Spiral Knights - Open Discussion: Brining Back the Shard Bombs? Petition Included!

Open Discussion: Brining Back the Shard Bombs? Petition Included!

426 replies [Last post]

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:30

Oatmonster

This is Future OatMonster speaking to any newcomers of the thread. I don't necessarily want the new bombs removed. I just want the old shard bombs to be re-implimented. Although many valid questions have been brought up, OOO continues to dodge them, or ignore them completley. Back to Oatmonster from June.

In a post by Nick regarding the Crystal Bomb line here, he explains his plans on completely chanigng the crystal bombs into what are essentially cluster bombs. His reasonning behind this is that the current shard bombs are "not very bomb like". due to their long range and non-solid AOE. I honestly think this is a terrible "reason" to change the mechanics of this bomb. In his post, Nick states that "guns fire bullets, bombs create areas of damage, and swords do a mix of the two". In this case, maybe mist bombs should deal damage in the whole radius. Maybe vortex bombs should loose their suction and just do negative knock back. While we're at it, how about we remove the projectiles in the SS and brandish charges, and the projectiles in the Winmillion attack and charge. How about if instead expanding, Polaris shots would just deal more damage and have the same hitbox size as Antigua bullets. These are only a few of the weapons that slip outside of their "categories" and I think it's just not right to single out the shard bombs.

I feel like this proposed change is unjustified and although creating a petition is not the sort of thing I would normally do, I think this is just something that has to be done.

Sorry for the rant.

Official Links:

Useful Links:

Eeks' Shard Bomb Page (Lots of videos, many good side by side comparisons)
Well No Wonder
The RSS was "OP"? Lets get rid of other OP stuff
Lizzi's thread
Tsubasa's thread
Fehzor's thread

Questions I want answered:

Why was the shard bomb really changed?
Why did you release the new bombs while they were still plagued with bugs?
Are they really bugs or did you intentionally make the bombs finicky?
Why did you replace the old bombs with six new bombs? Why didn't you just add a new line?
Do you plan on buffing the new bombs?
Do you even realize that the new bombs are underpowered?
Why did you put stun, the most broken status, onto two of these underpowered bombs?
(Off topic) Why was the Deconstructor Line left out? It needed more attention than all the other bombs you changed.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:36

Shaarmallama

From the sounds of what nick

From the sounds of what nick has proposed. they're doing it to improve the RSS. While I like the RSS as is, I really am looking forwards to the new version of this bomb. Atleast the ISB is getting a huge buff - one of the several redundant bombs in the game.

Also they'll be bringing about more new bombs, which is another good thing.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:43

Little-Juances

Not being able to kill enemies with 1 blow is an improvement?

Yes, this change may make the bomb better against really big crowds, but at what cost?
There's no reason to do this instead of let RSS be and give this mechanic to a new bomb entirely.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:54

Softhead

I say leave RSS,

But make ISB have this change.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 11:59

Eltia

Pros and Cons

This bomb proposal has potential. But, has Nick considered implementing these changes into another bomb family and leave the shard bombs as is? (Read: people will buy more CE to craft either way.)

The thing is that shard bombs like RSS have been around so long it have become part of their style. Now when you push such a significant change at a late stage, it would be like asking some people to suddenly switch from right-handedness to left-handedness. It would be easier to push this kind of change if the change is an incremental improvement over the old version and it is backward compatible. From what I'm reading from the bomb proposal, this is not the case. I suspect it will cause another backslash when it is implemented.

And if Nick does insist to take away RSS, can you give us a new bomb that could one shot enemies that only skillful players could master please? Mastering RSS is one way to tell how good a bomber is. If you insist to take away this tool, we urge you to think of an alternative just in case your new version doesn't meet the reception that you anticipated.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 12:20

Poetry

I immediately thought of you

I immediately thought of you Oat, when i heard about the proposed change. We don't really know each other in-game, but we've played together and against each other in LD, and its always refreshing when i run into a non-skolver player that presents a challenge. The only lockdown players i ever seem to remember by name are the skilled, non-skolver players. Hopefully this change doesn't completely impair a good bomber like you during PvP, it would be a shame.

Personally, I definitely don't approve of completely altering an item's properties or mechanics mid-stride. Especially when players have committed their time, effort and in some cases, money, to acquiring said items, all while under the impression that they will perform as advertised.

But i suppose it's out of our hands. Hopefully, whatever the end result, things will work out for the best.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 12:39

Frocus

I'd have to try it out.

I like the idea of the new shards but the new version seems like a dreadfully long process(i.e. initial explosion, wait for travel time, then other explosion). I still think the shards themselves should do damage (maybe reduced) while adding this effect. But hopfully if this patch does go through we can expect a 5* version of these bombs,

Or as others have said, make another bomb to be the old RSS/ISB.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 12:47

Dukeplatypus

Dude, you don't even know

Dude, you don't even know what they're adding with the RSS change to round out the arsenal. You're just being rash and immature.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 13:35

Xylka-Mkii

Well, when I watch the beta

Well, when I watch the beta Tortodrone shard attack, then think of what nick said...

We dont know the size of the shards
We dont know how much damage the explosion plus each shard will do
We dont know how large the shard ring will be.

You gotta take into consideration other stuff too.

Anyways you're gonna get used to it, along with everyone else minus the recurring rager on CE and crap. We got usde to the SLs, AH, Missions (for the most part; Why is it so hard for this community to just accept change and move on? I'm fine with the 20 out of 1million raging people who take the time to complain instead of work, but I dont want another entire topic for people to freak out about.

I know it probably wont get that bad, but you never know. If it acts more like the Divine Avenger change (the reaction of the playerbase) did, then it should be bearable.

Though I think "high hopes for it" is all I can say, not being a bomber :/

EDIT:
"Or as others have said, make another bomb to be the old RSS/ISB."

I completely agree with this, but Nick said it was to make it fall in line with the rest of the bombs, so i doubt we'll see any more of the old RSS :( (take vids and pics while you can.)

Perhaps add on a similar feature to the DBB Snarby bomb instead? Mybe not as many bullets, but something like the Sentezza bullets with the same sort of effect?

Looking on the bright side however, These shards might be as spammable as Haze bombs and Nitronome, so it could make up for the loss of the bullet range?

Idk

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:17

Spaghetiman

Hopefully they put it on the test server before making it live, but I think it would be better to just make a 5* shard bomb then make this "cluster bomb" an new bomb of it's own. Just because the shard bombs are unique doesn't mean that's a bad thing. Who knows, the new one might actually be better. I have my doubts though.

~Spag

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:47

#10

Aquajag

RIP RSS

@Dukeplatypus
Dude, you don't even know what they're adding with the RSS change to round out the arsenal. You're just being rash and immature.

Yes, you're right. Given that we don't know exactly how the new bomb will turn out, we might be overreacting a bit.

But let us consider some alternatives. Rather than totally changing the play style of one of the favorite bombs, why not add that play style? Nick says that shard bombs do not serve the purpose they were originally intended to serve. OK, so they were a mistake. But a happy one! First, OOO gets so few happy mistakes, they really should take a win when they get one. Second, some great inventions in real life have come about through mistakes (Splenda was supposed to be rat poison, I hear). So, Shards don't fill the niche they wanted, OK! They fill something else! Now make the bomb to fill that area damage niche.

Another issue here: there are currently four mostly if not completely useless bombs in the game. This change will fix one, supposedly (ISB). That still leaves three that no one uses. The proposed bomb sounds very gremlin-like (someone in the first thread reacting to it even pointed that out). Well, hey, the Deconstructor looks very gremlin-like, and that bomb needs love, so why not do this to the deconstructor line?

And forgive us bombers if we don't get excited about "new" bombs. First, those bombs haven't been described at all. Second, we already have bombs we don't care for, that there is no sign of fixing. Third, you just told us you were going to kick our favorite pet puppy until it died of internal bleeding. And now, to make us happy, you say that someday in the future we may get some candy that we may or may not like, and that's supposed to make us forget the puppy you just kicked??

Sorry. I don't really think we're over-reacting at all. It's not that I don't think the new bomb will be cool. It sounds very cool! But no matter how cool it is, RSS won't do what it does now, and nothing is being offered to fill that niche.

And the suggestion "make another bomb to do RSS" is just dumb. Don't do that! Make another bomb to do the new thing! Changing the shards to clusters and then making a new shard is a really daft thing to do.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:16

#11

Dukeplatypus

I'd start complaining once we

I'd start complaining once we actually know the full scope the update. Hell, the devs themselves aren't even sure about the full extent of the additions yet, how they'll be balanced, how they'll be utilized, etc. I've what I think is a fraction of the additions (well, technicality they didn't have textures yet) and from what I saw, without giving spoilers, is that bombers will get some of the variety they've been clamoring for. I don't how it'll end up, and I don't think anyone does. It'll be a give and take, but odds are that it won't be changed in less than a month, so you have to enjoy the current RSS.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:37

#12

Fehzor

Signed!

I agree, this change is crap. I'm all for a new attack style- but make it a new item, or change an existing item that blows rather than one of the few items that is balanced in both the clockworks and lockdown. If this had been suggested in "suggestions", people would have laughed, because thats what it is, laughable.

Although I am fine with changing I(r)SB though- that needs it, although all it really needs is a faster charge and shadow damage, not a new attack pattern.

@"We don't know! It could be good!"

What we DO know:
-It will change RSS to deal an initial blast and then send out shards that stick to the ground and explode.
-RSS is a major weapon in lockdown, being one of the few items in lockdown capable of competing with the other few items used.
-There are bombs that need boosts, most notably the heavy deconstructor, which mirrors the attack style suggested almost perfectly when used by gremlins.
-If RSS is changed to the new style, it may weaken game balance rather than enhance it due to its already balanced state.
-There are several other weapons that mirror the attack style of another weapon type- like biohazard, polaris, dark retribution, and winmillion.
-The developers probably haven't programmed it yet. This is significant in that if we do petition, then we might keep our sun shards, whereas if we wait 3 months and then start protesting, the devs will be more likely to implement it just because they worked on it and it is done.
-In order to deal massive amounts of damage, a good deal of finesse is needed. I am able to fight slimes perfectly with it as if I am using my acheron, but I have seen many others fail to grasp the power of the sun shards- meaning that unless you are able to practice and become one with the shards, you aren't going to be game breaking. And the same can be said for most other weapons.
-The devs STILL haven't buffed the iron slug.

I think that we know enough to petition. Not that petitions do anything.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:31

#13

Luguiru

Shurr

Three Rings is putting bombers down for being versatile in their own way while sword and gun users have more variety in weapon mechanics to begin with. They could make a third Crystal line or a completely independent bomb series for the mechanic change, but to completely alter an existing item because of how 'unfitting' it is has little basis. We already have swords and guns which do not always behave as their respective weapon archetype, why are bombers being punished but not the others? Because they hate us. Metaphorical hate. If it were literal hate they would remove bombs entirely.

Is anyone on the test server able to upload a video of the different mechanic or are we waiting on the update?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:41

#14

Dukeplatypus

Is the test server even up

Is the test server even up with the new mechanics yet? If it is I can probably find the animation and get a semblance of the size.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:45

#15

Milkman

Mario!

1UP

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:29

#16

Oatmonster

Lick

@Xylka-Mkii, People were able to "easily" get used to those patches because they didn't replace anything. If shadow lairs replaced FSC and the AH replaced player to player trading, there would be a crapton more rage than there was, and players didn't even have to spend time to get to FSC/be able to trade.

@Dukeplatypus, No, the test server does not have this mechanic yet and I wanted to start this before they actually got committed to the new change. This was a "heads up" post similar to the topic he made about future changes to skelly and drake scale armors.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:09

#17

Tohru-Adachi

-_-

Isb keeeps this change.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:20

#18

Aureate

Processing Thoughts of You Always

@Oatmonster: smelly armor, lol

plusone

I made a Crystal Bomb for the sole purpose of upgrading to play with RSS mechanics. I then spent a not-inconsiderable amount ragecrafting for good UVs on the bomb... and now they're revamping it entirely.
/rageface

The Snarble Barb line launches a whole bunch of projectiles which can fly pretty far.
The Spur line launches projectiles, too.
The Brandish lines generates a line of explosions on its charge attack.
The Catalyser lines have charge attacks which explode upon being hit by a standard shot.
The bomb is something that takes some practise in order to rack up high damage. I fail to see why people shouldn't be rewarded for the time taken to gain that skill.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 10:58

#19

Michaelb

This'll make it impossible to land enemies on it and get >1,000 damage =_=

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 14:25

#20

Aquajag

RIP RSS

Thank you Michaelb for pointing out the obvious. Nick basically said that was the whole point of the change.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:16

#21

Misty-Wellington

I actually prefer the idea of

I actually prefer the idea of a Clusterbomb to an AoE Spikeshardshower. I've questioned why we didn't have anything like a Clusterbomb for a while now.

Anyone who says they hate the concept of a Clusterbomb without giving the update a chance is just scared of change, and I'm well acquainted with players who are scared of change: I've frequented the RuneScape forums.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:10

#22

Rockernerd

Change!

Personally, I'm glad for the change. I can't wait to see what the new bombs will be able to do. Yes, LD bombers can cry all they want over losing the ability to spam with crystal bombs, but my prediction is that the new bomb, with the spread and explosive bits, will be even more powerful and potent if used correctly. Seriously, how does hitting everyone on a capture point with not just a shard, but with multiple EXPLOSIVE shards sound? I'm in. Sooooooooooo in.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:31

#23

Oatmonster

Lick

@Aureate, lol changing that. Stupid auto correct.

@Zenihd-Rot, I have nothing against cluster bombs, I just really don't think it's a good idea to shove cluster bomb mechanics onto the crystal bomb line.

@Rockernerd, Have you ever tried to hit people on the point with a Nitronome? It has a big ass explosion (bigger than the point) and yet 80% of the time, everybody moves their buts off the point in time. If the proposed change were to go through, people would simply have to dodge the first small explosion, and then they wouldn't have to worry about the non damaging shards because there would be another fuse time they could leisurely wait through.

@Aquajag, The RSS isn't dead yet. I find your lack of faith disturbing.

And for all those people saying this will fix RSS "spamming", I have two things to say to you. First, I can guarantee that when you compare the number of times a bomber presses attack in a game and the number of times a swordie or gunner presses attack in a game, the bomber will always have pressed attack less. Second, if this patch goes through, for each shard bomber in a game, there would be approximately 6-8 times as many explosions because of the new bomb mechanics (compared to blast bomb users).

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 15:47

#24

Akvar

I am most concerned about

I am most concerned about losing our only ranged attack and losing one of the only non team disruptive dps bombs. I could be wrong but I find it hard to imagine a cluster bomb not being disruptive in a team.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 16:01

#25

Juances

Whoever thinks multi hitting enemies with various shards was OP....

Yes, it can deal crazy damage, yet a well placed FoV/Calibur/Blitz charge can do even more.

That was a cheap excuse honestly.

If it still was a problem, there are still tons of ways to balance it without any fancy change. Slower walking, ctr decrease, damage nerf, etc.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 16:44

#26

Luguiru

Yurp

They could have added one second to Radiant Sun line charge to balance against Blitz and spin-charge swords which already deal significant damage. They nerfed its damage already yet it still has significant damage, even though Blitz in comparison has very similar rates to time to target; if shard bombs are overpowered, Blitz is overpowered. Fang of Vog is supposed to be slightly overpowered because of how "difficult" it is to obtain and Leviathan line is the easiest sword to get to 5* since the mission update; they literally give you the recipes for free.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 16:57

#27

Aquajag

Long Live RSS!

@Oatmonster: Is that better? ;)

@Zenihd-Rol: Thank you for not really reading what we're saying! That's always encouraging.

I have noticed that most bombers, including myself, are not afraid of the new bombs. We are not saying that is a bad idea. In fact, it sounds good, as you have pointed out. We are simply wondering why it would be so terrible to add that new concept, rather than replacing an old and wonderful concept. We could, in theory, have to great bombs: The current Shards, and The New Cluster. I don't think any bomber would be complaining about that. We also wouldn't be complaining if they took either the Deconstructor, the Irontech, or the Big Angry Bomb, all of which see no use and love, and made them do the cluster thing.

@Rockernerd: I'm thinking you didn't read Nick's post closely? It says the "shards" will pass through players. The whole point is to hit a variety of targets, at range. So it seems unlikely that it would be possible to hit a capture point with many of the shards. He also said they will adjust the damage, which probably means bringing it more in line with the other bombs, which also makes it less impressive. So, I appreciate that you are trying to boost our spirits, but it's hard to believe that your suggestion will really be how things turn out.

@Akvar: +1. I have those concerns as well.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:04

#28

Elemetal

I just got wind of this and

I just got wind of this and all i can say is after thinking some and reading what other, like minded players have said, i also believe that it'd be better to leave RSS as it is and either have ISB as the new cluster style bomb or just come out with a cluster line bomb. I personally find RSS a very useful bomb, without it when soloing as pure bomber or bomber/swordsman it is extremely useful for taking out gun puppies from a safe distance or, if able to kite as i am, when using in FSC etc. it is highly useful as a pure damage bomb.

+1 to the post as i think Shard bombs, with maybe the exception of ISB should remain as they are.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:14

#29

Misty-Wellington

...

@Aqua - Oh trust me I read what you're saying and understood perfectly. Obviously the statement "Anybody who hates the new concept" was clearly not aimed at you because you don't hate the concept. Call it an "Insurance policy" against those who instantly reject the idea because it's new. Force of habit, been around the RuneScape forums too long.

Fair enough that people want to keep the RSS bomb as it is, but you can see where Nick's coming from with the "It's not bomb-like" point of view.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:16

#30

Demonicsothe

"you can see" Many people's

"you can see"

Many people's problem is that there are guns that are not necessarily gun-like. Or swords not sword-like. Which is why many people are arguing that this is a bad reason to change rss, instead of implementing a new bomb which could take the pure elemental spot of a bomber's loadout with this mechanic.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:17

#31

Alynn

Moo~~

A petition about sunshards before knowing how they really are after the changes? Just plain stupid.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 17:29

#32

Luguiru

Hurr

The main issue is that they are changing it to begin with when they could make a completely different weapon have the new mechanic instead of changing what we already have.

Pay attention. Admission is not free.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 18:07

#33

Dancinjen

+1 to petition

I'm excited for new bombs. I'm not excited that they are going to use the crystal bombs as a way to introduce the new bombs. It doesn't make sense to me to use the excuse of "this doesn't fall in line with what we wanted" to change the bomb. If you're going to do that for the RSS then change polaris. Change all the swords that project bullets.

As oat has said up there you seen in lockdown where the fuse time is easy to dodge. Now what would make this worth it is if the first cluster bombs didn't have a fuse time. That as soon as you charge and lay they go off and then the middle of it would be like half a second later or something. they need to make it where it is maybe real short and not so easy to dodge to make this bomb worth using.

I get that they aren't just thinking about lockdown here that they are thinking about how well it can work in the clockworks, as that is the main point of this game not lockdown. That's fine, but you still have to make that bomb worth using. I'm tired of having only a few bombs in my arsenal worth using,and I have all the bombs in the game.

I would like to not see the RSS line changed and these bombs be completely new and their own.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 18:28

#34

Canozo

Like Nick said, they are making bombs = explosions and guns = bullets/proyectiles .
Also, 5*.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 19:08

#35

Tuhui

@Canozo how do you explain biohazard?

How i see most bombs in a party right now is i'm gonna support you, or i'm gonna do my own stuff i don't care for you. RSS is one of the only bombs that even gives a chance for a bomber to be on par with a swordie or a gunner without throwning off the party. It is also the only range they have, they have bombs with a big radius but nothing that will reach those far off enemies, and for bomb only players they need it. Why do they have to get rid of something that works well to fit an outline that other things break?

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 19:24

#36

Fehzor

@Canozo Could you please say something regarding the fact that there are many other items that do not fit their category; (e.g. Polaris, Biohzard, winmillion)???

I feel its wrong to reference Nick making a point that has been refuted several times over without putting in additional commentary or thought.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 20:42

#37

Rm-Anami

Plus One

All this discussion... Tl,dr
So I'll just express my opinion.
The current shard system works just fine. The reason presented by Nick is not... um, reasonable, since you cannot say that it must have a blast because it's a bomb. All the arguments presented are valid. It is these exceptions, these slips to their categories, that make the gameplay with different weapons diverse and fun.
Even if it is possible to spam this bomb and get high damages on LD, it takes skill to use the RSS to its full potential. And even though we might not know how it will end up being, it simply is not viable to make such drastic changes to a weapon that has been around for so long and has so many skilled users that will be forced to change playing stile. Either these changes must be gradual or parallel, in another recipe line or a whole new bomb.
Come to think, I do not understand why changing a usefull and popular weapon when there are so many others with few to no usefulness in the game, both in PvE and PvP. Alright, the update will fix the ISB, some may say. Wrong. It was stated that it will change,and probably for best, but only for ISB. RSS will be just spoiled. And really, is it worth throwing away, I might say, the best of all bombs in order to fix another one?
Someone stated on other thread that the Heavy Decon should become the cluster bomb since it has a very similar look to those Gremlin Demos have. It is a good idea. In my opinion, there are bombs that have much more serious need of revamping, and the Deconstructor line is one. And lets be honest. What was proposed is a big shard that explodes, throw little shards around that blow up after some time damaging people around with tiny frags. This goes against the own description of the Crystal Bomb : "A strange formation of crystals that seems to have grown around a small bomb". Now tell me. How in the bloody hell is a "strange formation of crystals" supposed to spread around and suddenly EXPLODE? I really would like to see a cluster bomb, but trying to fit this concept in a weapon that already has its own is just plain dumb.
So, simply keep RSS as it is, create a cluster bomb, revamp ISB and other Blast bombs
If I repeated something that was already said, sorry xP

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 21:07

#38

Luguiru

Dat box

You are a box.

There is no sense crying
over every giant post.
We just keep on trying
to understand it the most.
And the reading gets done
and you realize the change is dumb
for the people who already have the bomb.

Yes, they should make Deconstructor line have the change. It would instantly become more popular and more viable without substantially affecting those who have it, since it would be an upgrade. A 5* for Deconstructor line would also be pleasant.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 23:35

#39

Oatmonster

Lick

@Alynn, True, we don't know the specifics of the change but we've been told enough to know that the new cluster bomb mechanics would be nothing like current shards and we would be better off if the mechanics were applied to a different or new bomb. The reason i made this petition before the actual change is because chances are high OOO hasn't actually started programming it yet and if they see the negative effects of the change, they might change their minds.

@Luguiru, And believe me the shards are alive! They're fantastic and are still alive, And my gosh Nick I will e-punch you in the face if they're not still alive.

(sorry if that last one was hard to sing)

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 01:43

#40

Aquajag

Long Live RSS!

I like your verse Luguiru. Sums up the thing well. =)

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 01:51

#41

Zeddy

Hurp

The "it's not bomb-like" argument is flawed to begin with because the shard bombs were the most bomb-like bombs in the game. Try looking up how a fragmentation grenade works sometime. You know, the standard anti-personnel explosive.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 02:16

#42

Tuhui

@zeddy it's bombs are

@zeddy it's bombs are explody.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 03:55

#43

Psychorazer

Why not we actually wait to see what the changes are actually like FIRST before demanding it changed back? It may actually be better, or just take a little getting used to.

Or it could suck for old RSS holders and you could all rampage on the forums about it...

But really, why not see how it is first? Postpone your judgments until you've actually seen how bad the change is. I can tell bombers will miss the range the current Shard bomb gives, but maybe this one will give a higher damage output and a still fairly big range? I dunno, I'm not a bomber.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 04:04

#44

Tuhui

Alot of what's going on in

Alot of what's going on in this thread is why they have to change a bomb that works well when they could just make a new one? RSS is the only range that bombers get and no matter what they add it will not make up for range and an overall great bomb.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 05:03

#45

Zeddy

@Psycho-Valkyrie

This isn't a "change". Just because they're calling it that doesn't mean it is one. They're removing our weapon and giving us another one. A "change" is if the RSS was made pure piercing or the ISB's piercing was changed to shadow or they modified the shock chance or any other number of actual changes.

This is a completely new weapon and that's what we're petitioning for. We want this new cluster bomb, but we also want RSS. Last time I checked Spiral Knights does not have a limited amount of space to put weapons in and there should be no reason these bombs can't coexist.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 05:14

#46

Tersakaff

But you'll never see it happen cause we're not allowed to one shot deadnaughts

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 05:25

#47

Zeddy

Yes

Unless it's with a Divine Avenger charge or a Blitz Needle, then it's okay.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 05:36

#48

Ganokgu

Didn't they say RSS was gonna

Didn't they say RSS was gonna bump up to 5* now?

I particularly liked rss being a much cheaper to manufacture weapon. Especially when starting a volcanic demo set and 4 bombs from scratch...I've got all that stuff fully heated now so having to upgrade again isn't too bad, just slightly annoying.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 06:33

#49

Zeddy

Bring Your Own Bawling

Let me try to put this into perspective for non-bombers:

You, with the cowboy hats! Do you like guns? Which gun do you like best? Blitz Needle? Sure, let's say it's Blitz Needle. Imagine for a second that OOO says they'll add a shotgun. It has some knockback, you can move around a bit while firing it. Great for crowd control, not bad damage. This weapon sounds pretty cool! But! But! They're changing Blitz Needle and all autogun lines into these shotguns. Isn't that great? Stop complaining, the shotgun sounds great! Don't mock it until you've tried it. Oh, your instakill on Trojans is gone now, you say? That was your highest-damaging, longest-reaching gun, you say? Yes it was hard to use but so fun once you had the technique down, you say?

Welcome to the party. (If you don't like Blitz pretend I said alchemer or Polaris or Catalyzer or whatever your favourite gun is. Keyword: favourite. This is the most fun weapon for you, not just because it's effective but because of how fun it is to use.)

You! With the skolver coat! Yes you! Do you want dual-wielding? Well damn skippy you've got it! Here, two daggers, one in each hand. It's swift as a fox and you can do some good damage with it! But we're replacing Flourish/Sealed Sword/Brandish for no real reason.

Welcome to the party.

The new cluster bomb will probably be my second favourite weapon! It sounds really fun, actually! It'll be a welcome addition to the bomber's arsenal.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 07:42

#50

Aumir

@Zeddy

I am a fan of yours now. Please enjoy my clapping. *Claps*

+1 to this thread. We want new bombs, but we don't want our Crystal Bombs taken away. These new bombs should be the Deconstructor line, it suits well with the mechanics that Nick explained, not to mention a chance to have a elemental bomb... and then we would have different attribute bombs with different mechanics (piercing > area with no knockback, elemental > multi explosion in ring, shadow > rings, without counting the vortex bombs)

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