fastest charge times among bombs. For a weapon whose only attack is the charge, that wait is paid on every single use. The burst doesn't depend on that wait.

3. MECHANICS

Instant burst. Several bombs placed in a row; the number depends on the bomb type (list below). Each instant bomb has:

  • Radius: 1–2 tiles. For bombs whose charge radius is already small, never more than ~2/3 of their own charge radius.
  • Fuse: ~0.6 s.
  • Knockback: light.
  • Damage: 90% of what the full charge does today.

Bombs per burst:

  • Blast (Blast Bomb line, Spike Shower / Dark Briar Barrage), Deconstructor, haze bombs — Bombs per burst: 3
  • Big Angry Bomb, Irontech, vortex bombs — Bombs per burst: 2
  • Dark Reprisal, Dark Reprisal Mk II, Dark Retribution — Bombs per burst: 4
  • Crystal and shard bombs — Bombs per burst: 5

Heavy bombs and vortexes, which control a lot with each bomb, place fewer; bombs that split their damage into small pieces (orbs, crystals) place more. Each type's reload is adjusted to its number of bombs. Unique and event variants follow the family they're based on.

Reload. After placing the last bomb of the burst, the knight's hand is left empty: the bomb is no longer shown in hand. The reload is a quick animation where the knight pulls another one out of an "imaginary pocket" and the bomb appears in hand again, just like the shake that reloads handguns. That way it's clear at a glance when the bomber is reloading. During the reload the knight moves at full speed but can't charge, so burst and charge are mutually exclusive modes. For the Nitronome:

  • Full cycle (three bombs plus reload): ~3.5 s with no ASI.
  • Each level of ASI: ~3.6% shorter, the same as a handgun clip.
  • At maximum ASI: ~2.8 s.

Proportional charge. A press too short for the game to register as a hold is a tap and places the instant bomb. Past that point, the bomb can be released at any moment during the charge, and radius, damage and fuse grow in a straight line between the instant values and the full charge values. The full charge keeps today's radius and gets more damage. While charging, the knight is still slowed down like today; that slowdown is part of the price of charging.

Interruptions. Taking a hit cuts the charge in half, like today, but with the new system that means releasing a smaller bomb instead of losing it. Shock still stops the charge dead. The instant bomb has no charge to lose.

Stats. ASI governs the reload and the fuse of instant bombs. CTR governs the charge. That gives each stat its own role for the bomber.

(Continues in part 2 of 5, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:21
#1
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 2a of 5 — numbers and blast bombs

4. THE NUMBERS AND WHY

Proposed values for the Nitronome (stratum 6):

  • Instant — Radius: 1–2 tiles; Damage: 195–207 (90%); Detonation: ~0.6 s
  • Half charge — Radius: ~2.5 tiles; Damage: ~285; Detonation: ~1.3 s
  • Full charge — Radius: ~4 tiles; Damage: ~370; Detonation: ~2 s

These are the anchors against the other two weapon classes:

  • One instant bomb (195–207) matches one Leviathan Blade swing (193–203).
  • Two instant bombs (390–414) are around its charge attack (355–386).
  • Three instant bombs (585–621) match its full combo (627–664).
  • With a ~3.5 s cycle, the burst does ~172–177 damage per second against a single target, on par with the Valiance (~167, with 3×108 every ~1.9 s). The small edge in the bomb's favor is paid for with its reduced radius and its fuse.

The full charge (~370) is anchored to the Leviathan Blade's charge. It doesn't compete with the burst in damage per second, it competes in area: a 1 tile instant bomb covers 1/16 of the area of a 4 tile charge, and a 2 tile one covers 1/4. That difference protects the charge's niche without forcing it to win on damage.

This is the "90% line" every family follows:

  • Instant bomb: 90% of today's charge damage.
  • Full charge: goes up by the same proportion as the Nitronome (~1.6–1.7 times today's damage).
  • Half charge: on the straight line between the two.

The percentages apply the same way at every stratum and star level, since each weapon's damage table already scales on its own.

5. BY FAMILY

Blast (such as the Blast Bomb line, Big Angry Bomb, Irontech, Spike Shower / Dark Briar Barrage)

They follow the table in section 4. The instant bomb has light knockback that doesn't push enemies too far, which also cuts down on the shoves that throw off the party today. Each line keeps its current differences in fuse, knockback and damage.

Deconstructor

The instant bomb and the half charge place the bomb like the other blast bombs. The full charge throws it instead of producing the big explosion. That's what the Gremlin Demo already does, and its bombs look like the Deconstructor. The throw:

  • Three bombs in a fan, landing 3–4 tiles away.
  • Each with a 1.5–2 tile radius and ~130 damage (~390 if all three hit the same target).
  • Minor stun if they hit an enemy mid-flight.

The Deconstructor becomes the only bomb that trades area for range. This is compatible with the existing suggestion to move the line up to 5★ and make it elemental; the shadow and piercing variants are in section 6.

Haze bombs (such as Shivermist, Venom Veiler, Voltaic Tempest, Ash of Agni, Stagger Storm, Torpor Tantrum)

  • Instant bomb: a small cloud 1–1.5 tiles wide, lasting 1.5–2 s, with a slight or fair status chance.
  • Full charge: today's cloud (~4 tiles, 5 s) and today's good status chance.
  • Size grows a little with each star, both for the instant bomb and the charge.

The game already gives different chances per attack type: the Storm Driver, for example, has a much higher chance of shock on its charge than on its basic shot. Haze bombs would use the game's own scale (slight, fair, good) separately for the instant bomb and the charge.

Their damage follows the 90% line from section 4, for both the instant bomb and the charge. The rule applies to the bomb's own damage, its initial explosion, not to status ticks, which follow each status's normal rules. That own damage is low today (damage bonuses only affect the small initial explosion, less than half the radius), so the rule keeps things consistent without turning haze bombs into damage weapons.

Today the initial blast of every haze bomb is elemental. The proposed change:

  • Ash of Agni (fire) and Voltaic Tempest (shock): stay elemental.
  • Venom Veiler (poison) and Torpor Tantrum (sleep): shadow.
  • Shivermist Buster (freeze): piercing.
  • Stagger Storm (stun): normal.

The Shivermist would lose its elemental edge against undead and constructs, although the freeze would keep working the same.

(Continues in part 2b, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:21
#2
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 2b of 5 — shard, vortex and orb bombs

Crystal and shard bombs (such as the Crystal, Shard, Dark Matter, Splinter, Sun Shards and salt lines)

When the instant bomb's core explodes, it releases extra crystals that land around it and detonate. The count adds up by star level:

  • 0★, 1★ and 2★: no extra crystals.
  • 3★: +1 (1 crystal).
  • 4★: +2 more (3 in total).
  • 5★: +3 more (6 in total).

The crystals don't split into more crystals. The full charge keeps today's ring of shards. The instant bomb's fuse is compressed, because today's ~5 s wait doesn't work for place-and-retreat play:

  • Core: ~0.6 s.
  • Crystals: ~1 s after the core.

With the 90% applied, a 5★ instant bomb against neutral enemies does:

  • Core: ~66.
  • Each crystal: ~88.
  • Core plus one crystal: ~154; plus two: ~242, around the blast instant bomb (~200).

This family is misleading on paper. If you add up every possible hit from a current Deadly Crystal Bomb charge against neutral enemies (75 from the core plus 8 shards at 99), you get ~870 damage, and the weapon would look like the strongest in the game. In practice the crystals fly out in different directions and a crystal on one side never touches an enemy on the other, so a normal-sized enemy takes one or two and the rest are lost in the air. Taking all of them only happens with giant, stationary targets, like lichen colonies or some bosses. That's why the family's real damage per second is so low, and why the instant bomb doesn't need a cap: the spread of the crystals is already the limit.

A warning: according to the wiki, shard damage is low at base but grows much more with damage bonuses than other weapons do. With bomb damage gear, crystal instant bombs would scale faster than blast ones, and that's worth watching when setting final values.

New mix-type variants are also proposed, carrying two damage types at once. Today a specialized shard bomb is nearly useless outside its target: the Deadly Crystal Bomb does 24–27 with the core and 29–33 per shard against beasts and gremlins in stratum 6. The game already treats dual damage as two simultaneous attacks, so a mix-type variant would cover more families, in exchange for a lower peak against the weak one. Section 6 extends this idea to the other families.

Two new crystal bombs are proposed, at 0★ and 1★ (see section 9).

Vortex bombs (Graviton, Electron, Obsidian Crusher, Celestial Vortex)

  • Instant bomb: pulls enemies together for ~1 s and doesn't throw them out when it ends.
  • Instant radius: 1–2 tiles, so it only catches one or two nearby enemies.
  • Charge: pull strength, duration and final knockback proportional to the charge at release.

Grouping a whole room is still the charge's job, and the burst can't be used as a mass trap. With that duration, the two vortexes in each burst also leave the target free for most of the cycle.

Their damage follows the 90% line from section 4, same as haze bombs: it applies to the bomb's own damage and not to any status it inflicts. That damage is almost symbolic today (the Obsidian Crusher's initial explosion, for example, has the strength of a 0★ weapon), so the rule only keeps the families consistent.

Dark Reprisal, Dark Reprisal Mk II and Dark Retribution

These are three stand-alone bombs that don't upgrade into each other, and each has its own number of orbs. Orbs scale with the charge up to each bomb's maximum, so no charge ends up worse than today:

  • Dark Reprisal (2★, ~1.5 tile radius, two orbs today): one orb on the instant bomb, two on the full charge.
  • Dark Reprisal Mk II (3★, ~2 tile radius, three orbs today): one, two and three.
  • Dark Retribution (5★, four orbs today): one on the instant bomb, two at half charge, four on the full charge.

Since the Reprisal and the Mk II already have small radii, their instant bomb uses ~1 tile. Variants in other damage types are in section 6.

(Continues in part 3, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:22
#3
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 3 of 5 — damage variants

6. DAMAGE VARIANTS

Damage types are spread very unevenly across families today. Shard bombs cover all four types, but blast bombs only exist in normal (Blast Bomb line) and piercing (Spike Shower / Dark Briar Barrage), Dark Retribution orbs only in shadow, and the initial blast of every haze bomb is always elemental. With the burst, blast and orb bombs become main weapons, and a bomber needs to cover the same damage types as a swordsman or a gunner.

  • Blast — Normal: Exists (Nitronome); Piercing: Exists (Dark Briar Barrage); Elemental: New; Shadow: New; Mix type: New
  • Deconstructor — Normal: Normal today; Piercing: New; Elemental: Conversion of the current one; Shadow: New; Mix type: New
  • Shard — Normal: Exists (Deadly Shard); Piercing: Exists (Deadly Splinter); Elemental: Exists (Deadly Crystal); Shadow: Exists (Deadly Dark Matter); Mix type: New
  • Orbs (Dark Retribution) — Normal: New; Piercing: New; Elemental: New; Shadow: Exists; Mix type: New
  • Haze — Normal: Change (Stagger Storm); Piercing: Change (Shivermist Buster); Elemental: Exists (Ash of Agni, Voltaic Tempest); Shadow: Change (Venom Veiler, Torpor Tantrum); Mix type: New

For blast bombs, two new lines are proposed, elemental and shadow, following the same scheme as the Blast Bomb line. The Deconstructor becomes elemental, as its gremlin bomb look and the existing forum suggestion point to, and gains two new versions, shadow and piercing; all three keep the throw on full charge, and the Nitronome keeps covering normal damage. Orbs get normal, piercing and elemental versions with the same 1, 2 and 4 orb pattern.

On top of that, each family gets mix-type variants: two damage types in the same bomb, for players who don't want to carry one bomb per monster family. The game already treats dual damage as two simultaneous attacks, so no new system is needed. Every variant follows the 90% line from section 4.

The two kinds of mix work differently:

  • Normal plus a type is the all-rounder. Since no monster family resists normal damage, this variant always does something, and it trades a lower peak against the weak family for never being dead weight.
  • Two specialized types (piercing plus shadow, elemental plus piercing, and so on) is the specialist's mix: it covers two monster families well and still leaves the bomber helpless against what resists both.

As a side note, not central to this proposal: instead of crafting a very specific weapon that only fills one role, like the Sudaruska with its normal damage, players could be allowed to spend extra materials on the weapon they already have to change its damage type. That would be a much larger change to the crafting system and is only mentioned as an idea.

7. NEW TYPES: FILAMENT BOMB, BOUNCE BOMB AND DEMOLITION CHARGE

Three new families are proposed that only make sense with the burst and the charge.

(Continues in part 4a, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:22
#4
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 4a of 5 — filament and bounce bombs

Filament Bomb

While its fuse lasts, each instant Filament Bomb links to the previous one with an energy filament, and an enemy crossing a filament takes damage once per filament. Placing them while retreating draws a broken line or a shape that enemies have to cross to reach the bomber: "place and retreat" becomes "draw". The Tortofist handgun line already raises a wall of crystals that enemies can't cross; the Filament Bomb doesn't block them, it makes them pay to cross.

  • Bombs per burst: 4.
  • Link range: ~4 tiles between bombs.
  • Instant fuse: ~1.5 s, longer than the others so the filaments last.
  • Instant damage: explosion ~70% of a blast instant bomb, each filament contact ~30%. An enemy that crosses one filament and eats one explosion takes the same as from a blast instant bomb.

The charge draws a circle instead of lines. On detonation, the charged bomb raises a filament ring at the edge of its radius, and any enemy that crosses it, going in or out, takes damage once.

  • Ring duration: ~2 s.
  • Radius and damage scale with the charge like the other families.
  • Total per enemy (center explosion plus one ring contact) doesn't go above the full charge damage from section 4.

The Filament Bomb has no knockback and no status, and its filaments are thin and low-key, so it doesn't throw off the party or cover the screen. Its base damage would be elemental, with the section 6 variants later on.

Bounce Bomb

The Bounce Bomb doesn't explode just once: once placed, it bounces in place and releases a damage pulse over its whole radius every time it hits the ground. It's like the Dark Retribution in that it hits several times over time, but instead of orbs spinning around the edge, each pulse covers the whole circle from the same spot. It's an area denial bomb: enemies that walk in late still get hit.

Instant bomb:

  • Bombs per burst: 3.
  • Bounces: 2, with a ~1–1.5 tile radius.
  • Pulses: the first at ~0.6 s, the second ~0.4 s later.
  • Damage: ~50% of a blast instant bomb per pulse, so both pulses together match a blast instant bomb.

Charge:

  • Bounces: three at half charge, four on full charge.
  • Full charge radius: ~3 tiles, under the Nitronome's 4 because this bomb's value is in its duration.
  • Time between pulses: ~0.5 s.
  • Damage: ~1/4 of the full charge damage per pulse (~90 in stratum 6), ~370 in total per enemy.

Pulses have no knockback, so enemies stay inside the radius. It pairs naturally with a vortex, and unlike blast bombs it doesn't throw off the party. Each pulse is a short, sharp thump on the ground with no cloud, so it fits section 8. Its base damage would be normal, with the section 6 variants later on.

(Continues in part 4b, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:23
#5
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 4b of 5 — demolition charge and visibility

Demolition Charge

The Demolition Charge takes the Catalyzer's idea and brings it to bombs: set up first, then detonate everything at once. On the Catalyzer, basic shots tag enemies with orbs that do almost no damage, and its charge, the fastest in the game, detonates them; the more orbs on a target, the bigger the explosion. Here, the burst places the charges and the charge is the detonator.

Burst (placing charges):

  • Bombs per burst: 3.
  • Charges don't explode on their own: they stay armed on the ground, blinking.
  • Armed charges expire after ~10 s without exploding.
  • Maximum armed at once: 6 (two bursts).

Detonator (the charge):

  • A short charge, like the Catalyzer's.
  • Releasing it detonates all of your armed charges at once.
  • Only your own charges: teammates can't set them off early, a common complaint with the Catalyzer.
  • With nothing armed, the charge places a single charge that detonates on its own after ~1 s.

Accumulation:

  • A lone charge: ~1.5 tile radius, ~200 damage (the 90% line).
  • Charges within ~1 tile of each other merge into one bigger explosion: two charges ~2.5 tiles, three or more ~3.5 tiles.
  • Merged charges add up their damage, each counted once per enemy, and the knockback grows with the size of the explosion.

Setup is the price. Six charges need two bursts and a reload before the detonation, around 4.5–5 s, for up to ~1,200 damage on an enemy that stays on top of them. That's more than the regular burst for a bomber who plans ahead, but it only pays off if enemies are where the charges are. Its base damage would be normal, with the section 6 variants later on.

8. VISIBILITY

Instant explosions shouldn't create visual effects that act as obstacles: no big clouds and no strong screen shake, just a brief flash. Today the Nitronome's explosion and the screen shake that comes with it block the view of both the bomber and their teammates (the well-known "blue screen of death"), and bombs like the Shocking Salt Bomb produce very bright flashes. With several instant bombs per cycle, those effects multiplied would make combat unreadable.

An option in the settings is also proposed to reduce or hide large bomb visual effects, your own and other players', while always keeping radius indicators visible.

(Continues in part 5a, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:23
#6
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 5a of 5 — new players and gear

9. NEW PLAYERS

Today new players get a free Blast Bomb and every recipe up to the Nitronome just by progressing through the rank missions, and the shard line starts at 2★. The only bomb a new player knows is the blast bomb. Two crystal bombs at 0★ and 1★, given as early rewards, would show them from the start that bombs have more than one style, and would give the burst system an easy entry point.

For a new player, slow charging weighs even more: with no charge time reduction on their gear, no UVs and no bomber suit, every bomb takes even longer, and their first impression is of a slow weapon that barely does damage. The burst gives them something useful from the very start, with the most basic gear.

There's also a criticism here that goes beyond bombs. Today the game does little to attract and keep people who arrive: there are no incentives designed for new players and no initiatives dedicated to their experience, and some parts of the arsenal depend on a community that is already small. The Bombing Guide itself admits that getting an Electron Vortex, which requires Lockdown tokens, is almost impossible before tier 3 because of the size of today's community.

Other long-running online games have taken this problem seriously. Warframe spent several updates, over years, on the new player experience: quests that teach systems nobody used to explain, a revised difficulty curve, and gear sorted by role. Not all of it worked; an alternative start it added in 2023 was later moved further into the progression after seeing how players used it. It's mentioned not as a model to copy, but as proof that a veteran game can dedicate a whole period to the people who arrive. Spiral Knights, with its modernization underway, is at a good moment for something like that, and 0★ and 1★ crystal bombs would be one small piece of a bigger effort.

One more idea in that direction, outside bombs: a free, limited-palette color system for armor, shields and weapons, applied per part (for example four sections per piece). Today a knight's personal color only tints the prismatic parts of an outfit, and reapplying it from the Style Kit costs a crown fee every time; the rest of an item's colors are fixed, and the game's usual answer is releasing recolored versions of the same costume in prize boxes. The proposal is for each piece to carry its own small set of color slots, around four per piece (base, trim, details and accents), that the player can paint from a free basic palette, separately from the personal color.

  • Free basic palette for everyone, so a new player can make their starting gear look like their own from the first hour.
  • Extra colors, metallics and glow effects sold as usables, the same way recolors are sold today, so the system still brings in revenue.
  • Paint saved in the Style Kit, like personal colors are today, and reapplied with no fee.
  • The palette applies to every piece of armor, helm, shield and weapon, old and new, not to a special line of paintable items. Painting is not single-use either: a piece can be repainted as many times as the player wants, and the palette itself is never consumed.

One open question: should accessories use the same color slots? They're the most visible part of a knight's look and the most recolored items in the game, so including them would make the system much more attractive, but it would also overlap most with what's being sold today. Worth deciding rather than leaving implicit.

It may sound minor next to a weapon rework, but letting people look the way they want is one of the things that most keeps players in a long-running game, and it costs no game balance at all.

10. GEAR

Today there's almost no way to get ASI for bombs: outside the Crown/Armor of the Fallen and the Swiftstrike Buckler, ASI UVs, trinkets and sprite perks don't apply to bombs. Since ASI governs the burst in this proposal, bomb ASI UVs are proposed, along with a line of bomber suits that combines resistances with bomb-specific bonuses (ASI, CTR and damage). There's a precedent: the gunner update in December 2014 added a full line of gunner armor and let knights move at full speed while charging any handgun.

(Continues in part 5b, in the next reply.)

Fri, 09/11/2026 - 20:23
#7
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Part 5b of 5 — scope, background and sources

11. OUT OF SCOPE

This proposal doesn't address PvP or Lockdown balance; the values are for PvE. It also doesn't try to fix the known ways of skipping the wait that already exist with swords and handguns: hitting twice and waiting a moment, shield-cancelling, or quick-swapping weapons to reset the count. The same can happen with the burst, by placing two bombs and waiting or by swapping weapons to avoid the reload, and it's left the same as with the other weapons. It doesn't propose specific suit designs beyond the suggestion in section 10, and it gives reference values at 5★ and stratum 6 instead of a table for every item.

BACKGROUND

The community has already proposed bomb improvements in threads like "Improving Shard Bombs" (https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/123430), "Automatic Bomb Charge" (https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/115349), "Rebalancing: A Deep Dive" (https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/125288) and the suggestion to move the Deconstructor up to 5★ elemental (https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/114954). The developer comments on rebalancing are in "Returning player's thoughts and question for Devs" (https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/125227). A Catalyzer rework thread (https://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/111974) also imagined its shots working like mines before detonation, which is close to the Demolition Charge. Those ideas adjust numbers or individual pieces. This proposal changes how the weapon works, and it can coexist with several of them.

SOURCES

Damage tables, radii and detonation times come from each weapon's wiki page (Nitronome, Leviathan Blade, Valiance, Deadly Crystal Bomb, Spike Shower, Shocking Salt Bomb, Obsidian Crusher, Dark Reprisal, Dark Reprisal Mk II, Dark Retribution, Torpor Tantrum, Shivermist Buster, Stagger Storm, Ash of Agni, Dark Briar Barrage, Catalyzer), plus the Abilities, Charge attack, Damage, Bombing Guide, Gunslinger Guide, Demo, Personal Color and Recolor pages. No bomb was changed in the 2025–2026 updates listed on the wiki's History page. Valiance clip times come from the Lancer Knightz guild data ("Handgun Clips Per Minute"), collected in 2011–2012 and not updated after the 2014 gunner update, so they are approximate.

Sat, 09/12/2026 - 21:23
#8
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
Some thoughts

First off, you really did dig up an ancient post of mine (now I feel old XD)

Bombs have one unique upside that guns and swords struggle to to do... they effectively have DPS that scales directly to the number of monsters you're fighting, and the ability to fight against everything in the room and win might have been viewed as strong enough to justify a charge only mechanic. It could also have been that bombs were supposed to be treated like a 3rd less used option in your weapon kit.

Problem is that they're good enough to run just themselves or have enough that have broken the mold to become a dedicated playstyle where their flaws are most strongly felt.

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When it comes to the mechanic changes I do think it would be interesting but I worry that it may be hard to make a regular attack for each one that stands out from a gameplay perspective.

I also don't think that we should get bombs of each type in every type of damage... having failings or shortcomings makes them more interesting and despite having more options it would actually end up restricting the kinds of bombs you can usually use since players would gravitate towards only the strongest... similar to how the Umbra Driver stopped being so useful once the Grim Repeater and Tundrus arrived... because of more options it was eclipsed to such a degree that it's rare to see these days

Weapons that exist in every type should have drawbacks in their own way, like how the Blaster lines are rather boring to play with, or how Shards are difficult to use.

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One change I do like is Vortex bombs not flinging their trapped victims since aside from AOE bombs also excel at controlling enemies... and having them flung in every direction to such a strong degree isn't really what should happen.

Another that I believe would work well is allowing players to change the opacity of bomb special effects... I do think that keeping them all visible is probably the best idea though so no 100% disabling bomb special effects.

Last I like the idea that bombers can move at full speed while charging.... in fact I might alter this to change it so swords and guns get a speed reduction... something low like 5% but enough. This allows bombers not only more agility in battle but also allows them to more easily grab monster aggro.

A huge issue with using bombs is the fact that having your weapon ready often means that you're in the back of the party... so all your allies rush in and steal the aggro of everything and you have to pray that they intentionally lead enemies into your bombs... it would overall be easier if you could just get to the fight just as fast as they can walk, and faster than they can do so while charging an attack.

New players also struggle with bombs early game just because they indeed do all suck at that level but also there's no level dedicated to them that you can't just spam your sword and win. I believe one way to at least draw the eyes of new players is to have a counterpart to the Cyclops Cap and Fencing Jacket items... a shield that would give the player CTR Med on their bombs... and honestly despite probably being barely better than Proto shield, this kind of item would revolutionize how people play bomber
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Filament bomb seems fun and even if the regular attack idea won't be adopted I do believe that it could be adapted into a "constellation bomb" where it connects beams to nearby sibling bombs to deal damage in a manner similar to how Catalyzer guns support other Catalyzer guns.

Bounce bomb also seems pretty handy, even if you could just make it a pile of bombs that explode one after the other instead of a bouncing one.... there might have be to be some drawback since the Nitronome currently does this job very well with it's high speed and knockback... if you could stack Bounce Bombs on a spot then it might be too good at the job.

Detonator seems fun but this feels like it could just be frustrating trying to play since a lot of your allies will just run in first and kill everything... and while this is a common bomber complaint this is just adding more layers of waiting...

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The paint idea sounds interesting but would involve a ton of work to recolor each item in every theme.... it would honestly be much more reasonable to buy items from Bechamel such as Proto armor and helms in different themes... These already exist and I'm willing to bet that a lot of players wish they had some of the other colors of starting gear because the costumes for that particular model only come in a limited selection

Sun, 09/13/2026 - 16:20
#9
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Details

Thanks for the detail. I needed to read up properly before this turned into another generic suggestion (buff/debuff), and your old Catalyzer thread was part of that: the Demolition Charge was me putting that idea on a bomb.

Where you're right

The damage variants point is the strongest thing you wrote and I'm dropping that section. The Umbra Driver example says it all: more options didn't create variety, they pushed everyone onto the two best lines. Weapons in every damage type also lose any character of their own; section 6 assumed filling the grid was good in itself, and it isn't.

The Demolition Charge has the problem you describe: its whole point is waiting for the right moment, and in a party where everyone rushes in it never comes. Adding waiting to the one weapon whose problem is waiting is backwards.

Your speed change is better than mine: a small reduction on swords and handguns, rather than a bonus for bombers, gets the same result without inflating the class. The constellation bomb sounds great. If another player carries a Filament Bomb and I do too, they can link to each other and build one interconnected net. There should probably be a cap on links, or no cap and we see if it turns out counterproductive. An opacity slider with no full disable is the right call, and I'll take it over hiding effects. And stacked Bounce Bombs on one spot would be too good next to the Nitronome; it needs a hard cap.

Your aggro point is the best argument for the burst I've read and it isn't in my write-up: a charging bomber is stuck at the back hoping someone drags the fight onto their bomb. Arriving with the party instead of behind it is most of what the rework is for.

One push-back

You worry it would be hard to give each bomb a basic attack that stands out. Fair, but nothing needs inventing: the small haze cloud is something monsters already do in game, shards keep their principle with fewer crystals, Dark bombs come out with fewer orbs, and a vortex pulls for a second without flinging. The family does the differentiating and the instant version inherits it at a smaller scale.

Where I don't follow you

Your first point is that bombs have a unique upside: DPS that scales with monster count. True, and my write-up doesn't deny it. But you also said bombs are good enough to run on their own and have become a dedicated playstyle where their flaws are felt hardest, which is my case exactly: a weapon good enough to build around shouldn't pay charge-only prices. So I measured it.

I tested on the preview server, Firestorm Citadel, depth 24. I built a cage out of totems: a lone zombie respawning in the same spot, and a packed group inside for the multi-target case. All weapons at level 10. Gear: Chaos set (cloak and cowl), no shield bonus, and a battle sprite with an undead bonus. Everything was at max CTR and the damage ceiling. Numbers are what the game showed me, not wiki tables.

  • Leviathan Blade combo: 271, 271, 331, 271, 271 to kill (a combo and a half), ~5 s.
  • Leviathan Blade charge: 471 per hit, 3 hits. On a single target it usually lands 1 because the target flies off: ~10 s with the charge, 1 to 2 s if all 3 land.
  • Valiance: 174 per shot, 8 shots to kill, ~4.5 s.
  • Valiance charge: 386, 4 charges, 9 to 11 s by distance.
  • Nitronome: 301 per bomb, 5 bombs to kill, ~10 s.

Three weapons landing on roughly 1,400-1,500 total says the numbers are sane. DPS:

  • Valiance combo: ~309
  • Leviathan combo: ~283
  • Valiance charge: ~154
  • Nitronome: ~150
  • Leviathan charge, 1 hit: ~47
  • Leviathan charge, all 3 hits: ~700 (1,413 in ~2 s)

So the bomb does about half the DPS of a sword or handgun on one target, and much of that window is a bomb on the ground doing nothing.

At 150 against 283, bombs need two enemies to tie a sword, and swords and handguns already hit two to four at once, so the real break-even is nearer four or five packed, stationary ones. The upside isn't that bombs scale with monster count, it's that they need a full room to match what the others do to one target.

Bombs also sabotage their own premise: the knockback launches the target well away even when caught at the blast's edge, so hitting it again is hard in the open. The weapon whose justification is hitting several enemies scatters them with its own hit, which is why your vortex change is right.

And here's the part that argues against my own class: that Leviathan charge is both the worst and best line on the list. On a target that gets launched it lands a single hit and drops to ~47 DPS, worse than the bomb; on one that stays put all three land and nothing else comes close. A charge is all or nothing. A few carry a weapon on their own, Blitz Needle and the Brandish line being the obvious ones, and the Magnus line lives entirely on its charge in all three damage types. The Callahan is also where all-or-nothing shows worst: beasts and fiends dodge it outright, so the piercing branch is aimed at enemies that won't stand still for it. When a charge doesn't suit the situation, swords and guns fall back on the basic attack. Bombs have nothing. That's the problem I'm trying to fix, not "bombs are weak".

On my proposal, using the measured Nitronome, an instant bomb at 90% is 271; three in a ~3.5 s cycle is ~232 DPS, below both combos. That doesn't put bombs on top, it puts them just under the other two: out of "situational utility" and into "a weapon class like swords and guns", flaws and all. Not best at anything, just a normal weapon that hits an area.

Caveats. The cage is synthetic: no traps, no fleeing enemies, no mixed families, 180 ms lag. In the multi-enemy case the bomb clears the group in ~10 s, the sword partly, the handgun doesn't, so the crowd argument holds, but that group was packed and still: the bomb's best case, not most rooms. Chaos is universal, so all three got the same boost rather than favouring the bomb; a Mad Bomber set would push the Nitronome higher, but then it stops being like for like.

Open question: if bombs already work as their own playstyle, why do they need five placements and 10s for what a sword does in 5s (in this case)? The variants section and the Demolition Charge are dropped either way until a better answer turns up, but I'd like an answer to the table.

Sun, 09/13/2026 - 16:34
#10
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Splitting off

Two parts of my write-up belong in their own thread and I'll move them: retain new players and paint.

You said new players struggle with bombs early on, and the progression makes it worse: Proto Bomb at 1-4, Cold Snap and Firecracker at 3-1, then the Blast Bomb at 3-2, after which the blast family is the only kind most ever handle. What they learn isn't "bombs", it's "place a blast bomb and back off". Your CTR Med bomb shield would do more about that than my two crystal bombs.

On paint, the workload argument is fair. Personal color already tints part of the armor and helm, and costumes ship in variants (roast, cool, fancy, and so on), so the wall is art time, not tech (I think). More Bechamel colours of existing gear is the cheap fix, but I don't think that retains anyone.

Sun, 09/13/2026 - 17:24
#11
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
Giving bombs a regular attack

Giving bombs a regular attack might be very labor intensive especially if there's partial charges as well... one suggestion I did have way in the past is form them to be treated more like a heavy sword with a two swing combo... where you literally just swing the bomb in your palm like the sword, just with a 1 block range... no blast, no status, just enough of an attack to get enemies like Greavers and to help break through blocks

Alternatively it could be made where bombs never lose charge meter while prepping an attack and can break stone blocks and minerals with just one blast. This helps keep timing consistent and helps even in situations where you may get swarmed since you can still get attacks off.

I personally like the second one since being good at bombs is a lot harder than anything else because it takes a deeper knowledge of game mechanics and enemy movement and attacks... so being able to succeed with the limits bombs place on your is almost a self imposed hard mode, and also viewed as more of a badge of honor when you can make it work.

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Blast bombs like Nitronome are the "stock" weapon for their class just like the Valiance and Leviathan blade... they not only are easy and straightforward to use but also exemplify various aspects of that weapon class... which in the Nitronome's case also includes knockback which actually is very important to specific playstyles.

There are 3 main ways to work a Nitronome

The first way most bombers know is to use the knockback to pin something in the corner so it can't get away

Next is basic area denial... you basically stay in one spot or slowly creep your bombs forward, this creates a safe zone for your allies where enemies can't get into easily without being knocked away...

Last is the choke holder, similar to the last but this time holding a chokepoint where monsters have to move through to get you and your team... you can keep all the monsters on one side while your team shoots in perfect safety

In all of these the knockback is to be treated like a Utility to break up groups of monsters, or to keep them from getting somewhere... there aren't many truly dedicated damage bombs and it can be easy to dismiss a bomb just because it doesn't deal as much damage. Haze and Vortex are very obvious in their team support... Nitronome can dish out more damage but it also is surprisingly a good utility bomb, not as much a damage bomb.

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I might argue that your other bomb ideas are in a sense ok if done right.... the Filament/Constellation bomb would be the damage oriented bomb, the one with multiple blasts could have a smaller range to counter it's ability to hit multiple times, and the Detonator could be reworked into something like a landmine system or at the very least be meme'd into the "fun weapon" like Catalyzers are...

Main thing for bombs isn't more types or status, or even reworks of old bombs outside of maybe damage.... bombs... just really lack the variety of playstyles that guns or swords do... so they honestly just need new kinds more than anything...

Landmines, Claymores, Napalm, rolling bombs, etc etc etc... the more the merrier

Tue, 09/15/2026 - 20:38
#12
Noobciborg's picture
Noobciborg
Nothing gets removed.

Nothing gets removed. Knockback, utility and every bomb's niche stay exactly as they are. And there's a second goal I never made explicit: bombs should stop depending on CTR alone. Today a bomb without CTR isn't viable, whatever you're using it for. Swords and handguns work with no UVs and no armour bonuses in any situation; bombs only halfway. After the change the utility is still there and the weapon also hits, which is what the other two classes have been doing all along.

Placing a bomb instantly already exists in the game: in Blast Network bombs don't require charging at all. Bringing it across has been asked for before: Put the blast network/bomberman bombs into PvE. Your alternative, swinging the bomb like a heavy sword, is a new attack that has to be animated, balanced and fitted to every line. My proposal is less work.

With swords and handguns, releasing the button before the charge is ready cancels the charge and performs the normal attack instead. A failed charge still gives you an attack. With a bomb the same mistake gives you nothing, and that charge was all you had.

On the alternative you prefer, never losing the charge meter while prepping: breaking stone and minerals is all that gets fixed there, and the rest of the class stays where it is. No weapon keeps its charge through damage, and that's the price of being hit mid-charge; exempting bombs makes them the one weapon that doesn't pay it. If bombs don't get interrupted, swords and handguns shouldn't either. It's still charge-only, still CTR-only, still the same fuse.

Your three uses are real and they work. But they're exceptional: they describe specific moments, not the minute to minute of a run. And in those same moments the shield gets there first, since raising it pushes enemies away with no charge and no fuse. The BAB analysis in Bomb balance issues reaches the same conclusion: in the defensive scenario, cornered and surrounded, six seconds pass between charge and fuse, and by then it's over.

The usual case is the opposite. The Bombing Guide lists among the Nitronome's drawbacks that poorly placed bombs push enemies into teammates and that over-kiting pushes enemies towards you. With the BAB it's structural: between the knockback and the long fuse, enemies that get flung don't make it back into the blast in time, so you only hit with every other bomb, and you can't correct with the shield because that pushes them out of the radius (Bomb balance issues, Nitronome Vs Big Angry Bomb Vs Irontech Destroyer). And on shards, Improving Shard Bombs says the opposite of your case: they barely provide knockback, so outside the status ones they barely provide utility.

Past the Nitronome, the bombs people reach for are the Dark Briar Barrage, Dark Retribution, hazes and vortexes, and among the vortexes the Electron line specifically, because the shock keeps enemies grouped after the blast instead of letting them scatter. None of them push the way the blast line does. If knockback were the utility you describe, that list would look the other way round.

Your new bombs are valid: landmines, claymores, napalm, rolling bombs. And that's exactly why the mechanic is needed. Built on what exists today, they're born with the same problem the rest carry and end up in the same place. Your own argument against my damage variants, that more options push everyone onto the best ones, applies just as well to more bombs on the current mechanic.

On the self-imposed hard mode: you say being good at bombs is almost that, and a badge of honour when you make it work. That describes a class most players don't pick, and most never get far enough to pick it in the first place. That's the problem I'm trying to solve, and what would make bombs play like the other two: reacting to the fight as it happens, instead of predicting where everything will be two seconds from now.

Wed, 09/16/2026 - 07:27
#13
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
It could definitely be tried,

It could definitely be tried, even if at the very least it's a weak and simple explosion. I do think that you could also try different options for different bombs besides just using them as bombs just to see which style of attack works better... small blasts, using them as short range projectile that doesn't explode, or swinging it around like a heavy blunt object...

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I might also suggest trying to find new points of view on the problem and possible solutions... one reason bombs kinda suck is because bombing armor is very limited, but if bomb CTR was more distributed among other armor lines then it could encourage a hybrid playstyle much more easily. Demo armor would naturally be the best and might need some buffs itself to keep that role.

Imagine if every 5 star demo set at minimum had CTR med and DMG med... Volcanic Demo gets +2 damage on top of the existing +4 CTR, Bombastic gets +2 CTR along with it's damage... Mercurial gets +2 CTR along with it's +2 speed and damage.... and since Mad Bomber already has those... just bump it's damage up to +6 for bombs and give it some move speed as well

And for other sets... just as an example, imagine if Nameless set had bomb CTR Med.... would be enough to justify running some sort of support bomb on top of it's usual guns

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I will say that going solo bombs is hard but you also are forced to get much better with them than most people do... a lot of people end up quitting after having enemies thrown into themselves because they try to kite wrong, they get too greedy and can't stand the fact the bomb doesn't hit everything in the room every time, or they get kicked from a party because the bombs are placed bad and fling enemies all around...

I did outline 3 ways to use a Nitronome, give it a try next time you play in a compound

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Bombs only is basically the only self imposed hard mode out there... Bombs are a bit similar to the Alchemer guns TBH and only start to see their potential bloom as they reach 5 star.

If you want to make it easier for newer players then maybe viable hybrid armors is a way to go, along with the earlier mentioned bomb CTR boosting shield. Big issue with Demo gear midgame is that it's elemental resist and the sword and gun sets are pierce... you do have the later options of the Gunner update armor and the Padded demo line, but that can only take you so far... having sets that ask you to mix weapons or make it easy to mix sets would be a huge help.

Thu, 09/17/2026 - 17:41
#14
The-Curse-Alejoeye's picture
The-Curse-Alejoeye
I really want this change.

+1
I definitely like the proposed change because, as a retired veteran player slowly coming back as a new player, I never liked the idea of the bomb as a standalone weapon, especially since the few interactions I had with bombs were bad—even after entering the recent "Preview" and testing the energy-based ones available.

This doesn't fall on deaf ears; I only own three 5-star bombs: "Dark Retribution," "Nitronome," and "Obsidian Crusher." Despite owning them, I don't use them because bombs are SITUATIONAL; they aren't a primary weapon, but a complement that, in my opinion, is just a waste of time. This goes beyond a simple "CTR Max." Even though my bombs have Med-High CTR UVs, I feel they're still useless. You could say, "you haven't experimented with X or Y bomb," but when using them, they simply don't give the same sense of FUN that a handgun or sword offers. I'm not talking about strategy or which one is the most powerful, but about it being fun to use rather than a self-imposed CHALLENGE—which it isn't, nor should it be, since all that accomplishes is boosting your ego.

I'm not just speaking for myself. Personally, for as long as I can remember, bombs have never had a decent role other than being a nuisance, crowd control, or simply knocking enemies back. If you look at each bomb individually, every single one requires an instruction manual, even if it seems as simple as holding the charge and planting it—each bomb is SITUATIONAL (especially the haze bombs).

That said, you shouldn't look at the problem as a VETERAN with 15 years of experience in the game, because they already know exactly the "how, when, where, and why" to use these bombs and maximize their potential. Even as a "veteran," I have no idea about any of this, because bombs really aren't easy to use.

On top of that (and no one can deny this), people never use a bomb while leveling it up—for instance, from 3 stars to 4 or 5. It's never used; they prefer using a sword or handgun instead. So, regarding that bomb you love so much, "why aren't you using it while leveling it up, but you are using a sword or handgun?" I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but that's how it is: bombs aren't fun to use. I've never seen a player use any bomb other than "Electron Vortex / Graviton Vortex," just like with "Voltedge / Combuster / Acheron." There is no diversity there, only a META.

Lately, I've seen that the developers intend to break this meta structure of using only one specific sword, handgun, and bomb (or the ones mentioned above). Looking at usage statistics, I'd bet my hands that those win by a landslide with an 80% pick rate. I see there is genuine concern, because it makes no sense to rework weapons that literally nobody used (except for the two P2W handguns)—doesn't that raise an eyebrow? Now, seeing this weapon rework, average players not only realized these weapons exist, but they will also start using them more often. This is the change that's needed, not a simple "add CTR MAX to everything to fix it." That's just a band-aid on a broken road; don't try to fix something by minimizing it, you have to pull the problem out by its roots.

Additionally, the only thing I would change about this proposal is the "partial charge," which I honestly don't see fitting in. A half-charged sword does a normal attack, a half-charged handgun fires a single shot, so why give the bomb an additional attack? It would be better if a half-charge is simply counted as a "tap," making the penalty carry more weight, just like the rest.

Regarding New Players, that isn't the main focus of the proposal, so I won't be taking that section into account.

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