Probably the percentages for damage increase/damage reduction/attack speed increase.
Petition Ban option Auto-aim !
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 11:20
#202
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 12:29
#203
This one: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Abilities, and the Lancer data it links to.
Also Seiran, no LD is not intended to be a 1vs1 deathmatch.
That does not change how battling players is also a big part of the experience.
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 12:35
#204
This page is outdated/incorrect. Try Zeddy's research instead. I'm kinda tired today so I won't elaborate much but I can say that 1 pip = 40 HP, defence UVs = 6.4 units of defence * numeric value of UV at D25 where lockdown is and damage bonus is a linear 4% increase applied before defence, which you can read more about on the wiki. That article is much more up to date.
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 16:40
#205
Is this accurate summary of what has occurred so far?
I made an argument for why AT is not overpowered.
Opponents of AT say they disagree.
This is why nobody can prove you wrong. Because none of you ever make an argument. You just state what you believe is true. There's no examples, no analysis. You can't really argue against claims without evidence.
To take apart an argument, you have to use the same facts (that both sides agree on) and show that the other side's *conclusion* is faulty. You have to show that they're wrong, not just say why you're right.
Feyi, I look forward to your post. However, please note that it will have no effect whatsoever in my argument. There are two things you can show:
1. AT is overpowered
2. AT is not overpowered
If you show 1, then I would say that's a good thing.
That means skilled players can experience a greater challenge by turning off their AT while unskilled players can keep theirs on. Why is this bad? It basically gives players the ability to change how difficult PvP is for themselves.
If you show 2, then I would say you have nothing to complain about.
Like I said in my first post, you can't complain about it being too easy, because you can always handicap yourself to make it harder. If it isn't overpowered then it can't be too hard either.
==============================================================================================
Can someone just answer these questions:
Do you dislike AT because it makes Lockdown too difficult or because it makes Lockdown too easy?
Do you dislike the effects of someone else's AT on you or just the idea that someone else can use AT to boost performance?
If you don't have a problem with any of the reasons listed above, what in the world is your problem?
There cannot be a meaningful discussion if you don't state your position clearly.
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 18:33
#206
the debate still continue~
@Feyi
"Does it ever occur to you that if you don't invest the same time and effort into getting good as someone else did,
you maybe don't deserve to be as good? I've you've ever been out there in the real world that's how it pretty much works"
ikr~ just telling people how much the difference and time spent when you have good supporter
"connection > experience > luck > macro > unique variant (especially asi) > AT' as Floerail put it isn't even close to the truth."
this is very close to the truth~ well that for me but every people have their own right opinion
and i might not here to complain if lockdown is not dying.. the truth fact we afar from sunshine
same face everyday and new face kept gone (where did they go?)
most of them scare to fight overpowered people who just manage to get high damage and some just feel annoying when people like this not in their team.. no one want to get beat up alot~ this happen to every combat game, it called circle of life.
but if we kept like this... lockdown will become more haunted (not dead)
@Auto-Target
-Do you dislike AT because it makes Lockdown too difficult or because it makes Lockdown too easy?
it seem the difference is small.. it just matter of time or how fast you daze enemy
no matter use AT or not, you're just going to die if you have bad reaction and bad prediction
-Do you dislike the effects of someone else's AT on you or just the idea that someone else can use AT to boost performance?
no, there no rule about not using AT and skill?? it's your choice to choose hard way by not using AT or get some help for aim fix from AT. the only thing i dislike is when ping2win player with good uv and experience still use AT to complete the part to become immortal or for having fun for theyself~ there lot of ping2win player abuse it but i'm not going to listed it here because of personal attack in forum rule. and yes AT boost performance but the difference is not that big to make game become easy~
i hate people idea who think AT can make game become too easy.. connection is the only best option to make game become more easier~ you can daze people with bad connection easily (not all time), people with bad connection or red bar connection see you on upper screen while on the server itself you already near him and ready to attack. if all people have same 4 bar connection.. thread like damage record with damage over 30k not going to have that much of people~
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 18:59
#207
@autotarget
If your attitude is gonna be 'deal with it' no matter wether I prove AT is broken, I'm not gonna go through the effort of dropping the science bomb.
You invalidated your own discussion.
Wed, 04/09/2014 - 20:57
#208
@Feyi
I was saving you the trouble of spending time compiling your "science bomb". Just pretend you posted your "science bomb" and that was my response.
I think you are trying to answer this question with your science:
Do you dislike AT because it makes Lockdown too difficult or because it makes Lockdown too easy?
What are you trying to prove with your Lockdown science? Too difficult or too easy?
Basically I assumed you were trying to prove one or the other with data. I admit that was a arrogant on my part, but I don't see how else could Lockdown science be relevant.
"Deal with it no matter what" is somewhat accurate, actually. Can you tell me why you think that is not fair?
What do you say to someone with bad latency? "deal with it, that's your problem"
What do you say to someone without trinkets? "earn crowns and get some yourself"
Why can't you respond the same way to people who refuse to use AT?
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 04:05
#209
What do you say to someone with bad latency? "deal with it, that's your problem"
What do you say to someone without trinkets? "earn crowns and get some yourself"
Why can't you respond the same way to people who refuse to use AT?
This argument only has value if you think all these 3 are equally beneficial to a players performance.
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 07:14
#210
5. The real problem with AT (Feyi's theory)
Most of the people having a problem with it are veteran players. You'll rarely see a new players go 'AT kill, lol nub, uninstall pls'.
The thing with that is we know what we were beaten by when we die, and when the sole reason for that is AT that's frustrating.
So yeah, I will give you this point, it's psychological thing, but that doesn't make it irrelevant.
You know what you were killed by? I don't think you can say that with enough certainty all the time, because I've seen multiple players call out various other players, friends/acquaintances on using AT, however, they actually had it off the whole time. What makes you think you know what killed you?
Assuming that you DO know was the cause of you being beaten, arguably, you could say the same about players on low(lower) ping, and maybe UVs(not going to delve into that, mostly because following points don't apply). It is a frustrating experience when one gets positively range-fried on their screen due to ping, from distances of miles away, and helpless to stop it.
I can simply describe the experience on one bar to you- hits appear to connect on your screen, yet sometimes they don't do damage, they pass through players.(not due to invincibility frames whatsoever) Opponents can hit you from all sorts of weird angles, weird distances, with or without AT. It can effectively be summed up with playing with a bunch of players with a permanent recon cloak. Opposing players have a massive tendency to not be where they are on the screen, and trying to a)guess where they are b)time when to hit them c)think what is their next move or two d)compensate for delay causing poor reaction time in addition to e)aim properly is already a long list of things to do, and this is already a sizeable amount more than a player privileged to have good levels of ping. Not to mention AT isn't quite the end-all thing described as. It simply increases range, and in such an above situation, with opponents that could possibly be anywhere on the screen, a range increase is justified, no?
The thing with that is we know what we were beaten by when we die, and when the sole reason for that is low ping that's frustrating. Furthermore, if you're beaten by AT, you can, guess what, switch it on, ditch your "holier-than-thou-aimbot-user" attitude! What is a poor soul stuck all the way on the other side of the world of the server going to do? Immigrate?
Basically, fine, nothing wrong with removing AT,or having an option to toggle it on/off in lobbies, after every other disparity is fixed. Removing it now is just going to make the disparity remain the same, or become even larger for players of differing ping, and only ultimately benefits all the so-called elites.
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 09:00
#211
I'm not saying you shouldn't play Lockdown with a 1 bar connection, I am saying you shouldn't expect the same experience.
You can't adjust a game to compensate for the lowest common denominator, AKA the person with a bad connection and no experience/gear.
You're the second person now to say: 'then just turn on AT'.
In what world does it makes sense that I would turn on the feature I want to opt out of because it's broken?
You're assuming it's the fact I'm being killed that frustrates me. Guess what? No.
It's Lockdown, you will get killed anyway.
I don't mind losing to players, I do mind losing to the computer.
@Auto-Target
Nope Nope Nope. We're done.
Once again, I tried to have a decent argument about it. You called me out on the fact that I said I'm always open for that.
If you're not going to take facts and numbers in account, and say that 'it all boils down to opinions', we're done..
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 10:17
#212
:;
@Auto-target:
In a proper argument, both sides should be willing to concede.
The feel I'm getting from people who are for an AT ban seems to be more of:
"It's unfair that people who turn it on can be as good as people who worked hard to get skilled"
...something that I disagree with because as you've implied and I've said, there are many other factors to 'skill' than just directional aim.
@Isralrczht:
It simply increases range, and in such an above situation, with opponents that could possibly be anywhere on the screen, a range increase is justified, no?
It aims your weapon directly towards them. It might optimize the range for swords, but it doesn't increase it any further than that.
Is it not the person getting attacked who should be aware of a weapon's max range when trying to fight it? If I'm using a heavy sword, should I complain that people are cheating and increasing range when I'm always trying to hit standing directly next to my opponent when the true max range is closer to 1.6 (made-up number)?
Anything outside of that is an issue of timing, which is the number one concern for anyone who has to deal with latency.
Also, if you're against an AT ban, the concept of being "beaten by AT" shouldn't really be an issue.
Because AT doesn't kill people, people kill people.
@Feyi:
If your attitude is gonna be 'deal with it' no matter wether I prove AT is broken, I'm not gonna go through the effort of dropping the science bomb.
You invalidated your own discussion.
Well, my stance in this argument is malleable:
1) AT is not overpowered, all options considered (classes, weapons).
Recon nullifies the effect, while Guardian acts on reaction/counter approach. With theoretical perfect aim, matchups become a matter of class and weapon choices: swords are outranged by guns, simple as that. In the same way, any AT-based swordsman can be countered safely with guns. AT does not aim ahead to take into account firing/bullet speed and doesn't work while step-shooting with mobile guns, so it doesn't nearly provide the same significance for gun users, either.
2) AT does not give an unfair advantage to unskilled players.
There are other, more human aspects to getting and avoiding hits in than just directional aim: placement, timing.
3) Overall, it is not important enough to ban AT:
AT shows its greatest difference in a 1v1 setting with thin weapons that are arguably 'harder to hit with' (basically... brandishes, strikers). In the uncontrolled world of regular matches where teams are trying to capture points, you tend to fight more than one player at a time, and AT's effects return less reward vs multiple people.
These points aren't exclusive of each other. Actually, they make more sense together.
If your lockdown science can sway me on either of these points, I welcome it.
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 11:16
#213
@Feyi
You totally have the right to opt out.
If you felt the point of the discussion is so both sides and spew facts and then say "there, that proves I'm right", then don't expect it to be productive. The problem is not whether or not AT is OP. The problem is "so what if it is or isn't?". There must be a logical, common-sense, connection between facts and the need to get rid of AT.
What am I suppose to do? Look at the facts, and say you're right even though I don't see why you're right?
============================================================================
Your most recent post is actually most enlightening. To summarize:
[I actually did a detailed line-by-line summary, but then decided you probably won't read it anyways]
I think your overall points is this:
You (not you specifically, but the side you represent) prefer if everyone in Lockdown played like you. People who don't play the way you like should not have to be part of your Lockdown games.
You believe this is reasonable because the game is responsible for your experience. If a good experience demands you can play with people who play the way you like, then the game should accommodate that.
As it's stated, I don't disagree. But then the issue is more of a suggestion than a complaint. Lockdown without optional AT is something you want, not a solution to something wrong with the game.
It's like the difference between "make a 5* winmillion" and "nerf archeron". The former expresses a desire while the latter expresses a grievance.
What I don't understand is why you think it's more fun if everyone played without AT. I don't see how that makes a difference. Like you said yourself, you will still die, and Lockdown mechanics will still work the same way. Why is it that knowing nobody in the game is using AT makes you feel much better about the game?
My theory is that you guys are just "butthurt", but apparently that's not true. Then what is the real reason?
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:35
#214
^
The problem is not whether or not AT is OP. The problem is "so what if it is or isn't?".
It can be.
If it's OP, it's likely a good idea to consider an AT-removal - player-led in controlled situations or otherwise.
If it's not OP, then shrug it off and let it be.
There's a little bit of an ego/competitive stretch in wanting to have a skill-based game involved in this as well. Achys wants to remove AT so LD can be skill-based, but I argue against the notion because there are far too many other issues that force LD away from being a true 'skill-based' competition (too much randomness and connection inconsistency between players).
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 12:41
#215
That's how it works. If facts prove the mechanic is broken, the mechanic should be adjusted.
Don't assume I won't read point by point summaries. Have I done anything in this thread to convince you I don't read them?
I'm not trying to make Lockdown uniform; I'm challenging the notion that AT isn't broken or important.
There's no mindless hate here. As stated before, I'm not even a fan of an outright ban.
As to why it would be more 'fun', just consider 3 letters: PvP. player versus player.
In most PvP games auto aiming warrants you a ban.
In this game, not only did the developers implement it from the get go, we actually have people dedicated to defending it.
You're fighting another player, and both of you had to overcome the circumstances you started with.
Wether that be a bad connection, lack of experience, bad gear, etc. That is what decides skill.
How you take what you have, and learn how to get good with it.
I've seen skill written like 'skill' before on this thread. It's not a dirty thing, it's what you try to achieve in any game.
That's what I meant before when I said you're fighting people with the same weapons. Not literal weapons.
@Seiran:
1) AT is not overpowered, all options considered (classes, weapons).
AT does not have to be overpowered to be broken.
What is is however, is giving the arguably most overpowered class in Lockdown, namely sword striker, another benefit.
Is that not a problem? I want lockdown to be more balanced, and diverse, and discussing this is one small step towards that.
2) AT does not give an unfair advantage to unskilled players.
I am 100% with you that is not the single most important thing in Lockdown.
This is not only about unskilled people though, everybody has access to it, including the people who already have the other important things in LD mastered.
At that point it does become important.
Also: is there such a thing as a 'fair' advantage that should be accessible to people by clicking an option?
I don't want the mechanic gone. I would like to see it revised. Krakob's suggestion of correlating correction degree to ping is great.
This doesn't even have to interfere with lobbies, which I believe you'd also like so see.
I'm not gonna go into #3 here, because my last sentences above pretty much state where I stand on the matter.
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 14:22
#216
:;
1) As I see it right now, the class that both gains and gets hurt the most from AT is striker, and specifically with brandish-like weapons (toothpicks and heavy swords have a forgiving wide swing anyway).
Recon doesn't suffer from AT users because AT doesn't track cloak, and recons have to expect to be approached when they're visible anyway. AT enemies are an irrelevant issue for recons.
You might argue Guardian then suffers from AT strikers, but guardians expect to be approached and attacked: the shield/spacing play is almost completely timing-based. When their shield gets pinged, they have to decide to go for a reaction-counter or delayed counter to the re-approach - and having a striker that uses AT doesn't really change that.
Striker? Your only defense is your speed to misdirect or outrange. When you're facing an enemy that knows how to aim, your responses are either to try to misdirect their aim/movement or assume they have perfect aim and try to force them to mistime or outrange them. With AT, it becomes way harder to misdirect their aim because you need to move in a way that forces them to click at an insanely wrong angle, and if they're good, you'll stay in that range.
I want lockdown to be more diverse as well, but as I see it, it's an issue of role models: Why did Skolver toothpick+heavy sword become the dominant clone set? Because some people did well with it, and newbies (to lockdown) continued to die to it. They took to just accepting that "they only won because they had a good set" and not because of their lack of skill and bam, a clone. It took people who thought outside that box and statistically better sets before the "upper tier" set turned into BKC/shadowsun + acheron/valiance or whatever it is now.
Why do newbies turn use Polaris when they start to lose? Because at face value, that's what they think killed them. "The polaris spam killed me!" and not the fact that they moved badly to the point that they ran into a slow bullet or something. It's a strange, sad, cycle. For diversity, you need to have people who play recon/guardian at a way that inspires new players to think "I can do that if I used that class!"
Anyway, I'll cut that here.
2) Re: AT gives an unfair advantage to skilled players:
Ah. Is there any difference when mr. highest-damage spawncamper kills lesser skilled players without AT and with AT?
It'll definitely make the bully hit more often if they've got timing and movement down, but the bully is already outdoing the timing/movement, so it just makes the kills quicker. As it goes, to get hitstun combo'd, the first hit still needs to land, and the first hit comes from being outplayed in footwork or from surprise factors (recon, off-screen hits, etc)
So maybe the 75% successful follow jumps up to 95%.
---
Yeah... we can ignore #3. I mean, if you can convince me on the other two, it'll pretty much make me feel like it is actually an important issue.
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 15:54
#217
@Feyi
Regarding you not reading the details.
I made that assumption because earlier you said I did not realize AT gives increased range, when I gave an explicit numerical gain (extended reach when striking beyond 71% of the total sword length at 45 degrees) in my example.
It's easy for someone to forgot about small details in a wall of text. It was not an insult just a disclosure.
I'm not trying to make Lockdown uniform; I'm challenging the notion that AT isn't broken or important.
I think we are both familiar with the facts of what AT does and what latency* does, and what equipment does to enhance a player's performance. I do not believe those facts show AT is "broken".
"Broken" implies it takes away something from the game. The only thing it could possibly take away is the need to aim, which it doesn't. The closest it ever comes is with brandish. Even then, that only gives brandish a range slightly less than that of a flourish. If there is no way to counter AT brandish users, then I would agree it is broken.
*Latency is not exclusive to ping. Bad computers/graphics cards contribute more than ping to latency.
As to why it would be more 'fun', just consider 3 letters: PvP. player versus player.
Do you really think AT users sit at their computers with their eyes shut while clicking randomly with the mouse? Since you know the facts, you know that AT is NOT a bot. A player still has to time each swing, aim in the general direction, dodge, choose the right loadout, predict, etc. Adjusting aim up to 45 degrees does not mean skill is not needed.
Consider your friend Krakob, who currently uses AT some of the time. Does that mean sometimes he doesn't play Lockdown, and just tells his computer to play it for him? No. He still has to do the work.
In most PvP games auto aiming warrants you a ban. In this game, not only did the developers implement it from the get go, we actually have people dedicated to defending it.
The fact that it is sanctioned by the developers is exactly why it is not detrimental to the game. An auto-aim bot used in other games is bad because it gives select people advantage over others. In this game, everybody has access to this advantage. There's nothing unfair about it.
In most PvP games, hacking the client to boost your attack speed also warrants a ban. In this game, developers implement ways you can boost your attack speed. Because it's part of the game and available to everyone, it can't be "cheap/cheating".
That is what decides skill. How you take what you have, and learn how to get good with it.
I totally agree! Optional AT is part of what you have. Learn how to be good with it.
I personally say "skill" in the context of people who claim they have skill by pointing at their scores. According to your definition, scores cannot accurately measure skill because we can't standardize exactly what each person has (connection, equipment, they're playing with one hand, etc.). Thus, you can't really measure a person's skill. You can only see how they have improved over time.
Thu, 04/10/2014 - 20:06
#218
the debate still continue~
Latency is not exclusive to ping. Bad computers/graphics cards contribute more than ping to latency.
when you are outside of us/eu, connection contribute more
when you're in us/eu, computer component contribute most
There's a little bit of an ego/competitive stretch in wanting to have a skill-based game involved in this as well. Achys wants to remove AT so LD can be skill-based, but I argue against the notion because there are far too many other issues that force LD away from being a true 'skill-based' competition (too much randomness and connection inconsistency between players).
people take LD too seerusly~ it just a minigame.. but some just wanted to take advantage if AT removed from game
As to why it would be more 'fun', just consider 3 letters: PvP. player versus player.
In most PvP games auto aiming warrants you a ban.
In this game, not only did the developers implement it from the get go, we actually have people dedicated to defending it.
this game not even pvp based, we don't even have newbie channel (our tier1 and t2 not even exist~ even if they were exist.. it just bunch of veteran who want to get something different) if you think remove AT can make game balanced, i say no... because our newbie channel still broken or not working (no sign of human life) so all unskilled player just skip and go to tier3 and meet with moderate player. our server not even good to make another server for non AT, most people who got 1-2 bar connection here can get green ping from other non-java based game and my friend got 2 yellow bar when 2012 but now got 1 bar when 2013 with same connection speed.. this already showed our server can become more bad from day to days~
in fact we have more than 60% player from outside of us/eu (this is just according to my research) upgrade server might be more good than work for gunner update (this update exist??) and we might have more player to play ld and more balance fight rather than new polaris line or other gun (because gunner aren't playable for people under 2 bar in lockdown except supporting from back or spamming polaris)
Fri, 04/11/2014 - 04:39
#219
Latency is the same as ping, I'm rather sure.
Latency (Wikipedia article):
Latency is a time interval between the stimulation and response, or, from a more general point of view, as a time delay between the cause and the effect of some physical change in the system being observed.
Network latency in a packet-switched network is measured either one-way (the time from the source sending a packet to the destination receiving it), or round-trip delay time (the one-way latency from source to destination plus the one-way latency from the destination back to the source).
And Ping:
Ping is a computer network administration utility used to test the reachability of a host on an Internet Protocol (IP) network and to measure the round-trip time for messages sent from the originating host to a destination computer.
Sounds familiar?
I'm guessing you're confusing latency with either low framerate or an unstable connection.
Fri, 04/11/2014 - 09:42
#220
Floerail is right
Guys, it's not about the tier system being broken, we don't have a tier system.
Lockdown is P2W - not Pay 2 Win, but Ping 2 Win.
Fri, 04/11/2014 - 14:58
#221
@Krakob
I don't think word choice is that important.
My point is what you measure with a ping test is not always the real delay between what happens on the server and what happens on your screen. If your ping tests to 20ms but you are playing on a crappy laptop, you won't have the same reaction time as a person with 50ms ping on a high-performance desktop.
I said this so people who have played on a high ping connection with their Alienware* computer understand they can't assume their experience is the same as someone playing with a $400 laptop on a similar connection.
*Again, this is an arbitrary word choice, you can replace Alienware with anything similar.
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:26
#222
No... Whats the point?
Do not ban this.. What is the point on banning this? The newbies need to use this aswell... Besides when you become pros you can dis-able that command.. it is like riding a bike with the balance wheels... when you get used to it you remove it... This option ARE useful to some players even though i do not use it, my friend uses it though, and it really helps him alot...
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 04:28
#223
Achys
These little steps make you a pro at SK soon.. When I was a newbie I had great fun with the AT system...
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 10:58
#224
@Auto Target
Then we're talking about low framerate, not ping or latency. If not, I fear you'll have to elaborate more.
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:15
#225
Whatever it all comes down to, you can't expect the game to be based around people with bad hardware and/or connection.
That is on you, not on OOO.
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 11:40
#226
I understand that
Then why is AT so different?
Why should OOO get involved with people's decision to turn on AT? You say it promotes a bad gaming experience, but so does connection issues.
Should there also be lobbies where players are sorted by ping? Should OOO also try to detect if a player has a high-end graphics card, and sort them that way?
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 12:47
#227
@feyi
Why should it be based around people with good connections and good hardware? Unless you can provide statistics that indicate this is a majority of the player population OOO should basically base it around the largest proportion of the playerbase, whoever that is. Also, not making any moves to deliberately make those on poor connections or hardware be worse off would make more sense. You're going to benefit a small proportion of the playerbase while trying to alienate a larger quantity, most of whom already have better experiences with SK, essentially making people who have the best experience have an even better one, while making people with worse experiences even worse.
(though you are effectively saying and telling OOO that they should screw anyone on poor connections even if they form a sizeable amount of the community AND cannot do anything to fix it.)
Sat, 04/12/2014 - 13:00
#228
Hmm?
Does AT make you lag or something?
Wed, 04/16/2014 - 04:29
#229
AT Range
AT Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vU-__3PEF8
And I'm uploading 2 videos, 25k and 20k with only ATcheron combo. You should see how easy is getting damage with AT.
Wed, 04/16/2014 - 05:59
#230
^
So you're playing with 3 bars and saying something about AT range when it's the perfect latency to have your client lie to you about positions thanks to latency:
...what?
Wed, 04/16/2014 - 06:43
#231
nah, I have got 100 ping and
nah, I have got 100 ping and hardly ever lag spikes
Wed, 04/16/2014 - 11:52
#232
It's never going to be
It's never going to be removed, majority of people use it and get uv's to go along with it. This is how OOO makes there money off pvp.
Wed, 04/16/2014 - 14:16
#233
Still waiting for a reply
To why certain factors are on you, but AT is on OOO.
Wed, 04/16/2014 - 14:44
#234
Thu, 04/24/2014 - 06:52
#235
It would be so easy to create
It would be so easy to create a separated server no AT so that everybody is happy...
Fri, 05/23/2014 - 02:43
#236
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh relance ce post Ach !
Fri, 05/30/2014 - 09:39
#237
---
This thread is seriously still here?
I also really like the suggestion to base the degree of correction on your ping, that is a wonderful idea.
Fri, 05/30/2014 - 09:51
#238
gods ain't gonna help you, son.
and you just re-bumped it into first page. well done. *slow clap*
it's still here because of the low amount of flame and the author not moving it. now stop bumping.
Sat, 05/31/2014 - 01:21
#239
You can't adjust a game to compensate for the lowest common denominator, AKA the person with a bad connection and no experience/gear.
Shouldn't this be the other way around? Where everyone is always equal to start and then differences come out of the woodwork?
Like monopoly and checkers. Everyone starts out the same there, and it isn't innately biased towards any one individual beyond what is necessary. Like old people. Sure, they have "lag" when playing board games, but that's different because it isn't inherent in the design, its just kind of there.
When I go to play lockdown, it isn't fun for me because I'm inexperienced, don't use trinkets or weapon slots, and don't have gear specifically cut out for lockdown. Other popular PVP games flat out give me all of the things I need to compete, like TF2. TF2 gives you the standard set of everything, and its still the best a lot of the time.. and even then, if I want to get another weapon or something to try out, the game hands it to me free of charge moments later. If I get a hat to trade, I can get every single weapon, just like that.
Sat, 05/31/2014 - 03:09
#240
For everyone waiting for a response based on what I said: nu uh, too late.
Since this thread is now in suggestions, you could as well graveyard it.
Sat, 05/31/2014 - 09:25
#241
I only use AT with my
I only use AT with my bombs................
Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:12
#242
Alright then.
If this keeps going...
Your move.
Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:29
#243
/doze
Well I'm all against AT, but how often has OOO changed anything we wanted changed?
They mostly change stuff so its harder for us, yay (radinats, souls in apocrea).
why do you expect they will remove AT?
even if 1000 people agreed (and i bet a few hundred do, but are just not on the forums) i doubt they would change a thing.
I don't mean it bad OOO but srsly
Tue, 06/10/2014 - 05:06
#244
Bump stop talk ... Why some
Bump stop talk ... Why some people are afraid for one option? You do not know how to play? I fully understands, but go back to your game-boy guys.
Tue, 06/10/2014 - 05:48
#245
my 34 cents on the matter
AT is a tool in SK, like trinkets, gears or UVs, and OOO has clearly made it is optional for a player to use it. Who are you to tell others what tools they should use to play a game, it is like forcing a man to play CoD with only shotgun, or play DMCs without lock on. And here, OP is pretty much using the same metality on AT, but we all have to understand that AT is a game mechanic, not a cheat, nor a short cut, but a simple, game mechanic. Now please, leave the game mechanic alone, so people can choose whether or not they want to use it.
Tue, 06/10/2014 - 06:11
#246
^^^
THIS
Tue, 06/10/2014 - 08:17
#247
+1
+1
Thu, 09/04/2014 - 04:36
#248
Bumpy
Bumpy Bump!
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Cuz I like controversy
Thu, 09/04/2014 - 19:18
#249
What do you mean by all OP's?
"Xx-Hell-Demon's made up fact is just as true as any other opinion in this thread, no scratch that, any opinion period."
Not really,"Any opinion period."
More of, many opinions period.
Also can this thread be changed to,"A petition to have cool lobbies."?
Like said MANY times that people keep ignoring, LOBBIES!!!!!!!!
For AT users separated by non-AT users(an option so the AT whiners will stop.) and also..... 1v1!!!! Thats one of the things i have been waiting for! Why is it not In-game already? It is a good suggestion! :(
@MJ(A nickname lol) IKR?!?!?!?!??! D:
Fri, 09/05/2014 - 03:57
#250
Please don't do that. If a thread dies, let it die. This one has died too many times and I really would like to ask the GMs to put it in the bin but I just can't be arsed.
if you are reading this, are the numbers/percentages for UVs on the wiki up to date/accurate to your knowledge?
I think I'm gonna drop some science bombs.
No idea. Which numbers are you referring to?