I am amused how all but 1 of your links are to suggestions, that often don't even cite any data to support their cause.

"...but by secretly weighting it OOO commits a passive lie..."
Right, because when you assume something and it turns out wrong... someone had to be lying about it, despite never making an official statement on the topic.

If you are going to become an engineer, I suggest raising your standards for fact-finding and sound analysis before you put out claims filled with opinion.

If you don't like the "Pay in time or money" dilemma, I would suggest avoiding all games with the tag "MMO".

Even if Orangeo's links are to suggestions, many of them end up agreeing with data collection (for example, by Glacies on shields). So that part of the post seems fine to me.

Yes, it is quite possible that Three Rings manipulates drop rates. We have strong anecdotal evidence in the case of Lockboxes on the Prize Wheel. But like Skepticraven I would like to see evidence of other injustices, before Three Rings is accused of them. Actually I've tried to collect such evidence, by measuring drop rates on multiple knights. My study was inconclusive. I'd need an enormous amount of detailed data, and life is short.

The rest of the post is a bit melodramatic --- especially the "used rubber" part. I do agree that you should not spend money on any gambling where you don't know the odds. But the rest of Spiral Knights is simple entertainment. So spend money if you value the entertainment, or don't if you don't. Happy travels.

You missed the point by a mile orange
And you still need to answer if you're leaving the forums, or did you not get that either?

Welp, goodbye. It was nice while it lasted, Orangeo.

Ugh, I don't know which one is worse... an iteration of every complain thread ever or the stupidity of the OOO cheerleaders...

*takes out an eletric guitar*

BYE ORANGEO

Looking down into the clockwork,
Gears turning by,
Every monsters advancing together,
So willingly to sacrifice crowns,
Players accepted their fate of grinding,
Give up freewill, conform,
Individual pieces of complaints hurled together,
Becomes a full storm.

Looking down into the Great colony,
Grand Arsenal rise,
Even the developers with the greatest intentions,
Started to believe in their own lies,
They can always talk about the future,
But at the end, contents must be made,
The only way out of the clockworks,
Is to strike out and pave your own way!

We all play,
Our own knights,
Will you fuel the desire to grind?
Always struggling with the truth,
With all the games you might have played.
No matter how awesome this game is,
You will eventually leave,
Even when the Vana has fallen,
The grinding still raged with in!!!

I'd comment on the OP but I don't want to get banned for................................. reasons. So I just won't.

@Skepticraven

"I never give nice comments to "I'm quitting" forum threads."

Why should that effect your opinion? I know you're more professional than that, don't let people get to you.

"If you don't like the "Pay in time or money" dilemma, I would suggest avoiding all games with the tag "MMO".

I hate this for two reasons.. first, because it's just incorrect logically-- why can't a game be massively multiplayer and avoid the pay in time or money dilemma? There are MANY successful models out there that don't rely on it- like Valve's ridiculous hat and crate scheme.

But second, because you're strangely correct with it. The whole pay to win in half an hour or play for 12 hours and then win trope is all too real and I'm just sour about it, but enjoy the idea of what the genre could be too much to actively avoid it.

*sighs*

Truth is, he's right. In some areas. The melodramatic bits aren't necessary because the data is already very dramatic in its own right. I drew many of the same conclusions looking at the data before reading this, for example.

Exactly what is Three Rings/SEGA playing at? Why are they trying to destroy a great game? All of the crystals required to 'max out' is insane. The orbs aren't too bad, but the problem is how much of the game is 'spoon-fed' to players until they hit T3. Why? Why can't things get a little slower going gradually? The pacing of this game could be better, I suppose.

Also, I'm not so much against 'grinding' as I used to be, as long as the grind doesn't feel like a grind. Right now, the end-game of SK feels like a grind.

You seem fed up with the game, but instead of being angry at the game perhaps find out what parts of it makes it "not fun" to you. We're always looking for more players to throw suggestions around in the suggestions subforum.

Now let's see, the problems listed include:

• 5* is weaker for the most part than 4*
• Shield upgrading is not worth it
• Missions rush you through them and do not slow you down until you are thrown at the grind/paywall. Faster you go the harder it hurts

For the first bit, Skepticraven has a great suggestion to make 4* weapons not scale in stratum 6 as they currently do. Every other star weapon stops at the end of their stratum, so 4* should follow that rule too.

Shield upgrades could have additional things added onto them. Health is a bigger no, but perhaps add a bonus for all shields at level 5 and 10? Something like "Shield Regeneration Increase: Low" and then medium on level 10? Maximum would be what seraphic aura gives. Perhaps even do something like the tortoshields so that different shields have unique shield bashes! Something to think about. I believe Holy-Nightmare has a thread about this sort of thing buried somewhere in the suggestions subforum.

Lastly, the idea of having minerals activate mission gates has been around for a while now. The idea is that the arcade is free and missions cost minerals. This makes players play the arcade and slow down their progress on missions so they won't be hurt as hard when they hit the next hall of heroes.

With those three changes, you fix some of the biggest issues with progress that the game has. The only last thing that would be needed would to have a reliable and free (looking at you, shadow lairs) method of obtaining radiant fire crystals. I've suggested having a merchant at the core who you could buy some from, or perhaps have prize boxes at the core that drop them as well. Getting at least 15 radiants per tier 3 arcade run would be great, as I've gotten none before due to RNG being a fickle mistress.

hey Orengeo, I understand what you mean. And I'm going to say is that its sad to see you go(See, I'm not those jerks.) but I hope you have a good time playing a diffrent game. I honestly have gotten very bored In the game, but I stick around the forums because of (half of) the community.

I have seen a statement from a dev that pretty much goes like this: "this game is pretty complicated so there are bugs that I literally can't fix, so I might as well start a new game". fun fact: he did.

I think OOO knows of the flaws that this game monetization has, but they can't do much about it because this is the best they can think up right now. say, do you know a monetization method that is better than the current one? please don't say mist, this system already feels better than mist, up to a certain point.
the forge system is miles better on newbies and much, much worse for "veterans". I'd like to make a shoutout to skeptic here: can you use your data to tell me how grinding is distributed on the tiers? I can bet that you would need to grind more in T3, and by absurd proportions compared to T2. if it's not that way, well then it just feels like it.
another problem is that the forge has the same cost of mist. yes, it's a problem. before you had to grind FSC because it was one of the two ways of getting profit. now you have to grind FSC to not be slower than the previous system. the game wasn't opened up to the ones that didn't find the game open to begin with, it just made the grind worse for the ones who don't use FSC as for main grinding method. the game always punished you for not grinding FSC, because profit before and because speed now, and this is a major design flaw to me. yes, it's the final boss, but even the hardest boss can be mastered through trial and error, and so we have.

SK doesn't need a better monetization. SK needs a major design overhaul. now, I'm no expert in game designing arcana, but I sure hope that OOO will start searching for one, fast.

also bye orangeo. wait, didn't you just come back?

EDIT: and no, no game is ever designed to be quitted, but no game is perfect or has infinite content to make you interested for an unlimited amount of time. just sayin'.

Try the Prestige Missions and do PvP. Give yourself new goals. Participate even more in the forums. When you get bored of grinding, do my suggestions.

and you think SK is bad with waiting? SK was more about waiting when mist was introduced. now to be at least on par with the speed you had before, you have to play on the standards the old mist enforced, with the difference that you can play more or less.
SK is very, very far from the freemium model that is in the video. you must do things to craft your equipment, and there is no wait time introduced with a timer for equipment, or exporing new areas, or just play in general. SK wasn't designed with the freemium model, and no matter how much you look into it, you can't turn a game on its head without some major overhauling of the system. as I said, the game is as grindy as before. if they wanted to desperately milk your money, you'd see some timers appearing here and there.

skeptic has data that says that the grinding didn't become worse. the actual monetization around it, however, it has. with mist we had a way to not use the system, it was called elevator pass. with the forge, we still don't have something that can appeal to you, medium gamer that before the mist removal got the elevator pass because it was great to have it. the forge isn't a downgrade for anyone that didn't spend money on the game, and it was a massive increase in grind for the ones that pay. it's a shift from monetization focused on anyone and monetization focused on a little group of people that are usually called "whales". this is a flaw in the reasonment made by OOO, because right now there are games that make spending money feel like a reward more than "I have to spend money other wise I'll be grinding for months!" it's not the fact that the forge is a downgrade, it's the fact that right now there is no incentive to spend money to actually use it.
some have theorized a "forge pass" to make the forge skippable and make heating like it was. I don't think that is a possibility right now, but making the first level of the forge free would be great, and could be sold at low.
there, had an idea. please OOO use it.

i r8 8/8