That's a pretty opinion xx-hell-demon, but since you have nothing in the way of facts it's essentially worthless.

"Feyi, this entire thread is completely based on opinion."
That is so true. The posts that want AT removed are opinion, and people like myself who think it should remain are also stating opinions. This, in theory, means nobody is correct.

But back to my opinion, I find it humorous that (from my own experience at least) the vast majority of the AT-haters are the richest and supposedly "most-skilled" players in LD (coincidence? I think not). So, if they're so great, why can't they take it? Perhaps they can't stand the thought of loosing to someone who isn't supposedly "great?" If they're so great, shouldn't they be able to crush people even if the odds are against them (which they are not)?

I'm not bashing the richest players of SK or anything, as plenty of them are friendly, but some of them really do need to get their head out of their egos.

Again, it is entirely my opinion, take it as you will, and I'll take your opinion in whatever way I take it.

Also, @Achys... We're not saying you're wrong, we're stating what we think, and then you decide to bash us and call us noobs and say we're wrong because we didn't +1 your idea?

@feyi
There is no value to this thread... it's essentially a bunch of AT haters getting together to plead for the removal of this system and the bunch of people who accept AT arguing against it. I see no value in this thread as it will accomplish literally nothing.

@Mushy-bucket
Yay, you get what I mean!

I have another fact: Monsters you encounter in the clockworks use AT.
How do you think those Devilite snowballs hit so accurately? How do you think those Greavers sticky you so well? Courtesy of yours truly.

Surely PvE isn't as hard as Lockdown, but those monsters in PvE are using AT! How is it that auto-targeting makes Lockdown players unbeatable but hardly poses a challenge in the clockworks? Could it be that the entity controlling the AT enabled character actually does most of the work?
MINDBLOWN

I didn't read any of the previous comments cause I already know who said what.
Truth is, AT is for who wants to halve the difficulty of their game.
That being said, I think players with, let's say, 200+ ping should be able to have AT enabled, cause the game is hard enough for them.
That doesn't change the fact that even with 200 ping I'd play without AT.
Before anyone says anything along the lines of "how do you even know what 200 ping is like?", this is my ping/download speed/upload speed on US server.

Stupid game mechanic is stupid.

You still call it a cheat... but at the end of the day it's an option. If you're trying to say that an option is a cheat, where's the logic in that? And as long as there are people that support AT, you can't do anything about it. You mentioned earlier that AT users are the ones who whine, then why is there a thread every week asking for removing it? Isn't that call whining? How about YOU use AT instead of being the person without it but whines about it although he has the chance to use it. I understand the fact that it's useless when facing 3 people at once since it aims on one person, so why are you annoyed by it if it really is useless? It just proves to us that you're the one who needs AA. People who have brains understand what I'm trying to say (which is something you claim to have but this proves you don't really have 1).

...The big problem here is a "competitive ban" issue. Those are community-made 'bans' for competitive play.

For example, in competitive Smash, we turn off items, or just don't play on certain stages when money's on the line because it's against the competitive spirit of having a skill-based competition. Things that are 'broken', 'random', or 'cheating' are discouraged from competitive play.

Any argument against AT makes sense in a serious competitive context. And that's fine.

It's ok to ban AT (or anything, all parties consenting) when you're in a serious competitive situation (ex: the "Real Players" tournament --> both players record to show no AT was used), because then all competitors agree to the rules.

But in casual random match where people are playing for fun, it shouldn't matter. You look stupid and needlessly hardcore to go into random matches and cry "NO AT!", just like going to a random friend's place and getting mad when someone turns on items.

That's where the difference is here.

I see no point in even asking for this "no AT" ban option as long as games are random. If real lockdown lobbies existed, yeah, that would be nice, but while lockdown is only a random minigame? No.

If you have a tournament or gvg, sure, make the rules, agree to them. If they cheat, then they can't participate. Random matches? Who cares.

Achys, LD n'est pas toujours serieux mdr

People practiced, farmed/merched/paid earned money to get to their skill and gear level. It took effort. AT neglects the need to put in the same effort to actually get better on your own. It's lazy, and I've always argued that it's in fact detrimental to high ping players because it widens the gap between them and already skilled players using AT, or tightens it with non-skilled players using it. It doesn't lock on effectively enough for someone with 1-2 bars compared to a 4-bar player to justify your arguments that it's an advantage for high pingers. To me, it's a great disadvantage.

You have a choice. Go practice and get better. I don't want a part of this deadbeat argument, but stop using latency as an excuse. Most of my guildies who play LD are from Asia/SEA/Oceania and they do just fine without AT.

Ok, fine, latency argument is invalid with practice.
I still dislike that we're completely favouring more experienced players here, but oh well.

I am aware that people have worked hard for their gear - however this does not mean that the overpoweredness of heart trinkets etc should be ignored.
As an example, I do not have a heart trinket. I can get one-hit by a high level gran faust.
I managed to get 3 or 4 swings on my friend using heart trinkets and chaos, only brought them down 58%.This is using sudaruska, a weapon that should do much more damage than faust/avenger to balance it's speed but doesn't for some bizarre reason.

Another thing - complaining that AT is overpowered...
Does that mean I can petition for blitz to be banned from vanaduke runs? It's overpowered and takes enjoyment away from me by killing everything before I can! It's completely unfair! ban it!
Because that's kind of the same thing. It's in the game so it's there to be used.

No one said AT is overpowered. It's just a slap in the face of those who actually put in time and patience in favour of those who want to play on the same level without doing the same. You can do the same and get trinkets, UVs, whatever if you think it's that important. People who have a problem with it can't do anything about others using AT against them. I don't get why you're getting so stressed here. If you think your gear, or lack of practice is hindering you, then go do something about it. It's no one's fault here that you are new and don't have the right gear. You're barking up the wrong tree.

This is not only about noobs with AT.
Yes most of us opposing AT can kill a noob regardless of wether they use it or not.
If you have to kill 6 of them though you're bound to take some hits. Hits that otherwise wouldn't have been there..

This is also, and for me largely, about players that do have 4 bars, UVed gear, and experience, who still use AT.

Ok, so you wouldn't mind blitz... what would you say to trading out your heart trinkets in order for no AT?

Bear in mind, everything could be sorted if LD had a matchmaking system based on total games palyed perhaps. something so that people with heart trinkets and max damage fausts wouldn't be facing knight elites with solid cobalt and 4* brandishes.

I think all the addition of all trinkets but the original status and defense ones were bad.

I'd be fine with them removing HP-trinkets, reduce striker health, negative status for strikers, remove effects of UVs for PvP, if they remove AT in some way.

@Leekcoco
How about you reread mine? I never said merching wasn't a plausible way to make cash, I just said it isn't working "hard." Hard work being more like somebody who plays the game to get gear ("farming" or running levels in general) or spending money on SK that the person earned though a job. There's nothing wrong with merching or spending your grandma's birthday money on SK, it's just less... special? less of an accomplishment? I dunno, it's a pretty simple point.

Maybe the nublets need those extra hits to increase their confidence and keep them playing. If they just get absolutely crushed every time they play, why bother? It's not very fun to get smushed every single game, so maybe it's there to help them feel a tad better about themselves. They still get totally blown away, but a little bit less so (unless they just suck horribly).

I just think that since AT isn't gonna make the best players do any worse, they really shouldn't fuss so much about it. It's mostly just one of their excuses for dieing, since they seem to think anyone really cares why; we all die in LD, nobody needs your fake reason for it.

@Feyi-Feyi
Ok, I see what you're saying now. All I know to say is: Custom Lobbies all the way.

J'ai un clavier anglais, alors pas d'accents.

Le probleme n'est pas le manque du "skill" (ce n'est pas un mot francais, donc tu manques un cerveau?). Le probleme en realite sont les gens comme toi. Pourquoi vous etes tellement interesse par l'incompetence d'autres?
Tu les trouves trop facile? Bien, portes l'equipement proto. Je t'assures ils deviendront plus difficile a tuer.
Si tu les trouves trop difficile a tuer, c'est evidence que tu est le vrai "noob". Au lieu d'adapter a l'environnement oppressif, tu te plains et accuses le systeme.

Ils ont leurs preferences et ils ont la doit de choisir. Il n'y a pas d'effet sur les dynamiques de Lockdown dans ton perspectif.

Alright, so i'll try to translate what he said as best i can.

Pour commencer : je parle en français , car vous devait apprendre notre langue , pour ceux qui ont un cerveau :)
For starting/to start: i speak in french, because you must learn our language, for those who have a brain.
(about the second part in case you're wondering whether i translated it badly [it does sound odd], vous translates to you [plural, referring to multiple people] and devait is l'imparfait for devoir, or to must)
basically he's saying that if you've had a brain, you must learn french, although that may just be a joke

Ensuite , je vous montre votre AT sur une vidéo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl0t0Z0vly8
Also, I want you to watch auto-target in a video: *insertvideohere*

Et une autre avec le no AT : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTjqp93klmk
And another one without auto-target: *insertvideohere*

Laquelle est la plus belle à voir ???
What is the better one? (it also says to see at the end, but the question sounds better without that part)

Donc fermez - là avec votre auto - visée et supprimée moi cette AT ! :)
Thus, shut down/close - your auto - aim/see and delete this auto-target (no idea why he has a hyphen, but i'll carry it over)

Je préfère avoir du skill que jouer AT , bon jeu à tous et apprécier mon travail !
I prefer to have skill without using auto-target, good game to all of you, and appreciate my work!

Ps : Si jamais vous êtes si bon que vous le prétendez , montrer nous de quoi vous êtes capable , avec des montages , au lieu de critiquer .
If you aren't as good as you pretend, show what you are capable of, with a video, instead of criticizing (also not sure about the wording, leaves something to be desired)

Might've messed up, but it should basically get his/her message across.

EDIT: Fixed the grammar so it was a little more understandable. May have strayed more from the original meaning and words, but it'll be more understandable now.

So Achys asked us to prove our intelligence by learning French...
on an English forum? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

So I watched both videos and I learned this : FF comboing vs weaker players when timing isn't too off is completely viable in LD. To be pro in LD without AT I need to create the generic striker loadout which is usually(GF + FF w/ asi vh or armour which helps these attain max asi, 2 guns which are usually valiance and 1 alchemer). I need to combo a lot with the max asi gf to be a high damager without AT. I should rage and spark rev when I'm trying to make points about why AT is bad in videos.

That is all

-1

AT is just a helpful tool for laggy players in the Land of Boomerangs and Kangaroos. If your gonna kill off AT your gonna kill of a lot of players whom not only are in the LoBaK but said controller-using players. Your gonna have to put aside your own grudges and look towards the the greater good. We still need those people for LD! D;

EDIT: Ohwaitnevermind.

The ignorance of people defending AT in this thread.. It hurts.
Every post keeps hammering on the same 'it's for new people, it's for laggy people' argument that has been done to death.

You know who profits the most from AT? The 0 ping, asi VH player.

I'll say it again: if you want to help new people, ask for a place where they can actually train to become good.
Don't ask for something that makes them better, let them actually become better.

@Feyi
I said a few posts up that I get your point. I still feel like it should be an option, so I personally think the only real fix for it that everybody could appreciate would be for LD to have custom lobbies, but that won't happen. Course, neither will they remove AT from PvP, nor will they fix the LD maps. OOO just has other things on their mind besides LD, a minigame.

Whose this Un-Idiot?

hi