Forums › English Language Forums › General › General Discussion

Search

Community weapon ratings - Swords (voting finished)

60 replies [Last post]
Mon, 08/24/2015 - 09:53
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Community weapon ratings project:
Swords - Done (results)
Bombs - Done (results)
Guns - Done (results)

--------------------------------

The voting has been concluded, you can find the results here.

More than a year ago, I made this topic discussing the creation of a list rating the various items in the game. Being so good at committing to the projects I start, I'm now intending to finish this.

To put things simply, you're here to rank the swords in the game. You rank them from 1 to 5, where 1 is the worst and 5 is the best. We're using a 1-5 scale since a lot of swords are hard to directly compare because they have vastly different usages due to damage types. To get a form of standard on the votes, there are guidelines for how you should rank items:

  1. The item is very weak and has very few or no place where it genuinely does well.
  2. The item is quite weak compared to others, but is very useful in some cases.
  3. The item can hold its own, but is generally outshone by others.
  4. The item is very strong but comes with some flaws and is not the best for all of its purposes.
  5. The item is more or less flawless and in most cases the strongest available for its purposes.

To give a few examples of how I'd reason:

  • I'd rate Winmillion as 1 due to its very low damage. Although the projectile has uses its largely troublesome thanks to dodging mechanics.
  • I'd rate Fang of Vog as 2, as its combo is worse than Brandishes in both damage and speed. The charge is incredibly powerful for some things, but it's not very sustainable unless you have a loadout specifically designed to handle the self fire.
  • I'd rate Sudaruska a 3. It has very good utility and the charge has the potential to output a ton of damage but falls short on combo damage, often making Divine Avenger or Gran Faust more desirable.
  • I'd rate Glacius a 4. It's an incredibly powerful sword, but the Freeze hinders some damage from the charge and can be problematic if you don't interrupt monsters, which often happens in larger groups on expert.
  • I'd rate Final Flourish 4 as well. While its high speed and large reach is incredibly useful for fiends who are easily interrupted, it doesn't have very good damage and even though it may be the best sword for beasts, it's not really as good as Dark Briar Barrage for dealing with groups of wolvers, which are very commonly encountered in beast levels.
  • I'd rate Warmaster Rocket Hammer 5. While the charge is not great, the combo is insanely powerful and outdoes the elemental Brandishes significantly if used correctly.

You don't have to explain your reasoning for your votes, but try to keep these guidelines in mind. I'll refrain from being strict with how the guidelines are followed, but obvious trolls will be removed. I just don't think anyone would rate Acheron 2/5, you know.

Lastly, a few more rules:

  • Trying to vote multiple times by using alts is forbidden.
  • You need to have at least 7 5* swords (a third of all items voted for) and 20 5* items overall to be eligible for voting.
  • To verify the above rule, take a screenshot (or several if needed) to showcase said items.
  • If you use different names on the forums and in game, you'll need to state something like "I am Krakob-Is-Renamed and this screenshot is for the swords rating thingy".
  • Exceptions can be made for people who wish to remain anonymous, provided they either get in touch with me (IGN: Krakob) or have a reputation of being very knowledgeable here on the forums.
  • Don't consider Lockdown performance when voting. We can do that on a later date, if there's enough interest.
  • Don't consider how easy it is to get an item when voting. Leviathan Blade isn't stronger because its recipe is free if you do missions.
  • Maintain the format of the template linked below, as I'll try to use automatic methods of sorting votes into a spreadsheet.

So how do you vote?

  1. Head over here and copy the contents of the paste into a post in this thread and fill in the numbers.
  2. Take a screenshot showcasing your items in-game and reference to your forum name if necessary. Take several screenshots if you can't fit the items into one screenie.
  3. Upload said screenshot(s) to Steam or Imgur. Put the link at the bottom of your post.
  4. Done!
Mon, 08/24/2015 - 10:01
#1
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Verification: 1, 2

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 4
Dread Venom Striker: 3
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 3
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 2
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 3
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 2
Voltedge: 4
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 1
Faust (4*): 1
Winmillion: 1

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 11:06
#2
Reto-Da-Liz's picture
Reto-Da-Liz

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 5
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 4
Divine Avenger: 4
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 2
Final Flourish: 5
Furious Flamberge: 1
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 4
Leviathan Blade: 2
Obsidian Edge: 3
Sudaruska: 2
Triglav: 2
Voltedge: 5
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 4
Wild Hunting Blade: 1
Faust (4*): 3
Winmillion: 1

My 5* shizzle nowadays.

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 11:14
#3
Krakob's picture
Krakob

For anyone wondering, Reto is a veteran player and he's had way more stuff so his verification is ok. Thanks for the votes!

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 09:19
#4
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I'll verify later. Not at my pc right now.

Acheron: 2
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 2
Divine Avenger: 3
Dread Venom Striker: 3
Fang of Vog: 3
Fearless Rigadoon: 5
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 1
Glacius: 3
Gran Faust: 2
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 4
Triglav: 4
Voltedge: 2
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 3
Faust (4*): 3
Winmillion: 3

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 11:56
#5
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Don't worry, I think we all know you well enough for that to be unnecessary.

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 13:14
#6
Mouzzie

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 4
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 3
Fearless Rigadoon: 3
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 3
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 3
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 5
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 3
Voltedge: 4
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 4
Wild Hunting Blade: 1
Faust (4*): 2
Winmillion: 1

Screenshot

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 13:28
#7
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Krakob

I know but I'll do it because I can.

Verificantion image- http://i.imgur.com/OQ0QE.jpg

It's from 2012 and I've came a long, long, long way since then but I think it would still qualify as "good enough".

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 13:32
#8
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Well darn, now I miss the old icons :(

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 05:38
#9
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

I feel like chiming in for the sake of doing so, even if I'm not counted (don't know why I wouldn't be, but just saying). Also putting a description for the weapons that are worth a description, because it just feels incomplete without one. Considering I'm not a spectacular writer, just skip them.

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 5
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 4
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 2
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 1
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 5
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 3
Voltedge: 5
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 1
Faust (4*): 5
Winmillion: 2

And some verification I guess. Shame I don't have twenty 5* swords to work with.

Mon, 08/24/2015 - 18:57
#10
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

All swords get a 1 from me.
Take that, automated analysis.

Why? Until they fix this, 4* items aren't really that much of a damage difference. Considering the jump in resources, none of the weapons are particularly worth upgrading unless you have an excessive quantity lying around. The two that only come in the 5* variety aren't particularly good either.

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 01:21
#11
Enfeebler's picture
Enfeebler
*Celestial Saber&Sweet Dreams: 3&2

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 2
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 4
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 3
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 3
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 4
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 3
Voltedge: 4
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 2
Faust (4*): 3
Winmillion: 1

[Verification] - that should do it.

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 07:00
#12
Bopp's picture
Bopp
so many 0 subjects

It's good to see that our lengthy discussion didn't permanently derail this idea, and that you settled on a simple rating system. Nevertheless, the exercise was pretty difficult. In particular, I don't remember Faust clearly. Here's verification of sorts.

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 3
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 3
Fearless Rigadoon: 2
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 1
Glacius: 3
Gran Faust: 3
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 2
Triglav: 2
Voltedge: 4
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 2
Faust (4*): 1
Winmillion: 1

Tue, 08/25/2015 - 22:55
#13
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 4
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 3
Fearless Rigadoon: 2
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 2
Glacius: 3
Gran Faust: 3
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 2
Triglav: 3
Voltedge: 4
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 3
Faust (4*): 2
Winmillion: 1
Someone didn't follow his own instructions, what a rebel

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 03:39
#14
Coreonn's picture
Coreonn
Boop.

My verification will follow in a few days when I get home from my holliday, I wish you the best of luck with finnishing this and I'm pretty sure there be quite a bit of interest in a lockdown version of this thread.

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 3
Dread Venom Striker: 3
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 3
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 3
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 3
Leviathan Blade: 1
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 2
Voltedge: 5
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 2
Faust (4*): 2
Winmillion: 1

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 06:48
#15
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Good to see so many participating, I was worried there'd be less. I'll collect the results Monday 7/9, two weeks after posting the OP. Feel free to modify your votes until then.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 08:49
#16
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
....

1.Acheron: 5
Blatantly overpowered and in desperate need of a nerf.

2.Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Fast and powerful but the charge is fairly strong with a very short range.

3.Cold Iron Vanquisher: 2
Moderate power, defensive aoe charge. Decent all around but in need of a buff. Highly specialized in what monsters you hunt with it.

4.Combuster: 5
Strong, quick, good damage and status. Punches holes in crowds of light enemies but only moderately strong against larger targets

5.Divine Avenger: 5
Powerful, defensively viable combo and charge. Great for walling off chokepoints with charges.

6.Dread Venom Striker: 3
Narrower Aoe than swing suggests and low flinch rate. Excellent as a push and leading combo weapon. Charge has no flinch and requires dodging prior to counterattacking.

7.Fang of Vog: 4
Very powerful charge and able to ignite enemies on any swing. Slower than most swords and the self fire hits glass cannon sets hard making the charge suicidal. Biggest downside is the lack of fire resistant sword CTR increasing sets.

8.Fearless Rigadoon: 4
Viable attack and charge but the lack of increased status chance on the charge is the only downside.

9.Final Flourish: 5
Viable attack and charge

10.Furious Flamberge: 4
Viable attack and charge but the lack of increased status chance on the charge is the only downside

11.Glacius: 5
Strong charge, fast swing and a status that facilitates easy weapon charge. Lower damage and hindered knockback are the downsides.

12.Gran Faust: 3
Outclassed in terms of damage by the Acheron, slow swing speed, slow charge with chance of self curse, small charge AOE. Only upsides are standard swing AOE and Status on combo.

13.Leviathan Blade: 4
Solid, reliable, with a very defensive charge attack.

14.Obsidian Edge: 5
Strong charge, good swing speed. Enemy heal denial is the greatest perk of this weapon.

15.Sudaruska: 3
Slow, wide AOE, strong knockback. Fails as an offensive weapon but allows a knight to cut off chokepoints to protect allies. Charge is risky and hard to aim.

16.Triglav: 2
Slow, wide AOE, strong knockback. Fails as an offensive weapon but allows a knight to cut off chokepoints to protect allies. Status can prevent knockback and has similar flaws as Sudaruska.

17.Voltedge: 4
Strong charge, fast swing. Status deals spread damage and hinders enemy movement but doesn't prevent it.

18.Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 4
Fast and strong but has a steep learning curve. Charge attack is risky but doesn't outclass combo.

19.Wild Hunting Blade: 4
Works well as a blade to fight wolvers but the charge attack is better suited to slower enemies.

20.Faust (4*): 3
Outclassed in terms of damage by the Silent Nightblade, slow swing speed, slow charge with chance of self curse, small charge AOE. Only upsides are standard swing AOE and Status on combo.

21.Winmillion: 2
Quirky weapon, reliable combo but mediocre damage. Charge attack is buggy at times and more difficult to aim than other blades. Very light damage on the charge. Line ends at 4 star.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 09:18
#17
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Holy-Nightmare

You forgot some sort of credentials via a picture. Not that I'm doubting you, of course.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 10:24
#18
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

Sometimes stuff gets sold when certain promos come around...... I vendored a few items when the Sprite Prize box came out. Rest assured I have had most of the items on the list.

Exceptions: Glacius (never sucked at dodging), Triglav (You know I hate LD), Winmillion (I dumped it at the 2 star)

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 11:09
#19
Krakob's picture
Krakob

You'll need to format the post like the others or I can't really automate the counting process. You could just put a plain list further down the post I guess.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 11:59
#20
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
Blech

1.Acheron: 5
2.Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
3.Cold Iron Vanquisher: 2
4.Combuster: 5
5.Divine Avenger: 5
6.Dread Venom Striker: 3
7.Fang of Vog: 4
8.Fearless Rigadoon: 4
9.Final Flourish: 5
10.Furious Flamberge: 4
11.Glacius: 5
12.Gran Faust: 3
13.Leviathan Blade: 4
14.Obsidian Edge: 5
15.Sudaruska: 3
16.Triglav: 2
17.Voltedge: 4
18.Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 4
19.Wild Hunting Blade: 4
20.Faust (4*): 3
21.Winmillion: 2

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 12:29
#21
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Yaay let's give it a go

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 3
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 3
Dread Venom Striker: 4
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 3
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 2
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 4
Leviathan Blade: 3
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 3
Voltedge: 4
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 3
Faust (4*): 4
Winmillion: 2

NOTE: These rating are more from personal experience. My playstyle may not match yours and it may also be swayed because of crafting UVs when I made the item.

Some of my ratings are off and I didn't comment on the ones that I don't have. Only one I have and haven't ever used is the Triglav (frozen great cleaver) but my playing with my Sudaruska (mighty great cleaver) gave me some insights to it.

Here are list of the few weapons that I'm making assumptions on, rather than off of use:
Cold Iron Vanquisher
Final Flourish
Glacius
Wild Hunting Blade

Now here's some explanations on some of my strange reasonings behind certain ratings:

BTB is less than the final flourish because I can't for the life of me make that charge attack be effective. Final flourish is better as it moves you towards your foes instead of rooting you in place against the two main enemy types that dodge and are good at hitting you when you stand still.

Cold Iron Vanquisher gets a 1 simply because the only time its charge attack would be handy would be VS howlitzers, and its normal swings are easily outclassed by all brandishes.

DVS is a 4 simply because that playstyle is so fun to me. I've been spoiled with ASI: VH since crafting it as my cutter however, so I'm not surprised if the general synopsis is that it is worse. I've known that damage boost + ASI on cutters makes them brutal, but they are my go-to weapon along with a callahan when I have two slots and am going up against fiends or beasts.
Will admit it's barely a 4, but for me, it just works so well. I'll bring it to heart of ice over a flourish or even a blitz needle, and it makes the Maulos fight genuinely fun rather than Lord Vanaduke 2: frozen boogaloo.

Fang of Vog gets a 2 because the charge is fun, but everything else about it is a bugger to use. It is balanced I'll give it that, just not my style of a weapon.

Rigadoon is over flamberg because it is useful against the enemies it's strong against. Flamberg is not.

I think that's all the "fangel why" ratings I have. Hopefully it gives some insight to my weapon ratings and whatnot.
Heck with Apocrea over now I should do a DVS + slug run through Dreams and Nightmares and see how it works for me. That's typically what I run with for that unique swarm arena in it came from below so I can't imagine I'd do terrible with it.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 12:20
#22
Krakob's picture
Krakob

@Holy Nightmare
Thanks! I can work with that.

@Fangel
I'd prefer all the ratings in the same list if you don't mind. A bit less copy pasting and less room for error in the end. Anyhow, if you feel like your UVs are skewing your votes, take some time to reconsider. Votes should of course be based on the weapon in general, not someone's particular instance of it.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 12:49
#23
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Ehh

See my opinions are swayed because of the UVs, but what I have is actually very easy to recreate with a swiftstrike buckler and a damage-boosting armor of choice. If you want raw values of swords without any sort of boosts i.e. their base forms, then it'll change a couple of my numbers, but players are encouraged to bring as high of damage as they can as is.

Personally I think that the acheron is not into OP range without damage boosts, and sudaruska without ASI or CTR of any sort is dreadfully painful. Without thinking certain UVs or stat-enhancing gear, it makes a lot of my opinions change.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 12:52
#24
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Of course some weapons will require bonuses to work well, but you should use the same basis (e.g. no UVs but a swiftstrike or class armour of choice) for your votes.

Wed, 08/26/2015 - 13:30
#25
Fangel's picture
Fangel
Yeah

Then my votes sorta stay the same then. The +1 to ASI isn't much of a change from +3 to +4, especially with something already fast like a cutter, and I rarely use my swiftstrike with my DVS as is.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 05:49
#26
Neometal's picture
Neometal
i like trains

1.Acheron: 5
Undoubtedly the strongest of the 3 shadow swords. Since the first apocrea, it does more dmg vs beast than a btb/ff, and nearly as much dmg to construct than an elemental brandish. It'll even do a few hunder dmg to undead/fiend if you find yourself using it in that situation (like in a danger room).

2.Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4,5
While toothpicks are the best swords vs fiends, not giving max since acheron beats them vs beasts. No human alive ever will convince me that flourishes are better than this, so I'll be rating this higher than the ff. The charge of this is easier to handle and safer, plus you can actually hit stuff with it, unlike with the other 3 ones.

3.Cold Iron Vanquisher: 2
This sword.. meh. I've never had one (only used to own a cic), but this sword is just a plain waste. Weaker than the levi, less knockback, noty.

4.Combuster: 5
fire>shock>freeze Imo best of the 3 ele brandishes, the fire can give that extra dmg you'd need to finish off that few hundred hp monsters, which would stay alive if you were using the other statuses. Ofc if you just switch to a gun or hit them again it won't matter that much.

5.Divine Avenger: 5
I find that most ppl don't use this awesome sword over the brandishes. Mabye it is the lack of their dmg/asi, idk. The knockback of the 2nd hit can send monsters flying away, I always like using it vs mecha knights and kats. The charge, while it's a bit slower than the brandishes can do massive amounts of dmg, especially pair with a vortex. Although everything is good with a vortex.

6.Dread Venom Striker: 2
I only use cutters for goofing around. The poison is a nice touch, but you can't rly use this vs multiple foes and the charge, unless used against stationary or distracted monsters can end up in loosing unneccessary hp. Low base dmg, but at least the fast swing speed, esp with vh to max asi, makes it an incredibly fun weapon to use. Fun fact: flashcharging a cutter will give you 20 hits total!

7.Fang of Vog: 3
Another goofing around weapon which I use like twice a year. Charge is powerful, but not even 23 points of fire resistance will help against the self-dmg... With max asi it has the same speed as a normal 3hitter w/o asi, so yeah.

8.Fearless Rigadoon: 3
It's a flourish. And does less dmg. Noty. If I realy wanted stun, I'd just shieldbash.

9.Final Flourish: 4
Same dmg as btb, blah blah, everybody knows that. The charge can leave you vulnerable, and I've seen far too many players sliding off enemies or not even hitting one of them in the first place...

10.Furious Flamberge: 3
Yeahhhh.... So this should be good, right guys? Fire can give more dmg right? Right? You know what'd give more dmg? If you did more dmg/hit in the first place!

11.Glacius: 4
This wep if for those who prefer crowd control over dmg, so obvioulsy the weakest of the brandishes (apart from the cautery which noone has ever used). The problem with this is that the explosions of the charge, and most of the times the monsters among themselves can break the ice which kills the idea of the weapon. It can still be good to freeze key targets, like trojans or vana.

12.Gran Faust: 4
Man this thing takes ages to charge even with max ctr (thx punch for the epic uv). The curse not always happens (both to you and monsters) and even when it does it won't matter that much - the monsters will be weekend, erm weakened by the projectile. The normal hits on the other hand offer that sweet sweet knockback, and the curse of the 2nd hit is a nice added bonus.

13.Leviathan Blade: 3
The levi is what it is: a plain old boring normal dmg wep, with a decent charge. Not terrible, but not terrific either.

14.Obsidian Edge: 4
Ah, the acheron's weaker sibling. While poison is an excellent support tool, and the best thing to cockblock menders ever since they lost their ember bolt, most of the times the acheron will be a better choice. When you consider that you need ctr to gain the strength of this weapon, plus that you could just use a maskeraith, venom veiler, etc for poison, this makes this weapon less appealing.

15.Sudaruska: 3
The troika-lines are again one of those weps I only use to mess around. Slower than the sealed swords, less dmg, but the charge somewhat makes up for those. Have you ever used it vs gremlins? It's freaking hillarious! If you have enough dmg, the first hit (of the charge ofc) will flinch them, and grems do that by landing on their backs. Then comes the 2nd hit of the charge, which kills them, and they start their death animation: a backflip.
Gremlins can do a backflip, from lying on their backs! Freaking acrobatist.

16.Triglav: 3
I've only used this for those 10 mins between I crafted it for arm app and deposited for 300 juicy points, though I did mess around w/ its 4* counterpart for a bit. The freeze over the stun didn't matter to me that much, not even for the 2nd hit (which the suda doesn't have - OOO pls), so this goes in the same category as its other alchemy path.

17.Voltedge: 4
Shock is a mid bw fire and freeze: bit of dmg and bit of cc. Being the greedy person I am (and since I didn't want to have 2 ele brandishes), I decided to sell my combi and glacius in exchange for this to have the 2 things at once. The shock can sometimes do decent dmg if there are a bunch of enemies clumpled up together, as you know, each shock spasm dmg-s every monster, if there are 4 zm next to each other, and all spasm, that is 4x29 dmg to every one of them. Which is ofc still less than what fire would do, but the shock also stops them.

18.Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Charge is utter garbage, don't use it unless you wana push others around. The normal attack wrecks everything. And is fun to use. Due to it being this op, I only use it during events.

19.Wild Hunting Blade: 2
Same as dvs: weak, but fast, fun to use. The dmg bonus won't matter to most of the players (chaos and bk), but even though this doesn't have a status, the flinch rate is better on this one (which I still don't understand why when they do the same dmg...). The attack and charge animations are epic, must-have #swag weapon.

20.Faust (4*): 3
Less dmg than the 5* version, but the charge doesn't take a year, so this can hold it's own even in t3. If you want to use the charge more often, and don't mind the less dmg (or if you simply don't have enough rads for reasons) leave it at 4*.

21.Winmillion: 1; (-17)
Just, just no. Even if it had a 5* version, I still wouldn't make it. The levi would be still better. As many have said it, the projectile instead of adding plus dmg, can result in monsters dodging away.

bonus:
22-23.
I'd rate the celestial saber and the sweet dreams a 2-2: not cheap to get, added stun on charge is meh, the pillow does less dmg than the levi anyways.

Lazy for taking pics, so here is my steam inventory.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 06:30
#27
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I do appreciate that you explain your reasoning but to process all the votes I'll need you to make a simple list as well, like this

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 07:18
#28
Neometal's picture
Neometal
asdf

1.Acheron: 5
2.Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4,5
3.Cold Iron Vanquisher: 2
4.Combuster: 5
5.Divine Avenger: 5
6.Dread Venom Striker: 2
7.Fang of Vog: 3
8.Fearless Rigadoon: 3
9.Final Flourish: 4
10.Furious Flamberge: 3
11.Glacius: 4
12.Gran Faust: 4
13.Leviathan Blade: 3
14.Obsidian Edge: 4
15.Sudaruska: 3
16.Triglav: 3
17.Voltedge: 4
18.Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
19.Wild Hunting Blade: 2
20.Faust (4*): 3
21.Winmillion: 1; (-17)

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 09:43
#29
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

fixing your parser to accept posts like #16 and #26 shouldn't be a problem.

it's really just
(number.)(optional white space)(weapon name): (score)(ignore any non-digits after this)
skip all other lines.
if you make the initial number optional you can get #21 as well.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 10:18
#30
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I'm just using an excel sheet, so even if I can do that with Regex, it'll be a bit hard.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 10:49
#31
Bopp's picture
Bopp
most should, yes

Most regular expression engines should be able to handle this, yes. On the other hand, the programming gets harder if people start getting looser than that. And it's reasonable to ask people to follow a simple format with examples available.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 11:17
#32
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
1. Furious Flam burg: 1 2.

1. Furious Flam burg: 1
2. Gla cius: Three

3. Gran 8 Faust: DOS!
4. Levi4than Blade: 3
5 .Obsidian Edge: 4

Parse that, Krakob and regular expressions.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 11:59
#33
Krakob's picture
Krakob
@Fehzor

Mostly doable. First off, we split the the strings at :. This gives us whatever is in front and what is behind as two separate strings.

For the first part, the name, we start by removing all non-letters. This will result in strings like "GranFaust" but it fixes your liberal use of the space bar as seen in Furious Flam burg. As for the typos, I'm guessing we can use some way of approximating which item you're referring to by having a separate list of the items with their correct spelling, but I've never done anything like that. After all that, the name is repaired. We can reinstate the spaces where they belong in names by adding a space between every lowercase and uppercase letter.

For the second part, the number, we start by making every letter lowecase and removing every character that's not a digit or letter. We try to convert the remaining string to a number. If it fails, we know that it has letters so we plug it in the Google Translate API, ask it to identify the language and translate to english. We should now have a string that's a number between 1-5 written out. Now we can just use a hashtable where 'one' gives 1, 'two' gives 2, etc. and we got ourselves our rating.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 14:18
#34
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Very good! I knew you could do it!

ROUND TWO!

1. Furious Flam burg: 11111111111111111
2. Gla cius: Thre
3. Gran8Faust: IDK
4. Lev-1-athan Blade
5 .Obsidian Edge: Zapados

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 14:23
#35
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Well, I fail to interpret these so I wouldn't be able to make a machine do it for me.

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 14:37
#36
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

Honestly, I thought about hiding some html tags with multiple lists just to throw off an automated web crawler, but doubted you'd put that much time into it.

@Krakob round #2 response:
Take first character, modulus 5 the unicode value and normalize to 1-5's actual values.
Any line that doesn't have a correct weapon name followed with a single number should be dropped anyway (otherwise you'd catch all the normal lines with text which sparked this derailment).

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 14:36
#37
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Fehzor shudders.

Not even I would dare to do something like that to poor Krakob D:

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 14:41
#38
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Yep. I just copy the lists into a google sheet, run them through a simple custom function that extracts the number, and then get the average value. I don't know how I can properly sort the results by rating though, so I wrote a short python script to handle that.

Good solution, by the way!

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 14:48
#39
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

Google docs?
Cell D2 may be something like what you would have wanted (I was clever with some spaces to ensure they lined up correctly).

Thu, 08/27/2015 - 22:36
#40
Idiosyncrasies's picture
Idiosyncrasies
ohai

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 3
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 2
Divine Avenger: 2
Dread Venom Striker: 1
Fang of Vog: 1
Fearless Rigadoon: 1
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 1
Glacius: 1
Gran Faust: 2
Leviathan Blade: 1
Obsidian Edge: 2
Sudaruska: 1
Triglav: 1
Voltedge: 5
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 1
Faust (4*): 1
Winmillion: 1

1*: Pretty much useless swords, would only equip them for the fun part of it.

Troika line : Kinda trash compared to sealed swords that overpower them on every stat.

Glacius 1* : Because Ice.

Combuster 2* : Its pushback is just awful, no matter what you say about the increased charge damage, you'll still have to chase after the remaining mobs to land the last hits.

Divine avenger 2* : The only time I used this sword was for Twins boss level, no longer necessary thanks to grim repeater. Its pushback is a turn off as much as the combuster.

Gran faust 2* : Outpowered by acheron, for LD usage only.

Obsidian edge 2* : Acheron does a way higher damage. I just can't take the most advantage of the poison status as it takes one or two swings to get the job done. I rarely exceed 2 party people.

Flourish line 3* to 4* : Useful against fiends. Not the case for a beast themed run except maybe for its wide swing in 1v2+ situations, as the acheron does similar damage without pushback. Can be useful in landing a last hit too on ashtails and trojans or opening boxes. Prefer flourish over the barb due to its accessibility and charge.

Voltedge 5* : Charge deals huge amount of damage, just as much as the whole brandish line, but >>> no pushback <<.

WRH 5* : Unique and non stagnant playstyle. Devastating when you dash through a shocked mob, or against mobs that happen to stand next to a support (walls, graves..). Fastest way to go through obstacles (rocks, wooden barriers..). Never leaves my inventory alongside Electron vortex and acheron.

Acheron 5* : Would take it to fsc as main weapon.

will post screenshot later.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 00:10
#41
Krakob's picture
Krakob
@Idiosyncrasies

I think your votes might be a bit polarised, given that you gave more than half of the items a 1 and only a single 3 and 4. Could you review the guidellines and update your votes, maybe?

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 05:33
#42
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven

Please regrade with a gaussian distribution of mean 3.1 and standard deviation 1.2. Frankly, I don't see many players switching up weapons, so I expected much lower averages. My ranking average is 1 because I don't use swords (mostly for safety reasons since I don't use trinkets either).

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 06:10
#43
Krakob's picture
Krakob

I haven't studied statistics or whatever might touch these subjects so I honestly have no idea what that means.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 06:28
#44
Bopp's picture
Bopp
don't worry about it

Don't worry about trying to make this study rigorous. Just get it done, I'd say.

And post #40 is self-inconsistent in various ways. I'm not sure what you want to make of that.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 08:09
#45
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Yeah I'd like to see post #40's validation.. if they have the bulk of the items in question and are taking this seriously then they should be allowed to vote though.

@Skepticraven

Considering the jump in resources, none of the weapons are particularly worth upgrading unless you have an excessive quantity lying around.

The thread ignores costs-

Don't consider how easy it is to get an item when voting. Leviathan Blade isn't stronger because its recipe is free if you do missions

Otherwise I'd be rather inclined to agree with you- why waste time on a slightly stronger swipe when you can get a massive bomb radius, or extra ricochets?
---
I'd also argue that some swords are actually safer to use than guns/bombs on occasion, or make using guns/bombs even safer.. for instance, rigadoon and flourishes can be used to swipe away grievers, pierce through crowds, things that when used alongside a gun can be quite strong. Another instance of this would be sudaruska's ability to slash all of the enemies into a pile and away from your knight. You could use your gun to dodge between them or shield bump them, but those things require more finesse and are arguably riskier.

"The item is very weak and has very few or no place where it genuinely does well."

Just doesn't seem reasonable for literally every sword, even if the premise that swords are worse because guns/bombs are safer is both under-appreciated and fairly accurate.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 21:12
#46
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

@Krakob-Is-Renamed

This is a Gaussian distribution. Standard deviations are along the bottom, the percentages refer to how much of the data is under that part of the curve. General rule of thumb: 68% of the data is within +/- 1 standard deviations from the mean, 95% is within +/- 2 standard deviations, and 99.7% is within +/- 3 standard deviations.

Also, I'm really bored so I feel like posting a response to this thread. The problem is my steam account got hacked a while ago and Valve has yet to get back to me. Thus I can't login and get a screenshot of my gear. The only verification I can offer is my SK playtime being about 2237 hrs (Steam name Rangrok, IGN Anakletos).

Acheron: 5
Barbarous Thorn Blade: 4
Cold Iron Vanquisher: 1
Combuster: 5
Divine Avenger: 3
Dread Venom Striker: 2
Fang of Vog: 2
Fearless Rigadoon: 2
Final Flourish: 4
Furious Flamberge: 2
Glacius: 4
Gran Faust: 3
Leviathan Blade: 2
Obsidian Edge: 4
Sudaruska: 3
Triglav: 3
Voltedge: 5
Warmaster Rocket Hammer: 5
Wild Hunting Blade: 1
Faust (4*): 2
Winmillion: 1

EDIT***
Woo Valve finally returned my Steam account back to me. It only took them 27-ish days but w/e!
Swords
Guns (plus a few more)
My pathetic collection of bombs
I don't feel like screenshotting my armor/shields. There should be more than 20 5* items in the above screenshots.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 14:59
#47
Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
↓

@Krakob

That was a joke originally from phdcomics.com about someone's expectation of how a dataset will statistically be distributed. (Most commonly used to manipulate scholarly exam results). I'd link to the exact comic, but their site search function is non-existent (with no alt text for google to even help).

@Fehzor

In my analysis, I ignored cost as well. Tacking on cost sways the value of the 5* versions even lower.

Given the available damage types for autoguns, swords can't be the best single target DPS weapons.
Given the pushiness and interrupt potential of magnus guns, swords can't be the best at those.
Status application goes to haze-class bombs.

This pulls down my available range of decision from 1-3 (given the wording and the degree I feel they are outclassed by those 3 items above).
Swords don't really have a specific place in my arsenal and the only time that I use them is when I'm doing a themed run with friends. I only particularly use them in ways I use shard bombs - to be inefficient and have some fun. Thus, my scoring reflects that. There will be significantly more variation for guns/bombs.

Fri, 08/28/2015 - 15:05
#48
Bopp's picture
Bopp
you may be interested

Skepticraven, you may be interested in this current Arsenal thread, where Fehzor makes roughly the same argument that brandishes (but not other swords) are weaker than everyone thinks.

Fri, 09/04/2015 - 05:19
#49
Krakob's picture
Krakob

Just 3 days left to vote, for anyone interested. I'll close for submissions and publish the results in this thread sometime during monday. I'll also publish a thread for voting on bombs or guns. Which would you all prefer?

I'm currently set on not including Idio's and Skepticraven's ratings. Neither of you have provided proof and your votes are quite polarised to say the least.

Fri, 09/04/2015 - 05:36
#50
Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

My vote is for bombs next because it would be quick and simple so we could just get it over with; there's twenty bombs in the game in comparison to thirty-one guns.

  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system