Then lets get into that. Gunner heads are only two colors on the same model, that's it. For 3star up you get the same head, same colors. Only stats change. So why isn't there an armor with a more modern soldier mofit? Bombers look like Bomb squad guys, so why not a gun armor with a more modern military look? Maybe a Sniper look?

And another idea, why not extend the cylops helmet line into 5 star? It's popular with some people to wear since it's so unique looking and it does give a gun damage bonus, though to be honest I find it weird that the Cyclops which is what.. 0-1 stars and Shadow sun stetson is 5 stars and yet they both give the same low gun damage bonus. Only difference being armor rating.

To the OP:

The idea of being a gunner is that you reduce all risk of getting hit in melee, hence the lack of a damage buff with gunner armor.
Also, all 4 of my 5-star brandish swords only ever did one explosion, the change was much needed.

"the change was much needed."

Would you like it if your brandishes hindered you?

Personally I see buffing swords instead of guns ridiculous. It's hard to watch something like the well used brandishes get a buff over things like wild hunting blade in the first place. It's like the devs are working on mainstream weapons and armor to be the only used thing in the game.

Here is a nice list of what gunners need:

1. A 2 star gunner set. This also means coming up with new names for it.

2. Changing the graphics of the sets. This occurs with every other set in the game, so it shouldn't be a problem. In fact, there are even easy to implement suggestions that have given examples.

3. Make our gear in line with bombers and swordsman if you already nerfed our base damage. You do not have to completely milk it and give us terrible gear so we do not become overpowered, which now we are underpowered from all of these nerfs.

4. Deadshot gear. make it gunner specific. First of all, it completely implies that it is used by gunners. Second of all, swordsman and bombers do not deserve to take our gear and benefit from it when they already have enough benefitting sets, if not benefit from it more. Swordsman get a medium damage bonus to all shadow defense set. Why isn't ours medium to everything too?

5. Attention towards gunners. The recent patch was completely sword friendly for a great example. One less reason to be a gunner: Zombies and wolvers and retrodes are extremely easy to avoid.

So this is what I got from other people. At first I thought of us as unique and just fine, but now I can kind of see where everyone is going.

This thread isn't only supported and updated by happyapathy for one, and for two this is Spiral Knights. Not Wolver Knights. It'd be cool to have all of you guys heard.

Swordies get Asi and Dmg Medium on striker. Not low.

#60 "Would you like it if your brandishes hindered you?"

Guns don't hinder you.

#60 "Would you like it if your brandishes hindered you?"

Guns don't hinder you.

____________

I was talking about Wild Hunting Blade - people would say that it hinders you which is why you will see people using that to make a challenge in this game after the patch

ANYWAYS Make sent and AP pures there is too much support for that xO

PLEEEEAAASE you already mentioned it and completely ignored it

Now I'll give you that in a professional setting these kinds of things take time to change. There are cycles of ideas and testing that a game has to go through before a change can be made, and that can take months. And I'll give you that there are PR limits on what the devs can actually say. But this has been an issue for a long time.

At least tell us that you are considering the issue. Tell us that you aren't completely indifferent to the desires of the gunners who are devoted fans of your game. Either tell us that there are changes being considered for the future, or tell us that you think that gunning is fine as it is and doesn't merit changing. I think we at least deserve that.

I liek range.

... But I'm a cautious swordsman with a healthy dose of bombs and guns in my arsenal.

Gunning never felt like an option despite how much I loved mauling things in t1 with my trusty Autogun and a Voltech Alchemer (that I got scolded for using in IMF; not knowing about quicksilvers back then, oops). Antigua lines are delightfully fun to use, even if my aim is terrible. I found a Magnus in a treasure box and the charge amuses me endlessly even if I'd never use it against monsters.
I just do no damage with any of the things. :( Not to even mention the lack of starter gear...
Aiming is hard, dodging is hard when firing slows your movement, using a Vile Striker is honestly more viable in tier three than a gun loadout for me. Why. D:

Range is a lovely thing when you can avoid most hits. I mostly play ranged characters in the only other MMO I play, and mobility+being able to get airborne is why I find it very viable there. My corruptors get mauled if caught in a tight corner by a swarm of mobs. In Spiral Knights? There is no flying. There is a lot of small rooms and tight corridors.

I can grab underused swords and do okay. I can grab status and blast bombs and do fine. I get very, very hurt when I try to rely on guns other than Polaris for dealing with anything that isn't a row of polyps.
Gun puppies? Swordplz.
Howlitzers? Swordplz unless Candlestick hallways. LolPolaris again, or Argent Peacemaker for variety.
I prefer gunning polyps because they don't have any turning to do, but in tight spots with multiple? Swordplz.

Kats dodge (unless they're in their odd pausing state) and don't die fast enough.
Devilites dodge and don't die fast enough.
Wolvers dodge and used to not die fast enough, but with their nerf it's just patience bleh.
Greavers eat my bleeping face and don't die fast enough unless I lose half my health berserking the lot of them with my Barbarous Thorn Blade. x.x
Gremlins dodge and don't die fast enough, and even with my fancy UV'd Driver, new Acheron charge is absurdly better. In Deconstruction Zones I'm kiting and charging before releasing the charge at the most safe and efficient place I can get when using either. Acheron just outshines the Driver by absurd amounts.

Mecha Knights are a pain with their blocking and their vast amount of damage and their herd sizes in arenas. I used to spam Polaris at them until I got a Divine Avenger. Hello, sword that do it better with less work.
Retrodes? Yeah, I'll still spam Polaris at them if it's in a narrow area and they're trying to walk up to me. Any situation with room to move around, it's just dodging around them and dispatching them in a couple of slashes. Same exact thing with Lumbers; if a crowd of them is heading my way and I can't get behind them, Polaris spam.

Slimes/scuttlebots/zombies are lulz either way, but swords just deal so much more damage in so little time.

I'll faff about with inefficient equipment pretty much every day because it's fun and I love variety, but I would never go full gunner for anything properly challenging. It just isn't fast or safe enough to be viable. I prefer to play slowly and cautiously most days, but even I lose patience with guns, particularly ones that make me easier to hit.

I have more guns than I have swords, but all of them are sidearms to me - switches, mobs in spikes, hard-to-get-to turrets, stuff I feel like shooting at for fun.

I liek range. DA, Brandish lines and even BTB have pretty good range when needed and vast amounts of damage all the time. Why I no can has gun use without feeling like I'm faffing about for laughs? :(

Sorry, I must be thinking about something else when I wrote it.

This pretty much sums up how OOO doesn't love gunners, but loves swordsman.

Gunners, if they use two penta trinkets, can get medium damage at best.
Swordsman, if they use two penta trinkets, can get MAXIMUM damage at best.

There you go.

I'll be making a new character and roll guns on him to see how it goes - I'll test exactly how it goes being a beginning gunner and journal then make a forum thread on it so devs can see how hard it is / unappealing. Once I can afford the trinket slots, I will be going into heart trinkets and journal how unappealing it is to be gunner with heart trinkets due to our bad gear bonuses

2* gun set, make the 2* guns that have a crawl of a bullet speed faster! also a 2* magnus option

plus every other needed fix, like proper status resist and deadshot only guns and medium damage shadowsun

and we need a dev reply :,(

The devs are not fixing the game to please you. Be patient.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I love that line.

"Making nearly every enemies attack speed slower has drastically reduced the need for gunners as keeping your distance and timing your swings with a sword is less of an issue then ever, why bother shooting from a safe distance when you can now safely get up close and smack enemies for more damage? If anything this patch has ruined the gunners role."

Isnt it funny when youre on the ball though and totally outplay some (not all or most, just a few) swordies, you can almost feel them seething at you for getting killing blows. I notice this all the time. The better I play the more reckless they get and make an attempt at establishing dominance and usually they stick out their necks and it backfires.

/support, because swordsmen needed the holy trinity of defense all with blanket weapon bonuses in LD to accompany GF, Archon, and BTB.

~Lucas.

^ Obvious trolling

Copy-and-pasted post of mine from an earlier thread on exactly the same thing:

Why does every gunner complain that Deadshot gives a general boost? No one has ever told a gunner they can't use Valkyrie (fiend), Dragon Scale (beast), Deadly Virulisk (Slime), or Fallen (attack speed) armor; so I fail to see why meleers and bombers shouldn't use Deadshot. In fact, it seems rather selfish to want to restrict that set to one style of play. As far as I'm concerned, Deadshot is perfectly fine with the other armor sets that affect all weapons.

As for copy and pasting armor designs, that should be fixed/updated. It would be fair to buff existing gunner armors as well, but Deadshot needs absolutely no change.

@Knight-Solaire
its annoying because you have to make it from a gunner set. Wovler sets don't give any bonus to gunners and bomber sets don't either, so why should a gunner set give a bonus to everything?

Thats the thing, though. Valkyrie, Chroma, Dragon Scale; those are general purpose armors. Gunners are angry because one of the lines SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR GUNSLINGERS is a general purpose armor set, whereas Bombers and Swordsmen still have their 4 sets of armor dedicated to them and Gunners have 3/4 dedicated sets.

Not only that, the bonuses for the sets SUCK in comparison to the other gears bonuses (bonii?) or get an ASI bonus which is nigh worthless unless youre using a pulsar or something.

If/when ASI decreases reload time, I retract my statement on the bonus.

Hey, you there! You, enjoying yourself! Stop that at once!

Umm, Maeko, don't refer to the wiki for anything regarding anything except for swords. You can tell it is thrown up by wolver clones, total discrimination against gunners.

Let me show you from the gunslinger guide:

"Also note that one line of guns which have larger magazines are autofire, and require you to stand still and shoot the entire magazine which also leaves you vulnerable. "

Uhhh... no it doesn't?

"A gunslinger also has the advantage that many guns deal full specialized damage, which means more critical damage dealt from a gun."

Right... it deals more critical damage... more than a sword? What the heck is it being compared to here? If a critical from a gun deals 100 damage and the critical from a sword deals 123 damage regardless of it being half normal, then not only is it less but the gun critical being pure special will deal less damage on something resistant to that type (incase for some reason you accidentally shoot it at something which you shouldn't have, not anything intentional ever). So this is therefore not an advantage over anything...

"What this means is that reloading is the most vulnerable time for a gunslinger."

Charging and charge attacks would be the most vulnerable.

"With that in mind here is an example of how you could set up your controls to help you be an effective gunslinger:"

Following this was a chart that fails to mention that auto target MUST be hold shift instead of 100% uptime.

"shoot all but one bullet->pause->shoot all but one bullet->pause "

Shielding instead of just pausing not only looks (not confirmed being) faster, but also if you are hit by a projectile between your shield shots even when you are not shielding, some lag will sometimes make you shield the projectile regardless, or other attacks.

"Switch Weapon Space"

This was actually under controls. I find this to be bad, because the middle mouse up and down is going to help a lot. Learn which gun will switch to which gun when you move up or down on the mouse for every gun.

This way, when you take on say a gremlin, you can quick switch between a Callahan to knock down and the Umbra to finish it. That means Umbra to Callahan back to Umbra more easily. This also interrupts menders so more use than just gremlin levels. But there are other situations than just gunners.

With a space bar switch, you cannot control one of two guns you switch to, you are restricted to only switch to one gun.

"Generally the handguns that deal a single damage type are best to use. This is because if a weapon (like Silversix) does split elemental and piercing damage, it will only do 50% critical damage against enemies that are weak to elemental or piercing. "

This is vague and does not mention an AP's use against vana. The REAL reason gunners don't take antigua is because it does not have any utility or AoE, simply single target. And because it is an only single target oriented gun it is THEN not as useful because of its split damage. Not enough explanation. If an antigua actually had utility / good AoE then it would be taken regardless of its split damage.

" The Alchemer's charge can be priceless, when used properly. Whenever using its charge attack versus a large mob, try to aim towards the back of the group (or the center), not the front - this will allow the bullets to ricochet and hit the mobs with all the shots (5 rank Alchemers can split into up to 13 bullets, and hit enemies with every one of them, if those poor mobs are in ideal positions). "

You have down how to use it against large mobs (as in large crowds) but skipped over how to position it against single mobs like gun puppies to one shot them. Remember? This is a GUIDE.

"as this can enable you to deal double damage. "

This is referring to alchemers and proves that these are wolver clones who make a 3* alchemer and stopped there. You can clip a single normal bullet with an alchemer around 5 times being countable. That isn't called damage x2, that is damage x5. But that is a good scenario. Most scenarios anyone that has mild experience with an alchemer can at least triple their damage in AoE situations. Not double. And when I said clipping 5 times, yes, I was talking about between 2 monsters close together. Try it. If your alchemer isn't capable of doing that perhaps try upgrading it past 3* before you throw up a guide.

"In the end it might be a good idea to use a weapon that does split damage if you have just one or two weapon slots for guns"

Lol no. That would be called normal damage. Plus that leaves you without any utility / aoe. Valiance can deal more single target damage to the monsters that a split damage gun is the worst on, as well as have the knockback utility. Then look at supernova. Great survivability utility usable on anything.

And weaponry stops after alchemers! They could've had a weaponry explanation for each and every gun, including the specialized uses for the normal guns, but no. Lets stop after alchemers. (Ironic, because it is expected of a wolver clone to praise the Polaris and be done after trash talking alchemers).

"It does not affect the speed at which you reload your weapons. "

This is the cherry on top of the cake of FAIL

So pretty much never refer to the wiki for guides again - I know you got that from the wiki, because you can only get that type of information from a wolver clone. And wiki is wolver clone heaven.

You can at least respect us and say you aren't worth making a gunslinger guide? Discrimination is fine, I bet your opinion applies anywhere anyway, hmm?

Guess gunners need to do some wiki editing.