Spiral Knights - I know this is gonna be ignored, but whatever.

I know this is gonna be ignored, but whatever.

85 replies [Last post]

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 04:54

Arilys

Oh look, another Fire Crystal rant! Yaaay!

OOO, do you really plan on making so much new gear and weapons - and I mean after the Gunner Update - that we actually need so many of these? Because if not, then I need a lot more of these instead so I can actually level all of this (as well as the several 5 star items that I have stuck at random levels because lolnoradiantstolevelthem). I haven't even crafted all that stuff yet because, to be honest, why bother? I'd rather have level 10 four star gear gathering dust over level 1 five star gear gathering dust.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 04:56

Skepticraven

↓

Please change the title so I can ignore it before opening the thread.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:38

Fehzor

The OP is kind of weak, and offers nothing new.

A better argument would be something like.. "The game would be better off without rare fire crystals"

To back this argument up, you should have gone with something along the lines of...

0. They make the game into a grindfest
--A common negative attribute that SK should hope to avoid
--Crafting new items is something that drives the game forwards
--Even if the game was a grindfest before, it shouldn't be now.

1. They don't earn the game much money
--Veteran players likely to quit because of grinding, making them far less likely to purchase anything in the future.
--Promotions earn the game much more, as is evident by number of promotions and testing done

2. They force players to find and play specific content
--If I choose to do a "fun gate" that has levels that I like but ends with compounds, I get next to nothing from my run.
--I cannot go back and do missions unless they end at D26, or are firestorm citadel, because they won't give me anything.

3. They upset the balance of items by dropping the power/defense of them upon upgrading
--If I upgrade my shard bomb from 4* to 5*, its power decreases AND it loses valuable CTR, making it useless.
--Other items become far more viable. Upgrading my 4* magic cloak to chaos set changes it drastically, and there really aren't any real downsides.
--It was once said to us that this shouldn't be happening, that 5* should outclass 4* in all cases.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 07:22

Meep-The-Bank

Meep.

To be honest, I'd say that radiant drops don't need to be tweaked any more. I've seen many of my friends and guildies get their 5* gear to level 10 within a couple of weeks as they are hard-working for it after settling into the last update for the drop changes. Other methods of getting radiants also include buying from the supply depot, a way many players can use if they are able to buy and sell quite well.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:19

Arilys

@Skepticraven

Nah brah. That's why I put that first sentence there. You were the one that chose to post instead of hitting the Back button and actually, you know, ignore the thread.

@Fehzor

Yeah, I know I half-butted the OP. I've seen OOO ignoring so much genuine feedback that I don't even feel like making proper complaint posts. You do nail every point though.

@Mengh

Those friends of yours are pretty lucky then. I'll admit, I haven't been playing SK much lately. I'll do an FSC and/or one or two T3 Arcade runs every two or so days. But even when I had the mood/time to grind SK for days on end it'd take me at least one month to get one 5 star item from level 1 to 10. But then again, RNG hates me.

About buying Radiants from the Supply Depot... No. At least not while it's 700 energy for 50 of them and you need 453 Radiants to level something from 1 to 10 with the option that makes every level up guaranteed. That's 6300 energy on just the Radiants.

Inb4 "But if you grind FSC to get money for the Radiants, you won't need to use THAT much energy!" I'm aware of that. You'll still end up using a silly amount of energy to get the Radiants that you're missing.

On a random note: If the Radiant drops are fine as is, why does OOO have the need to flood our Arsenal with Shinings? Or are they perhaps planning to give us a recipe that allows us to craft Shining Fire Crystals into Radiants? (Talk about wishful thinking)

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:08

Pellipper

408 Request Time-out

Your browser didn't send a complete request in time.

When the gunner update releases, people won't come back. "Oh look shiny new content we can craft...Oh wait, I can't heat any of it. Eh, I guess it can wait"

Can't play SK casually anymore.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:29

Bopp

you can play almost all of the game casually

Can't play SK casually anymore.

I too think that Radiants are too rare, but let's not overstate the case.

You can play almost all of the game casually. You can easily achieve fully-heated 4-star weapons and armor. You can easily upgrade your armor to 5 stars, which does not really need to be heated. It's not outrageously difficult to find enough Radiants to heat one 5-star weapon. You can beat Vanaduke, OCH, and much of the other end-game content like this.

Yes, all of this has been said before now, many times.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:58

Mushy-Bucket

---

I'm not going to say that the Radiant issue is as bad as it was before, but it's still an issue when I have 25 Radiants and 4,600 Shinings.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:44

Arilys

@Bopp

"You can easily upgrade your armor to 5 stars, which does not really need to be heated."

I'm not sure about this but aren't 5 star weapons weaker than a level 10 4 star? At least until the 5 star reaches level 5 or something like that? Also, you do lose the Medium CTR of a level 10 4 star weapon. Which does matter a lot if you want to have fun with bombs. Yes, you can make up for it with a Trinket or Sprite Perk but if you didn't need months (if you don't play too frequently) to actually level the 5 star to 10 you could use said Trinket or Sprite Perk for something that might help you out better in levels.

@Mushy-Bucket

Yeah, I was happy when OOO increased the drop rate of Radiants. But now that I have almost 10,400 Shinings and "only" 200 Radiants, I think that something is still a bit off.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:56

Krakob

@Arilys

"You can easily upgrade your armor to 5 stars, which does not really need to be heated."

As for heating at least one weapon, you'll easily get enough radiants to get one to at least level 5 or so, thanks to the missions which actually give a respectable amount. That, combined with a few deep-into-S6 runs and you can by all means have a respectable 5* weapon.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:18

#10

Bopp

Arilys

As Krakob pointed out, I was making a careful distinction between armor (which doesn't gain much from heating) and weapons (which gain a lot from heating).

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:36

#11

Corrosive-Paladin

Have a problem having few Radiants?

The Answer?

Shadow Lairs. If you've got that many Shinings then you can easily earn the amount of CE needed to buy a Shadow Key and EASILY find 3 people willing to join you, fee or not.
From there, just spam the Dark Vana Lairs as you should be making at least just enough, if you are charging a fee, to keep yourself continuously diving into the level. If not well then you'll have to do some normal Vanaduke or Danger runs until you can make up what little amount youre off. Even go ahead and abuse the extra tokens youre earning, buy 5* equipment and sell it back to another npc for even more crowns.

I never understood why people complain about Crystals. Sure they are a bit annoying, but the game is Free to Play. There has to be things that slow down your progression a bit to keep the game going. Otherwise you've completed everything you want before they can add new, balanced content by the time you finish.

Put your pants back on and relax.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:16

#12

Mushy-Bucket

---

Thats the thing though, we shouldnt have to spam UFSC to heat our gear. I already have plenty of UVed 5* gear and find UFSC to be not that difficult, but what about people who are just getting 5*? You can't tell a newbie to go spam UFSC to heat their gear.

I admit that in the old days when I could heat a piece of 5* in a day or two it was a bit fast, but they made it too hard now (its a total grindfest). I have no interest in going after the gunner update gear or getting other UVed gear because of how annoying it is to heat the stuff. If the radiants dropped... say.. in between the rate they do now and the rate they did when the Forge was implemented, I think it would be much less of a problem. Either that or half the price of them in the SD so it would at least be reasonable to buy some from it.

What balanced content? OOO isn't very good with balance. 4 examples:
- Radiants formerly only dropping on D28+
- Acheron hyperbuff
- Normal gear doing less damage than a specialized weapon's normal dmg (like Combuster on Slimes > Levi on Slimes)
- Shock Pulsar line (soon to be worse from what I've read)

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:37

#13

Whimsicality

With enough willpower and time, one can easily obtain a good chunk of Radiants per day, meaning it's feasible to heat 5* weapons in no more than a week and a half. Lazy, entitled brats want it was back in the old days, where you could literally put forth no effort in FSC and get a 3* weapon to 5* level 10 in less than an hour.

And then they'll complain that there's nothing to do.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:58

#14

Bopp

not obviously an imbalance

Normal gear doing less damage than a specialized weapon's normal dmg (like Combuster on Slimes > Levi on Slimes)

I am not convinced that this is an imbalance. Specialized damage already has only a small advantage over normal damage, in that the vulnerability bonus (e.g. shadow on slimes) is much smaller than the resistance penalty (e.g. shadow on fiends). So it is not clear to me that the neutral damages should match, as you suggest. All of these numbers can be tinkered with.

To put it differently, normal weapons have the advantage of versatility. They have to be penalized somehow, to make up for this advantage. There is a lot of room for argument, in exactly how big the penalties should be.

It's definitely true that Combuster is more powerful than Levi. But that would still be true if they did equal regular-stroke damage to slimes and fiends.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 13:21

#15

Plancker

The answer is not shadow lairs... you make more radiants/hour in a normal FSC run than on UFSC, you will also actually earn money farming normal FSC, instead of spending all your gains from the UFSC on the shadow key cost. That + the fact that you can join FSC at later depths for even faster radiants while you have to join UFSC from the start.. so you definitely dont have to 'spam' ufsc, you have to spam FSC and people have been doing that since before the radiants got decreased droprates.

that said, I do agree it kind of sucks that heating up stuff is so hard, you can only work on 1 weapon at a time and cant even think about heating armor or shields if you want several weapons.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 13:43

#16

Mystrian

IMPORTANT! PLEASE RED

Play more. If that doesn't work play more again. And it that doesn't work play more again (3 days straight nonstop :)

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 15:13

#17

Fehzor

And now everyone has given you the speech on how easy it is to "grind it out". Kind of like how easy it is for immigrants to get a minimum wage job, earn enough money to go to college, learn a foreign language on the job so that they can catch up on basic math skills, graduate from a decent school of some sort, and get a decent career that allows them to live a happy life. A ridiculous comparison, but hardly an untrue one.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 15:29

#18

Sandwich-Potato

Except that F2P people are about the same in terms of grinding. And that grinding isn't a combination of luck and skill and cheese doodles. Cheese dooooooooooodles.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 15:32

#19

Fehzor

^That doesn't change the fact that, as I outlined above, there isn't a reason to make people do this and it hurts the game. I very specifically wrote my points with what you said in mind.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 15:35

#20

Mystrian

Where did "fun" go in "fun video games". Just play for fun. Why complain bout stuff.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 16:02

#21

Fehzor

^Why we as individuals play is irrelevant to the argument at hand. Even so, maybe we do still play for fun. Maybe while having fun, we step back and say "wow, this game would be a lot better if I didn't have to grind so hard for every little thing."

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 17:11

#22

Blazzberry

SCP-96

If no one complained at all then nothing would get done. OOO would just assume the game is perfect.

Now who here thinks this game is perfect?

.....

I see all your hands are down.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 18:33

#23

Sweet-Hope

The game is perfect? no, its pretty nice honestly but not perfect.

i find pretty BUT PRETTY SAD that arcade need like 40 mins to 1 hour or more (if we choose the right levels because we cant rotate levels in the elevator and have to wait to avoid unrewarding levels like compounds) to just get 12 ro 21 radiants (33 luckely) while in FSC need just 40 mins which give 21 to 55 radiants (luckely).

i stopped running arcade, because i just dont get enough danger rooms lately (idk if this was some sort of stealh patch anyone can confirm? so i just can believe i just got bad luck) and before i was able to get like 21 or 33. and started to do again FSC runs (THING I DONT LIKE I JUST GOT REALLY TIRED OF FSC) but i dont have another choice because its less time to get the radiants and i get a nice amount of them without much effort. Also to get a good run with nice amount of radiant i have to wait for a NICE GATE that dont have compound or trash level at depth 26 27 and 28.

doing shadow lairs to get radiants? Sure because i get a ton and tons of radiants, but how many people can do it? how i can trust that the peeps that joined to me will survive or help me with the run so i dont have to carry them? (and to not hear them " REV ME PLEZ I DONT HAVE SPARKSSSS") grinding shadow lairs is only a good way if you have people WHO ACTUALLY CAN RUN TROUGHT IT otherwise it you will lose some profit.

talking about if the game is perfect... who really think its? i dont say its bad. its really a good game but perfect no:

- anyone can explain why i can use remedy pills when i dont have any status problem? this something that always bugged me.

- do you know those "bonus" area that generate in clockworks? you know the one that requires luck that you should decide if you hit the block or the phantom block to see if you get the boxes at the end? they are pretty nice when you come from south to north part of the map because you can see the boxes so you can decide which one hit to get the reward... but going from north to south? you cant get the right answer and have to rely in your luck.

- talking about the previous thing i said... i really LOVE how HUD helps me on that one: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=265174980 . at this point i honestly dont mind anymore the new HUD, but i have to ask OOO. CAN YOU EXPLAIN ME HOW A BIG KNIGHT PORTRAIT HELP ME? it just a thing i really hate on the new hud the BIG MASSIVE KNIGHT PORTRAIT. it just annoying and dont help me at all. that space could be useful for another thing. lets say a "small weapon wheel?" where i can see my cursed weapons so i dont have to cycle between them to see which one i can use?.

- i love sometimes how the game generate some randoms areas but sometimes i dont understand the point to generate things like this: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=266363939 i really want to understand it.

and there probably many many stuff that can be changed. so the game is perfect nope. i enjoy it playing? well i do but sometimes i wonder why they do stuff like that. sorry if this was kinda off topic.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 18:44

#24

Welux

@Sweet-Hope

Um, Blazz was implying the game was not perfect.

As far as complaining goes, complaining is fine, but when you see complaints you've seen tens of hundreds of times, you get kind of sick of it, especially if its a complaint that's about a topic that's been beaten to death many times before.

Anyways, topic.
Radiants can be obtained through one thing, work.
if you don't wanna work, im surprised you made it as far as you have in life.
Sure its a grind, but the game is F2P which means that its going to be a grind for what you want. You can't even buy whatever you want without needing some work involved.

TL;DR Stop running FSC 4 times a day and you wont get sick of the game after a week and quit for a month.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:16

#25

Fehzor

@Welux

Could you perhaps explain why it must be a grind? As in, how does that benefit the game? I've listed several reasons why it shouldn't be a thing above. There are other F2P games that aren't massive grindfests at any point, like Team Fortress 2. I think that adopting a model based around lessened grinding would be very healthy for the game.

Complaining is kind of legitimate here. On one hand, yes we've seen it before. On the other hand, OOO hasn't fully fixed the issue yet, and we should be complaining.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:18

#26

Whimsicality

Grinding? What's that?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:23

#27

Midnight-Dj

It is time to sing that song again

GRINDING HERE
I REALIZE
YOU WERE JUST LIKE ME
TRYING TO MAKE ENERGY

BUT WHO IS TO JUDGE
CONTENTS FROM SKINS
BUT WHEN OUR SPARKS ARE GONE
I THINK WE BOTH AGREE

THAT ENDGAME BREEDS GRINDING
BUT IN THE END
ALL MMOs HAVE TO BE THIS WAY

HE PLAYS HIS ARCADE
I FOLLOWED MY RAGE
MAYBE WE WERE BOTH THE SAME
THE UPDATE HAS DELAYED
NO NEW GUNS TO MAKE
BUT NO ONE IS TO BLAME

AS I AM TEARING ACROSS FIRE STORM CITADEL
I HOPE NEW KNIGHTS COULD BE BORN BENEATH THIS GUNNER UPDATE
BENEATH THIS GUNNER UPDATE

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:35

#28

Fehzor

@Whimsicality

Grinding is that thing that applies to all of the players that don't merchant things 24/7, or 'play the market' or any of that. I'd love to hear your secret to ripping people off on the auction house though. a sentenza recipe going for 340K crowns is absurd.

@Midnight-DJ

Why? Why does the game have to be a grindfest? I still haven't been told this. It can have some grinding in it, I'm not opposed to that. A little bit of grinding is fun, even. But the current amount is anything but fun, and it can't be doing good by the game.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:47

#29

Welux

@Fehzor

i was simply looking at other F2P RPG's that require decent grind, heck, even some pay RPG's require some grindim pretty sure that warframe and some other MMO's are a massive grind as well. (dont quote me on that, i've just had friends tell me so, my pc is too poop to run those games. le cry)

As far as benefiting the game goes, it doesn't, i know it doesn't, apologies if i came off defending that factor, but its just how i feel. I really don't think the game is going to change its F2P model, so, my way of doing it, is to go with it. Not saying the reasons you stated weren't valid and could work well, i just dunno if OOO would consider anything of that nature.

But i was just giving my input on rather than sitting around and wondering why Radiants are so rare, just go out, put a few hours in, and hopefully you'll get 50. If you're lucky.

Apologies if i didn't answer your question, it's late and im irritated after getting roflstomped in BN 3 round in a row.

And @Whimsicality Please teach me your incredible marketing skills.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 20:18

#30

Midnight-Dj

@Fehzor

*puts the electirc guitar away*

Well, think of it this way. Tell me one major MMO that doesn't have grinding involved at the endgame, you can't, the reason is simple, the developers simply don't have the time and the money to make new contents fast enough for the players, so a wall must be set up somewhere, a wall to either slow down the players or stop them completely to buy the developers time needed to make new contents.

If this my is true, then no MMO in this world can not have grinds. Grinds can be any of the following:
-ultra slow character/skill/gear progression
-high difficulties and high rewards (like dark souls)
-perma-death, this one hurts
-classes, so after maxing out one class, you have to max out the other
-purely skill based, hours upon hours of parctice

Until someone come up with a solution to create a vast amount of game content in short period (scientific singularity?), or someone gives a million dollar check to OOO. I think we will all have to just do with what we got.

And now have a look at this submarine, it took me 2 years to grind to that thing, spending countless hours in honing my skills, leveling up my crews and get enough money to purchase this ship. It is something...

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 20:19

#31

Paintool

I'm still going back with my

I'm still going back with my idea that we should have alternatives to ELE Pass system.

OOO just needs to make a forge pass to bypass forge crystals, whatever, and they can make bank money just like old times.~

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 20:25

#32

Fehzor

So basically you're saying that it doesn't benefit the game, and that you actually agree with the OP? But that since the game isn't going to change, you'd rather just give in and grind? And that it must be how the game should be, because other games are like that? ...right.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 20:36

#33

Welux

Basically, Midnights got it.
I don't agree with it, but it has to be there. if not, people would just be sitting in haven all day with every weapon and armor with nothing to do.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 20:38

#34

Whimsicality

I have nothing more to contribute to this conversation but

My my, what a nice deal we have here. And no bids, either? I'll just place a bid to keep my eye on oh no

what have i done

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 21:06

#35

Paintool

Bringing this back because I

Bringing this back because I think it's relevant.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/100774

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 21:16

#36

Mushy-Bucket

---

What I think Whim did is put those auctions up and bought them with an alt. Bingo.
Also, I thought you weren't allowed to post pictures of graphically modded SK?

On topic:
I'm not saying grinding is bad. I'm not saying I don't want to work. I had to work to get where I am now in the game. I just think there should be a distinction between too much work/grinding and the right amount. We have too much right now (in some cases).

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 21:49

#37

Fehzor

@Midnight

I've already offered my two cents on the "how" portion of this, being a level editor. But that's aside from the point.

I would say two things for this. That costumes and other endgame things of that sort like UVs already capitalize on this enough, and that this isn't necessarily how things are.

First, the abundance of UVs and costume items have proven in the past enough to mop up massive spills of money into the game, and currently keep the price of energy as a whole down. This, along with guild halls and other sinks should prove more than enough to soak up my wealth. In the past, I've always wanted to invest in them, and I find myself liking them more and more. Them, along with reskins make the game fun for me while I wait for content.

Second, there are many players at the end game that just don't grind for fire crystals. Do they have everything? Are they fully content? No. They have just enough to get by, because grinding is painful. Do they stick around? Of course! I play the game Megaman Battle Network 3. I have played this game since I was 13, and there are NEVER any content updates, and all there is left for me is grinding and playing with the combinations of gear I already have. I have around 95% of everything, but I still sit down and play around with those combinations. Likewise, combinations of gear are what keep me in the game here. If anything, we should aim for players to have access to everything they need!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 21:55

#38

Terrifying-Pancake

@Midnight-Dj Revengeance eh?

@Midnight-Dj
Revengeance eh? Good tqste.

Also, maybe there could be a radiant doubler item, similar to a krogmo coin booster. Just doubles radiant pickups. Or triple, or quadruple, or more.

And other ideas?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 22:31

#39

Corinthmaxwell

@Arilys:

*shudders violently after reading your list* And to think, I'm sitting here worrying that the 27 items I was planning to heat -- nine of which will be from the gunner update -- will consume all of my free time (and crowns & Crystal Energy) in this game........it's seriously depressing for me to think that there are others in even worse shape than I am. You're right about one thing (among several), though.......it'd be a better use of my time & crowns to simply craft a bunch of 4-star gear & then challenge myself to not get killed with it in Tier-3 missions & gate runs than to craft 5-star gear that serves absolutely zero purpose because the items aren't in their "Complete" Level 10 state.

*reads further* I agree with the idea of not buying Radiant Fire Crystals from the Supply Depot at their current prices. As I've mentioned in previous threads, the price should either be 70 CE for 50 Radiants, or they should increase the number you get in a single package to 500. As it stands now, I would either have to spend $150, or farm & grind for 2+/3+ years straight until I was able to afford all of the Crystal Energy I'd need in order to buy enough Radiant Fire Crystals to heat 67% of the items I'm currently attempting to gain Radiants for.....and those are just the ones I actually want. I mean, seriously......I know that this game won't survive without a steady influx of money, but OOO is going about asking for that money in the worst way possible. -_-

@Fehzor: I agree with much of what you wrote in your last post, as I am currently unable to buy any costume items, accessories, trinket/weapon slot upgrades, or even hoard enough crowns to attempt to put a few UVs on my gear, because I have to commit every single crown I obtain toward being able to purchase CE and then purchase Radiant Fire Crystals with it. If -- as I've also mentioned in previous topics -- fire crystals of each type were only able to be obtained in each individual stratum, the whole "farming Stratum 6 for Radiants" wouldn't even be an issue for me and/or others anymore. :/

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 02:10

#40

The-Vindicar

@Corinthmaxwell I feel your

@Corinthmaxwell
I feel your pain, dude. In fact, I have given up on heating my 5* gear fully. I only heat it to level 5 and leave it there. It still takes several good T3 runs, but at least it's fun thing to do!

I mean, look at all those l33t pr0s suggesting you grinding (U)FSC for hours. FSC is just not really fun. It's utterly linear, black-and-red boring, exhausting slagslaughterfest mixed with trap tapdancing. Playing it once per day is like going to work... which is not what I personally seek in any game. At least in regular T3 you have diversity.

What would help the game IMO is dynamic level payouts (per monster family and per stratum). I mean, if player has been raiding ashtail dens for a while, payout there should diminish, while payout on other families/environments should increase. That would give players a reason to actually explore the game instead of grinding the same level and then complaining abour grinding the same level.

Thu, 06/05/2014 - 07:04

#41

Arilys

Between being on the PC and AFK, this took me a while to type up. I swear that if someone replies and shows that they ignored this post, I will wish you step on a Lego block every day until the rest of your life! >:T

Okay, I'm gonna serious up for a while.

@Bopp

Oops, I read "gear" instead of "armour". Sorry, my bad! I feel like a dumb now :B

@Krakob

Yes, the missions give a decent amount of Radiants as mission rewards. The "problem" with that is that those mission rewards are only given once. After that you need to go to Stratum 6 Arcade levels or, like most people do, FSC.

@Corruptpaladin

Mushy-Bucket and Plancker pretty much took the keyboard from under my fingertips.

@Whimsicality

Your whole post is stupid.
Not everyone has hours upon hours to burn into a game that's so heavy on grinding. Yes, it was silly that we could fully level a piece of gear from 2* to 5* in a day or two, and I'm fine with the Forge system existing in order to make that progress slower. But when OOO first introduced the Forge we could easily find Radiants. Hell, I've had several Radiant drops from D22 (which is the depth right before Basil) before the Nerf of Doom. I can understand that OOO nerfed their rates to make progress even slower (and messed up big time by making them D28-only... and you had to be lucky to actually get any Radiants even there), and I was actually happy when they made them more common. But I don't know if I'm still that happy because it's still quite surprising when I get Radiant drops in D26. Hell, I'm still surprised when I get more than 15 Radiants in a T3 Arcade or Vana run.

On a more random note

"Lazy, entitled brats want it was back in the old days,"

I don't want it back in the old days. I just want OOO to make the game less of a grind. Especially since one of the game's early, early trailers claimed that it had "No Grinding". (At around 1:03, and it only appears for a brief moment. But it's there.)

Also, yes, please feel free to call me lazy. I bet all of this just fell into my lap while I was just sitting in Haven. ^^

@Mystrian

Same thing I said in reply to Whimsicality: not everyone has that much time to burn into a game so heavy on grinding, especially if they only play when they get home after a day in school/work.

About your next post

"Where did "fun" go in "fun video games". Just play for fun. Why complain bout stuff."

That's part of the problem. I've been playing SK long enough that I know pretty much every level layout as well as how to deal with each and every enemy in the levels. The only "fun" I get from the game anymore is (or was, before the Radiant Drought) to craft the stuff that I'm missing and levelling it up to level 10.
Why was it fun? Because I actually got to use those neglected pieces of gear and weapons long enough to figure out where I could have most fun with them. If it weren't for that I wouldn't have found out just how handy the Valiance can be (and I carry that thing EVERYWHERE now).
Or how fun the Magnus lines, Volcanic Pepperbox, Suda/Triglav (and others) actually are to use (even if they're laughably weak when compared to a certain family of swords and a certain gun). Hell, even the "new" Shard bombs are fun to use (if you're paired with a decent player, don't mind the random knockbacks, invicitinks and worse-than-Nitronome blindness the Shards cause when spammed like... well, bombs).

I do have to admit that I still wish OOO had kept the Old Shards in the game too instead of completely removing them. Telling someone that I could OHKO a Trojan with full HP with a bomb sometimes got real funny reactions :p

Moving on to the "Why complain bout stuff" part. Why shouldn't I (or anyone else, really) complain? I like the game. There's a reason I have almost 3k hours spent in it, especially when the only games I've spent similarly ridiculous amounts of time playing were Pokémon (during all Generations) and, in a far third place, Kingdom Hearts.
I do want SK to get better, that's why I complain. Why did OOO improve the Radiant drop rates? Because so many players were complaining that they only dropped in D28.
Like Blazzberry said, if no one complained then nothing would get done and the game wouldn't improve at all. That's why I complain. I like the game, I want it to get better so it actually becomes fun again and so people stop being discouraged to play it because of all the grinding involved.

@Welux

For the bit of your post about complaining, I've already said all I wanted in my reply to Mystrian. About needing to work to get Radiants, check my reply to Whimsicality. My Arsenal didn't fill up like that by itself. Don't you dare call me lazy just because I'm complaining about Radiants :P

Pulling the "It's a Free to Play game!" card shouldn't be a thing. Yes, SK is F2P but that doesn't excuse the amount of grinding that it has. It needs some grinding to keep people from getting their 5 star gear in a couple of days like it happened in the pre-Forge days. But the fact that the game's F2P also means that OOO should make the game in a way that keeps people playing. Many players end up giving up on this game because of the excessive grinding it has. And what happens then? Less players that would maybe be willing to give OOO their money once they get into it enough.

See where I'm getting at with this? I'm not complaining because I'm too "lazy" to play the game, I'm complaining because the grinding is pushing away possible income for OOO. Less income for OOO means less or much slower content for the players. And less content for the players means that older (and possibly paying) players ALSO leave the game. It benefits no one.

"TL;DR Stop running FSC 4 times a day and you wont get sick of the game after a week and quit for a month."

I run FSC once a day, when I even bother doing FSC. Otherwise you'll find me in a Clockworks run. I still get sick of the game and "quit" it for a couple of weeks every now and then.

@Midnight-Dj

You make good points. The only thing irking me about your post is this

"Until someone come up with a solution to create a vast amount of game content in short period (scientific singularity?), or someone gives a million dollar check to OOO. I think we will all have to just do with what we got."

With all the promos that OOO has chugged out these last months (not to mention the UVs and Guild Hall stuff that's been around for a while too, like Fehzor stated), I find it hard to believe that they're so bad when it comes to money. I know they're a small team, but I've seen games (not f2p, but indies) with similarly small teams and a lot more content than SK. A recent one that comes to my mind is Starbound. It's younger than SK but it already has so much stuff that isn't player made mods. Fun fact: the devs of that game were scattered all over the world and only got together in an office recently. That didn't keep them from making a huge game that's still in its Beta stage.

Boy, that was long and srz. Here, have some Castlevania fart jokes.

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 07:43

#42

Pellipper

I find it funny that Paintool's idea is a rather good, where you pay an amount and play the game, as much as you like, with no major obstacles preventing you from progressing.

Oh wait, isn't that exactly why people used to buy CE/lift passes when mist existed?

It's going to go full circle, and I'm almost certain the game was better before missions existed.

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 08:28

#43

Vishno

mist energy wasn't so bad

hindsight is 20/20

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 10:47

#44

Whimsicality

@ "Mist energy wasn't so bad."

Elevator costs, however, were.

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 13:15

#45

Captainshockwave

Flappy Pancakes

The fire crystals is clearly a way for OOO to receive money. With the prices of elevators gone, they have set up all sorts of ways to receive the same amounts of funds they did with elevators. So Fire crystals in summary are another market play by OOO

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 14:22

#46

Semajc

Are a problem...

I find the radiant fire crystal part annoying, but NOT AS ANNOYING AS THE F*CKING ORBS OF ALCHEMY! It takes ages to get even a two star item, forget five star. I was personally fine with the energy stuff

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 14:38

#47

Sandwich-Potato

Erm, you do know you can just buy Orbs from the Supply Depot for the same amount as Energy as when they costed Energy for crafting, right?

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 15:12

#48

Skepticraven

↓

Oh, this thread is still alive?
Let me rehash everything that I've said so far as well.

I'll keep it simple and just link.
F2Pers can complain all they want, but here's the news flash: You farm at approximately the same rate.
P2Pers don't.
Maybe we should suggest a solution?

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 16:00

#49

Fehzor

@Skeptic

My argument why, despite being "roughly the same", fire crystals should be changed in some way: here

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 17:39

#50

Skepticraven

↓

0. It is not a grindfest to play the game. It is a grindfest to get the absolute best gear to make the game easier. I am more than capable (and have with public groups) beat shadow lairs wearing a full set of unheated 5* items or lvl 10 4*.

1. Citation required. This is your opinion stated as a fact without proof. I find it likely as well, but that does not make it true.

2. Wrong. In fact I have been working against this notion with all of my treasure box resources analysis. Players force players to find and play specific content.

3. Oh look, I've already addressed that here. No one complains about upgrading to from 3* to 4* (even if they don't have shining FC) because lvl 1 4* is stronger than lvl 10 3* in stratum 5 (and 6).

Search

I know this is gonna be ignored, but whatever.