@Zinqf
Having played as a recon extensively before, I would argue that strikers that spammed their flourish combos were the easiest to kill.
You make AA seem like it defeats the purpose of a recon which it doesn't at all.
You have to be extremely close to a cloaked recon before the AA will lock on to them but by then a decent recon will already have slapped you across the face with a Faust, haha.
In alot of cases it is as easy as attacking them between flourish or GF/DA end swings...but when you have Max ASI all of that goes out the window and the recovery into another hit is astoundingly quick. This is where the player doesn't need to guess and doesn't need to care.
@Jaroche It's impossible not to guess where a recon is walking because a recon can only run normal speed. So if a recon stealths, you can always charge into autoaim range and the your character will turn itself automatically and find the direction the recon went from there. Any IDIOT will know where a recon is when they go into stealth, its about the direction the character moves when they are in stealth that autoaim figures out for you. When you start finding recons restealthing without autoaim, then you can drop the l2p card. Because at the moment your quote would only exist from someone who only plays striker. Don't deny it, we all know this to be true.
@Stardustfire Keep in mind when autoaim is turned off, lag works both ways. Lag will cause the server not to register a hit on an opponent because they weren't there 0.3 seconds ago. But lag will also not register a hit on you since the server shows you being there 0.3 seconds ago but you weren't actually there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-trip_delay_time
Now if you are getting lag SPIKES (1K to 5K small duration ping ms)...that is a different story and that !@#% is actually unplayable.
Seriously, people arguing FOR autoaim in lockdown are worse than the people that raged over CE prices going to 6-7k.
For the sake of removing all silliness of anyone thinking they have skill doing this...I uploaded 25 seconds of me using a flourish + autoaim.
Enjoy...cause seriously, no one gets it until someone that IS doing this comes right out and says its' OP. So here I am autoaiming.
I'm a Lockdown Recon, and I have never used autoaim. Sadly, this does lead me to sometimes swing wildly at empty air, but at the same time it allows me more maneuverability.
As for being attacked once the ! appears, I try to make it my policy to sneak up as quietly as possible. However, to my current experience no one has autotargeted me as a cloaked recon, with the exception of lucky Polagis-spammers.
@Zinqf
Oh hey look thur. It's 4 bar ping :3 - I ENVY YOU :<
Seriously, getting 4 bar ping and not knowing what it's like to not be somewhere in America/Europe or pretty god damn close, you can't get that part my part of the story without experiencing it firsthand. I get the lag where even if I shield/move away from an attack ~1 or 2 seconds before, I'll still get hit. I have NEVER EVER had lag make sure the hit not register the hit on me. Auto target levels the playing field for those not close to or living in Europe/America. Experience it firsthand and then what you say will become more valid.
From my decent recon in LD matches , we try to avoid good strikers one on one. Recon are meant like a sniper. If u can't kill them , make sure u heavy damage them . Sneak up . Playiing with recon dont require the macro controlling unlike striker . I belies playing as a recon uses more of your brain than controlling skills.
Lockdown, COMPETITIVE?!?!?!
Griseolar laughs.
Griseolar laughs.
Griseolar laughs.
Griseolar laughs.
Your voice has become hoarse.
The silliness of some of the posts in this thread amuse me.
-.- this conversation is pointless. People always gonna rage. I do too. I rage over the people who 3 swing their BTB's and FF's cause the third swing hits from a ridiculous distance. But this entire page of rage (hey look that rhymed :D) is completely pointless. SKILL????? Who duh [heck]? like, skill, are you serious???? your clicking a freaking mouse!!!!!!!!! congrats i bet that will get you a job in life! or maybe your mom will put pics of your scores on the fridge! Get a clue people! ITS JUST A GAME! And all other raging points over AA has been covered by a lot of the people i enjoy fighting such as Tennis, Nadocchi, Jaroche, and others besides Feller cause he thinks its such an "awesome skill". -.- just a game so stop complaining about AA and Trinkets and UV's, or else you will just be another Blueberry. (not gonna finish his name for reporting purposes :P)
Well to help those with really high ping due the fact that their location is too far away from the server's we would need either servers there, a ping based lockdown or the ability to "host" lockdown matches/general levels, but that would also have downsides. Anyways, I agree with the fact that autoaim needs to be removed.
Maybe players with a gamepad need it, but it still isn't fair to have something like that in PvP. The argument about ping is still quite crappy, I mean do Tf2 players with a high ping get an aimbot?
No. They just search for a server with low ping, so there should be an ability to host your own "server" (like hosting a party for example so you aren't bound to the spiral knights servers for hit registration. (We would then need a hack shield or simply VAC to make sure the host doesn't manipulate the Game to his advantage. Though VAC would make an SK account bound to steam, I would still consider it to be fair.)
But still those with high ping are the minority and they can't even shield effectively, so auto-aim doesn't bring them that much of an advantage.
I mean, yes it's a problem, but the problem with auto-aim is still bigger. I mean, I can always deal with auto-aiming bots in the regular game(which defines them as actually acting bots) since they're stupid, but human players shouldn't be granted with auto-aim, I would only be ok with it if all players were forced to use the same weapons and to use autoaim, but currently, it's just an unbalanced system that needs to be fixed.
1. Not stated it was cheating nor did it really give an advantage. No wait, why not use it yourself?
2. Just because you get killed by it doesn't mean it should be removed and ruin the experience for everyone else
3. I've seen gunslingers snipe with their Magnuses; I'd like to see how they'll do that without autoaim
4. Please, us 1 bar players need some sort of boost.
5. Sure I use autoaim, but "real pros" don't need it. Ever seen "footwork"? Those people don't use autoaim much, for the most part.
6. Autoaim+toothpick+attack key spam isn't really effective either. Try this on someone with said footwork skills, you may end up getting in 4 hits at most, but you'll pretty much lose the duel anyway. At least when both of you have the same hp. Maybe one of you carry a better pendant or something.
7. I've tried no autoaim. Yeah, it works well. What am I using? Nope, not your toothpick. Yes, it's your heavy swords. Learn to use them and one shall not rely on autoaimed toothpicks anymore.
8. It is there to help us, is it not? If you want to remove it, you might as well remove trinkets and pendants from Lockdown. Or just remove pendants and autoaim from the entire game altogether, since their main use was to give us benefit.
9. [Hate about to be garnered] Well it's a form of skill. Why not use it yourself? Because you don't want to? Your loss. :p [Hate garnered]
Other than that I'm gonna agree with Posts 21 and 45.
yes please turn off auto aim in lockdown (and in normal game too there is no aa in reallife;)
@Owaoforum Doesn't convince me, you're basically saying "Every Player without auto-aim is a pro, everyone without it is a noob who needs it." Really? If it is like that, then the PvPGamemode should be divided in Auto-aim and non-autoaim. I mean really, it gives such a high advantage to swordies and disadvantages bombers and gunners with slow pellets to a very high degree. You could say "It's fair to use an aimbot cause without it wouldn't have a chance to kill those advanced skilled players." That isn't the point of it. The aimbot feature has been added to compensate the bad aiming with a gamepad/joystick, not to compensate a lack of skill. The point of any PvP game is winning, and if you loose because you're not skilled enough yet, you shouldn't use an aimbot to compensate that, instead (even if that phrase is overused nowadays) learn to play! It's like saying "Hacking in any game is ok, cause everyone does it/can do it, so it's fair! I think we should just separate PvP Modes into Aimbot and Non-Aimbot, everyone would benefit, problem solved. You could still turn the aimbot off in the aimbot PvP, in the non aimbot one it's disabled completely, like PvP is separated into tiers. I doubt than anyone will have a problem with that, the aimbot mode would the same PvP as of now, the no-aimbot one would the one for players who want to win cause of their skills, not cause of autoaim. I bet most players would go into non-aimbot PvP. Why? Cause they want to loose or win "legally" and not cause of a stupid setting that encourages stupid button mashing.
ITT toothpick Strikers defending their precious auto-aim.
Please keep AA on so that ppl can do full toothpick combos into the air more often.
This opens them up to hammer smashes or a bullet to the knee.
+1 to all the comments from actual good players in this thread, especially Bacon's findings in #21.
I still think LD comes to whether the server gods have favour for you or not. Will your hit trump the others or not? No one stands there idly by while you rush them, it just looks like that to you. To them, they were at a safe distance. If you are constantly finding yourself dying half a screen away, learn to adapt like everyone else.
But honestly, we talk about fairness a lot, but you're playing pvp in a mmorpg. If you want a fair pvp match, go play streetfighter or something. If you want something in the style of lockdown, I would suggest Continuum.
That smooth connection, gosh. I demand all connection that spiral knights players have to be crappy as Asian plays.
Auto-aim removes the need to actually aim
Aiming is one of the few things that differentiate between people / requires skill
Hence removing any aspect of skill from sword-users in lockdown
Honestly, I can't believe that this argument is still going on, OOO should have disabled it a lonnnnng time ago.
One thing about ping issues. Doesn't lockdown only pair you with people in your area? I know at the top of mine it only says United States LD
Bahahaha All these sward spamming tooth pick user defending there pressures crutch XD, I'm a gunslinger so I'm all ready at a massive disadvantaged but this does not stop me from hold and entire team off keep them distracted from all ells that move spending there time trying to kill me why the rest of my team cap all other points.
I started playing LD as a recon but soon fount out with the AA there is no point playing as one because the moment you uncloack a tooth-pick will change its direction instantly spammer across the screen before you even fully uncloaked Its pretty much made recon redundant.
Also don't come that rubbish about gunslinger needing it to play and without it there usless, they don't need it and if they are using it there are not playing there class correctly your supported to lead the bullet just in front following their targets movements not hoping there pressures AA feature will lock on to them then pray it hits lol
so to clarify remove the auto aim feature will not only level the playing field for all classes, but we will soon see how well these so called Pro toothpick spammer really are when they are flailing across the screen and hitting nothing.
"2. Autoaiming makes Recons RNG to the point of frustration
Autoaim tracks cloaked recons. Every player knows this. Every player will spam sword swings everywhere the second "!" appears over their head because the players know if the recon gets somewhat close...they WILL get hit first."
Auto-aim does not in fact track cloaked Recons, I play as a Recon about 75% of the time and I can safely tell you that auto-aim is not what causes them to hit you, it is you being predictable. I can count on one hand the number of times I got my cloak broken yesterday, and if that was the case the auto-aimed Flourishes would have broken it a lot more. If you have played Lockdown for a decent amount of time, or played Recon well... at all, then you know how most Recons move. Once the Recon mark shows up most people will attack where the Recon is most likely to come from, right behind them.
Or the Recon is cloaked on a base that is changing and is standing dead center on it. Striker sees it changing with nobody on it, charges in, attacks dead center and BOOM Recon gets hit... again because they're predictable.
Personally I don't care about auto-aim, use it or not, it is fine by me. My main choice for weapons are heavy swords. 180 degree swings don't need auto-aim. And honestly if you can't hit with the dash from the Hammer, when you're on top of the target with its rather generous damage area, without auto-aim then you might want to work on your technique.
~Gwen
LOL Quit all of your complaining. You aren't going to change anything with all these negative comments towards the things that SK has made. and most importantly, SK would rather not deal with this issue because it creates too much tension in the community and its easier to ignore and lose like 15 players rather than change and upset tons of people who are so used to it. Even if it was changed, its pretty much garunteed for a lot of the "pros" that they/we (if i am included in that haha) can still produce high scores. I've done it before and still gotten over 10k its not that hard. Just takes a little practice to hone a skill that will have no positive effect on the rest of my life. so, go back to playing SK and stop ranting :D
"One thing about ping issues. Doesn't lockdown only pair you with people in your area? I know at the top of mine it only says United States LD"
Sure,but there are only 2 servers - United states and Europe.
Argentina and US are far enough to make a difference for example.
Just read the "Best Loockdown players" to see that people can't distinguish between real players and noobs that ABUSE of the 3 hit combo.
If the ppl keep saying my nick in the same post with Chris, Sciaz, Exile and others noobs I'll Hang myself.
They are just spammers Noobs, and the other ones you worship are just like them.
Spammers noobs everywhere.
AND STILL, NEITHER OF THEM CAN'T KILL ME WITHOUT WAIT UNTIL I'M OUT OF HP.
I'm the beast, they are just un-skilled noobs with UVs + HP trinkets with OOO aiming for them.
I'M THE ONLY PLAYER THAT CAN GET MORE THAN 30K WITHOUT AUTO-TARGET.
Cirrylmorrigane (or something like that) - catdog and ME.
Huh. I never use full combo unless out of boost and only turn on AA in GvG. There's no big difference if you're already good. You're not making yourself look good right now Feller.
Edit: If you still want to continue with the "I HAS MOST SKILLS" then come play me in an FPS that actually takes skill. Not Spiral Knights. This game isn't competitive.
Ok im with this idea, however, face facts that OOO probably isnt gonna remove this just for LD. At least not Anytime soon.
As of now, not using auto aim can potentially give yourself a disadvantege. By choice.
@Feller most of the good strikers I know do not use the 3 combo, therefore AA is not helpful to them at all. Also, I has no autoaim. It's better to ambush points without it because you are not honed to a guardian.
-Bobxloblaw
There's nothing to say in this thread that hasn't already been said.
Money says nothing will change.
Taking off AA makes your attacks seem faster. Also, it helps connect the second hit if the three-hit swords. I agree with both sides of the matter personally:
Pro-AA
Helps new players adjust to the difficulty better
aids players with lag issues/issues they cannot fix (slow computer: you're just a d*** if you say/think the player should "go get a new computer for better quality"
Helps connect full combos better (the more intelligent lockdown players have already figured out that using ful combos is suicide, and is a weakness that is easy to take advantage of. The less intelligent keep autoaim on and spam attacks, or if they are on the receiving end, they just spam attacks hoping they will get a shot in. It's the difference between players who skate around/dodge while being attacked (smart ones) and the ones who hammer the attack and hope their attack will be faster then their opponents' (not so smart ones)
People who live in places other than the US/Europe get a fighting chance. (I have played with 1 bar of connection: The lag time for me is precisely 2 seconds. You can test your lag factor by typing a letter and measuring the time it takes for the letter to show up on the screen.)
Anti-AA Points
Less skill required in lockdown with flourishes, which infuriates AA rebels.
Recon class is virtually unplayable compared to the other classes: Once your shield is broke, your ass is grass. Guardians can just ran away and shield cancel their flourishes, and strikers can skate out of harms way when needed.
HEAVILY punishes bombers/gunners. Bombers have no AA effect at all, which basically gives sword users an immediate advantage: The skilled gunners (SKILLED) do not use AA since they know it doesn't do crap for them. (BTW, Magnus snipes work better with AA off: I have killed runaway peeps with it before, and I never use AA since it slows you down-directed to whoever it was that said magnus snipes would be harder w/out AA)
....that's pretty much it.
To sum it up, people throw hissy fits over AA being for scrubs since they think it takes no skill. They believe that if AA were removed, LD would become more skill-based rather then assisted skill.
Personally, I think it would be cool for OOO to ditch AA in LD for about 2 weeks or so and gain some feedback from the community. In my opinion AA doesn't make much of a difference. When you are a starter, it definitely is significant. As you become more skilled in the game however, you will find that having AA on or off in LD doesn't make much of a difference. I could care less about AA, honestly.
Weakness of AA: Speed loss.
I once was getting banged by a Dusker with a flourish I LD. One thing was apparent though; they were using autoaim. I used this to my advantage: I got them to AA themselves down by the center shockpad in the Reactor. Once there, I let them combo me, leaving them vulnerable. After that, I knocked them into the shockpad with the hatchet ASI high from missions. They died pretty quickly....
Strength of AA: More damage
Against the button mashers. The pros will dodge and kick your tokus if you abuse your full combo
Last thing: If my typing makes me appear like some stupid f***, blame auto-correct. Messes everything up.
I say we need not get our knickers in a twist. :> Getting angry in LD because of things that needs to be 'fixed?' Stop playing for a bit and come back later. Or don't play at all. Simple...
@Feller
Man.. committing suicide just because your character name is in the same paragraph as others?
I knew you were absolutely bananas over Spiral Knights but that's some upsetting stuff right there.
Anyways, to me.. it sounds like the only person you're trying to convince is yourself.
Actually, I can totally imagine you in fetal position in the corner of a room yelling your post word for word, haha.
And FYI, writing sentences in all caps doesn't help your case at all.
Eh, it's there. It's neat, for those who want to use it. Personally, I don't need it - I can control my attacks to a degree. Do I use auto aim? Yes, occasionally. I use hold-toggle for those occassions when I believe auto aim will benefit me due to handicap or just sheer convenience. Either way, I don't care whether or not it is removed, but I will say that your enthusiasm to rid of it despite the fact that it was initially not available is a bit ironic, though I suppose this is only relevant to testers.
Regardless, auto aim is a feature that was added, and wasn't there to begin with. For this reason alone do I find it highly unlikely that it will be removed, and like a lot of AA-defenders out there, I'm going to tell you to use the resources given to you, or suffer the loss from declining. The choice is entirely yours, but you have no right to nag at others for using it. If you do, you might as well nag at everyone using anything mainstream, i.e. flourish/snarble barb, sealed sword, static capacitor, freezing vaporizer, pulsar, antigua, brandish, wolver, spiral demo, gunslinger and heart pendants, and should you use any of the aforementioned items or its branches you're a hypocrite.
...Shidara's right, as per usual, I suppose.
As mentioned before, however, there is no auto aim for bombers.
^ What happened to your love puppy Michael?
There should be something like auto-drop for bombers. That would be kinda neat, but too much of a luxury and not a necessity. I only suggest it because AA is completely useless for them.
There are times when Auto-aim is the best dang thing in the world of cute yet violent knights and there are times when using it is as helpful as covering your mouse in cheese hoping that'll cause it to stop double clicking. (Bytheway, don't cover your mouse in any edible substance and please do not stick it in the microwave.)
I use AA when I want or need to. If the game is lagging up, I will swallow my nonexistent pride and hold shift till I'm dead or my enemy is dead and I'm dashing into a wall. If I am in the middle of three strikers and am too unskilled to dodge all their hits, I'm gonna turn on AA and dance the dance of noobishness and death. If I am fighting Blueberry or someone else that hates AA, I'm gonna full combo their striker butt and laugh manically before realizing how sick I am in rejoicing over an opponent's frustration. If I am fighting a recon or a guardian that knows how to kill people who use AA. I'm gonna dash and slash or two-hit/charge their tough tushy with slightly less predictable striker/recon noobdom.
Does using AA make me a noob with no skills? Sure, why not? All that I know is that my team usually enjoys having me and I can help my team kick butt most of the time.
It may affect my game play some if AA is removed but I'll do what I've been doing to avoid sucking even more than I already do; I'll learn and adapt. I do think AA should stay though. Why? Because clicking the mouse button as fast as I can is how a true player plays.
Stay in school kids.
Like Exileddread said, Spiral Knights was never designed for "serious pvp", hence some gear line is clearly superior to others (read swords). If you want a real pvp go play Tribes or something like that. Fixing the game for pvp gameplay would actually alienize it from pve.
Quit crying, learn to play.
AND STILL, NEITHER OF THEM CAN'T KILL ME WITHOUT WAIT UNTIL I'M OUT OF HP.'
how else do you get kills?
@Feller Exileddread and Sciasz play nothing like you just described. Chris I'm not so sure of. I've been friends with Exile ever since he started this game and I can tell you firsthand that he's very good without Auto-Target. After digging through Exile's Lockdown Steam pics, it seems you've only played three games with him, all of which he's scored noticeably higher than you. I find it hilarious how you try to tarnish these great players' names out of blind rage.
@Jaroche That's absolutely correct. Spiral Knights is the farthest thing from competitive PvP and it's funny how serious people like Feller are taking it.
Still laughing at the silliness of this thread.
Some words of wisdom I noticed:
"Quit crying, learn to play." -Jaroche
"This game isn't competitive." -Exileddread
"I find it hilarious how you (Feller) try to tarnish these great players' names out of blind rage." -Nowaaymaan
"-.- this conversation is pointless. People always gonna rage." -Eater-Of-Worlds
"I LOVE KILLING JELLIES WITH MY BTB!!!!!!!!!!" -Alynn
"Whats Auto Aim? Its a feature that helps you aim at things.
"Why do you use auto-aim? cause you cant aim with your own skills."-Alynn (again)
"I don't use auto-aim, but my play style and how I get my kills even if I WERE to use it, nothing would be different... Again, Lockdown isn't based on damage points, it was focused on capturing objectives and gaining points, there's another thread floating out there where every person on one team got over 11k, yet they lost." -Snarkey
"can't auto-aim a bomb. Just sayin." -Tengu
"Sigh. Another pointless anti-auto-target thread filled with support from people who are terrible at Lockdown regardless of what their opponent uses... If you're skilled and you use it, you're still skilled, and if you're unskilled and you use it, you're still unskilled." -Eldibs
"Finally, I hate how using auto-aim automatically labels any knight as an instant Noob. It's like the whole F2P deal in Team Fortress 2. It's bad stereotyping." -Horizonknight
"Really train yourself to learn how to dodge those combo spammers, and before you know it you'll be able to defeat the average Lockdown crowd." -Tennis (Love your username)
"A thread about removing Auto Aim in LD and not a single word about gunners?" -Dukeplatypus
Note: I am against the removal for Auto-Aim, and I explained my reasonings earlier in the thread. I just thought I'd show some quotes that really show how silly this argument is, as people know this won't get changed. They just want to think they're pro and cry if they lose to someone who should be worse than them. The first blame would be Auto-Aim. Eventually, if Auto-Aim were taken away, people would need something else to Q.Q about when they're not on a 100 win streak in Lockdown. Don't flame me, as I'm not flaming anyone else. I just think that this topic isn't top priority, and there is too much whining in the thread.
In the end, the feature will always be there... we must deal with the fact that it will so that OOO can get their money from people in other servers that don't get grand connectivity.
Do I agree with such a function entirely? No... but it's utilization is what keeps players who may be skilled (no offense, just haven't faced you stardust) in the game because they likely have sucky connectivity. (No matter what ISP, Australians can't beat the speed of light (yet))
The people in favor of getting rid of auto-aim in Lockdown - "Well, you wouldn't have beat me so much if you didn't have auto-aim!"
The same people, if it were removed - "Well, you wouldn't beat me so much if you weren't using better gear than me!"
The same people, if the gear was removed too - "Well, you wouldn't beat me so much if you weren't CE rezzing!"
The same people, if CE rezzing was also removed - "Well, you wouldn't beat me so much if I had teammates as good as I am!"
The same people, if they were also on a good team - "Well, you wouldn't beat me so much if my internet connection was as good as yours!"
The same people, if they were also on an identical connection - "Well, you wouldn't beat me so much if I was on a computer as good as yours!"
The same people, if they were also on a perfect computer - "Well, you only beat me so much because you cheated somehow!"
You ever notice the phrasing used by the people in favor of getting rid of auto-aim? It's always "You only win because..." or "You can't win without..." It's never "I can't win when you..." The emphasis is always on the other person. It's always someone else's fault they lost, never their own. It's the kind of person that when they lose, they want to arbitrarily change the game environment, rather than learn to counter a popular strategy. You cannot please them, and changing things to try and please them is a fool's game.
Winners find a way. Losers find an excuse.
I personally believe AA is just a little benefit for people like me who play LD with their KEYBOARD. I don't have a mouse and I sure aint using my crappy trackpad to fight. Anyways, if you thought i was really good and now you think I am bad... I dont give a damn. If you thought I was bad... great I dont give a damn either. Just pointing out that playing with a keyboard only is a [crap] load harder than playing with a mouse. How bout you ragers about AA play without AA on the keyboard. Lets see how that works. With a mouse you have a full 360 degree playing ability. With a keyboard you have a playing ability of 45 degrees (I'm not sure if I'm doing my math right <_<). Up, down, left, right, Upper left, Upper right, Lower left, Lower right. Anyways, lets have fun in LD and have fun with what OOO has to entertain us.
/salute
DAMN!
That's even better than this rage-fest!!!!
But it is discontinued....
To help a son learn something, you need to stop helping him.
Auto-target helps NOOBS to kill something.
All this "pro" people that says something about "if you're good you can do anything" are fell in front of my foots DOZENS of times, specially Bacon, he's officially my son.
Anybody who use autolock is because they need it, any third strike of the FF with autotarget takes you a HUGE ammount of HP.
I don't support that noob feature.
I don't feel respect for any player that use it, better 1k damage than 30k with auto-target.
And Eater-of-worlds is correct, this is a game, but right now, is just a game for noobs.
Take it off and you'll never see again a 30k damage, except from me.
: )
I win 95% of games, and still HATE that noob feature.
Auto-target just give the noobs a small chance to beat me.
ROFL! Autoaim doesn't "track" cloaked recons; if you're too predictable anyone can guess where are you walking and swing... no need for AA. Learn to play.