True, any game can get repetitive. It's not something exclusive of the Juggernaut you play, Arkate.
the only thing I got tired of was better players blowing my head up.
Yup, headshots can be mean sometimes D:
Good thing we don't have headshots in SK.
Hunter vs the World - Survival PvP game, complete with Classes, Skills, Maps and Pursuing Gameplay!!
But don't tell the AP or Callahan, they might cry.
Scenario:
"BOOM! HEADSHOT! BOOM! HEADSHOT!! Wait, there aren't headshots in SK?"
/drops out of owners hand.
/fires weakly until it gets into a dark corner.
"...I don't want to live on Cradle anymore Q.Q"
Used to play that game until NX became extensively OP'd to the point that I wanted to lash out on people who decide to go Spec...
As a matter of fact, this game mode kinda reminded me of Spy Hunt...
Well without the whole intel grabbing... but yea.
I'm ranting...
Continued support given, however.
Hey, add me. Maybe I'll 1v1 you with my nooby guns one day. I don't have any perms that weren't rank-up freebies, and I've neglected my FPS ability as well. I don't have any NX guns/equipment. Name is Psycho182
See the latest few patches appear to have come with a broken client or something and caused my game to constantly glitch out.
I had to deinstall it.
Recently tried another reclient, same problems.
And Nexon never listens to their tickets, so I can't return to that game.
Though I really wasn't intending on a return anyways, this game and TF2 way better serve the idea of "Free to Pay."
Combat Arms: "Free to Play, Pay to Win." As a fellow forumer on that game once said.
Pity that. And I was looking forward to a possibly hardcore fight which didn't involve minigun turrets, Medkits, caltrops, HE grenades, Subsonics, Spec guns/skins and all that.
Tbh, I ditched that game for SK. I haven't really played it in earnest for over 6 months.
@Arkate
Dude, if you don't have any constructive criticism to present, please, don't post in my thread again.
So, hey, Imperialstriker, it's your first time commenting here. Don't you have any suggestions, questions, criticism or compliments?
lol I know CA is cool but you guys are kinda getting offtopic here '-'
Hunter/Juggernaut = what we've discussed.
Ranger/Assassin = Has invisibility similar to recon when shield goes up (ditching shield ability). Prey can sense the Ranger's presence similar to marking but they never get the curse portion. Halve the health buff. ASI and Damage increase with Guns and Swords.
Bomber(?) = No invisibility, movement speed has an increase, CTR and Damage is increased with bombs. Shield works as normal, however the Health buff is 3/4 Hunter health buff.
Just figured I'd help the juices get going.
Thanks Skold, you rock.
I'll try to list all Bonuses of each class.
Hunter Classes:
Juggernaut
Damage Bonus - Medium; (Any weapon)
Movement Speed Increase - High;
Attack Speed Increase - Medium;
Health Bonus - (10, 20, 40. Respectively for each Tier);
Guardian Shield.
Assassin
Damage Bonus - High; (Guns and swords)
Movement Speed Increase - Medium;
Attack Speed Increase - Very High;
Health Bonus - Half the Juggernaut's (5, 10, 20);
Invisible when shielding, but not completely (Similar to Chromalisks).
Bombardier
Damage Bonus - Very High (Only for bombs);
Movement Speed Increase - High;
Charge Time Reduction - Very High;
Health Bonus - 3/4 The Juggernaut's(8, 15, 30);
Normal Shield.
I'll add to the OP later (giving you credits).
Would you change anything? I think I they're all somewhat equivalent.
I think the hide-and-seek aspect could distinguish this enough from regular juggernaut modes to give it solid replay value. It would definitely need some tweaking, but with polish I can see myself playing the heck out of this. And idea, though. Perhaps don't restrict the Hunter's vision. Instead, restrict everyone else's vision and give the Hunter a radar which shows him the relative position of every other player in the game. Remove team chat and make all messages sent by players viewable to everyone, including the Hunter. Combine this with maps of relatively large size and a time limit of approximately seven to ten minutes.
Giving the Hunter the intelligence advantage will foster a sense of urgency in the other players; they will not only have to gang up on the Hunter to survive, but they'll have to find each other first. They are alone, scattered across a large map with only a meagre understanding of their surroundings, and the Hunter is closing in. He always knows where they are. He hears them when they try to coordinate. Eventually, he will come for them. It's just a matter of when.
In this idea, each round would be considered a match individually; if the survivors won, they would be rewarded with pretty much just their entrance fees and two Krogmo coins. If the Hunter managed to kill everyone though, his or her rewards would be much greater. Hunter status would be assigned randomly; however, if the players in a match agreed to a rematch, the previous Hunter would be unable to have that status again until everyone else had a turn.
As I said, tweaking is obviously necessary. But there's gold here; I can practically taste it.
Check page 1.
As of current, I'm satisfied with this idea. Just keeping the positive support flowing.
I actually really like Yechezkel's idea, except for the radar. Making the Hunter the one with superior vision would make it seem a ton more like a Hunter-Prey matchup.
Should hunter vision be full, the urgency would be stronger... Perhaps just darken the vision of the prey outside that radius... Not completely opaque, dark enough to blur up the form of other knights (aka brood suspicion about that form outside your 'vision' as to if it's the predator or fellow prey). NO RADAR ON HUNTER! There's a difference between being a predator and simply being Mr. Kills-a-lot, I think the line would be crossed should the predator have a radar.
With a large enough map I do think this would be extremely applicable... with enough playtesting and such, I'm sure this game would come out as a grand new addition to the Krogmo games. Would there be a leaderboard function for this game though? Or would we just be playing it for fun? I can see the points-system becoming extremely lopsided were someone to constantly exit, wait 10 mins, get back on and actually manage to get the predator position again and again using this method (granted it's a very rough gamble, but a capable one when you think about it). So should a timer function be developed for those who are chosen to be predator? Am I being a little too paranoid on this?
I have more thoughts on this game but I only have vague thoughts thus far... nothing 'fleshed out'. So I'll likely be posting here again when I get it 'fleshed out'
@Yechezkel
I'm glad to see you had all that effort, I liked some of your ideas, but I think there might be some flaws on your suggestion.
If I'm wrong at anything, please correct me.
-Perhaps don't restrict the Hunter's vision. Instead, restrict everyone else's
Hunters will be given a lot of bonuses already, if they didn't have any form of cons, everybody would start threads like "Hunter's advantages are too damn high" or stuff like that. Could get even worse if Preys' vision had those cons instead.
-give the Hunter a radar
No radar, for obvious reasons, already said.
-maps of relatively large size and a time limit of approximately seven to ten minutes
I said in another post here, I prefer quick rounds since killed players wouldn't have to wait for too long in spectator mode until the game ends/another round starts.
Just imagine you being the first person killed and having to wait up to 10 minutes for the match to end and receive your tokens.
-each round would be considered a match individually
I think that for the point system to correspond to the player's skill at the end of a match, every player should be the Hunter at least once per match.
I mean, you might be a kickass Hunter, but people wouldn't know that if you're not chosen and are killed right at the start of the match.
But disregarding that, I liked your ideas on:
Making all messages viewable to everyone.
Preys having to find each other first, even though it would be extremely complicated to do so before most players are killed.
Don't get me wrong, I just don't think things would work out this way. If you have any more ideas, please don't hesitate on telling me.
bump...
any comments? come on, I welcome any ideas you may have '-'
I still like the idea of prey having reduced vision... I just think it would add an element of fear into the game, and a little suspense. Maybe to counter the extra buff that would give the hunter, you could reduce the hunter speed just a tiny bit, and give the prey an adrenaline boost, which would let them sprint faster than the hunter for 5-10 seconds, then have a minute cooldown on it. Also, after the adrenaline wore off, maybe reduce walking speed slightly below normal for a few seconds.
Well, I would have to change serious stuff in the OP, and frankly, I think it would work out just as well as how it is right now.
Btw, thanks for supporting for all this time Aemicus.
... So, any oppinions on the hunter classes? Do you think they're good or is it just me?
Will the Assassin classes shield break in one hit?
And also, speaking as someone who has played some T1 ld, trying to go through even 4 bars of health is simply awful. Giving the juggernaut 10 EXTRA bars of health, as well as increased damage, means that unless you are extremely good at dodging, and the juggernaut sucks, it will be almost impossible to kill the juggy without a surround of a few people.
Will the Assassin classes shield break in one hit?
Yes, pretty much the same as a Recon.
it will be almost impossible to kill the juggy
Well, considering that:
-Most matches would be 10 vs 1
-A T1 Hunter would have 15~20 HP
Then each Prey would have to take out at least 2 health bars in order to kill him.
And also considering that Hunters have no defense buff, 2 health bars shouldn't be that hard to take out before you die (you just need to be quick), not counting on the 2 points you might get if you manage to take out 3 bars, which should be incentivating enough.
But hey, if it turns out to be a big problem, we can work around that.
Maybe instead of giving Hunters a health bonus, we should give them a fixed amount of health, to prevent Heart-Trinket abuses while Hunter (While being Preys though, they should be usable, to help them survive a little longer and chop off more bars off of Hunters).
On the other hand, I designed Hunters to be really hard to take down, to make their biggest threat be their scarce time, not the Preys themselves.
[Portion of post killed with fire, burned until nothing but ash was left.]
Looking at the Hunter classes... I think health buffs or something should be given to prey should the number of members playing ever become less than ten. (Or perhaps a little reduction on hunter health?) Since I see a minimum of 7 people playing (1 hunter and 6 prey) perhaps make the health buff or reduction related to the number of prey available?
Just trying to help.
Edit: took off the portion of post that makes it obvious I was half asleep when typing this. Still in support of the portion not made ashy.
@Skold
Taken from the original post: "If he doesn't manage to kill everybody else, the survivors get 10 points each and the dead are given 5 points." :D
And would the juggernaut have bonuses from his armor? Or would he get special armor from his class? Because all damage in T1 comes from elemental and normal, so even if the juggernaut didn't have a bonus for defense, using a combo of the break armor/helms could prove problematic.
Oh, and an idea to go off of Yech... not going to spell it out. But, what if you added the darkened edges on the prey instead of the hunter, and turned on friendly fire. It would cut down on polaris/other guns being spammed, and to counter it, the hunter could have a slight weakness to fire, but still be immune to everything else. I chose fire because it doesn't interrupt movement or debuff, it just deals straight damage. And the phrase "KILL IT WITH FIRE!" went through my head as well...
And as for a map, a jungle is a necessity. Maybe there could be some water in certain areas, and the prey could have a movement penalty when in the water.
Imma shut up for the next few posts, I've been commenting quite a bit.
+1 i think the classes have been really well thought through
Really?
Hm... Need to browse the forums on sugar highs more often :)
(hidden bumptacularity so more thoughts can be provided)
@Skold
As in the OP, to counter a smaller number of preys, hunters would have less time to kill them - less 18 seconds per prey, to be exact.
10 preys --> 3 minutes = 180 secs
1 prey = 18 secs
I wouldn't nerf hunters neither buff preys in this case since their main goal is to survive, not kill the hunter. Extra points for killing the hunter is only there to reward courageous players and to make the game more dynamic.
@Aemicus
Yes, they would have bonuses from their armors too. As in Lockdown, armor stats are added to class stats to compose their total of buffs.
About special armors, I think they could make the game a bit boring. Trying out the best armor combination for each class is an important part of the game.
About friendly fire, I decided to turn it off, because of reasons:
- New players might think they're playing deathmatch
- Prevent alliances (Hunter's friends might start killing preys too)
- Players could want to kill the other players with more points to be the first placed (since survivors get 10 points while the dead get only 5)
There might be some more possible exploits...
@Blue-Phaze thanks for clarification. Must've read right over that portion of the rules....
I'm in agreement with our Blue-Phaze in the friendly fire ruling too... way too many exploits possible. Great in theory, but in reality people would just start exploiting the crap out of it.
Edit: Had yet another idea for hunters... they should get armor additions that appear similar to prey armors (the skin of each class, you know what I mean?)... that way the hunter can get a bit more of a drop on the prey. We're basically talking an apex predator already... why not a little bit of natural camo to go with it?
Oh, you're talking about a way to distinguish each Hunter class by their looks?
Yep, they would definitely get some details for their armor, I think a camo would look stylish.
Some days ago I thought of adding a tracing glow on their eyes, similar to snarbolax's when it moves quickly. Since they're both predator like, I thought that this kind of resemblance could be a nice way to tell preys "watch out". what do you think?
I held off commenting for 5 posts... I need a drink.
Hmm, I just had an idea. I know you don't really want to add full screen vision to the hunter, or take it away for the prey, but how about this. You know how when you get scared, and the adrenaline rush hits, your world kind of contracts to maybe 5 feet around you? Well, that could lead into this. The hunter still has his vision penalty, and the prey still has full screen. HOWEVER, when the hunter enters the preys field of vision (maybe half an inch into the visible screen), the prey's vision contracts into the same mode as the hunter, and they instead get a "smell" feature, kind of like the hunter, but it just shows whether he is north, south, east, or west. This would last for 5 seconds, and the prey would get incrased movement speed as well, not as fast as the hunter, but faster than normal walking speed. If a striker used a boost during that time, they would just have their normal boost speed.
Don't bombers get a huge advantage if there not the hunter?
They can charge a bomb and when the see the hunter release and the hunter either goes into the bomb or waits, this does make shivemist buster and voltaic tempest very reliable.
.
This is an easy getaway if this map has narrow paths.
Does this need balancing or is it just how this works?
@Aemicus
Would be nice if I wanted to make it closer to reality, but I don't think it would add much to the gameplay.
Sorry, but it looks a bit unescessary to me =/
but don't shut up for the next few posts please, I like most of your suggestions.
@Spyash
the hunter either goes into the bomb or waits
or shields, or shoots the bomber before he completes charging.
Unless the hunter is an Assassin with no guns, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
@Spyash and the hunter is immune to statuses....
And would you allow costumes in this? It might be annoying for the hunter to have to guess which weapon to use against which prey.
disregard armor totally when the hunter is wailing on the prey. (Except for stuff like CTR or ASI)
I mean in all essence, I see a hunter as the kind of guy who just smashes through or (in assassin's case) bypasses armor.
This also heightens prey danger a bit.
thier status bombs don't work leaving you with not alot of bombs. maybe blast bomb set will work well it has knock back so that may help but really what bombs are good for prey?
@Aemicus
Yep, no costumes allowed, just like Lockdown. I totally forgot about that.
@Imperialstriker
I didn't get what you said... '-'
@Spyash
Bombers have a hard time as well as gunners and swordies.
I made hunters immune to statuses because of possible exploits:
Strikers would freeze the hunter and boost away.
Triglav users would freeze the hunter and deliver massive damage.
Sudaruska users would stun the Hunter and run/boost away.
Faust users would block Hunters' weapons.
LOTS of players (Polaris, Magma Drivers, Furious Flamberges...) would put the hunter on fire for free damage.
etc. etc. etc.
If hunters weren't immune to statuses, escaping from them would be a joke.
I know this leaves bombers with not many options but they are compensated with a really strong, bomber exclusive Hunter class, even though it's not exactly overpowered.
I'm surprised nobody has commented about entry costs or rewards yet. Any ideas on that matter?
I kinda assumed it would be the same as lockdown, but maybe not. Here goes...
Buy In: 200 cr
11 players sets it to 2200 cr total.
A couple ways to get money:
A: If the Prey survives: 150 cr to each. (Total for Prey, 2200, Hunter gets none.)
1: Prey that dealt the most damage: 400 cr
2: Prey that survived the longest: 300 cr
B: If the Hunter wins:
1: Prey that dealt the most damage: 400 cr
2: Prey that survived the longest: 300 cr
4: HUNTER GETS THE REST! (1500 cr)
Oh, and you could gradually win the Hunter costume pieces through bribes:
Hunter plate armor
Hunter plate helm (Reworked Plate stuff)
Hunter spy armor
Hunter spy helm (Reworked Chaos Chaol stuff)
Hunter Bombardier armor and helm (you get the idea) (Reworked Mad bomber stuff)
Hunter horned armor and helm (Reworked Ancient plate stuff)
Hunter Lone Wolf armor and helm (VERY RARE!) (Reworked Snarbolax stuff)
You're assuming that each round is an entire match, aren't you? (Yechezkel's suggestion)
But if each match had lots of rounds, like the original concept from OP, how would you distribute the rewards?
About hunter costumes, I guess that would give lots of work for the devs. Sure it would be awesome, but modeling and texturizing aren't easy stuff, you know.
Ooooh, I forgot about how the rounds work. Okay, in that case... one sec.
Everyone is the hunter twice (22 rounds) or 30 minutes (10 rounds)
Couldn't you just make it 33 minutes? That would give everyone the chance to be the hunter once, assuming you are rotating people through the Hunter slot before other people go twice. Kinda like electrons in an element... I need to stop studying Chemistry late a night.
Buy In: Screw it I don't want to do the math right now. I'll come back tomorrow and do it.
haha you're right, I didn't notice that one player would lose his chance to be the hunter. I'll change that right away.
I'll try to think of something for rewards too. I'll post it here later before implementing in OP.
if prey survives it should get 200 or 250 crowns whichever you guys think is better that way every one at least makes money back and maybe earn some.
@Bluephaze The alternating number of rounds makes it extremely difficult to set up an equation, and I set this set up for 11 rounds only. I would really suggest leaving it like that, so each player gets to be the Hunter once, and that's it, leaving a game timer out of it (the round timer I do like, though). Basically, if you wanted to add an element of time and shifting round numbers, you would need to come up with some multivariable equation with exponents, and I am not about to do that.
@Spyash Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that.
Huge block o' text warning! Random math equations warning!
So, new things here, and I noticed a problem. I suck at setting up equations.
This is my attempt:
Buy in: 220 cr
z=number of crowns (20 for this equation, as I am checking on only one round, this would change if there were more rounds.)
x=number of rounds
y=number of hunted who survived
w= number of hunted who didn't survive.
H= The hunter
Total number of crowns: 2423cr
Per round: 220 cr (20 per person)
These would basically be the equations for splitting up crowns if the survivors win at the end of all the rounds.
Survivor with the most damage= 2z/x (Basically this is his buyin plus the hunters buyin. I like to call it the Hunter Bounty)
Players who survived= 75 percent of the remaining money divided by the number of players who survived (if everyone survives, it is 100% of the money)
Players who didn't survive= 25 percent of the remaining money divided by the number of players who survived.
H=0
Check for full players 1 round (assuming the survivors won with no deaths): (2)(20)/1 = 40 cr to the survivor with the most damage) + (180)/10) equals 18 cr to each (so the player with the most damage gets 58 cr, and 9 other people get 18, bringing the total up to 220.)
Check for full players 1 round (assuming 5 people survived, 5 people died): Same amount for most damage player: 40 cr. For the other survivors: (.75(180))/5 = 27 crowns per survivor. For the people who died: (.25(180))/5 = 9 crowns per person. So, for the total to check it: (40+27) + 4(27) + 5(9) = 220.
HAHA! That works.
Now for if the Hunter wins: (note: there was no need for equations here, as the number of people getting money was constant)
Survivor with the most damage = 60 cr
Survivor who lived the longest = 60 cr
H= 100 cr
Comes out to 220 cr.
I think this works, but anyone who goes over it will probably find a multitude of flaws. have fun understanding my attempt at math on a computer :D
:D wow, you really put some effort there, didn't you? Thanks for being so enthusiastic and supportive ^^
Yeah, a match with a fixed amount of rounds could work as nicely. But I was thinking about an equation involving players' score, I mean, their final score should have some influence on their final reward, at least I do think so.
To set up a fair amount of crowns related to your Final Points, we'd have to discover what is the maximum amount of points one can rack up through an entire match (We already know the minimum is 0).
If you spot any mistake on calculations or anything, please, tell me:
25 + 25 (max points as Hunter(twice)) + 20 (remaining rounds) * (30 (survivor + killer points) + 40 (estimated damage points, assuming everybody would be T3 Juggernaut, wear penta trinkets, vitasuits and every other health buff available))
25*2 + 20*30 + 20*40
650 + 800
1450 would be approximately the maximum number of points one can rack up in a match (of course this is nearly impossible).
Which is also close to what I think would be a fair amount of crowns to reward someone with such a high performance. I said close, or else you would have to survive every round as Prey only to have your entry fee refunded.
So I suggest this:
Final Points * 1.4 = Reward in crowns
I don't know if this would turn into a crown sink or free money; there are way too many variables to calculate how many points a medium skilled player would get, but imo, looks quite fair to me.
But in case it is not, I guess we would just need to turn that (*1.4) into something higher, in case it's unsatisfying, or lower if it gives way too much money.
What's your take on this?
So we're going with people able to do multiple Hunter rounds?
The one problem that I see with this is that if someone does extremely well, everyone else is probably not going to be able to get money from this. And the other problem is that if you get a few players doing well, the crown output could be over how much everyone paid to get in.
Does the point system need to be directly related to how many crowns you get? You said that you wanted a team game, but this would add competition in between players on the survival team, and lead to most people going striker so they can get to the hunter quickly and get those few extra hits in. I feel like people should be awarded for being on the winning TEAM, not just being the best player. Of course, if everyone got equal crowns, this would start a group of people QQing about freeloaders and people who just hung back to let their teammates do the work, which is why I put in a small bonus for the MVPs.
Of course, this is your game, so you can do what you want with the scoring, but that's just my opinion.
And as for the rewards, and this could tie into points as well, maybe this could be something to consider:
1% chance of receiving a costume reward from bribes.
From that 1% chance, the person with the most points at the end of the game would get it automatically, next person would have a 75% chance of getting it as well, 3rd would have a 50% chance, 4th would have a 25% chance, and 5th would have a 10% chance, and everyone else would have a 5% chance.
Oh, and here is a condensed version of my scoring system:
Buy in: 220 crowns
If the preys win:
Everyone who survived gets 135 cr/number of alive players
Everyone who died gets 45 cr/ number of people who died
Prey with the most damage gets 40 crowns added to his winnings.
If the Hunter wins:
Prey with the most damage gets 60 cr
Prey who lived the longest gets 60 cr
Hunter gets 120 cr
Note: I changed the longest survived bonus from 40 to 60 to make it equally desirable to live as to go running in swinging randomly.
Also, I noticed a potential flaw with this. If every prey spawns together, it could turn into a group of guardian DA wielders just bunched up in a circle facing outwards. So my idea is to have the spawn locations for the prey dotted around the edges of the map, and turn of chat in between prey. It would be interesting to see how much suspense this added into the game.
Reward system: Agree with most of the above... honestly not in the mood to do too much math, but it appears decent.
Additional prizes: Armor set costumes would be awesome, especially the glowing snarby-like eyes... I know this would take time and wouldn't mind if it were released after a prolonged time of this Hunter v. Prey game were going.
As far as potential OP's, honestly, the way the system's been set up thus far, it'll be hard for one person to become OP or even a whole group. The status resists of the Hunter in place make them an extremely tough target to handle. Most the prey would really be capable of is guerrilla tactic gunning and even then, should the Hunter know their class well enough, they may not be able to beat the hunter.
Was there a reward for killing the hunter? I believe something should be given as bonus if the Hunter is killed.
Our biggest issue is that we can't exactly playtest these ideas until OOO makes a move on this concept.
Oh, and I forgot to add this to the last one, but it would also be better if there were no ally dots on the minimap.
@Skold
Yeah, adding the costumes later would still be awesome. And maybe OOO could set up a test server with this on it and just invite those who have supported this thread + a few other good lockdown players.
And sorry to anyone who was hoping to get the 100th post, but it is MINE!
To celebrate this, I have dedicated a new Colosseum game to Blue-Phaze.
"once you have played enough, gets overly repetive"
.....
Isn't that what happens with EVERYTHING?
I played Spy hunt in Combat arms lots before, and the only thing I got tired of was better players blowing my head up.