Spiral Knights - CE market

CE market

279 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:30

#51

Yanos-Aldrin

The damage has been done.

The damage has been done. Those who were lucky enough to be in the right place and the right time with the right resources benefited for a very short time. Life isn't fair, we know.

There won't be a rollback, due to that every account that took advantage of that situation would have to be examined manually and adjusted manually, and I dont think OOO is willing to expend the manpower for that.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:33

#52

Retequizzle

But at this point, if they

But at this point, if they end up having to roll it back, shutting it down would be pretty pointless - the initial damage has been done, and you can bet that they have a GM or two set solely to monitor the market for the time being to follow up on anything that needs following up on. Which, in essence, is the GM's job anyway. Not to mention shutting down the game would draw a lot of attention from people who genuinely don't know what's going on.

The fact of the matter is, a wait-and-see approach is probably more conducive to damage control than shutting down the game and announcing to everyone that one person managed to completely invalidate the free market system they tout so highly, especially in recent interviews.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:39

#53

Canine-Vladmir-Il

so....

so a few super rich P2P is mad cuz a few lucky F2P has the same crown net worth?
and want the hack generator to be destroyed?
I think this is called karma.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:39

#54

Vokster

I just rolled 3 million of my free crowns at punch and got nothing. BEST. DAY. EVER...Back to Borderlands 2.

Here's another epic pic of the madness: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/937004602496281384/BCEBE536F390634EBBA...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:47

#55

Rommil

Derpules,

Look at your very first paragraph there. This is way they need put the game on hold and the exact collateral damage I am talking about. You just have to connect two very close dots to understand.

If they do a roll back--which they should IMO--then anyone who does something legitimate between then and now will suffer. If they go down for maintenance, then less people run the risk of having legitimate programs erased. Very simple to see.

And yes, a small subsegment becoming disgustingly rich, and a larger subsegment becoming less disgustingly rich, and a larger segment becoming well to do, all unearned and potentially from some sort of hack or illegitimate means is enough to break the economy. You'll see a prolonged and inflated CE market, a prolonged and inflated accessory market, where anyone who didn't prosper from this will be unfairly penalized.

As well as a max exodus of players quitting the game. Me and pawn included.

@ canine don't be obtuse. Think bigger than yourself, man.

I spent over a year slowly building my empire in game (with a small 75 dollar initial investment) and now players have amassed twice what I have in a matter of less than half an hour through through some sort of glitch/hack. Use your head and quit thinking about this game in terms of free to play versus pay to play. View it through lens of right and wrong, the spectrum of fair and legitimate versus unfair and illegitimate. This isn't about knights versus knights, it's about wether or not something underhanded took place or not. Geez man, I don't get you.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:45

#56

Yanos-Aldrin

rofl @vokster xP

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 12:52

#57

Canine-Vladmir

well....

are you mad?
basically, this happens in everygame. cashed 100000 battlefunds to find out they gave a free promo and everybody else had free battle funds and permant weapons. i didnt get mad. i just figured out how to get more battlefunds. Stuff like this happens all the time. but being threating or PO without a direct answer from OOO is not cool.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:04

#58

Yanos-Aldrin

you know the funniest thing about all this is?

All this 'fake cash' inserted into the SK economy is probably just going to be evaporated in UV rolls or whatever else crownsinks are out there right now. That's what I would do with it, outside of getting a hold of a volcanic wolver tail.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:06

#59

Bugtester

It's funny

You know, if you think about it, this was the best that could happen to SK.
Before you rage: While the momentary damage is huge, in the long run this issue was the kick in the nuts the game needed. You don't honestly think OOO would change something about their stupid as **** market system if there wasn't some great disaster, do you?
Although I don't think they'll do anything anyways. After all, this is OOO. Maybe we'll get a money themed promo as a compensation. Ha, that'd be somethin'.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:07

#60

Derpules

Ah, Rommil.

Inflated acc prices? Not sure about that. Maybe the higher end ones. Most players won't feel any difference--not everyone's after twilights or sprinkles.

Maybe UV prices will rise a bit? Unlikely, and if they do, well, good. They've been too low for quite a while.

The CE market has already pretty much returned to normal, which shows your fears of inflation in that quarter to be unfounded.

As for you and Pawn quitting: I do think that would be a disaster, as you two add so much to the community. But--sorry to say this--it would not be an economic disaster.

Bottom line: Ultimately, this just means there's a few hundred million cr more in the system. Some of that will get rolled away at Punch. The rest will get passed from player to player in trades; most of that will be high value trades between rich players--effectively, the money stays within a small circle of players. It's nothing the economy can't handle.

If they leave the exploit unfixed, then yeah, of course everything will come crashing down if others discover the method. But this 10 mins of madness won't even dent the economy.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:16

#61

Jade-Rabbit

lunch ftw

I don't see any protesting so i'm guessing this whole CE market thing isn't a big deal. I didn't even know about it until someone whispered me and I still didn't care. Some kid w/ to much money probably had nothing better to do. Anyways I made lunch instead of logging onto SK when this all went down. oh well at least that shrimp alfredo was AMAZING.

... damn it Nj some running around >: o

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:25

#62

Kalaina-Elderfall

Except that anybody who got

Except that anybody who got millions of free crowns can turn around and use them to buy back CE. Which basically means they got tens of thousands of CE for free. The game's economy is built around players who buy CE with real money. So basically a few people got hundreds of dollars free just because somebody found an exploit. Completely ignoring this is basically the same as OOO saying they don't actually respect the value of the money we've spent on their game. Sure they're happy to have it, it's money! But once they've got it they don't feel the need to honor its value beyond giving us what they said they would give us for the money. It's like buying a car that works for a few days and then breaks down, and then the guy who sold it to you says "You bought it, your problem."

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:25

#63

Skyrazer

Not sure.

Not sure what happened this morning, as I heard the same thing happened again. But I'm glad thats dealt with. I'm pritty happy, even tho I find it hilarious, to not see http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=99178566 <- THAT ever again...

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:37

#64

Pawn

@Kaliaina-Elderfall

Thank you.

@Canine...you have been crybabying about p2p vs f2p since u first got here. If you don't have anything intelligent to add then add nothing.

@OOO please don't let people recieve $1000's of dollars worth of crowns/ce from a hack. please do not let people receive 1000's and 1000's of ce/cr worth of effort from a hack.

Please do not demonstrate that i care about your game more then you do. This has been my favorite game that i have ever played. Don't drop the ball on this one. Step up to the plate and fix it for once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:39

#65

Grittle

Sorry, i just awoke from a

Sorry, i just awoke from a brain swelling because of 30kcr per 100 ce, so what just happened?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:41

#66

Kennergy

*Sniff*

Sorry, I sneezed.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:45

#67

Yukarie

Wow, what happened here?

Wow, what happened here? Someone hacked 900mil+ crowns, and mashed the Buy Energy button or something?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:47

#68

Rommil

welp

there you go. post #63.

All you had to do was have 100 ce and click buy now and you have yoursel 9m crowns. if you had 1k ce you could have had 90m crowns. No telling how many crowns NJthug really has O.o as you know he just handed 69,696, 696 over to his main for the picture. Game. Is. Broken.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:54

#69

Derpules

@Pawn, Rommil

I really should agree with you. I'm not sure why I don't, really.

I've also spent hours and hours merching. In addition, I've spent a lot more actual money than you have. My efforts as much as yours have been devalued; my real money spent, which exceeds yours, has also been devalued. But I'm. . . pretty okay with this, actually. And it can't be the piddling 1 mil cr I made. People like you could sneeze 1 mil. And I already pissed that away at Punch and on lockboxes anyway.

Perhaps the bottom line for me is that I'm not actually much worse off. Suddenly a lot of people are far richer than I am. Good for them? Maybe they'll spend some of that wealth buying things from me. :P

I see why you're upset. And if it takes a rollback to get you to stay, sure, I'll sign on for that. But I think it's rather an overreaction to quit if no rollback comes. I thought you were staying for the community anyway--surely it's not the prospect of growing ever richer that keeps you here.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:53

#70

Skyrazer

@ Rommil

But, I didn't, so my hands are clean in this mess. Though I did buy some CE after the price got back to normal, so my hands may be a bit dirty... Its still interesting, and somewhat concerning there are still loopholes in the game like this... The ammount of cash that got drained into the market for one day is.... enormous. I hear a fiew people yelling around haven they sold 100 ce for 5 milion or so. I hope they did fix this... Wouldn't want to see all that again....

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 13:55

#71

Darkbrady

Gotta agree that this just

Gotta agree that this just doesn't seem legitimate to me at all, especially just coming from one person alone.

@Whoever thinks this won't cause any damage: Imagine you suddenly have a spare, free 100m cr to do whatever you want with. What do you do? Because if you (and everyone else agrees) to keep it in the bank forever and ever, then it won't do any damage. But as soon as you realise that you can get whatever you want with it, you create inflation. You see some featured auctions you like, B/O them. You see some acc's you want, B/O them. A dozen others are doing the same thing, becasue they don't need to worry about saving any money, so suddenly a lot of rare acc's are becoming rarer. (i.e, price up). Another option is to buy back the ce you sold at negative cost. How about buying another 30k as well, since you can afford it? That's inflation for you.

Just look at it in real life. Give 100k people £5m to spend and tell them they're not allowed to gain interest, spend it on rent, food or any necessities; it's purely luxury money. People start buying cars (fuel), toys, games, expensive goodies all over the place; it's the very same reason inflation affects current prices every year anyways, but on a vastly increased timescale.

Even if the crowns were legitimately gained by someone, somehow (idk, 20 FSC runs every single day for TEN YEARS?) there's no question that this action has achieved nothing but economical damage. Even if it was his idea of charity, it's only going to do more harm than good for the community as a whole.

@The people shouting at Nj: would just like to point out that he actually missed the whole fiasco and is completely innocent of any profiteering~

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:01

#72

Yukarie

Derpules, if I had to guess,

Derpules, if I had to guess, it might be because Rommil and Pawn were trying to "be the richest", given their competition between the two of them for seeing who could get, what was it, 100mil crowns + 1mil CE. It might be, to them, that was the game they were playing, and well... having someone cheat and get what they got that fast somewhat invalidates their game.

For me, not seeing a rollback would be rather dissapointing, given that it's another chance for OOO to step to the plate and clean up what amounts to be glitched money in the economy. The first chance being the virtual money gained through the UV ticket fiasco.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:03

#73

Kalaina-Elderfall

We don't realistically know

We don't realistically know the damage. If earlier person's wild estimate of 300 million crowns is true, then it probably won't really matter much. That's not enough to impact the economy in any legitimate way. And you know, that's fine, pragmatically. Life goes on for the rest of us, business as usual, doesn't really matter.

It's just that this sort of thing shouldn't have happened in the first place, and it's similar to OOO drawing random names out of a hat and showering them with free crowns. A game with a direct real life currency -> ingame money conversion rate shouldn't do that sort of thing, because it turns the value of money into a joke. Money doesn't mean that you've bought it or earned it or worked for it. It means nothing.

So yes, it really is the principle of the thing.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:07

#74

Timeclock

Dreams can come true :D

If i ever get my million dollars, I'll raise the prices of crwns like this one time.
If i ever do it I'll let everyone know about it 2weeks in advanced.
It's obviously set to go up this way because if it wasn't Sk would have said somthing about this in a negative way.
This was not a bad thing, contrary; it was a great thing to those who where able to get in on it :D

To those who got there "millions."

Remeber the poor.
Give to a charity (Spiralknightz guild, is a good place to start, lol :D )
Dont look dwn on others do to your new found wealth.
Give thanks and smile always.

Yours Truly,
Timeclock

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:11

#75

Poetry

Anyone else reminded of this?

http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/original/47296.jpg

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:18

#76

Timeclock

Haha, nice one poerty :)

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:35

#77

Dhmorgousbord

Those nasty Gremlins, they

Those nasty Gremlins, they were so tired of being beaten on by us knights that they decided just to shoot all of their weapons at Haven. Unfortunately, they shot all of their money at Haven instead. They should be along soon to clean up

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:35

#78

Artistbma

And we're trollin, trollin,

And we're trollin, trollin, trollin, trollin, trollin all the market.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:36

#79

Vanillateddy

Made my day thank you.
you too art, sorry it was intended for cyt

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:38

#80

Retequizzle

The people who actually think

The people who actually think Nj participated in any of this is hilarious. It was just a bunch of us throwing crowns together so we could make 69,696,969. Those crowns are a pool of funds from several people that were on once threads started showing up in General Discussion.

Teehee.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:40

#81

Serell

Yep, EoS and their trolling.

Dang, what an exploit. Hopefully it gets fixed... ohwait it'sOOO

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:42

#82

Vanillateddy

Well lets hope they do something besides just banning...

Because otherwise the banned hacker won and showed that if you play this game they dont care about you.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:45

#83

Devastator

Food for thought. If you can

Food for thought.

If you can prove that it's a hack, then of course, you can change it back to the past, since someone created something out of nothing. But, it's very plausible to come up with that many crowns among a group of people. I prob have about 10-15m worth of goods that I've amassed since beta, and there are plenty of people who have a lot more in goods than I do because they are better in-game investors or sink in hard capital. To come up with 1B worth would mean having maybe 50-100 or so people pool their resources together and pull off a stunt like this. If they feel like donating their money, then they donate their money.

Also, consider this. If I have 1B cr, and I give 100k cr to 10k players, will that cause noticeable permanent damage? Each can roughly craft 1 5* item or buy 1 nice UV.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:47

#84

Darkbrady

Also, consider this. If I

Also, consider this. If I have 1B cr, and I give 100k cr to 10k players, will that cause noticeable permanent damage? Each can roughly craft 1 5* item or buy 1 nice UV.

If that was the case, sure. But that's not what happened.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:49

#85

Vanillateddy

Ouh Shiny

As Dark said, because what happened is everyone got more then 10k they got millions.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:49

#86

Eurydice

Community Manager

Here's an update on the

Here's an update on the situation, for those interested:

We have now confirmed that the market fluctuation was the result of a single person encountering a bug and then later exploiting the result by flooding the CE market.
We have removed the crowns that player illegitimately received, and the CE purchased by the player with those crowns.
The exchange has self-corrected.
A few other players did benefit from the market fluctuation, but our logs show that the bulk of the resulting crowns have already been sunk via Punch. As such, we will not be initiating a rollback.
We have now patched the bug that caused this situation, and we have determined that the bug was not encountered and exploited by other players. We apologize for any inconvenience and upset that the period of inflated CE prices might have caused you.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:51

#87

Vanillateddy

@Eurydice

What about the people that still saved that money is that included in the "The exchange has self-corrected."

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:52

#88

Artistbma

Man I wish I was online

Man I wish I was online during this.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:53

#89

Vanillateddy

Who doesnt?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:55

#90

Retequizzle

Thank you for the update,

Thank you for the update, Eury. It is nice to know that the exploit has been fixed, but it's also nice to see that there won't be a rollback, primarily because of the purchases I made today and the unlocked Surge Boxes as well.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 14:58

#91

Vanillateddy

Ouh Shiny

Anyone able to get on SK as of right now?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:02

#92

Kalaina-Elderfall

I'm satisfied enough that you

I'm satisfied enough that you actually looked into the situation and remedied it to the best of your ability. I know it's a mess, and there's no good way to undo it. I'm obviously still not happy, but the fact that you guys actually care enough to look into the real problem rather than just patch the bug and move on is enough to pacify me.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:05

#93

Doctorspacebar

Question.

How many bombs did the player own? And did he have a Radiant Sun Shards with CTR VH or Undead VH?

Just curious.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:06

#94

Yanos-Aldrin

Heehee

"A few other players did benefit from the market fluctuation, but our logs show that the bulk of the resulting crowns have already been sunk via Punch."

Called it.

I wonder what the exploit actually was though... Was it an in game thing or did the user have to use some sort of external program?

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:08

#95

Heimdallr

I wonder what the exploit actually was though... Was it an in game thing or did the user have to use some sort of external program?

I'm curious about this as well, but I'm not expecting them to go into any detail about it.

Oh well. :(

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:10

#96

Byas

Wait, there will be no

Wait, there will be no rollback because the illegitimate crowns have been turned into UVs?
What the hell. D:

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:10

#97

Smur

http://static.someecards.com/

[No linking to profanities, please.]

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:11

#98

Doctorspacebar

Maybe...

If the bug's been patched so that it can't be exploited, they might tell us.

I'm curious too. Heh, I leave the game unattended for a few days (you can blame TF2) and everything goes nuts!

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:12

#99

Eurydice

Community Manager

> Was it an in game thing or

> Was it an in game thing or did the user have to use some sort of external program?

It wasn't an external program. It was an extremely rare edge-case-y bug that someone happened upon and then decided not to be a good citizen about.

Wed, 09/26/2012 - 15:18

#100

Vanillateddy

Honestly

I found an exploit this morning..

I had gotten a message from the AH and it was my bushy tails selling for 2500

i got that crown and the message renewd itself and i got the money again.

But i stoped after the second time and thought nuthing of it.

Could this be a probable cause?

Edit: POST NUMBER 100!

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