To better explain the situation to those raging, I will throw my hat in. Those of you throwing a tantrum, you have to view the previous system at which you were playing as a glitch. A glitch you were abusing to better yourself. By adjusting the payoff for FSC, this glitch is fixed and you are getting mad b/c you want to continue cheating like you were before. Now, you may say "Oh, but if it was put out there, it can't possibly be wrong!" NO. JUST NO. The rules of a progressive game is nothing concrete. A 4K payoff difference for KoA in comparison to The original FSC pay off is a glitch. You just happened to exploit it for your own pleasure. You abused a broken system that you KNEW, yes you knew, was broken. And if you didn't know it was broken, then you never completed a FSC run before now. And if that is the case, you, especially, have no place to complain. Players were working hard to gain what they wanted before the KoA mission release. You just got a quick freebee is all from exploiting a broken system. I know you're gonna rage against this. I know you're going to try and point out any flaw in my argument but with every point you make, I will know even more that what I said is true b/c I knew my aim. And that was to upset you and your way of thinking. Truth can be harsh but ignorance is a foolish joy.
Patch Notes - March 22, 2012 - weapon and economy changes
"Edit: *waits patiently for somebody to post tl;dr*"
I <3 the Firestorm Citadel fixes.
Also, I like how well-timed this all was, the valkyrie wing promo comes just in time to stop the CE from reaching 8,000 crowns, and its influence lasts just long enough for the payout nerf patch to come along.
Oh, a new one iron.
*saves*
Re: Spur-line
Not sure removing the forward impluse was necessary. Once I got used to the jumping around, I learned not to run into the bramble patch.
If anything, that attribute made the sword line quite unique and was useful for hitting enemies that were out of most swords' first swing range.
I agree with the First Strike of the Spur being Removed, too. It was Useful as a Guardian in Lockdown to Surprise Hit Strikers/Recons.
Now, your Guy Just Swings the Sword. No Fun. ;-;
i'm sorry, did ANY of you spend four years as an economic researcher?
I went to Jupiter, met a black monolith, saw some pretty lights, watched myself age rapidly and get reborn as a celestial being, and now I have the wisdom of the gods.
Your feeble four years of research on the economy doesn't compare.
Nick! Say it isn't so! Pushing everyone back is JUST what the Suda needs! It makes it totally worth it to smash crowds with...
I do suppose that it would make more sense... but I love shoving them all away., it just fits so well with the Suda.
~Tsu
sweet baby jesus ive been waiting for that troika buff.....
Sylvanius, your last comment was totally worth wading through all the rage.
Personal opinion: the Grey Feather line had its stun vulnerability removed. Maybe not a big deal, but I tend to think you'll see the ratio of Grey Feathers to Vog Cubs in FSC perk up a little. No one likes to be out of the action just because the ceiling fell on you.
The crown payout nerf makes me a little sad, I was loving my nightly solo FSC runs netting 12k cr for 40 energy. Too bad Punch basically lit all of those profits on fire with his garbage UVs he loves giving me. I swear Punch.... one of these days....
Also, is it just me or did they slightly nerf the amount of hearts that drop at FSC along with the crowns and heat? It certainly seemed like enemies and heart boxes weren't dropping the big hearts as often as they were pre-patch. It would make sense that since they decreased the amount of heat and cr the enemies/boxes drop, the heart drop multiplier would be affected too.
As far as I can tell the mission does payout slightly less than pre-patch clockwork FSC runs. It has been awhile since I did a run there, but I always remember making a solid 8kcr from clockworks FSC. So far out of the two runs I've done today in the FSC mission I've got 7.5k and 7.6k. Not a big deal though. When you figure in the 500cr entrance fee of the clockworks it would be equal net pay, so whatever.
Has anyone run the clockworks FSC mission yet? What's the payout there now?
Either way, whatever, it's still profitable enough to run d24-27 and buy 100ce with your earnings from 40 energy, so you'll see no rage from me. But I'll certainly miss those heady 12kcr days ;_;
I only want to semi-rage about one thing in this patch... let me type lol at the start of a sentence!!!
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/48164#comment-320015
Further proof for the people that are always yelling that the devs never listen. The emote change is going to get reverted.
~Gwen
Edit: The above is not intended at Judisu, just the people in general that always accuse the devs of never listening to the player.
@Judisu Now that you mentioned it, I did notice a lack of heart drops not just for KoA but for the Sovereign Slime mission as well. Now it may either be sheer bad luck that few hearts are dropped (which definitely does occur on occasion) but I definitely have been playing a lot more conservatively post-patch.
Anything that was intended By Nick and the Devs, that gets glitched, and then fixed, I'm not against, because it helps their plans along. I'm just going to be a little sad at the safety that this bug made...
Side note, Nick, when you fix the bug, mind making the stun strong? There are reasons, but i wanna keep this short.
~Tsu
@Damienfoxy
implying I have to play the stock market to understand how a market works
implying I need to study to make money
implying experience in futures, securities and learning from actuaries firsthand isn't as important
implying implications
Seriously though guys, be careful...OOO isn't just some brick wall you can yell at and be done with. They change accordingly, so just think before you suggest something *cough*pets*cough*
EDIT: YES I AGREE WITH MAKING THE STUN STRONG ON TROIKA CHARGE
If the brandish lines are strong, why not this one? All endgame status-enducing charges for swords should be strong, due to some difficulty of use.
I hate to complain since I've been looking forward to a balance update of some sort for a while, but I've two cents on the Spur line changes.
The mobility of the Spur line was unrivaled until the addition of Flourishes. Aside from the projectiles at 4*, it was the one thing that really set it apart from all other weapons. Now it moves just like any other three-strike sword. There were the times when I would use the sword's full combo inside a crowd of mobs, literally dancing from enemy to enemy and evading all their hits until they were all gone. I've heard of other players doing this with the Winmillion as well. However, I'm fairly certain that would be much more difficult to do with the new update.
Don't get me wrong; I'm glad the Spur line is finally getting the attention it deserves, especially since I've been using it since beta. However, I think the forward step on first swing should stay.
also, charge attack disc should be a moving vortexkthx
EDIT: Removed everything I've said about the swing arc change. From what I can tell now, it seems to be just fine.
I had just finished getting basic cobalt 5 star when missions came out, awarding the entire 5 star recipe tree. Then, just when I unlock King of Ashes mission, and I mean JUST, they knock it down 5,000 crown payout.
WHY
ME?
SON
OF
A
It isn't 5K. Its 7.5K-8K from what the posters are saying. So don't worry. You'll still be getting plenty. :u
I said knock it down 5K.
12K-5K = 7K
His point still stands.
At least people will stop ditching him at the last level to do another FSC-only run
Did you just make that?
About 3 Hours ago, yeah.
I'm looking forward to patching this. I made the Troika and Sudaruska in my quest to make all the decent swords; I was kind of hoping that they'd give them the Warhammer attacks....unless that's what they did :|
What I'm also looking forward to is when the devs come down hard on rudeness on these forums. I've had a little, and some that would have gotten me a warning in some other games I played, but the intense level of flameout out of some of these players is ridiculous, and really insulting. REALLY insulting.
also, Damien. Retarded is a term a lot of people consider derogatory. You prove your maturity with its use.
Again, Nick. I humbly ask for a Forum username mute. Asuka and Damien literally have nothing good to say, and I hate that they'd rather spit bile on the forums in some sort of weird projection coping strategy...so please add a forum function to make them go away forever.
But unlike Asuka, Damien's posts have no real point, nor any humorous sections. Its as if he truly believes what he's saying.
Asuka may be a tad Rude, but they Speak the Truth.
i didn expect this to come this quick
/cheer
If you like to believe unfounded conspiracy theories about how evil OOO is because *GASP* they're trying to make MONEY(!!!), then yes, Asukalan speaks the truth.
(Why do I get the feeling I'll get Conspiracy Keanu as a response somehow?)
Idk, Asuka brings up good points on stuff like nurfs and various changes ingame. Not saying that 100% of his posts are correct, or worth reading. But its always got that bit of truth in it.
So... it's pretty awesome how much I put into making my Shadowsun Slicker, so I'd have a good piece of piercing-resistant armor that went with my gun-heavy play style. Glad I got that finished a little while ago. I was glad to have some anti-piercing, especially since I already had two full anti-shadow sets and didn't especially need a third. I feel like that was time and energy well spent.
Unbinding a five-star item costs how much, again?
4k ce, not worth the unbind and sell for most people, since one can barely recoup the unbind price. And most people with the access to enough funds to buy from you know that they can craft their own shadowsun for less.
Shadowsun wasn't a good piece. If you wanted piercing, you went for justifier which gave more total bonus anyways...
I went with it because I wanted the damage bonus -- which, I will acknowledge, has gone up -- plus the piercing. It was a good combo for me. Now, entirely without warning, all of that effort: poof, up in smoke.
I get that a game can be rebalanced, and this isn't the first time I've seen my gear undergo a few changes. But this -- to completely change the primary aspect of something like this -- I don't know. I guess I'm not used to getting a raw deal quite to this degree.
I believe this thread is what you were looking for
And this thread provides some more reasonings on both sides.
@Lejerque
They changed the Antigua lines didn't they? An Argent Peacemaker used to be able to deal with fiends alright, and a Sentenza could hold its own against beasts. Both could do quite well on Vanaduke.
As for the FSC stuff... I'm alright with less crowns. I am NOT alright with less hearts. I'm willing to bet most of my crowns that the heart drop rate went down. Last time I fought Vanaduke, his Slags Guards dropped ONE heart per. They used to drop at least 2, most of the time 3 with several small ones. Heart Boxes are also only dropping one to two hearts per box, when they also used to drop at least two, most of the time 3 with several small ones.
Thank you for the direction. The points made there quite nicely sum up my feelings, and I shall post there instead. EDIT REDUX: Or, I guess I won't. I'd hate to be a ... necro bumper?
EDIT: @Traevelliath - Yeah. I had just made my Silversix when they decided to change that, too. I like this game, I do, and I'm glad to buy CE and evangelize it to my friends. But it's not easy when this keeps happening.
I did not link those posts to be necro bumped, just to give you the responses that people would have brought up against you.
You just happened to be using those items at a time when they were changing. This game doesn't really have a huge change in current sets, beside the antigua line, bomber armour, and gunner armour rehaul.
Hey, I just wanted to pop in to point out how totally right I clearly was about a week ago when I said this would happen. Woot. I'm awesome. I'm gonna go do a dance around the AH while talking to myself about how great I am. Devs made the right call and anybody who thinks otherwise is crazy. Now that you're done revamping that older content, how about the shadow lairs? Put all the game breaking crowns in there please.
I get that. I completely recognize that this isn't a dramatic overhaul for most of the game -- just a small portion. My problem is that, twice now, it's been my portion, and -- if you will forgive me paraphrasing a thread I oughtn't to resurrect -- it's tough not to feel like I sank all this time and money towards a specific goal, only to have the end result be something I don't have nearly as much use for.
I know that there probably aren't too many people who are negatively impacted by this change like I've been. I know that there is probably a very good reason, with regards to the overall balance of the game, to make these changes, and that keeping a game's ability to adapt and grow is vital towards its long term success. Heck, I don't even have any expectations of reparations, compensation, or any special treatment for my troubles. You can't make an omelette, life isn't fair, et cetera.
I just wish there were more I could have done about it. If this is the price I pay for not keeping track of changes that aren't forecast in the actual game, then so be it, I guess.
Do you guys think Basil runs will be worth while now?
Also, I think they should take out the minimap sprite locations in FSC, it just makes it harder to see other player positions.
I'm a bit late to the party.... am sick, and not exactly too pumped about life in general at the moment.
Anyway, I'm very happy about these. I've been +1ing these changes since before I can remember, and now they've finally happened... there are still more changes that I'd like to see, like the blast bomb reform, but this is quite a nice start.
For everyone complaining about these changes, that you wasted your time, think about all the people who bought and made recipes that were given out during the mission update. I lost around 50-60K cr worth in recipes by purchasing all the recipes in the blast bomb line... and your stuff just got buffed too, so please be happy. And guess what? This is a game about making gear. Given that all that happens once you've made all that you need is that you get to earn more gear(or accessories, if you're like that), why are we so hurried? I'd much rather see some of my gear made to not fit with my other stuff than have half the items in the game be almost unusable.
Yes, recipe runs are even more rewarding for the lucky. Why? Let me just give a practical example...
I want a Voltaic Tempest. So I go to the Auction House to see if the recipe is there:
The cheapest is 75,000 crowns...
If you can find some of the really good 5* Token item recipes, like the BTS, BTB, Voltaic Tempest, Polaris, etc, you can make HUGE profits.
@Trae: I got my Vt recipe for 28k as a bid a few weeks ago, some time after the last batch of missions came through. Got so lucky :3
But it really depends. Most 5* boss recipes are 40k+. And even though that people can run both fsc for approx the same amount, missions fsc is still easily accessible. And Basil being the troll he is, won't always have boss recipes on sale.
disappointed with the LOW ASI on the Deadshot
was hoping for MED ASI :(
You mean give it the same buff as the other two sets AND give it MED damage to Undead?
You're out of your mind.
~Sev
I can see there's really many players who don't like some patch changed. And mainly economical changes(maybe because it muct be changed not from lowing cr and heat drop. but from lowing ce prices(but we all know, OOO does not in any way directly influence the prices at the market)). Oh well, actually Vana mission still can give 6-7k crowns, so it still can be not so bad deal on that moment.
I still not sure that payout been changed correctly.
And I still need to sent few bugreports... DA works really bad, if use charge really close to wall. No any hit on high distance.
Also, looks like patch is not inflicted my armor and weapon. It's good or bad?
(p.s.: My first post on the forum, yay! I wonder how I can get avatar...)
Ok, completely disregarding Damienfoxy's off topic raging...
Several specialty sets got buffed. Skelly lost its Fire weakness which was the only thing keeping it from being very useful. Magic lost its Stun weakness which honestly wasn't that big an issue. Drake got some Poison resist, nothing too big but can be useful. And the big prize is that Chaos set lost its Stun weakness (Magic line change) and Sleep weakness *insert mad fit of giggles* and got CTR Low added to its Damage Low bonus. All very nice, especially Skelly and Chaos.
Gunners got some much needed love. Shadowsun went from sub-par to extremely nice by going from Low Gun Damage to Medium Gun Damage, turning its Poison weakness into resistence (which is still a little meh, but no complaints), and losing its Curse weakness which honestly was never an issue. The only thing I see some people having issue with is that it is now Shadow resist instead of Pierce resist. Justifier and Nameless both gained a status resist; Stun and Freeze respectively. And Deadshot gained something to make it actually feel like Gunner armor, a Gun ASI Low bonus to go with its universal Medium vs Undead bonus. Gunners should be very happy about this patch, and the previous Crimson Hammer addition which gave them a very nice new Helm.
Bombers didn't make out as well as the Gunners with only one change. Bombastic gained Freeze resist and, more importantly, its Bomb Damage bonus got increased from Low to Medium. While for PvE the set is still the black sheep due to no CTR bonus, in PvP it just became extremely viable for Recon Bombers. Very nice and long overdue. Bombers still need a viable Pierce and Shadow resist sets. Hopefully we will see them in the future.
Swords had some changes. Troika line swords and Thwack Hammer all had their charge buffed. This one I can not really give an opinion on as I don't use the Troika line, and my Thwack Hammer is just for PvP and doesn't have its charge used. The fact that the Troika line got buffed is making a lot of people happy though. The Spur line got changed some. Again, can't comment on it much as I don't use it, but no movement on the first swing sounds like it would make the line safer to use in cramped areas.
Economy changes. And here is where all the flaming/raging will come from. Various missions had their crown drop rate nerfed due to (obviously) giving too much, most notable ones are The Gauntlet and King of Ashes. The Gauntlet and KoA were expected by anybody with an ounce of common sense. KoA now gives about the same as a FSC run in the clockworks, Gauntlet now gives comparable payout for a Devilish Drudgery, Decon Zone, and an Arena. All perfectly fine in my opinion although others will argue. Over the next few patches crown/heat drop rates will be adjusted for all floors. "Adjusted" means buffs and nerfs, so will have to wait and see how things change... hopefully junk floors like Concrete Jungle and Treasure Vault will see their crowns buffed.
UI changes are a mixed blessing. The checkbox for exchange missions means people won't accidentally throw away their good items. Mac OS no opinion on as I don't use a Mac. The emote changes I really, REALLY don't like! I do not suppose there is a way to turn it off so what I type actually shows up instead of a random emote is there? Or if i put "/g :)" have it show up in Guild chat instead of Local?
Bugfixes are always good. Sprite fix is fine, the chat fix is greatly appreciated, and the Mecha Knight fix was expected.
Overall I think this is a very nice patch. Lots of things changed that people have been asking for, a couple surprise ones, and technical fixes.
~Gwen
Edit: *waits patiently for somebody to post tl;dr*
~Newg