Spiral Knights - Trip Mines?

Trip Mines?

20 replies [Last post]

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 13:43

Raisinfist

This is probably an incredibly stupid suggestion which I haven't thought through properly in some way, so I'll just throw this out there.

Trip mines: A bomb which has a small, rectangular blast radius. When placed, it takes time to arm, then, when armed and a monster walks over it, it does damage to them.

Now for the important bit: BALANCE.

So far, I have a few ideas:
1. A limited number of mines. This would mean that people would not be able to spam them like crazy. Mines are resupplied at an Arsenal Station or at the beginning of a level.
2. A 'cooldown' on mines - you have to wait (example: 30 seconds) after placing one in order to place another.
3. A massive damage decrease, to below the damage of other bombs.
4. (Courtesy of Sourix) A limit on the number of mines that can be placed at once - for example, you can only put down 3 at once, but if one is destroyed/you remove one using another attack with the bomb (Confused? Attack near the bomb while equipping the bomb to remove it), you can place another. Placing one over the limit will destroy the earliest laid mine.

Then, of course, balance in Lockdown.

Here are a few other guidelines for LD only:
1. Mines can be removed by being hit with any weapon - gun, sword, or bomb. Gun attacks will explode against it automatically, not go over it. AA applies to mines.
2. Mines will be filled when a player enters the spawn zone behind the mist barriers or dies, BUT all previously laid mines will be destroyed.

OK, so I'll throw that in. Please do not be kind and leave out any flaws you have spotted - constructive criticism appreciated - and I am planing to develop this into a fully working idea, not just a concept.

EDIT #1: Please bear in mind:
1. These are not offensive bombs; they are designed for defensive purposes, ie. covering your fleeing rear-end.
2. Only ONE of the options to balance the bomb in the Clockworks will be applied.

~Raisinfist.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 13:55

Little-Juances

small radius? limited numbers? cooldowns? decreased damage?

There's no reason to use them over regular bombs.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 13:56

Little-Juances

Might work to set upt traps

Might work to set upt traps on closed rooms but will only work against the first (easiest) wave of enemies. And mist bombs can already do that.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 15:32

Raisinfist

Some uses for the Tripmines:

1. To block off small entrances (for example: Doorways in LD for people who rush straight in)
2. To help to stop enemies entering a certain area - again, entrances - so that they will not be able to murder you/your party members etc. as quickly.
3. To murder Kats and Grievers (aka Bomber's Worst Nightmares).
4. To block off an entrance behind - see example below of the AI on Devilites - and, for a few laid down, to stop enemies catching up for a short time whilst running as fast as possible away - Danger Missions, anyone?

One reason why devilites are hard to deal with (not the main reason, though) is that they stay a certain distance from the player. Run away and they follow; run towards them and they run away. Therefore, putting a Mist bomb down and running away, through it, afflicts the Devilite with a status.

Why not have a viable DPS bomb for that strategy, not one which is a status-category bomb? Here, the Trip Mines could work for offense.

About the small radius:
The 'radius' of the bomb is actually just a narrow, long rectangle (1 square x 5 squares) which will be placed perpendicular to the direction which the player faces. This will then be able to effectively block the one entrance.

TBH, this is more of a LD- or defense-oriented weapon (who uses the Stun bombs in the Clockworks anyway?) than an offensive one - the main problem with bombs are that most cannot be used for defensive purposes. Mist bomb's cloud dissipates after 5 seconds, so it isn't much good for blocking an escape route. They aren't geared towards general-use DPS.

Sorry, Little-Juances, I should've said this earlier: The options at the top are not all to be used, just one (or maybe 2) of the ideas to stop people just having mindless bombs which always hit. Will edit the OP to add to this.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 15:34

Luguiru

Leetle boom

As part of my engineer stuff in that thread starting with this post I have something for turning bombs into motion sensitive mines in this post under "Landmine pad" from July 22, 2012. The item has other uses outside of turning charged and placed bombs into mines. Read to find out more.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 23:16

Nitez

*Cough* wut.

For Kats Sunshards, nitro, or any "well" placed bomb will work. For grievers... DBB nuff said end of story. Devilites DBB again
<(-.-<) ^(-.-)^ (>-.-)> done and dun.
ALSO decent concept... just needs more development.
My guess is Luguiru PROBABLY has something out there.
For trapping enemies and stuff nitro and "once patched" BAB should do the trick > BAB being a pushback nuke.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 01:26

Aureate

Processing Thoughts of You Always

DBB is fine for Devilites, but Greaver dashes move fast enough that you can't get the bomb charged in time to hit them, if you're taken by surprise.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 01:55

Fehzor

This could do wonders for lockdown matches if done right, and I can see a few ways it could work.

Sat, 08/04/2012 - 17:07

Blandaxt

i like this idea.

i like this idea because you can hurt an enemy without actually being next to that enemy. One thing that has to be part of it though is a way for enemy players in lock down to be able to identify and destroy the hidden mines. most ways enemy players will stumble into these traps is if they are hurrying and not paying attention of there surroundings.

Sat, 08/04/2012 - 19:46

Sourix

Pretty neat idea ^_^

It's not bad at all! However, I do have a suggestions:

Instead of a limited supply, how about a restricted amount of Land Mines that can be placed on the field? Like, say it could only place three active Land Mines at once, and in order to place more, they have to either a) be set off by an enemy or b) dismantled manually using the attack button.

"But what if you're right on top of a Land Mine while fighting an enemy?"

Simple. The bomb can only be dismantled if the Land Mine is your active weapon. Of course, they'll be a little pop-up indicating that you can remove it so that you don't accidentally dismantle it when you meant to lay down another Land Mine.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 03:27

#10

Gigaknowledge

Well I think this is a good

Well I think this is a good Anti-striker weapon for lockdown.
I think better if it instantly explodes upon contact and you can only place 3 mines at a time.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 13:49

#11

Hmmnm

Here is my idea of the perfect BAB mine:

BAB 5* mine:
First take BAB, and keep its ultra slow charge and walk speed. Also keep the blast radius and damage.
Make the bombs take a VERY long time to explode. With CTR Max, you would be able to put down up o 3 bombs before the first one explodes.
Add a trigger area, slightly smaller than the size of a 2* blast bomb. If any enemy walks into that area the bomb immediately explodes.
Lastly, give it a good chance to cause strong fire.

Uses in PVE:
The long and slow charge time is balanced out by its predictability and damage.
Good for people who like to plan ahead.

Uses in PvP:
An unpredictable damage bomb.
Guardians can safely remove them.
Recons can slip past them.
Strikers will hate them.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 23:14

#12

Blandaxt

i dont agree

why make it take a long time to explode and how big should the blast radius be?

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 03:19

#13

Diamondshreddie

this

exactly the kind of idea i want the irontech to adopt.

but i think you went overkill on the debuffs, how bout this:

-Limit: Maximum Bombs On map= Star level (5* bomb, 5 mines placed max)

-Placement: Instantly place one by clicking attack!! but there is a slight cooldown until you can place another

-Radius: At 5* the radius for each bomb should look like the radius of a regular 3* blast bomb.

-Damage: The damage table should be sort of between 4* and 5* blast bombs, yeah call me crazy but hang on.

-Overlapping: yes, overlappig re-applies the damage, but mind you how long will it take to place all 5 bombs? Not instantly for sure.

-Detonation: Simple, Just hold the attack button like any sword or gun to use the charge attack, which trigers your beautiful bombs to ASPLODE!... INSTANTLY!

_Quick Elaboration Info_

the delay between placig bombs should be about 0.8 seconds, making all 5 bombs take around 4.5 seconds to place.

the charge time to detonate should probably be like that of a mist bomb, a bit slow, but nothin too much. lets say its 1.5 sec at max ctr

walk speed should stay the standard while charging a bomb

Knockback should be moderate, but should not stack when bombs overlap!

Damage dealing around 180 damage per-bomb at depth 27 in 2.3 sec adds up to ~ 900 damage in 11.5 sec ... that cant be right, and its not!! sorry, i multiplied the charge time 5 times, hold on. k. its 900 damage per 6.5 seconds ...... k i think we need to bump up the damage a little or somthing, anyways.

you get the picture, it would be for from OP, great for danger rooms, arenas, and LD cap points.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 10:45

#14

Raisinfist

Diamond...

Please don't hijack my thread.

OK, first things first:

@Blandaxt: In LD, bomb radii show up (for the enemy's bombs) as bright red, as with this, hopefully. This means that people will see it if they are going slowly (ie. not striker dashing) and, as detailed earlier, be able to remove them. This is how to stop it completely blocking a passageway.

@Sourix: I like that idea. I think I'll edit the OP to put that in, if you don't mind.

@Hmmnm: Sorry, what? The point of this bomb is to block off entire corridors. If the bomb has a smaller blast radius which a Striker could go around, that defeats the purpose of your bomb - the idea behind the bombs which I had was to stop anything getting through without getting damaged and knocked away.

@Diamond: This isn't a thread about bomb to set off at will. This is a thread about a bomb that sets off on first contact with anything. Also, please keep your ideas to your own thread - don't just copy/paste it into my thread as well.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 12:19

#15

Blandaxt

hmm

i like diamonds idea. although he was wrong onn how you can detonate the bomb, most of his ideas seemed reasonable. :)

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 13:47

#16

Hmmnm

Ah... ok

I was thinking of a completely different mine idea, an offensive damage bomb to take care of sword users. Sorry.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 14:26

#17

Hmmnm

Problems with

1. Bombs generally work by charging them up before placing it down. How about this: you have to first charge up the bombs, and when the player finishes charging, the players keeps the charged bombs instead of putting it down. Then the player can put down a certainnumber of charged mines with no delay before the player has to recharge.

2. Red blast radius on the floor makes bombs too easy to see. Even if you are dashing.

In terms of defensive abilites, this bomb is really overshadowed by mist. Would you be willing to consider offensive mines?

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 17:53

#18

Blandaxt

i dont know.

usually the game is situationed where the player has to charge his weapon and use it right there. not keep the charge and walk around without and weaknesse to the charged weapon like slow moving and other stuff. so im not sure this is a good idea.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 18:35

#19

Sourix

@Hmmm

"1. Bombs generally work by charging them up before placing it down. How about this: you have to first charge up the bombs, and when the player finishes charging, the players keeps the charged bombs instead of putting it down. Then the player can put down a certainnumber of charged mines with no delay before the player has to recharge."

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Makes Land Mines more like bombs and makes them more balanced.

Sat, 04/20/2013 - 12:40

#20

Sandy-Knight

Stumbled on this thread.

N-N-N-NECRO!

I think it's OK to bring this back up for the wealth of knowledge here.

The main advantage this would have over any kind of Mist bomb is the fact that they will not disappear for a long, LONG time.

So, to implement it:
-Short charge times
-Short/medium fuse times
-Will not detonate until an enemy goes into it's blast radius
-Can be removed if any enemy attacks over it (and gunners can do this if they are next to it)
-Only 3 can be placed at a time. If any more are placed, the oldest mines will detonate (harmlessly).
-Fairly narrow rectangular blast radius, placed perpendicularly to where the player was facing when they drop the bomb.

Some general prototype ideas:
1. A Blast-esque bomb which will blow enemies in the direction which the player was facing ONLY, thereby giving the bomber a few extra seconds to prepare for an attack.
2. A small Freeze/Stun/Shock mist in the radius, which will last the ordinary time.
3. A bomb which will pull enemies into a vortex, then will Freeze them in the centre. Kinda like a Freezing smart Electron Charge.

Thoughts?

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Trip Mines?