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What a waste.

27 replies [Last post]
Sat, 03/22/2014 - 07:38
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion

Look at all these promos OOO is releasing. Look at the game. There isn't much content at all. It's barely changed from 2011 (sans the Battle Sprite update and the Energy overhaul).

The items in promos could be used for actual future gameplay content instead of just squandering those brilliant designs and making mindless fools spend hundreds on them. Seriously, I saw a fella in Haven who spent 400 US dollars on a celestial shield. But knowing OOO, this will never change. Kind of makes me sad, to be honest. I remember in the early days the game seemed like it had a good future ahead of it, but no, money corrupts humans, as we are weak.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 07:40
#1
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/89218
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/90696

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 07:41
#2
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion
What? You think I'm not aware

What? You think I'm not aware of this? Too many broken promises to the playerbase to believe that would come out anytime soon.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 08:15
#3
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

Since 2011?
What about all these?
Cakes
Apocrea
Kats
Grinchlin
Tortos (getting bored of linking)
New years giveaway (fireworks)
Shield bash and Dash
Guild halls
Shard Bombs
Heck, was the mission system even out during 2011?

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 08:16
#4
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

Magnificent anecdote, chum.

Impart it to us once more.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 08:29
#5
Ark-The-Monsta's picture
Ark-The-Monsta
I hear that OOO is

I hear that OOO is short-handed when it comes to developers. They were down 1 for quite a while, and now with Nick gone that's 2. I will respect that, being short on devs can really drag back progress on game development.

HOWEVER, with all these money-milking promos that everyone's been complaining about recently, they could most likely have the gunner update closer to being finished had they NOT spent so much time on box promos and the giant disappointment that was Tortodrones. Speaking of Tortodrones, Nick actually once promised us a long time ago that Tortodrones would return in a "future update." So lemme get this straight:

1. This "future update" featuring Tortodrones took almost 3 years to arrive.
2. When it did arrive, it was nothing more than a grindfest to gather glyphs from fiend levels (if they even dropped them) craft them into an ID card for an exorbitant price, and then encounter two tortodrones that rip your party to shreds in a matter of seconds and force you to mash the "Use Spark of Life" button.
3. Upon completion and at least 5 sparks spent for each person you find out you only get 2-5 ancient shells which you can make into shields. Oh right, I forgot to mention that you need like 28 of these things to make just one of the four new shields. And if you're like me, one who gets 6 radiants from a UFSC run on elite mode you were lucky to ever get more than 2 shells per run. I gotta admit, the shields are pretty cool looking though.

I could go on but I'm not gonna bother. I like this game a lot, I've spent a lot of time playing it, and I've met a lot of really awesome people in it. In my honest opinion, SK has a lot potential to be huge, as in a widely-popular MMO kind of like World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Guild Wars etc.

But with the way the already short handed dev team is handling the game, they're wasting the potential. If this keeps up, the playerbase will shrink, all the veteran players like myself (I joined only a day or two after the end of the preview event) will eventually lose it and stop playing. Everyone will get frustrated with OOO's "THIS UPDATE IS COMING GET READY" threads and then they turn around and crap out "gibe mone for boxes pls" promos with reskinned costumes and any new, original items require you to max out your credit card to even have a chance at obtaining. OOO needs to focus on the content that everyone's waiting for, with all the threads they've made regarding upcoming content, and all we've seen so far is more promos nobody wants, it just feels like OOO is putting nails in the coffin on purpose, it's as if they've given up on the gunner update and are focused on raking in as much cash as they can until the game's currently-imminent dying breath.

I'm not one who loses faith in a game and its dev team easily, but even I have a breaking point. I want to see the game grow and bring in more players, but all I see growing is the ludicrous amount of recolored accessories and costumes.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 08:54
#6
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion
@Skepticraven All events,

@Skepticraven All events, that are not permanent. The rest is minor and not noteworthy, If I had deemed them noteworthy, they would have been mentioned in my OP. Khomie, on the other hand, hit the nail right on the head and has described my thoughts much better than I have.

The Tortodrones were a massive disappointment, it took them four years to come back, all we got was an event, and the "real" Tortodrones were only a part of the background on the map.

I enjoyed the Apocrea event immensely, but it was not permanent. They had some H.P Lovecraft vibe going on with it, which made me like it even more.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 09:10
#7
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

Can you provide me a list of all the promotions then, and separate out the "reskin" ones? (Yes they do show up, but what % are reskinned?)
Can you explain why non-permanent events are a bad thing? The rewards stick around, it just doesn't get outdated like OCH did (with public parties are few and far between).

Did you not play events? Did you not enjoy events? It is more in human nature to see how things end than to see how much they enjoyed it while it lasted. Don't hate all temporary events just because they ended.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 09:24
#8
Blazzberry's picture
Blazzberry
I have no mouth and I need to scream

Wait...dash and shield bash aren't noteworthy?

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 09:44
#9
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion
I don't hate events at all,

I don't hate events at all, and you need to reread what I'm trying to say. Sure, events are fun, but they don't contribute to the games development as much as a permanent part of the game would.

As I have stated before, I enjoyed the Apocrea event immensely.

I don't agree with you opinion, sorry. You are indirectly supporting the games demise, which is inevitable if they keep employing these marketing techniques.

EDIT: Dash is useful, but bash, not so much, if you don't have a tortodrone shield. Still, this doesn't invalidate the fact that the actual core game should have more content.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 09:34
#10
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

you mean you don't use dash at all? you really mean that you don't see dash being used? dash influenced the dodging aspect of the game. practically everyone adapted their playstyle to that.

bash, yeah, that's minor. still useful but the drawbacks makes it not worth it.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 09:39
#11
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

"bash, yeah, that's minor. still useful but the drawbacks makes it not worth it."

I have to disagree. Ever since I got my torto shields I've been bashing more and more, and I've gotta say it's actually extremely safe and useful, you just need to know when and how to use it (this is with normal shields, not Torto).

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 09:45
#12
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion
I don't know how to argue

I don't know how to argue against your statement. Dash is useful, but it isn't something like new levels, weapons, armors, bosses etc. I made myself sound like an idiot as I neglected to highlight the usefulness of dashing, apologies.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 10:44
#13
Malkalack's picture
Malkalack
This is just ignorance.

They don't exist solely to make you have fun, they have to turn a profit. Would you rather just be able to do ten depths per day or spend money?

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 11:07
#14
Ark-The-Monsta's picture
Ark-The-Monsta
Skepticraven: "Can you

Skepticraven: "Can you explain why non-permanent events are a bad thing?......Did you not play events? Did you not enjoy events?"

Non permanent events are bad because for the ridiculously short time that they were out it, gave us players something else to do other than mindlessly run FSC 352 times a day or play the most rage-inducing, most unbalanced PvP game ever created. It actually brought some variety to the game other than spamming Voltedge and Blitz Needle charges at less than 5 different enemies. Or in LD, getting destroyed by people who play with less than 5 ms ping, have triple max UVs, use Auto Target and Acheron and on top of that watch them laugh at you and call you a noob and that you suck while at the same time displaying atrocious typing skills, no matter how basic.

Before I go off on a rant on LD, I enjoyed the events when they were out, but it ticks me off that they don't stick around. Reason why is mentioned above.

As for the reskinned armor/accessories, I'm not sure what percentage is "new" but I'll list what I know off the top of my head, we've had:

Hunter prize boxes (Puke-colored shades of green and yellow generic accessories and costumes resembling most basic armors and helms)
Surge prize boxes ( Same as hunter but the colors didn't make me gag as much)
Dangerous prize boxes (some new looking stuff and a Grey Owlite Shield re-model, meh)
Gourmet Prize boxes (Battle Sprite food and remodeled versions of the two slowest weapons in the game that deal pitiful damage, Sudaruska and Triglav, big deal)
Elite trinket boxes (Why? When we can just craft them with the thousands of Krogmo coins a lot of us have collecting dust)
Solstice prize boxes (These actually contained something decent for once but still...)
Rose Regalia boxes (Yay the same costume only recolored once again for like what, the 4th time?)
Year of the Horse boxes ( Ew, no... just... no)
Ancient prize boxes (Same generic accessories and costumes with moss and flowers on them, whatever)
Equinox boxes with a 1:2364584795664209 chance of getting something original AKA the Celestial Shield.

There's most likely more than that. That dates back to the release of Compound 42 or somewhere around there. The only permanent content we have gotten since then was compounds (which suck), battle sprites (more of a player buff than actual levels and missions besides the ones introducing them)
Shield dash and bash (another player buff) and the gorgos that appear in existing levels anyways. The only temporary events I will excuse are the Dark Harvest and Winterfest as they're both associated with Halloween and Christmas respectively.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 11:32
#15
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

It's probably a long stretch, but I think their plan is to make 12(or more) Events, so that every month, there will be a new Event for all Players to enjoy, including ones done yearly like Winterfest & Dark Harvest. If they manage to pull that off, then Promos like Equinox & Polar Boxes won't be as hated & everyone will have something to do.

So far, they have 3(Kataclysmic Confrontation, Shroud of the Apocrea, March of the Tortodrones). Fingers crossed.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 11:31
#16
Espeonage's picture
Espeonage
-

@Skepticraven
Compare these to the updates made in the game's first year, and the degrees of impact either made.
In fact, I made a thread regarding them at the time.
Any changes brought on during the following years simply haven't reached the same scope/aid/usefulness/etc as most of the updates made back then - those that do have become few and far between, losing the frequency of strong updates as well.

(If one wishes to be further specific and only include '2011' updates, you can cut it off after the Drones patch. As it is, both the implementation of the mission system and Crimson Hammer were and remain controversial, easily taken either way, so it doesn't particularly matter where these would be included.)

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 11:34
#17
Arelic's picture
Arelic
Dear Oskvion,

I read about how the demand for new content is the main concern for many-a-knights within cradle. In small doses, I see that being applied, even if I am not observant of the detail put into it. However, as Skepticraven noted earlier, if the game was flooded with the same content, could not permanence of the new content play itself out eventually?

Secondly, just like the brandish-line sword charges and sprite commands, everything from bashing to bombing must be used with discretion to obtain the optimal results. Before the Tordodrone missions, I would dash out of harm's way subsequently after charging through a crowd of enemies with my shield forward to clear a path, knowing that my defenses would be weakened. That mission has not changed how I use bash even with the new shields. What further adjustments to the gaming dynamic do you need?

Lastly, because I believe that the varying experiences within a community are influenced in part by the contributions of its people. By that, is your search for any nuance within this world dependent upon the content of another entity's release or have you also considered to changing your approach to playing within clockworks?

"The items in promos could be used for actual future gameplay content"
By that, did you mean something like how Operation Crimson Hammer was first introduced?

The one thing I do agree on is the issue about the short amount of time allotted for these events. But knowing that they will be back, I can wait.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:43
#18
Shidara's picture
Shidara
Content history

I feel the Dash and Bash techniques would've left a better impression if they game had enemies intelligent enough to let these abilities truly shine. As it stands they merely add another layer to a thick hammer that we use to smash them into the ground with.

As for permanent content (not necessarily listed in chronological order), there's been the Ironclaw Munitions Factory and the Roarmulus Twins, Quicksilver gear has been converted to a token reward and given a progression to 5*, Pulsars and Catalyzers were added alongside those, Blackened Crest being converted to a token reward making Crest of Almire accessible to your average player, the introduction of Piercing Swords in the form of the Flourish-line, Gloaming Wildwoods and the Snarbolax and with it the Barbarous Thorn Blade/Shield and Dark Briar Barrage bomb, Candlestick Keep and with it the haunting Grimalkin, Scarlet Fortress expansion (Grim Gallery), the introduction of Polyps and Howlitzers, the Shadow Lairs and their six armour sets (Snarbolax, Ice Queen, Heavenly Iron, Mercurial Demo, Arcane Salamander & Almirian Crusader), the all-powerful Brandish-line expansion (Glacius & Combuster), Operation Crimson Hammer DLC and with it the Mask of Seerus helm, Rocket Hammer and Dark Retribution bomb and the Darkmane Stalkers and Mortafires, the introduction of Wisps and Shankles, the introduction of Gremlin Knockers, Shard Bomb rework and expansion (Crystal, Deadly Shard, Dark Matter & Splinter), the addition of the Coliseum (Blast Network & Lockdown) and its four weapon-line expansions (Plague Needle, Electron Vortex, Stagger Storm & Voltedge) and trinket expansion (Quick Draw/Strike, Slash, Trueshot, Boom, Sword/Handgun/Bomb Focus and later Heart Pendants), the Guild Hall expansion, the Missions system and with it the Lost Souls and Battlepods, three Danger Missions and with them the introduction of Bombies and Almirian Crusaders, Compound levels and with them the Dust Bunnies, Glop Drops and Scarabs, the addition of Gorgos and finally Battle Sprites. The rest are recycling events.

Summing it all up there's been a total of:
- seven Boss-areas, four of which are reworks in the form of the Shadow Lairs
- three Clockworks levels
- thirteen Monsters, three of which cannot be found in the Arcade
- eight Helmets
- seven Armour
- one Shield
- three unique* lines of Swords for a total of eight types
- three unqiue* lines of Bombs and one** expansion for a total of six types
- two unique* lines of Handguns and one expansion for a total of five types
- nine types of craftable trinkets
- one Arcade-killer
- one Guild Hall expansion
- three Danger Missions
- three Battle Sprites
... over the course of three years in 21 patches. The rest are locked behind purchasable packs~ and recycling event-content. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and/or missed anything.

As far as permanently accessible content goes, I would've liked to have seen a few more actual Clockworks level-types, maybe create a whole new area (á la Scarlet Fortress, Aurora Isles).

*determined by swings/bullets and charge attacks
** technically two, but I count the Shard Bombs rework/expansion as creating a new equipment-line / I also do not count Scintillating SS/Shocking SB as part of the type tally
~ although OCH would initially count for this, it is now possible to obtain OCH through in-game means, even if it still is an indirect purchase

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 12:57
#19
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion
@Arelic Why not just work on

@Arelic
Why not just work on new content instead of boxes? I understand OOO's policies in allowing themselves to take as much time as they need to make content for the game, but the amount of freemium things they have been releasing lately is just ludicrous.

"By that, did you mean something like how Operation Crimson Hammer was first introduced?"

No, I mean something actually in the game, that isn't a DLC.

I can agree with you that they should extend events if a steady stream of gameplay content to feed its hungry playerbase isn't a option. I'm thinking a month sounds about right.

@Malkalack
For your information, I have spent money on this game and actually bought elevator passes before the system was revised. Yes, they have to make a profit, but isn't a game supposed to be a entertainment medium? In other words, it's supposed to be fun, not a cash cow.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 20:23
#20
Zaffy-Laffy's picture
Zaffy-Laffy

Double standards. TF2 providing updates (weapon balances or even remotely new content) about once a month, whilst selling keys to boxes containing cosmetics (not to mention providing event boxes too (halloween boxes, iron boxes blah blah blah)), and Valve gets praised. SK does about the same and get complained?

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 23:27
#21
Sweet-Hope's picture
Sweet-Hope

well TF2 have user content made by them, you can still submit stuff made by yourself even if it so bad or just some crazy stuff (like the mario kart map, orange box map etc) users can make mods which change the game completely (wario ware mod which is fun when you dont know that to do in TF2, the scout parkour mod) so boxes and key with vanity stuff isnt really a big thing in TF2 and well you can still make profit from what you get in the box in the first moment of the new promotion and more profit if you get an inusual which either you can get it in TF2 money (Metal) or funds for your steam wallet.

in Spiral Knight we dont have such thing of "user made content", we only count with PvE and PvP. PvE is not that great thing since its well... doing vana 24/7 hours or arcade when theres is a good gate (because while i dont mind compounds i just hate them because the lack of boxes so "having compound in depths 27-28 as the only level is really a lost cause for rarities), prestige as other levels become repetitive and well prestige a this point isnt useful where is the rewards they said we would get for our prestige? i only have a pony badge. PvP its not balanced and have a toxic community which i prefer just to stay away from it, i play the game to relax and have fun, not to get stress and rage. blast network its so dead that you rarely find a game and is the only pvp i enjoy because there at least its "balanced" (if we dont count the camera angle).

So: one game users can generate more content, give you new levels so you can enjoy and play, change the game mechanics with their mods, enchanced your UI so can be more useful or just look cool, in some point "player controlled" so even if valve just threw a bunch of cosmetic stuff isnt something big because well players keep the game alive by themselves.

the other game is under the company control (OOO) so the content we can have come from them so well you can expect players get mad that they get promo and promos and promos after promo when theres is just a few stuff to do in the game (specially if you have your time playing this game)

but well thats my opinion probably someone can explain better why people praise TF2 by doing that while SK get hate because doing the same.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 21:10
#22
Onekone's picture
Onekone

But TF2, while purely multiplayer, is not an MMO with everything locked behind devs decision, like Spiral Knights. Pull enough shenanigans (which Valve call mods) and you can have different enough experience (like Saxton Hale mode or TF2x10 or even just fresh new maps) that can drive you away from thoughts "wow, game stands still and there only hats". Even through last events in TF2 were only hats.

Sat, 03/22/2014 - 22:40
#23
Zaffy-Laffy's picture
Zaffy-Laffy

Maybe I was wrong to use TF2 as an example in a double-standard argument but...

Honestly I think people should just shut up about these cosmetics stuff. A lot of MMOGs out there are doing it, many already employing pay to win strategies. You don't like it, go for another game. You don't like the microtransaction structure. go for paid games. Can't pay, play those free flash games.

Sun, 03/23/2014 - 06:59
#24
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

I was thinking about writing this thread a week ago. I decided not to, because it'd been said so many times before. Then someone else goes and does it anyway.
OP, Read.

Sun, 03/23/2014 - 07:47
#25
Oskvion's picture
Oskvion
I was about to explain that

I was about to explain that TF2 has user made content, but I was sleeping and someone got to it before me.

While it may not seem so, this game is one of my favorite games and I have no intentions of going anywhere. I am also fully capable of buying things in this game with real money, but I just felt the need to address my concerns in a discussion.

EDIT: Read that link you posted, it was very good.

Sun, 03/23/2014 - 09:13
#26
Exerpa's picture
Exerpa
Cosmetics in SK are very

Cosmetics in SK are very one-dimensional in that they exist for the sole purpose of pushing money about; apart from earning crowns then there is usually no connection to the gameplay at all, except for a handful of event related items (Hallow, Frosty, etc). This is in stark contrast to TF2 where a lot of the cosmetics are integrated as part of the drop and craft system - wearing a hat in SK is effectively destroying it, it can not be recycled or recreated.

One size does not fit all. If cosmetics are a big part of the game experience to you, then having new fake gear to collect every 2 weeks is something to look forward to.
But if they are not, then the new fakes every 2 weeks adds very little to your game. Hence the core issue of this discussion - the disconnect between the gameplay process and non-gameplay items. Perhaps the non-gameplay items are meant to fill the gaps between gameplay vacuums, certainly they are a lot quicker and easier to implement as they have no abilities to think up and can be delivered via boxes, but it would seem some people are getting frustrated that fakes don't give them anything new to do in the mean time.

I wouldn't expect anything to change, at a guess selling expensive fake gear is probably far more lucrative than selling cheap real gear.. and cheap fake gear would probably sell even less - its fake after all.

Mon, 03/24/2014 - 15:32
#27
Fatalitizer's picture
Fatalitizer

The year of 2011 was SK's peak. Ever since then, the playerbase has decreased.

When lots of people are playing the game, the money is coming in, and it's easier to make big updates.
When that dries up, well...

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