@Eins-Zwei-Drei

Why should OOO waste their time with further programming trying to make this unintentional side effect "work" just 'cause you don't know how to properly utilize your precious "hipster" weapons?

Because it brought so much positive feedback (along with criticism) for the developers to simply ignore? If there is a potential to improve in a way that can increase the fun of LD then tell us why is it a waste of time.

And tell me with invincibility frame activated how can you use the blitz's charged attack even in point blank range? Or how can you use the cutter when instead of hitting like 10 times like it should it hits 3-5 times with great difficulties?

And calling others "incompetent" on using "hipster" weapons gives you a reputation on being a boastful individual. So please think before you type.

And you might want to tell Tsubasa about this opinion of yours.

PVP isn't a priority for this game. It's a neat little time-killing-mini-game that OOO has given us to busy ourselves while they work on supposedly new content.

This is the most invalid reason I have been reading in this forum for a long time.

PVP has become a part of the game, major or minor. If this game is suppose to stay popular it must maintain both PvP and PvE. This means that the gears you are using must be able to perform in PVP the same way it does in PVE (in a balanced way) unless developers specifically says that X weapon is PVE or PVP only.

If it doesn't it will always be considered as either Overpowered or Underpowered.

I don't have much to add to this, but it is worth noting that the Sudaruska charge hits properly now in Lockdown. Before people would only get hit by one of the two parts of the blast, which was a real liability if you hit with only the first part since it has no knockback. It's still difficult to land the attack, but to actually see opposing players reliably get launched out of my screen is very satisfying.

WOH

Catalyzers, sudaruska... Invincibility frames...
now it makes sense why I wasn't able to kill deathmarked people with Suda charge before >:[

edit:

Suda/trig charge is viable damage now
http://hosiplan.com/memes/faces/happy-rage-guy.jpg

I won't contest all your complaints, because they're understandable, but I just want to react to a few things:

> Antigua cancelling from backup
This has existed. I don't know why you're only complaining about this now.

> "One-shot by an umbra driver in my blindspot because of my armor not complimenting its charge attack and all the shots bounce hitting me."
ಠ__ಠ @ armor part of the complaint.

> "It takes no skill to kill someone in LD now, just cheap gimmicks..."
This is so reminiscent of the 'baw autotarget, baw skolver clones, baw hammer, baw polaris spam' business that was rampant before the patch.
"auto target takes no skill!"
"all you do is spam _____"

The main difference is that it all happens faster, and with different weapons.

---------
I didn't even notice that invincibility frames existed in LD until this update removed it, and it only makes me feel gimped when I think back to all the times I DID manage to land a 'critical' driver charge, suda charge, alchemer-slash combo, or any other time I pulled off something that pushed the limits of my ASI and it DIDN'T kill/hit. All the times my recon self would cloak-shoot guardians thinking I was missing shots or lagging because hits weren't registering.

---------

> "And now the GMs are finding this 'interesting'"

You know what'd be interesting? Listing out all the weapons, charge attacks, tactics whose viability was affected (positively or negatively) by the patch.

@Infidelslayer So because our responses are not apart of the homogenous discussion guys are use to in this thread, and shift towards the cons of the patch, you are annoyed? The thread is titled discussion, after all. And we are discussing how royally upset we are about this bug.

@Seiren Prior to this patch an antigua could not repeatedly cancel out my attacks. The invincibility frame would give me time to react. It is the same thing with getting stuck in a striker fury slash, which is at least close-ranged and leaves the attacker arguably open for an attack.
People shouldn't be getting one-shot in LD. Not from an alchemer, a hammer, or multiple simultaneous hits.

Taking the time to refute ALL the points me and Snarkey made without any hindsight or validity just puts into perspective how un-open this thread is to discussion. If you are content with discussing this topic with those who agree with your points and only that, I am fine with that. But do not put up the facade that this is open for discussion if you are just going to half-ass it and refute our valid points.

Weapons which have been buffed significantly due to this patch:
Hammer (One-shots anyone stuck in the rush)
Alchemers (charge attack one-shots anyone)
Sun shards (one shots anyone who steps on it)
Toothpics (Combo finishes off anyone not wearing pierce armor or a heart trinket)
Blitz (One shots anyone period)
Antigua lines (Can movement lock more frequently)
Cutter line (Stuck in the slashes and you're done for)

If you've noticed, these weapons were already optimal in LD, save for the cutter lines. This doesn't make make for a weapon-diverse LD, it just widens the gap between using non-optimal weapons in LD vs optimal weapons in LD. If anything, this just makes the striker class more prevalent, since they can now easily take out Recons and Guardians in two seconds.

No me gusta.

I enjoy spam. But not this much.

You bashing "hipster" weapons isn't really that justified, considering that by saying that you are basically saying, "screw diversity, if I have one kind of gear I should win."

It's not so much being a "hipster" as it is using weapons that you like, rather than hopping on a bandwagon to use the "best" weapons.

This new update really turned the tables on Lockdown, and I hope that Three Rings continues to look into ways to balance the game's PvP.

@Coatl, are you certain about how upset we are about this "bug"?

I'm actually in favor of this change to lockdown.

(Not directed at anyone now..)
Multi-hit weapons, like the Autogun and the Cutter lines actually have more of a use in lockdown than they have been before.

Every weapon takes skill to use, including the flourish series of swords (Barbarous Thorn Blade included). Indeed, It's often annoying to hear from another person "LOL POKEYSTICK SPAMMER", however with the uprising use of the Blitz Needle in lockdown, the change and the weapons now provide an effective means of turning the tides of battle. With this in mind, it provided me with more of an insight and more for strategy in lockdown and made the experience of lockdown overall enjoyable for me; "What weapon should I equip next? Will this armor set be geared toward my survival?" are just some things that popped into my head with the start of each map.

WEAPONS:
Weapons that are meant to multi-hit in PvE SHOULD do the same in PvP. I mean, it's only fair, right? It'd be a shame for me to buy a cutter, grow a fond attachment to it and THEN find out that I can't use it in PvP because "LOL IT SUCKS".

Yes, I'll admit the use of the Rocket Hammer in lockdown is cheap, however this is only with the dashing animation of the attack (The second attack). The first and third attacks do as they should. Being that the dashing animation has the capability to hit three times, and now with the lack of invulnerability frames, this hammer is very devastating, if not cheap to many. However, the hammer is fine otherwise.

I'm perfectly fine with the Cutter and the Antigua lines. I don't have to worry about missing a single hit out of my 10-hit combo (Cutter lines) or 6-shot combo (Antigua lines) unless if I have horrible aim on my opponent. You can easily escape as a Striker class, however not so much as a Recon or Guardian. Striker classes have a benefit here.

CLASSES:
The Guardian shield appears to have taken a heavy hit here, and that's saying this lightly. Strategies for taking down guardians are more straightforward and brutal. The invulnerability that guardians used to have after being hit is reduced to nothing. While this is depressing to many guardian players, I would recommend a fix of letting the guardian player keep it's invulnerability between hits, as well to players under the guardian shield while letting the weapons do their own thing against players who aren't in a guardian class and are not already protected by a shield. This will probably make guardians more useful, providing that invulnerability between hits and still having that chance to counter attack.

The Recon class is more of a viable option now than it ever was. Prior to this patch, the Recon class didn't see much of an asset to a team with regard to capturing points and getting sure kills. It was often difficult prior, but with the change of this patch, recons can actually surprise someone on the battlefield (Surefire kills, assasination, etc). The deathmark only adds to the pain and suffering because of the lack of defense your target now has; The deathmark now is a lot more terrifying than it previously was.I am now legitimately afraid of recons for this reason.

LETS NOT LEAVE OUT THE PvE EXPERIENCE THOUGH!
I now see myself being killed easier by enemies because of the lack of invulnerability. While this provides an added challenge to PvE, it can make it a bit unfair at times while in groups of enemies. You know that moment where you're surrounded by a bunch of jellies in the Royal Jelly Palace, Wolvers and Gremlins in the generic clockworks, or even Zombies in Firestorm Citadel? All of them can do one attack at once and suddenly I find myself laying dead on the ground.
Dead dead. Dead just like they were a goddess of vegetation, and I, an old vegetable fated for the crows.

Woe to my broken heart. It weeps for you. (A quote from RubyEclipse's heartbroken poem)

TL;DR I am fond of this patch, and while this patch provides some definite changes and strategies to lockdown, the change will have to be worked on to accommodate for balance in lockdown. Some weapons are overpowered and others are meant to act how they should act. A multi-hit weapon, with the exception of a select few, should preform in PvP as they do in PvE.

Ever stepped on a spike trap? A fire trap? A trap of any kind?

Y'know, those are invincibility frames that keep it from hitting you more than one time a second.

Well the guardian shield at T3 was already weak before this bug came in.

So a buff for it of any kind is definitely needed, even when this "bug" is fixed.

Coatl:
Taking the time to refute ALL the points me and Snarkey made without any hindsight or validity just puts into perspective how un-open this thread is to discussion. If you are content with discussing this topic with those who agree with your points and only that, I am fine with that. But do not put up the facade that this is open for discussion if you are just going to half-ass it and refute our valid points.

Well, I did say I wasn't going to contest all your complaints, because they're understandable. I only wanted to comment on those few points:
- Maybe it's because I mainly use Recon and can't dash out of antigua hits, but I've been locked from attacking thanks to antigua backup (not even talking about getting hit out of shield - I couldn't attack.)

- I was poking at the armor part of the complaint, because choosing weapons to counterpick what armor my opponents use just seems like basic strategy that everyone should be doing. I apologize I don't use piercing swords on piercing armor >_>;

- 'cheap': well, I respond to this word, because I'm under the impression that unless something's actually unavoidable, it's not "cheap".

Some things happen more often and more noticeably now, antigua lock and alchemer OHKO in mind (I've heard of it happening, and have gotten a 'critical' shot with storm driver in LD before), so I can't relate with those complaints.

But yes, I've seen guardians get sacrificed. I've seen blitz, sun shards, and alchemers OHKO. The one thing I haven't really seen is someone actually do that "i'm overpowered" business with the striker line. Those complaints are valid - there's a good probability we'll end up reverting to and staying with useless blitz, the lack of alchemer double ricochet, and who knows what else.

I wasn't refuting your points except for maybe the antigua lock, really. Just poking at the presentation.

-----------
Here's my list, building off of yours:
Post-patch:
Hammer - 2nd attack does massive damage now.
Alchemer - double ricochets now work vs players: This can lead to more reliable OHKO's and 'critical' normal shots. If people are grouped together, regular ricochets now "stack" with regular shots, more like how it works in PVE.
Sun Shards - multiple shards can now hit at once.
Flourish line - 2nd slash now hits when using the combo.
Needler line - All consecutive bullets now hit. Charge deals massive damage.
Cutter line - Every slash hits now.
Antigua line - Every shot hits now.
Troika line - Charge attack can now do the double hit, like in PVP. Previously, only one of the hits from charge would deal damage to a single target. This made it actually pretty useless in doing things like breaking guardian shields.
Blaster line - Double/triple shots now hit reliably
Catalyzer line [needs confirmation] - multiple charges may be able to hit now. I did a test and it didn't seem to work. If anything, hitting 2 shots in quick succession now works.
Dark retribution - Multihits.
Brandish line - Multi hit on charge.

Striker - fast-slashing swords are more viable now.
Recon - fast-shooting guns, or switching between guns and swords now lets you combo reliably.
Guardian - without the delay when taking damage, shield now breaks much easier.
Fighting groups - Groups tend to win against lone players now, as expected.

edit: DR added lol

Blitz needs a flat damage reduction or for only a certain fraction of the shards to hit; I don't care which since it's functionally identical.

Thats already how it works, anyone sees you whip one out and they can calmly walk over and interrupt before you begin to fire, with max asi even. Furthermore, at range how many of those bullets go to waste as is?

As it stands a striker kit can appear on screen and pass your location by before you can even begin firing.

The damage of 2 reg blitz clips is roughly 33% more then three FF swipes, and all shots will connect at only about 50% of its range. The charge, if you get hit by that then you prolly deserve it.

Yes alot of people were being spammy with Blitz yesterday, most likely out of curiosity more then anything. Some of the blitz complainers I wonder if they have even tried using the weapon! I guaranty when the novelty wears off people will get tired of using a weapon that *really* does turn you into a turret.

~Luke

@No-Thanks
If you want to fix "invisible mist bombs" then uncheck cull-transients.
Problem solved.

Coatl's comments have embodied everything that those people who've worked their way to the top are actually feeling. LD is NOT fun in it's current condition. You may think so now, but eventually (hopefully) you'll see that mindlessly plowing through a fight with little or no regard to technique or skill will become monotonous, FAST. If you don't figure that out soon I truly pitty you.

At this point, I want to give an analogy here and I can think of none better than the game of soccer. So let's say that your cleats are the flourish sword, gran faust, and other mainstream weapons and your shin guards are Skolver armor or anything else that has increased pierce defense. Many folks spend lots of time and energy training under the rules of this game and have become quite good at it over the years.
Now, In comes some average Joe in tennis shoes off the street and he gets completely trashed by a regular soccer player. The soccer player may not even necessarily be that great an athlete, but has the proper gear and has learned to operate inside the rules of the game. However, instead of realizing that the fault is with himself, the average Joe demands that the game be changed to suit HIM. He doesn't have cleats or doesn't like cleats because he thinks "cleats" are too "mainstream" so he demands that half of the field be covered in cement so he can play in his tennis shoes or sandles or whatever else he just happens to own to "change it up". He has no skill with his legs and doesn't want to learn, so he demands that he be allowed to use his hands and arms and do whatever he wants with the ball because it's much easier to just throw the ball into a massive net then to try to kick it in (where spamming and invincibility frames come in to the equation). And rather than purchase his own pair of shin guards he demands that other players not be allowed to wear them because HIS legs are getting beat up from all the foot-to-foot action that he has no chance against. He has no traction, no skill, and no protection, but he wants the game changed to suit HIS whims and says things like "Take That! you stupid cleats and shinguard clones!". The game no longer becomes soccer. It's just, well, it's just stupid (for lack of a better word).

Lockdown, as it was, took proper equipment and dedication in order to thrive. It gave players the satisfaction that they had worked hard, climbed the latter, and had join the ranks of the "pros". If you want this latest bug to stay, then ask that it be put into an alternate form of lockdown. You can call it something like "Kiddie Lockdown" or "Pretend Lockdown" or "Lockdown for the Inept" or something like that. But to say that THIS form of lockdown, where your tennis shoes and arms and legs play a factor, is somehow better and more fair than it was before is just silly, plain and simple.

Now, don't think that this means I don't want other weapons to be valuable. To be perfectly honest, I actually do! But, instead of making half the field into cement so that I can use my tennis shoes or instead of asking that spamming be made valid, why don't I simply ask that my Leviathan blade, Glacius, etc. be given slightly greater range, speed, or first the swing mechanic of the flourish? Does this make the flourish less valid? No, but what it does do is bring more flourishes into the battle field that have different damage types

That's all I'm going to say for now. I can't make you folks understand, but hopefully you will on your own.

Bulby pretty much said what most of us have been feeling about this patch in better words.
The GMs never take a look at the suggestion forum, regardless of how many LD players congegrate there and take the time to make threads about balancing LD. Considering this as balancing LD is a slap in the face to everyone who has a love for the sport.

In the end, I think they'll end up rolling it to how it was before, and that will be the end of it. There's nothing else to discuss, as all the things brought up from the patch have been exhausted in head-on confrontational arguements.

On the bright side, my Sun Shards can now destroy those nasty Wolver Clones, my Khorovod can now do uber damage when I use the charge, and now I can actually KILL people.

But now my Guardian Shield is pretty much useless, I keep getting shredded by Cutter and Autogun noobs, and Toothpick men are even MORE OP.

So... I LOVE THIS!!! :D It sort of brings more balance, although it does unbalance a few things. :/

OOO, please don't fix this! :D

A couple thoughts:

1. Players should not die from a single Blitz Needle charge attack. It's easy to abuse this mechanic by standing 'under' a person on the map. Due to the camera angle, the Blitzer can unleash a charge without the other person even seeing them. Also, it's difficult for non-strikers to avoid Blitz charge attacks in general.

2. Walking over a single Radiant Sun Shards bomb and dying is pretty ridiculous.

@Lukehandkooler
A striker kit. A striker. Guess me, the always visible guardian, can just slowly try to lumber out of that cone. Oh, wait, not really; I get to die or have my shield destroyed. Know what I've also had happen? Killed offscreen because its range is greater than my field of view, especially from the south. I suppose a range nerf could help stop that too.

I agree 100% and I think that giving the guardian shield a very considerable buff is supported by pretty much everyone that is favoring the recent changes.

My main point being that just because the weapon works well on ice cube Vanaduke or frozen Trojens doesnt necessarily translate to being overwhelming in other venues of play. Just firing the weapon once roots you in place for probably a good 1.5 seconds, its easy as hell to sidestep close up, at its most deadly capability and leaves you as huge pile of sitting duck. I was going so far as to hide mine the other night unless I was going to fire it because its prominent skin is a clear tell-tale sigh for players to wait till you raise the weapon to shoot then pres wasd to move accordingly before it begins firing.

I'm playing with 1600x900 res, not huge by any ones standards, but probably above average. Even with the widescreen, if I see a striker moving in from the west or east and try to shoot them they can still be on top of me and interrupt the regular attack before more then one or two shots complete.

If people thought the gun was unsafe before for devilites, which I can clean up easily with a Blitz, they are in for a whole new level of frustration and wreckless play trying to use it efficient in LD in all but very few situations.

~Luke

Not that I'm replying to anything too specifically, but I usually shock hammers with my storm driver and recon switch-shooting, interrupting or shocking them before they even get to their dash attack.

Something about choosing right gear, status, class, blah
*shrug*

edit:
post title given more emphasis.

@lthinkmynamewontfi
You completely missed the point of Bubly's post. It doesn't matter which sport it is. The fact is that people like myself have spent months practicing, and obtaining the gear suited best for the job. Then this 'bug' comes in and the majority of the SK community, who isn't that good at LD anyway, finds that the weapons that were once useless are now viable and even OP. Therefore they demand that LD be left the way it is now to cater to their 'needs.'

All these 'Skolver clones', 'spammers', 'AA abusers', and even 'ce rev spammers' are simply using the best tools that the game has left at our disposal. After all, if you want to be good at something, wouldn't you want the best gear to increase your performance and give you the best chance possible?

While I'm all for more weapons being useful and increased LD diversity, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the already active and competitive LD community.

Yes i agree i was one shot killing everyone in LD with blitz and so was this other guy they have to fix this >.>

This bug merely brought fast weapons in line in damage with slow swords.
The problem now is that more weapons can kill you in one full combo and as we all know armor barely does any damage reduction so we all die very fast.

The solution I propose is buffing the guardian shield as others have said and ebuffing armors so that having the right armor resist actually gives significant protection.

Don't expect a lot of detail.

Now, the most noticable thing is that it's easier to chain hits. My previous issue was my high level of aggressive play, which resulted in a lot of missing strikes because I attacked within the invulnerability period. While this on its own is acceptable, the reason I find this bug so intriguing is that I can now make some more interesting combination attacks.
Those whom have played me might have noticed I like to pull out my Storm Driver a lot. With this bug in effect I can make a devastating bullet-sword combination attack where I can fire at you and slice you up at the same time. In addition you can place a bomb and start swinging at someone inside its radius for a devastating sword-bomb combo (although difficult to pull off.)

What I really like is that parties can now pull off some impressive combination attacks now. I remember this one time I was playing in Frostbite, and my team stormed the enemy base and its control point. Suddenly I found myself blown away by a Nitronome, knocked away by someone's Gran Faust and into another's finishing Divine Avenger. The whole scenario was so incredible that I found myself awestruck to be killed of in such a flashy manner of team-work. Although I wound up as the victim, I have never been so impressed by a kill like this before. Were it not for this bug, with how fast-paced that was they wouldn't have been able to pull it off like they did, which I why I find this bug is a good thing for parties. You can now properly utilize team-work, instead of fighting for who's taking the hit and getting irritated with that gunslinger in the back that takes all the hits with their Argent Peacemaker when you could've inflicted their damage tenfold if you got the hit instead. Not to say that team-work didn't work previously, but the assailants would get off too easily because all hits wouldn't connect, sometimes even resulting in the group's defeat when in reality the assailant should've suffered the loss.

The next thing is that oddball weapons are now much more viable. The Striker has become a deadly force in close combat, and Autoguns become devastating shotguns. Making more weapons viable can only be a good thing. Now, before people go off saying stuff like "if you get caught in a Striker combo you're dead" and "Blitz Needle OH-KOs" - no. If you let yourself get caught in a striker combo, you're doing something wrong. And in that frame, if you have a rapier you can still knock them away and save yourself. I've done it. (You might need ASI, though, I cannot confirm this working without.) The Warmaster Rocket Hammer, on the other hand, has become lethal, and is in my opinion the only weapon that might've become OP. If you get caught up in its second strike, it's gonna take a miracle to save you. In spite of this, though, I find it difficult to properly execute it. Maybe I just don't have enough experience with it, but setting you up for a one-hit kill takes a bit of precision, and if the foe is too far away you won't hit them enough to actually kill them, or you simply won't hit them at all. This has happened quite a few times, so it's not certain death to face someone using a hammer, just be careful around them and don't let them get close enough to kill you in one strike. As for the Blitz Needle, if you get close enough for them to one-shot you, you've deserved it. They're easy to dodge. Alchemers finally have their bounce effect, which I am very happy for. Now they're even more threatening to the reckless wolver, and will make you regret standing in groups - as it should be.
Oh, and I saw someone rant on about how they got stun locked by an Antigua...have you tried running sideways? :|
"He's running in a serpentine fashion!"

I saw someone mentioning traps here, and while I can't speak for the freeze grates in Frostbite, I know for a fact that the spikes in Gardens seem to treat you as if you do have an invulnerability period, and I don't find the shock grates function differently either (due to the shock-chain.)

One thing really bugs me, though, and that is the guardian shield. It is nowhere near strong enough to withstand the relentless onslaught of a veteran striker in its current state. Maybe if guardians exclusively had an invincibility frame, then perhaps it could work out. That, or the shield needs a serious buff.

Guns actually work as they're supposed to now. Alchemers can clip enemies, blitz does damage, antiguas hit with every bullet, and catalyzer charges actually work. JUST LIKE IN PVE!

DVS description: "An assassin's armament whose edge causes deep wounds that seep with vitriol." I don't have a problem with the stun lock. It kinda makes sense and gives the weapon a purpose. Also easy to get around( range or gun its user).

Funny that a 'bug' caused a number of weapons to work correctly. I'll be sad to see this patched.

Because many points were said over and over, in different ways... which isn't Too bad per-say...

For those who worked hard to be the best:

It is understandable that you feel rage at loosing the value you worked hard for... But you must also consider this: all other equally *'d equipment costs the same amount of blood, sweat, and (ATM) FSC grinding. So we may not have lost anything, but we started out way lower then 'ya.

We paid the same cost as the precious Skolver gear, But got less... So why cant the Value be the same then?

To those who think the Best gear got better:

I have a Fearless Rigadoon that I can get to Max ASI. Let me tell you, the Flourish combo at Max Speed was NEVER enough to hit on an invincability frame... this means: The Toothpicks work the same as they did Pre-Patch.

I know this, I tested SPECIFICALLY for it. No change... The only thing it does is let all the other toothpicks hit you at the same time.

A Note about things...

For Lockdown... I saw Much more skolvers using Auto aim and flourishes... Why? Because they are Scared Out of their minds that things like a DR can make a CP utterly unobtainable, or that a ASI cutter can ambush and kill them in one long, uninteruptable combo. Or, even better, getting hit by a charge of a Volcanic Pepperbox that throws you back towards the Group you were trying to run from.

Fact is, Wolver strikers Are NOT the best anymore... and that generates Many, MANY complaints and rage.

About PvE

With this lack of mercy Frames, many of the things that might not be so deadly, can now be a actual challenge. Hoards of scuttlebots, Zombies, Kats, and grievers will slaughter you if you don't play it safe. Because now they can chain attack. Diving into that shambling group of zombies now has to be dome Much more carefully: even a DA can get swamped and literally eaten alive. That is a good thing. It teaches through trial and error that maybe being a glass cannon (Steel cannon atm... -.- fix those armors!) is REALLY detrimental to your health.

...

So yeah, anything else that I should speak of I'll try to read after this post... just soo much above me. @n@

EDIT:

This is mostly a response from bulby's post... and I understand that He prolly won't post here again... But I have a few problems with what he said...

First off, It is that you have to use Optimizing armor (Bomber, gunner, wolver) to be good at this game... The armor you have is indeed equivelent to the Shinguards or whatever... as well as the weapons for the Cleats...

But What I'm reading, is that because someone is using a Chroma suit, they have no skill...

"The soccer player may not even necessarily be that great an athlete, but has the proper gear and has learned to operate inside the rules of the game. However, instead of realizing that the fault is with himself, the average Joe demands that the game be changed to suit HIM."

This leads me to believe that LD is gear based... HRRRMMMMMmmmm....

Also, what I see as hipocracy... which, MIGHT not be... but here...

"LD is NOT fun in it's current condition. You may think so now, but eventually (hopefully) you'll see that mindlessly plowing through a fight with little or no regard to technique or skill will become monotonous, FAST."

...It was already monotonous and fast: Skolver spamming flourish and GF's and when they find an annoying bomber, the trusty polaris. But look here... I can assassinate a gunner hassling my team, I can make a zone where nobody can attack, I can kill whole groups with a lucky shot. LOOK! Change! Thats not monotonous... Especially if we follow up with a major Guardian buff, and Fix many of the armors and weapons. Then we can have ~100 ish Different, Viable Pieces of gear.

I'm sure that having a world where chromas and jellys actually dukeing it out next to Wolvers and demos would lead to MUCH more tactics then "Striker/Skolver/Flourish/GF/Sentenza/Polaris+AA+Decent PC and internet = win" Which is what it is pre patch.

And over here...

"He doesn't have cleats or doesn't like cleats because he thinks "cleats" are too "mainstream" so he demands that half of the field be covered in cement so he can play in his tennis shoes or sandles or whatever else he just happens to own to "change it up". "

So are you saying that all of the ~70 usable gear items are NEVER supposed to be used? That's far more then the Handful of gear that is usable in LD atm.

This here...

"He has no skill with his legs and doesn't want to learn, so he demands that he be allowed to use his hands and arms and do whatever he wants with the ball because it's much easier to just throw the ball into a massive net then to try to kick it in (where spamming and invincibility frames come in to the equation)."

Let me get this straight... Because the gear and such are unbalanced, and people want to make it fair, that's wrong? -.-

I think that asking the sponsors and Coaches (Devs) For actual cleats and Shin guards is more then fair... because coming onto the field as of now, With sup par weapons and armors, is alot like walking onto a Soccer field and having tennis shoes and maybe a piece of paper wraped around your shins. But the thing is, I paid say... 100$ for that piece of paper and Tennis shoes, the same price you did.

And it's not supposed to be the Stupidity of players that choose the sets... Its the coach's and Sponsors JOBS to make sure each piece of gear is balanced Relative to the other gears.

...

...

Also note, I do not approve of "You can call it something like "Kiddie Lockdown" or "Pretend Lockdown" or "Lockdown for the Inept" or something like that."

Or calling out Hipsters and implying that they should be disregarded... Because Some might take it that way. And I don't think that it's so great to be doing things like that... Do you?

I'm sorry but Bulby's post was anything but 'well said'. Analogies are not a legitimate form of argument as Ithinkmynamewontfi has pointed out. Second of all much of his argument involves subtle (and not so subtle) attacks on those who don't agree with him. Onto his actual arguments:

1) Pros aren't pro any more . Yes everyone can just spam-attack now. That will obviously work when you easily out-gear your opponent. But when you come up to someone with similar gear, spam-attacking will not be an advantageous tactic. In such cases skill will still determine the victor. (A possible mid-ground here would be to remove auto-aim, but that's an argument for another day).

2) Weapon diversity is bad . Going off your soccer analogy you want everyone to be geared similarly and skill to be the only determining factor in who wins. Lockdown was clearly not designed to be about skill only. When it was first introduced, one of the main selling points of lockdown was the ability to use your own gear. As someone else has already stated, the class bonuses clearly place an emphasis on gear. (NB. Your end paragraph regarding weapon balance creates problems with the clockworks balance. Also it won't make a difference to many weapons where invincibility frames are the only thing holding that weapon back. I find it ridiculous that weapons should not be able to function as they were designed due to invincibility frames.)

Now there are some issues with lockdown exactly as it is (guardian shield being useless, hammer being overpowered etc.). Nobody is denying that. Obviously some fixes must be made to mend this. However I don't think reverting to invincibility frames is the way to do this. (I don't mind it in the short-term while they think of solutions to the problems posed by this patch though).