Why to shard bomb

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Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare

Shard bombs are relatively weak bombs that excel in spreading damage. By themselves a shard bomber will only be able to soften up enemies for allies without creating the knockback of the popular blast bombs or the lack of damage haze bombs have.

The shard bomb is basically the noob friendly bomb, it has a good charge rate, not too much knockback, decent damage, high mobility, and most important the fact that it hardly ever misses.

A group of shard bombers that stick together and place bombs near each others will quickly decimate a group of monsters.

The shard bombs have a type distribution that allows it's wielders to pick any type of damage they want.

The best shard bomb (in my opinion) is the Shocking salt bomb.

It provides great slime damage, good gremlin damage, the shock status does good damage to constructs, and the beasts (with a simple mindset) will also take fair damage. This allows it to cover 4/6 monster types.

But the number one reason to use shard bombs is if someone else is using one.

Krakob's picture
Krakob

I'm no bomber, but I disagree with a lot of this.
[...] a shard bomber will only be able to soften up enemies for allies without creating the knockback of the popular blast bombs [...]
The knockback of a shard bomb is rather unpredictable as there are several points of explosion, which would not be a big problem if it was not because multihitting an enemy makes seem rather random. A blast bomb has predictable knockback and a rhythm in its explosions as long as the bomber does not screw up (or they time their bombs to interrupt/hit more, in which case it's a good bomber and it shouldn't be a bigger hassle).

The shard bomb is basically the noob friendly bomb, it has a good charge rate, not too much knockback, decent damage, high mobility, and most important the fact that it hardly ever misses.
Shard bombs evidently have crappy damage, along with way too many bugs that just screw you over. Additionally, I'm rather sure they have a steeper learning curve due to the extremely long time between dropping the bomb and having the shards explode. And the bugs. You need to understand and avoid the bugs.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
The blast bombs are nice but

The blast bombs are nice but they have the unfortunate side effect of knocking enemies into allies. (which makes them not noob friendly) Shards don't and while the knockback isn't predictable the enemy stays in the same general area where it got hit (blast bombs can put enemies on the other side of the field). Because the shard knockback isn't strong you allies can attack while you bomb and not worry about getting a slime blasted into their face or out of their charge attack.

Shard bombs do have bad damage (but a good uv in the right spot can fix that plus with monster specific pet perks you can grab some decent damage) but they are not made for standing relatively still and chainbombing. Shards are made for the highly mobile bomber who wants to run, do damage, and not get the monsters that are chasing him blasted into him.

The shard bomb is not a haze bomb that you drop once for status or a blast bomb that you chain for defensive knockback. The point of this bomb is to turn a battlefield into damaging a monster hazard.

Legenddestroyer's picture
Legenddestroyer

Not and experienced shardbomber here, but I have experimented with the 2* versions (and watched a good amount of Shard Squad). From the limited time I have had and reading other stuff. shards start to have bugs when you hit enemies with too many shards. Adding to this the fact that the bright explosions cause some lag and distract teammates, and I would say that shard bombs are definitely not for the weak-of-heart.

Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato

The DBB is a much more "noob-friendly" bomb, because of the low knockback yet high disruption.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Explain to me why I would ever want to use shard bombs over ash of agni or voltaic tempest, provided the enemies that I am fighting are not immune to both, and that none of my team mates are bombing in the exact same manner as myself. i.e. three shard bombers all running away from enemies would probably outdamage ash of agni. But that scenario as the big reason to get shards over haze bombs is kind of cheap reasoning-- few people use shard bombs seriously, and even fewer people want to play the role of damaging support bomber often enough and outside of arenas.

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven

Haze bombs are limited to only elemental damage.
Status shards (SSS and SSS) are shadow and pierce.

Situation specific for a slight advantage.

Stingz's picture
Stingz
@Skepticraven

Nitro, Dark Retribution, and DBB cover damage dealing, though DR is DLC.
Knockback from the second set of shards really make shard bombs hard to use safely.

Might pick up a 4* Salt bomb out of boredom, they seem to work like DR but with a fuse on the projectiles.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Skepticraven

But did you know?
Shard bombs are already outclassed in terms of damage (we all know this), making voltaic tempest/ash of agni the better option when fighting an assortment of enemies?
Shard bombs have unruly knockback, while ash of agni and voltaic tempest do not?
Ash of Agni stacks with voltaic tempest, while shard bombs do not typically stack with one another so well due to how slow the status is to spread?

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
@Fehzor

"Shard bombs are already outclassed in terms of damage (we all know this), making voltaic tempest/ash of agni the better option when fighting an assortment of enemies?"

No. That is just like saying FSC is the best place for farm crowns (we all know this) [it actually isn't].
Just because you don't know how to use them yet does not mean they aren't useful.
As I've said in other threads they are excellent defensive bombs that deal faster damage to slow enemies than blast bombs or can add in a status to the damage.
Holy-Nightmare said it fairly well: "Shard bombs do have bad damage [snip] but they are not made for standing relatively still and chainbombing. Shards are made for the highly mobile bomber who wants to run, do damage, and not get the monsters that are chasing him blasted into him."

But did you know?
VT deals super little damage with the status and only really acts as a shivermist for ice themed monsters?
AoA's only real good use is melting the ice cubes?

Dibsville's picture
Dibsville

I've noticed that, Voltaic Tempest and Deadly Crystal Bomb actually do relatively similar damage output, but VT becomes unusable in Shock stratums, and it's main draw is from enemies spasming against other enemies in large groups rather than just outright attacking enemies.

You could argue that VT is better as a support bomb, but then, wouldn't you just use Shivermist, Stagger Storm, or Ash of Agni?

Deadly Crystal Bomb is actually a pretty solid Elemental bomb, and with no Elemental blast bombs to overshadow it, there's not much keeping it from being the best Elemental bomb IMO. The only place I can really think of where Voltaic Tempest is actually better than it would be Compounds, and like I just said, wouldn't you just use some other vaporizer anyway?

But I guess that's just one of the many shard bombs...

The-Vindicar's picture
The-Vindicar
Useless bomb is useless.

The big problem with shard bombs is that they seem to have a hole in the center of their blast pattern. You know, right where you're standing, and right where enemy will try to get. And since shard bombs take longer to actually explode, there is a good chance that enemy WILL get there. More than once I've seen zombies jumping straight into the middle of the shard ring and staying completely unharmed by the explosion.

So I agree that DBB is the most newbie-friendly bomb. I've started this line after playing with Sun Shards, and found it superior - DBB line allows for good movement speed while charging, has nice solid AoE and decent chance of flinching, plus it explodes faster.

Cinoa's picture
Cinoa
Fun... Is... INFINITE.

Lol, my friend was going to try SK out, and I told him if he ever plays, never NEVER make any shard bombs!
Was that a good move?

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@the-Vindicar

To quote myself "Shard bombs do have bad damage but they are not made for standing relatively still and chainbombing. Shards are made for the highly mobile bomber who wants to run, do damage, and not get the monsters that are chasing him blasted into him."

You are not creating area denial, you are creating a trail of damage behind you (like an evil slug XD). Blast bombs are for area denial, haze for status spread, vortex enemy collection, Dark retribution constant damage in an area.

Jenovasforumchar's picture
Jenovasforumchar

After watching one of Zeddys Shard fights vs Vanaduke, I did use my 4* Radiant Sun Shard along with my Polaris to solo Vana for my first time (No Deaths, not even Emergency Rev used, and this with an evil delay).

This was only possible, because shards have these delayed secound hits - a time in which Vana can rush upon the bomb and get its full damage. Another bomb explodes too fast for this to work.

So I can recommend using Shards in a Vana fight if you value safety and play solo or in a bad team.

Legenddestroyer's picture
Legenddestroyer
@Jenovasforumchar

I thought there was a bug when more than 3?4? shards (incl. blast) hit the enemy, the shards don't function properly anymore. I was messing around on an alt and found that even though I should have huge damage when like 5 shards hit a GLC, I didn't have much. So Vana took all the shards? I may be wrong, but that doesn't seem right.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@legenddestroyer

It has a hit limit much like the seraphynx where it is not allowed to the maximum possible times as it would make bombs like the shocking salt bomb the very best choice for killing the jelly king (9 hits plus shock status would tear the jelly apart).

But as I have stated before; it is made for multiple enemies, safe damage spread, and high mobility.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Skeptic

I was talking about dark retribution and dark briar barrage, not the blast bombs. And please, tell me how to use them.

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
@Fehzor

Right, bring up a 2 year old thread of you not knowing how to use them effectively right after they come out. Great plan.
Just because you have been talking about it longer on the forums does not mean that you are right. It only means that you have been talking about it longer. My positions on topic are rather well-researched as I'm rather thorough with my analysis, as shown with some of my various projects here, here, here, here, and here. Just because I don't write walls of text does not mean that my text does not hold valuable information.

Lets try this again, with some clarifications.

As I've said in other threads they are excellent defensive bombs [as in either knock back or otherwise prevent attacks from hitting you, interestingly they very easily block rocket puppy projectiles] that deal faster damage [slightly higher DPS] to slow enemies [such as wolvers, chromolisks, most gremlins, gorgos, and pretty much all constructs] than blast bombs [due to knocking them out of range for a second blast] or can add in a status to the damage [which DR and DBB do not].

I'm not saying they're OP against all monsters. I'm also not saying that multiple weapons cannot be used for different situations. I'm saying that they have useful places - of which can overlap current items. One of the most overlooked aspect (since most endgamers discuss things on the forums) is the shard bomb blast pattern barely changes upon upgrades.

The-Vindicar's picture
The-Vindicar
@Holy-Nightmare

First, mobs can only react so fast to you. Continuing example with zombies, once a zombie began preparing for the jump, it won't change the direction of the jump. And if you happen to place the bomb just before that, it's likely to jump straight into the safe zone where you were standing. Same with other mobile mobs. That hole is still a liability. Yes, it can be counteracted, but it's the need to counteract it is what makes shard bombs inconvenient. Since there are other bombs that have about the same (at least it feels so) DPS yet don't make you worry about the blast pattern at all, why use shards?

Leaving trail of destruction? Regular bombs can do that just fine, (well, those without huge knockback at least), plus shorter fuse means you can wear down faster enemies that way, as they are less likely to cross the blast area by the time bomb actually goes off. So you can use them both for area denial AND setting deathcourse, while only having to worry of not running into attack. Other bomb types seem to be more of support role, though I do agree they are extremely useful in certain situations.

Now that as @Jenovasforumchar noted, shards could be useful against those towering bosses, especially ones who like to rush towards you - they will get hit by the shards anyway, despite standing in the hole. An example would be giant Lichen Colony, I suppose. But since there said to be a hit cap on shard hits against one monster, a good chunk of potential damage is lost.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

And I'm saying that on the whole, other items will usually better fill those scenarios in a generally more convenient way that works better for your team.

They aren't terrible per say, they just don't really fill any gaps or perform a role that warrants their use over other items. Like sun shards vs DBB. DBB is great for grievers. Sun shards is also great for grievers, but DBB has one huge thing above it- it can shut down huge waves of grievers whereas sun shards has trouble doing so. When it comes down to it, I'm going to have to call DBB the superior weapon.

Examples of why DBB kills them so well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0szAQHonYIw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrqfHuWRjmQ

I was going to post an example of why shards doesn't, but I couldn't fine any examples of it working or not working.

I want to like the shard bombs, and I'll try using them more often to see what you mean about making them more protective of you, but so far they just haven't really proven themselves to be as good as other items.

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven
@Fehzor

Grievers are not handled by shard bombs very well [sun shards exception]. They are too fast. A skilled bomber can kill them with shards, but most bombers will have difficulty unless they have help in the party.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

So I can either get DBB or SSS. One kills grievers incredibly well, and the other doesn't. I'm not saying SSS is bad, I've had exceptional luck and quite a bit of fun with it in a lot of places. But then I've had the same exceptional luck with DBB in a lot of places that happens to include killing grievers. This is what I've been trying to say.