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Why you numbskulls should stop complaining about the forge, and why this update is so great: A Summation

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Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:02
Venomousbiohazard's picture
Venomousbiohazard

For years, the entire community (and critics as a whole) could agree on one thing, and that was that mist energy was a frustrating business. As a F2Player, I'd constantly be worried about leaving the game (and losing my mist as a result) or of how much profit I was making per mist energy spent. Instead of having fun and actually exploring the clockworks, players simply grinded through FSC over and over again until they realized just how boring it was and leave the game. If you became tired of that, you only had three options: leave the game, play LD, or merch in Haven. I opted for the first option about a month ago, and only returned when this update was announced.

First, the pets: Well, they are what they are, pets. Not just any cosmetic pets, but ones that you could feed your useless materials to. Minerals also play an important role in the game, instead of just being collected and deposited in the arcade. A much needed material/mineral sink. Now you actually get excited when you find 4*-5* mats. Also, you have the attacks/buffs/debuffs of your pet at your disposal, encouraging more teamwork and augmenting playstyles.

The revival system: instead of playing 5 CE with every death and then a rapidly increasing fee to pay, you have life sparks and emergency revives. Emergency revives are completely free, and you receive one with every level that you progress through. Amazingly charitable... Until you realize that after you die a second time, you'll need to use a life spark to revive. Your party members cannot simply give you 1/2 of their HP to get you ticking again. Life sparks are required, and you won't receive any drops unless you get off your butt and start killing monsters once more. But never fear, life sparks are just as common as tokens, and you'll never run out of them unless you really, really suck at playing the game. Even if you do run out, you can just leave the party and try again someplace else. You don't have to worry about the lack of mist, hooray! But if you do need to buy life sparks, they are 5E apeice. Still pretty nice, considering that the old system worked like this: First rev, 5E. Second rev, 10E. Third rev, 20E. Fourth, 40E, etc etc. So the revival system is quite charitable, in comparison to the old.

Crafting: To all those who used to play SK, they'd wonder "If we don't use CE anymore, then what do we use to craft gear? The answer? Orbs, of course! Instead of paying CE for items, you have to use orbs. And what are orbs? They are used to craft items of a certain level, and only that level. CE was universal, but orbs... Aren't. You'll need certain orbs for certain levels of gear. And where do you find them? Basically anywhere, and at a rate that is quite low. Low, but not too low that you'll be forced to pay Energy for them. Different orbs drop at different levels, with the 3* orb being found in T2, etc etc. For those that complain about these orbs, I have three words for you: Deal with it. Firstly, the orbs are quite easily farmed, and even if you aren't looking for them you'll find them. I've been playing T3 and I have 16 5* orbs. No problem to find them, no problem at all.

Mist Energy Removal: Ahhhh, undoubtedly the best part of this update. Finally, the mist system that everyone hated is gone! Gone, hoorah! And yet.. Amazingly.. There are naysayers. Some even want the ME/CE system back, and why? Because of the Forge.

The Forge: Yes, this is the certain part of the update that divides the entire community. There are two sides, those that proclaim that the forge is an abomination that must be expunged from the game, and those that think that the forge is a necessary evil. I take the latter side. First, I should explain what the forge is: instead of leveling up automatically with heat like we normally did, you have to use the forge to progress to the next level. To power the forge, you'll need heat crystal thingies that operate in the same way as those crafting orbs do. If you are leveling a 4* item, you'll need 4* crystals, which you will have to find in the earlier levels tier 3, and if you are leveling a 5* item you'll need to progress deeper in T3 to find. The crystals aren't that rare, especially if you know which depths you need to go to. But you need plenty of them if you want to have a 100% success rate of leveling up your gear. There are three differing amounts of crystals that you can deposit, and each gives you a certain success rate, which is normally 20% for the first amount, 70% for the second amount, and 100% as the third amount.

As if to make up for the annoyance of the forge, you have a chance to receive special rewards when leveling up your item, whether it be damage, skipping two levels, or receiving a forge lockbox that requires no key (you can only receive that bonus if you deposit the 100% amount of crystals). These bonuses can really help make your equipment more powerful. For those that constantly whine about how many crystals they are receiving, you are either in the wrong tier, are playing at too low a difficulty to get any good drops, or simply keep trying out the forge at 20%-70% success rate, which is what you should never do. Don't forget that if you replay missions, you won't find as many crystals/orbs/life sparks. Also, remember that developers need to eat, and make a bit of money too, so something has to replace the ME/CE system, and that is the forge. If you know how it works, you'll just understand that it is a necessary evil, and actually can be very rewarding. You can't expect to be spoonfed, though. You simply cannot have CE/ME being removed without a sacrifice, and that had to be heat.

Difficulty levels: Yes, the long awaited difficulty levels! Now we have three levels to choose from: Normal, Advanced, and Elite. Each level increases the drop rates, crown payout, and most importantly, the HP and Damage of mobs is increased. With each difficulty level that you decide to adventure on, you have to remember that the difficulty level between Normal and Advanced isn't all that much, but the drop rates are.. . Uncharitable on Normal Mode. On Elite, you'll definitely notice that the difficulty level is actually challenging, especially with enemies like dust bunnies and scarabs. Fortunately, the crown/drop payout will definitely show if you play on elite.

Reviving a dying game: As Neodasus pointed out, there didn't seem to be anything to do once you hit the endgame, unless it was to play lockdown or just play FSC over and over. Besides this, the game had just become too easy for those that had become experienced with the game. Twiddle dee dee, twiddle dee dum, I could play any level while in a coma. The elite mode changed that. The arcade was also more dead than Michael Jackson, and the update changed that. Heck, now I play on Arcade mode most of the time, simply for fun, the droprates, and the coop. Also, the pets have given us a new way to play the game, adding a lot more possibility to the gameplay.

Our playerbase on Steam alone has TRIPLED, as Mtax pointed out:

"Look how it was before update: http://s20.postimg.org/s88lrinst/top.png
How it is now: http://store.steampowered.com/stats

All of these aforementioned updates were suggested by the community, save the forging system. The devs listened to your suggestions and masterfully delivered, and now all you can do is whine about it.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:22
#1
Saharaan's picture
Saharaan
Everyone loves watching bars increase.

When it comes right down to it, the issue of the forge is an irrational one. People on either side have their rational arguments, but barring very few people, they won't be swayed to the other side. The fact is, there was a subconscious connection of effort to reward when you raised heat enough to fill the bar and it leveled with a flash and celebration. It was something you put work into, and something that you could very clearly see the payoff of. Now that you have to forge it, the subconscious connection of effort to reward is broken, due in part to the fact that you have to rely on random fire crystal drops. It's basic MMO compulsion 101, and I'm surprised that OOO might not have game designers that consider things like this.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:30
#2
Warp-Master's picture
Warp-Master
@OP

You forgot the part about your party members not wanting to help you after you die because it would mean "wasting" one of their Sparks. That's a bad thing, because it reduces teamwork.

You're spot on with the rest of this, though. inb4 cirno whines about the forge again

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:29
#3
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
Silly, Silly

It's as if you're BEGGING me to come to this thread.

Ofc, as some of you may already know, I am the Jehova's Witness of wanting to remove the ridiculousness that is the Forge. And ofc, that is the only reason I am here. Some of you may think I'm a loon. Which is correct. Do carry on. A significant amount support me, though.

For those lucky few who haven't read my forum-famous rants yet:
If you've looked through the suggestions and General SK threads before in the past few hours, you'll most likely have seen my rants about the Forge and how ridiculous it is. This is 100% true. You are now up to speed.

Let's look at this, shall we?

Yes, this is the certain part of the update that divides the entire community. There are two sides, those that proclaim that the forge is an abomination that must be expunged from the game, and those that think that the forge is a necessary evil. I take the latter side.

Although this is biased of me to say, I can't help but say that I want to present you a Darwin award, but we don't have a level that clarifies the volume of this decision enough.

---

The crystals aren't that rare

Those of you who know me know exactly what I am going to say here: I have done (elite, because people tend to think there's other difficulties (don't know why this is (will touch on this later))) stratums 5, 6 and EFSC run a lot in the past few days I have been back from my 2 year inactivity. On average I get 4-13 crystals, 10-22 during EFSC runs.

They ARE that rare. The only ways you can hoard crystals are to either buy them from the AH (from people that have done the last two of this list), bought them from the supply depot, or hack the drop rate.

---

But you need plenty of them if you want to have a 100% success rate of leveling up your gear.

This multiples the power of my last statement.

---

There are three differing amounts of crystals that you can deposit, and each gives you a certain success rate, which is normally 20% for the first amount, 70% for the second amount, and 100% as the third amount.

See previous statement.

---

For those that constantly whine about how many crystals they are receiving, you are either in the wrong tier, are playing at too low a difficulty to get any good drops, or simply keep trying out the forge at 20%-70% success rate, which is what you should never do.

simply keep trying out the forge at 20%-70% success rate

http://i.imgflip.com/2x0pr.jpg

---

Also, remember that developers need to eat, and make a bit of money too, so something has to replace the ME/CE system, and that is the forge.

Well the developers clearly express no desire to eat or constitute themselves if they're not going to look after their players.

---

If you know how it works, you'll just understand that it is a necessary evil, and actually can be very rewarding. You can't expect to be spoonfed, though. You simply cannot have CE/ME being removed without a sacrifice, and that had to be heat.

I know how it works. It's a last moment quickly thought of 5 minute idea to counter the energy removal. I understand that it is evil, but not neccessary.
And it it not rewarding. They have turned something painless and quick into something stressful and frustrating. This is bad game design at it's peak level. A reason why the developers who came up with this should not keep their jobs.

---

All of these aforementioned updates were suggested by the community, save the forging system. The devs listened to your suggestions and masterfully delivered, and now all you can do is whine about it.

save the forging system
all you can do is whine about it.

Ah devs, you and your passion for coming up with ideas worse than the US. (And I don't say many things, if any, are worse than the US).

---

Besides this, the game had just become too easy for those that had become experienced with the game.
The elite mode changed that.

I must be too experienced, I can't imagine a mode easier than elite.
...Tutorial mode?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:33
#4
Juances's picture
Juances

The progression between heat level should take less jumps in quantity.
Fire crystals are common, but why do I need 90? Can't we reduce that to 45 and reduce the drop rate?

Take orbs for example, they are rarer but you only need 3.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:45
#5
Everlas's picture
Everlas
no !!!! we should complain

no !!!! we should complain stupid and it should be removed i demand that people should complain about this so the devs will bring back the old heat system

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 14:47
#6
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
may I?

as usual.
again, crystals are not rare. I don't know how the crap you got up with those numbers. average elite FSC is 25 crystals, specifically 20-28.

Well the developers clearly express no desire to eat or constitute themselves if they're not going to look after their players.

you really want to get people angry, don't you?
"looking after the players"(going backwards): mist removal, pets, guild hall, lore, LD, BN. enough of this.
OOO devs love the game. they listen to suggestions. you can see that in the things stated above, or in the coliseum section which has less than a year of age.you can see it in the countless dual wielding suggestions crushed to the ground. you are complaining about one aspect thay changed, and that repalced the ce grind. it's obvious you have to grind for it. as much as you have to do mineral runs, you do crystal runs. now, the great question:
would you please explain what is wrong with the forge instead of "all you can do is whine about it."?
oh, and yes. you are too experienced. you are so much experienced you can't stand change.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:02
#7
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
@ Cirnothebaka LOL

I read the first part in your little post. 4-13 crystals in a depth 18-29 run? You're either lying, skipping things, or just doing it wrong. I come out of those with upwards of 30 a run.

You get practically free crafting, a new HUGE and awesome (imo) feature, free elevators, and all you can do is complain. Heck, they're even giving you a box with stuff in it everyday for JUST LOGGING ON. From what i've seen, most people are content with the Forge as is. Its harder to heat stuff now, but its a fair trade off for everything else we got. You're not in the majority here

Stop being lazy, play the game, shut up and enjoy.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:12
#8
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
no you may not, get lost

again, crystals are not rare. I don't know how the crap you got up with those numbers. average elite FSC is 25 crystals, specifically 20-28.

...by actually doing stratum rums, check how many crystals i got on each run, then doing the math?

---

you really want to get people angry, don't you?

no, you're getting angry at my frustration. just because i feel that something is wrong does not mean i want people to get angry. if you get angry, that's your choice.

---

"looking after the players"(going backwards): mist removal, pets, guild hall, lore, LD, BN. enough of this.
OOO devs love the game. they listen to suggestions.

yes. then they come up with something that upsets players.
(note how you said love the game and not the players)

---

you can see that in the things stated above, or in the coliseum section which has less than a year of age.you can see it in the countless dual wielding suggestions crushed to the ground. you are complaining about one aspect thay changed, and that repalced the ce grind. it's obvious you have to grind for it. as much as you have to do mineral runs, you do crystal runs.

...what... is a mineral run.
also, what's the point of doing a crystal run if i get hardly any crystals?

---

would you please explain what is wrong with the forge instead of "all you can do is whine about it."?

...I have, and I will repeat it here for good measure, in simple terms (you can't seem to understand proper terms)
The crystal drop rate is too unbalanced for people. Some people say they get like 20-28 in a run, which I don't believe due to my 4-13 in a run.
The amount of crystals chosen for the minimum level of crystals needed to be used for a level up are too large, and different for each item of the same *.
The percentage of success is too low. If the amount of crystals chosen for the minimum level of crystals is going to stay the same, then at least increase the minimum to 60%, the medium to 100% and the maximum for the bonuses (the bonuses would have slightly more chance)

---

oh, and yes. you are too experienced. you are so much experienced you can't stand change

jealousy does not make for a good argument.

---
=EDIT=

I read the first part in your little post. 4-13 crystals in a depth 18-29 run? You're either lying, skipping things, or just doing it wrong. I come out of those with upwards of 30 a run.

I'm serious. That is how many crystals I get from a run. Now for the expected counter:
I read your post. upwards of 30 crystals in a depth 18-29 run? You're either lying, buying them from the supply depot/AH and saying they're from the run (which is basically lying), or just hacking. I come out of those with 4-13 on average a run. Have you not considered the fact that there are people in this world with less luck/noskill than you?

---

You get practically free crafting, a new HUGE and awesome (imo) feature, free elevators, and all you can do is complain.

We're not allowed to express our opinion on things that are wrong with the game? If you say so.

---

Heck, they're even giving you a box with stuff in it everyday for JUST LOGGING ON.

Probably so no-one notices the drop rates and everything else is broken. Also this is temporary. And this box of stuff does not help our gear or gameplay progress at all.

---

From what i've seen, most people are content with the Forge as is.

From what i've seen 80% of the world are not correctly educated.

---

Its harder to heat stuff now, but its a fair trade off for everything else we got.

Fair.
That's like saying there is such thing as a free country.

---

You're not in the majority here

...But I'm a player of the game. Does not being in the majority completely invalidate my opinion?
This certainly invalidates yours.

---

Stop being lazy, play the game, shut up and enjoy.

Because complaining about a serious problem with something is lazy. This is like saying all politicians are slobs because they keep wanting to repeal everything.

You are an extremely bad troll with no respect for other people (I can talk). Good day, sir.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:07
#9
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
i need to get a gage on

i need to get a gage on something. How long exactly have you been playing SK?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:11
#10
Juances's picture
Juances

"...by actually doing stratum rums, check how many crystals i got on each run, then doing the math?"

You're over complicating it. Just look at the report screen when you return to Haven :P
What do you need the math for? There are no operations involved.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:16
#11
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Ndognine56.4 in the last

@Ndognine

56.4 in the last two weeks (which is since i've come back)

and 686 hours in total.

@Juances
You know, I completely forgot about that. I will use that now.

EDIT: What do you need the math for?

...to find the averages. Are you sure you even read my post?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:14
#12
Rating's picture
Rating
LOL 4-13 on a 18-29 run on

LOL 4-13 on a 18-29 run on elite? Everyone in every party I've been in has averaged 30-55 on 18-29 on elite (depending on how many treasure vaults and danger rooms we get).

You're doing something wrong.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:16
#13
Shotjeer's picture
Shotjeer
personal attacks dont work either

I didn't read your entire wall of text, but I am sure it's what everyone else is talking about. Sure, the forge is incredibly annoying and encourges endless grinding, but I hope you know why they did it. If you don't, it's because to slow progression ingame, as now mist is removed, progression would rocket. People would finish the game in around a wekk, provided with a good amount of time. So it's up the the community; would you rather have mist back, and have people wanting to do 10 levels per day, or keep the forge, and have endless gameplay 24/7?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:20
#14
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
well, i meant more in how

well, i meant more in how long have you had the game...i'd stop saying your "experience" is making you, whatever.
I have 1608+ hours of "Experience" in SK. thats, what, almost 3 times as much as you?

Pretty sure you're just a lazy player that wants everything handed to them.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:20
#15
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
Ah, this is going to be fun.

Ah, this is going to be fun. Let's turn this thread into an 'Let's insult baka because we don't like her opinions!'

---@rating

LOL 4-13 on a 18-29 run on elite? Everyone in every party I've been in has averaged 30-55 on 18-29 on elite (depending on how many treasure vaults and danger rooms we get).

You're doing something wrong.

Like what? I'm not you? Sorry about that. I'll make sure I get born correctly next time.

---@shotjeer

I didn't read your entire wall of text

I didn't either, it's ok.

---

Sure, the forge is incredibly annoying and encourges endless grinding, but I hope you know why they did it.

I would say, but you would say I took it off your post.

---

People would finish the game in around a wekk, provided with a good amount of time.

One does not simply 'finish' an MMO.
---

So it's up the the community; would you rather have mist back, and have people wanting to do 10 levels per day, or keep the forge, and have endless gameplay 24/7?

Mist can go to hell. Forge needs to be reworked/replaced. Who said I wanted the forge removed? *insert the four people who saw me say this*

Please can someone with an actual sense of conversation reply to this thread? It's getting boring being the only one.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:23
#16
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
--- well, i meant more in how

---

well, i meant more in how long have you had the game...i'd stop saying your "experience" is making you, whatever.

No. Just because I do have some actual amount of playtime (but inferior to yours) does not make you my mother. Shoo.

---

I have 1608+ hours of "Experience" in SK. thats, what, almost 3 times as much as you?

And how much of this was spent idling? Wait, don't answer that.

---

Pretty sure you're just a lazy player that wants everything handed to them.

No, I just like fair gameplay. Forge is not fair.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:25
#17
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
You can play as much as you

You can play as much as you want, got a free pet, and then you're complaining about fair? Its a balance to being able to run as much as you want. If they didn't have it in place, people would all hit 5* within a week or 2.

You can hate it as much as you want, but its not going away. I said it before, you're the minority here. We all don't mind it.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:29
#18
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
You can play as much as you

You can play as much as you want, got a free pet, and then you're complaining about fair? Its a balance to being able to run as much as you want. If they didn't have it in place, people would all hit 5* within a week or 2.

It's a sin to complain something is unfair when it is. K.

---

You can hate it as much as you want, but its not going away. I said it before, you're the minority here. We all don't mind it.

So you're the majority? You're that fat?
What? With the blatant attacks you were making I had to defend myself .-.

---

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:34
#19
Juances's picture
Juances

It's hard to thrust someone from Team ⑨ with anything that has numbers.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:34
#20
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
You're too stubborn to argue

You're too stubborn to argue with. I've done what i can here. Just, do me a favor, and keep your complaints to the suggestion forums?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:35
#21
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Ndognine Too stubborn? I

@Ndognine

Too stubborn? I think you mean correct, little kid.

@Juances

It's hard to thrust an Apollo rocket. Do I tell everyone that?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:36
#22
Rating's picture
Rating
The problem lies in the fact

The problem lies in the fact that it was way to easy to heat up gear way too quickly. Progression needed to be slower, and even with the removal of mist energy it was still a good idea to slow down heat progression.

People rage now because they know how easy it was in the past. If OOO could have established this from the start there would have been much less resistance from the vocal forum minority.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:40
#23
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Rating I'm not saying it

@Rating

I'm not saying it should be removed and kept removed

I'm saying it should be rethought.

Why can't you people understand this simple notion?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:46
#24
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
Okay, now you're trying to

Okay, now you're trying to piss me off.
You provide experience/evidence.
We provide counter experience/evidence that show your's to be different then most of ours.
You say you're more experienced and therefore are right
I prove that I have more experience
You complain that its unfair
I give you the reason that it is fair
Now you complain that we're not understanding.

You're complaining because you want to complain/you want attention.

also, on the little kid bit. Adults try to accept change, little children complain until they get they're way.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 15:58
#25
Rating's picture
Rating
I understand that's what

I understand that's what you're saying, and I'm trying to tell you that I think it was done correctly and is necessary as is.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:03
#26
Kupoo's picture
Kupoo
Just putting this out there

I just went through a single depth and got 12 crystals. And no, this was not a Treasure Vault or a boss stratum; this was the first D19 Haunted Passage I found when logging on today, in which I did a quick run through to see what I would get.

I read your post. upwards of 30 crystals in a depth 18-29 run? You're either lying, buying them from the supply depot/AH and saying they're from the run (which is basically lying), or just hacking. I come out of those with 4-13 on average a run. Have you not considered the fact that there are people in this world with less luck/noskill than you?

Treasure chests drop around 3 crystals each, if they contain crystals. This is claiming that out of the dozens of treasure chests you find in an entire tier, not even a single stratum or a single depth, you find a grand total of two that contain crystals. Either you're lying, or just avoiding chests. I got six out of my very first group of boxes.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:01
#27
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Ndognine Okay, now you're

@Ndognine

Okay, now you're trying to piss me off.

Don't keep replying if you're getting agitated by truth. It's your choice. No-one is making you reply.

---

You provide experience/evidence.
We provide counter experience/evidence that show your's to be different then most of ours.
You say you're more experienced and therefore are right
_I prove that I have more experience_

No, you said you have more hours than me. Those hours could be socializing, coliseum things and guild stuff. Playtime =/= Experience. Of course, this then devalues my statement, but if you're saying your hours are superior, therefore your experience is superior, and I have just stated why this could be incorrect, who is going to be more likely to be correct?

And furthermore, you said how many hours you had and said they were 3x mine. For all we know, you could have multiplied my hours by 3, then given or taken a few hours.

---

You complain that its unfair

Yes, I am complaining that a feature of the game is unfair. What part of this needs to be clarified?

---

I give you the reason that it is fair

'Because I and a group of other people like it and you and your group of other people like it, but our group of people that like it is superior to your group so we're right'
...Very good reason. Do continue.

---

Now you complain that we're not understanding.

Refer to previous statement.

---

You're complaining because you want to complain/you want attention.

If you say so. I have stated enough times that I don't like this (and other people don't like it too). I don't feel I need to state this again.

---

also, on the little kid bit. Adults try to accept change, little children complain until they get they're way.

This is practically a stereotype. People accept or don't accept change based on their personality, like wise with complaining as you said.
Now unfortunately for you I am doing neither. I am complaining about a change that has effectively ruined the game for people.

---

I do believe that is checkmate.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:13
#28
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

@ Cimothebaka

I loot 40 to 60 Radiant Fire Crystal per EFSC

I loot 40 to 60 Shining Fire Crystal per T3 Stratum 5 run, can be upwards of 70 thanks to treasure vault

I loot 20 to 40 Glowing Fire Crystal per JK/RT run and I'm pissed by it...

Those are my numbers after 10+ runs on each bosses.

You play Normal, it's easily farmable, I stand upon 140+ sparks of Life and even w/o 100 I could do well... The Forge is awesome and make people run Arcade again, it literally revived this old way of playing, which is awesome.

Now stop crying about it and start playing Elite for once

Edit: I stand on top of my 1926 hours game-time when first starting on 26th July 2011. Whatever that experience means to you. I seen the birth of PvP and accessories if that grants double xp

If you really play 50 hours per week on Elite then you wouldn't complain about fire crystal and be swimming in them... literally... OOO even dropped the rate cause we were drowning

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:08
#29
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
Oh good, more kids. Come

Oh good, more kids. Come come, bring your kids to forum day.

@Rating

That's your opinion. It's not instantly made a fact just because several other people agree with you.

---

Oh, someone who knows their bark. Do you bite?

@Kupoo

Treasure chests drop around 3 crystals each, if they contain crystals. This is claiming that out of the dozens of treasure chests you find in an entire tier, let alone a single stratum or a single depth, you find a grand total of two that contain crystals. Either you're lying, or just avoiding chests. I got six out of my very first group of boxes.

I love how everyone says I'm lying as if I'm making this up.

This post defeats itself. Let me tell you why:

It explains how there is a small chance that this could be possible, then denies such a thing purely because the chance is too small.
Except, this chance is not impossible. Therefore it is possible. And if it is possible, then someone will/_will have already_ experienced this possibility. This is just a case of the will have already option. You clearly don't like this, and flag it up as something wrong. I can tell you that this abysmal amount of luck is legit.

And this then empathises itself with the other things I said about the Forge (percentage rates, etc.)

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:14
#30
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

Treasure chests drop around 3 crystals each

I've seen one drop 8 and 2 spark of life, it's random, RNG is RNG. You can't predict and say "treasure chest drop around 3 crystal each" they just don't...

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:18
#31
Kupoo's picture
Kupoo
It explains how there is a

It explains how there is a small chance that this could be possible, then denies such a thing purely because the chance is too small.
Except, this chance is not impossible. Therefore it is possible. And if it is possible, then someone will/_will have already_ experienced this possibility. This is just a case of the will have already option. You clearly don't like this, and flag it up as something wrong. I can tell you that this abysmal amount of luck is legit.

And this then empathises itself with the other things I said about the Forge (percentage rates, etc.)

Small chance, yes. But on average? Across several dozen runs, and the dozen depths in each of those runs? You're claiming that you're hitting this small chance every single time for every single treasure chest in every single depth. Even without knowing the exact probability, I can say that enough crystals have been seen by enough people to say that such a chance is incredibly small. Small enough that the number of individuals who might experience this average in all of the Spiral Knights community boils down to perhaps one or two individuals, who are most likely lying.

*

I've seen one drop 8 and 2 spark of life, it's random, RNG is RNG. You can't predict and say "treasure chest drop around 3 crystal each" they just don't...

Hence, "around". There certainly may be single instances of exceptionally high drops, but that hardly precludes me from making observations on general trends I've noticed over several hours of playtime.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:15
#32
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
"@Rating That's your opinion.

"@Rating

That's your opinion. It's not instantly made a fact just because several other people agree with you."

But your opinion is fact when no one agrees with you?

I want to see some screenshots of your run reports. would be nice to actually see proof of only getting 10 crystals in 18-29

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:15
#33
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Mr. I can't read I feel like

@Mr. I can't read

I feel like not bothering with you. But you've hit a nerve. Tut tut.

---

I loot 40 to 60 Radiant Fire Crystal per EFSC

I loot 20 to 30. And that's when my teammates (If i'm not doing EFSC solo) aren't pushing me into traps/pushing enemies into me.

---

I loot 40 to 60 Shining Fire Crystal per T3 Stratum 5 run, can be upwards of 70 thanks to treasure vault

Trade them. Trade me them all. It's clear you're 'The Crystal God' and i'm 'The Crystal Bad Luck Brian'. Go on then, if you get so many. After all, you can get them all back? What's that? You don't want to help society and people with worse luck than you? Well there you go.

---

I loot 20 to 40 Glowing Fire Crystal per JK/RT run and I'm pissed by it...

Me too. That's loads.

---

You play Normal,

No, I have stated multiple times I am playing Elite, and also percieve it as the only difficulty because it is too easy.

---

Now stop crying about it and start playing Elite for once.

Refer to previous statement.

---

it's easily farmable

You mean doing levels 20,000 times over and over?

---

I stand upon 140+ sparks of Life and even w/o 100 I could do well... The Forge is awesome and make people run Arcade again, it literally revived this old way of playing, which is awesome.

140+ SoL. Seems legit.
The Forge is awesome? Not thought out enough but if that's the words you'd like to use, then sure.

---

Stop crying and lrn2read for once.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:16
#34
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Ndognine I'm not saying this

@Ndognine

I'm not saying this is a fact.

I never said this.

I'm putting it out.

You know this.

Stop coming up with excuses. PLEASE.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:18
#35
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Kupoo Small chance, yes. But

@Kupoo

Small chance, yes. But on average? Across several dozen runs, and the dozen depths in each of those runs? You're claiming that you're hitting this small chance every single time for every single treasure chest in every single depth. Even without knowing the exact probability, I can say that enough crystals have been seen by enough people to say that such a chance is incredibly small. Small enough that the number of individuals who might experience this average in all of the Spiral Knights community boils down to perhaps one or two individuals, who are most likely lying.

I'm not saying it's all the time. I'm saying it's too much of my time to bother doing for one little leveling scheme which will probably fail, anyway.

You do like to assume, don't you?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:18
#36
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
140+ SoL is easily Legit. I

140+ SoL is easily Legit. I have 126. I can screeny it if you really don't believe me

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:20
#37
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

I loot 20 to 30. And that's when my teammates (If i'm not doing EFSC solo) aren't pushing me into traps/pushing enemies into me.

That's bullcrap, I loot 40 on a bad vana and loot 60+ on a good one

4 team, alone, duo or trio did not changed the outcome of this

I always loot 40 to 60... I'm amazed how I always get between that 20 margin.

You are doing something wrong lol, something way wrong... I don't buy it

140+ SoL = 64 from missions + farming when SoL was raining... it is legit, I farmed for 20 hours since the update and are swimming in fire crystal. You are playing on normal, all my guildies plays on Elite and they always complain at how much fire crystal we have, it's useless...

LOL

Edit: BTW with your 600 hours experience you should know fire crystal are bound to you when acquired by Arcade... obviously you have looted so much and are farming soooo much fire crystal from Arcade/missions... jerk

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:23
#38
Kupoo's picture
Kupoo
I'm not saying it's all the

I'm not saying it's all the time. I'm saying it's too much of my time to bother doing for one little leveling scheme which will probably fail, anyway.
You do like to assume, don't you?

"On average" suggests that is the trend over all the runs you have done. So how much is "too much of your time"? How many depths is that so-called average across? Or did you choose to pick out one outlier as your average?

And poke me, will you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:22
#39
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

@ Cimothebaka

Let's settle this once and for all, I'll send you an invite to EFSC and we'll see how much we actually drop... deal?

Edit: in 30 minutes!

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:22
#40
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
LOL. I couldn't remember the

LOL. I couldn't remember the word for "people that cant admit they're wrong" so I googled that. and saw this
http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-Impossible-People

quite a funny read. I'll be taking its advise and leaving now, I have no interest is talking to a brick wall anymore ^_^

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:24
#41
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
That's bullcrap, I loot 40 on

That's bullcrap, I loot 40 on a bad vana and loot 60+ on a good one

Your basic perception of other people seems to be the mirror. And when people don't match this, do you point and laugh?

---

4 team, alone, duo or trio did not changed the outcome of this
I always loot 40 to 60... I'm amazed how I always get between that 20 margin.

Odd, isn't it?

----

You are doing something wrong lol, something way wrong... I don't buy it

---

You are playing on normal

Sigh... There's no point telling you, is there?

---

, all my guildies plays on Elite and they always complain at how much fire crystal we have, it's useless...

LOL

And look here, folks. The common signs of a little kid who thinks he's better than everyone else because he has sooo much more luck.
How bloody original.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:25
#42
Ink-Incorporated's picture
Ink-Incorporated

Cirnothebaka, don't be a brat...

Seriously.

You don't have to go to every thread saying that the forge is bad, and people say something about you wanting it to be removed then you facepalm even though you only BRIEFLY explained.

WE should be the ones facepalming.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:25
#43
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
Sooo... you're saying that by

Sooo... you're saying that by my opinion and mine alone, along with the fact that you don't agree...

Makes me impossible?

How very interesting.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:26
#44
Ndognine-Forums's picture
Ndognine-Forums
@ Kupoo looks like we're

@ Kupoo
looks like we're starting to see the "Name Calling" section :P

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:26
#45
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@Ink Hooray for the mass

@Ink

Hooray for the mass inability to understand other people!

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:27
#46
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
"On average" suggests that is

"On average" suggests that is the trend over all the runs you have done. So how much is "too much of your time"? How many depths is that so-called average across? Or did you choose to pick out one outlier as your average?

That's implying I've recorded all the crystals I've got on all my runs before I started recording said information.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:29
#47
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

So no deal? We can screenie the report and see how much we ALL got, I can invite 2 friends, you won't have to use any spark of life, just stay behind, loot everything.

Why are you ignoring me Cimothebaka?

Why??? :D

Oh tell me why *starts singing*

Tell me why you don't want meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Edit: You just proved how wrong you are by refusing my deal to PROVE with facts that what you said is true. Though luck troll

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:29
#48
Ink-Incorporated's picture
Ink-Incorporated

...because telling me "YES! I agree with removing a forge." on a thread that we previously discussed on is exactly saying that you want it reworked.

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:29
#49
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
@ Cimothebaka Let's settle

@ Cimothebaka

Let's settle this once and for all, I'll send you an invite to EFSC and we'll see how much we actually drop... deal?

Edit: in 30 minutes!

---

Depends. Do I have to turn my sound off because you're one of those kids that scream into the mic?

Sat, 08/10/2013 - 16:30
#50
Remove-The-Forge's picture
Remove-The-Forge
...because telling me "YES!

...because telling me "YES! That you agree with removing a forge." on a thread that we previously discussed on is exactly saying that you want it reworked.

>vague

>exactly

what?

---

So no deal? We can screenie the report and see how much we ALL got, I can invite 2 friends, you won't have to use any spark of life, just stay behind, loot everything.

Why are you ignoring me Cimothebaka?

Why??? :D

Oh tell me why *starts singing*

Tell me why you don't want meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Edit: You just proved how wrong you are by refusing my deal to PROVE with facts that what you said is true. Though luck troll

...So in your language that means no? What on earth...

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