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Outnumbered (RP) Discussion Thread

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Sun, 01/04/2015 - 21:50
#351
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
@Keepscaite

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The posts don't feel like they're being guided toward the story's goal. This is actually one of the more fundamental roles of a forum game host - to tie everyone's individual posts into the greater plot. Correcting the problem is theoretically simple: reel everything back into to story!

If this were a fanfiction, the writer would be responsible for everything - the beginning, middle, and end. The main advantage of telling stories in RP format is that you can outsource much of that writing to other writers, with the disadvantage that you lose some control over the story. To solve the problem, then, it's important that all the involved writers, especially the game host, keep in mind the greater plot when forming their story posts.

I also have some tips specific to the game host/master, Sawhero. As GM, there are several effective ways to direct the story. Ideally, you would be able to set up the world perfectly and all the players would know exactly what to do at any given moment. In practice, it rarely occurs, but I have seen it happen on some occasions. If you can pull it off, that's the best way to direct the story.

Alternatively, you could lead players by the hand and always be there to tell them what they can and cannot do. While this is a useful format for open-world games, it's very GM-intensive and requires constant attention on your part. I personally can't handle that very well, but other GMs can pull it off.

The method I prefer is to create a strong central character around whom the plot revolves and make that my main character. In that way, I can both participate in my own game and direct the story at will simultaneously. The downside is that if the game master ever god-mods, power-plays, or otherwise abuses his character's power, the game will crumble. It's vital that the game master be fair with his character if he wants to keep things flowing smoothly.

However, it's equally important that the game master's central character not be too underpowered. If your central character is too weak to drive the plot, then you can't drive the plot, and the storylines splinter. That's what we're observing in Outnumbered: the game master's central character is too weak to drive the plot. It may sound strange to say, but Sawhero needs to make a character that's critical to the plot if he intends to use this plot-driving method.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 22:13
#352
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Then again, what really was the goal?

I hadn't seen much of one when I joined in, aside from surviving in the Clockworks in a world where the Swarm had taken over. The very first post in the RP has stuff like:

The Apocrea have become deities. A whole cult has begun following them, turning against the Spiral Order. The Swarm has overrun Haven, and countless knights are now infected. All survivors have fled to the Clockworks, with no sembelance of order. It is now your job to survive.

No Apocrea, no knights following the Apocrea (at least not many of them, I should say). Basically there is a situation at Haven, with Creos and the invitations, and right now my arc is basically prelude to going to Haven and trying to reclaim it I suppose. And then that leaves:

All survivors have fled to the Clockworks, with no sembelance of order. It is now your job to survive.

Which is what everyone was pretty much doing.

So what else really should be happening? At least according to the listed goals.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 22:28
#353
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
@Ares-Hsg

The most obvious goal would be to bring down the Apocreans, push back the Swarm, and revive the Spiral Order. But that's precisely what's not happening. The newest story posts don't even seem to be related to those goals.

Unless, of course, you don't want a story. If you just want a virtual world, then Sawhero needs to step up to bat and put more effort into creating and maintaining his world. But if it is a story you want, then yeah, the GM has his work cut out for him if he wants to keep it from dying, IMO.

On a side note, you now know why there are so many unfinished RPs in the world: GMing is hard! :'(

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 22:55
#354
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
You can't.

It's a fatal cancer of threads. There is no cure.

Technically, if we put a huge amount of effort into it... We could just live with it, and continue posting in self-contained spheres, only involving ourselves with that's important to us.

Unfortunately, that'd make this just be a bunch of different RP's, because any involvement with each other would require a LOT of indexing in order to find necessary inter-plot info.

In other words, it's too much work, so the thread's dying for certain people. I suppose... That could include me.

It's also just as Thin said, the plots are all over the place, because the initiation characters (Nyroc and Coryn) are either dead or don't have much going on in the way of storyline-leading at this point. Especially for certain groups, in which they aren't involved at all. And so, this has become a Sandbox with certain elements of backstory to it.
Whether the backstory-elements grow or not is anyone's guess.... It's quite possible that the ones developing the backstory may just up and leave, after all.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 22:53
#355
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Basically it's like I said

My arc currently has Ares, Lyn and Scorpio, and basically Lyn just suggested forming a team to go to Haven. I'm assuming it's to reclaim it, because, well why else would you go to Haven? Then there's the meeting of antagonists that's supposed to happen in Haven, not sure if that counts though. It is true though, what's happening now is basically filler. Other than that, there was never really anything mentioning Haven, even early in the RP. Sure you could assume that Coryn and Nyroc were building a team to go to Haven, but it never really materialized.

I suppose if Haven was reclaimed then the Spiral Order would be revived.

The Apocreans have barely showed up, and unless everyone posting now are going to shift and create Apocreans or Apocrean-related characters, then they're going to be forgotten about, imo. I could see the Apocreans coming in after defeating The Swarm, but idk.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:01
#356
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
I suppose it boils down to...

The Antagonists aren't clearly described, and their objective isn't very clear. In other words, we're not sure if we have to do anything in order to prevent bad things from happening, and so we have nothing clear we should be heading towards to gain any progress in... Well... Surviving. Or whatever we were going to do.

See that? It was so unclear I can't even describe it.

Multiple arcs spread because of the hazy-objectives, and people ended up all over the place for different reasons, some reasons aren't even clear for the people guiding the arcs.

Unclear objective = unclear arcs = a whole bunch of work for people wanting to participate in the RP...

Like I said, we could just live in multiple arcs, but that would, in the end, just be a collection of RP's happening in the same thread. That's not technically a bad idea -- to have multiple RP's going on in the same world -- but it's a bit messy, and requires a lot of work for people wanting to involve their characters in other people's arcs.

And if people didn't want any involvement with other people's arcs... It would have just been better to make a new RP for a new Arc with a similar world.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 23:14
#357
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
True..

I have been trying to do something about that.. But my style is drawn out, which is evident in the fact that my protagonist has done basically nothing except tour the Clockworks and make a base.
My Swarm character is moving a little faster I suppose, and I had planned to have him bring the fight to the Knights in the Clockworks either before or after the meeting with the other Antagonists.

I was thinking of forcing the Antagonist issue myself, especially with the Apocrea. But really there are several antagonists now, but they're all in development stages (except yours, who's pretty much frozen, no pun intended) and I guess that's a problem. I guess if it happens fast enough, then there will be an aim for those in the Clockworks and all those arcs will have a singular focus?

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 01:13
#358
Colray's picture
Colray
planning to siege Haven?

Hi again, sorta been reading this...but if you're planning to attack haven, I could send some opposition your way.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 05:53
#359
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Hey

I'm pretty sure that's what we're gonna do, not sure what direction the others are gonna take it yet, but once/if we do then definitely send some.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 07:54
#360
Colray's picture
Colray
Cool

I've had Syber and Beck kinda just sitting here, I might start using Syber alone.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 08:56
#361
Sawhero's picture
Sawhero
Just popping in...

Hey, everyone. I am sad to say, I have kinda given up on this RP. So I guess, here's my official farewell to this thread.

First of all, to all participants, thank you. Those of you who helped me start this, who endured the initial confusion, special thanks to you.
This was my first RP, and was an experiment. It's gone much farther than I ever dreamed it would. Eventually, it escaped my control, and grew into something entirely its own.
As I write this, I can feel my eyes watering. I know this RP, and those who joined me in it, will always have a place in my heart.
I fully intend to remain around the forums, especially with Dark Cradle Falling now operational. I hope to see you all around.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 13:12
#362
Saucce's picture
Saucce
Snake is trying to maintain

Snake is trying to maintain the story. He's gonna recruit the other villains to eradicate the spiral order w/ help from da swarm

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 16:52
#363
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Goodbyes?

@Sawhero- Well bye I guess, for Outnumbered at least.. i'm glad to have been a part of your first project though. See you around man.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 16:54
#364
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
@Colray

No prob man, and would you do it as affiliated with Snakey's character, or for Syber's own vendetta?

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 16:59
#365
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
I have an idea.

Since this is Sawhero's first roleplaying experience, how about we make it his best one? Let's try to finish it.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 17:06
#366
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Of course

I'm all for it.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 17:09
#367
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
Lez do it peoples! If we do

Lez do it peoples! If we do what Thinslayer is suggesting or course. And are we doing the guild thing?

I was trying to get all the villains to unite and fight for control of Haven. I was also planning that the remaining knights (which became very few people) made a plan and started their way toward Haven and prepare a plan of action to slay the villains. I think that any1 else who wants 2 continue should try to meet up with this group.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 17:11
#368
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
I...

I started typing before Ares posted

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 17:19
#369
Saucce's picture
Saucce
Soundz good

Soundz good

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 17:33
#370
Colray's picture
Colray
this thread.. blink once and there are 7 new posts

Syber as of now is on his own, but I could have him be enlisted again to lead a small group of apocrean acolytes. And then have them meet up with @Snakey-One. Then we have some perishable enemies, not cannon fodder of course, but characters that can die.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 17:44
#371
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Please..

All these antagonists can die.

@Snakey: Lol I got that ninja speed (thank training). By the way, exactly what are Creos's capabilities now? And since you're the one in Haven, do you mind giving me an insight on what it's like now? I doesn't seem like it's still Swarm overrun.

@Colray- Yay Syber and Apocreans! Sorry I just really didn't want to manage another antagonist. My other two arcs have gone slowly enough.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 19:03
#372
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
May I?

Anyone mind if I take over as co-GM of the game?

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 19:54
#373
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Why not?

I've got no problem with it.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 20:14
#374
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
Replies

@Ares-Hsg Creos is still basically the same except for the fact he now has a few possible allies, but I would need to know from Keepscaite. Sadly, I don't know where to post to find him, so yeah. The situation in Haven is that the Swarm are starting to grow bolder in their attacks and are now starting to try to take over Haven

@Colray I think that would be great idea. I'll get right on it.

Mon, 01/05/2015 - 21:57
#375
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Time to move.

Okay. My first act as new GM is to reset the splintering plotlines with a 1-day timeskip and teleportation to a common area. Are there any story threads you want to preserve in the process?

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 03:23
#376
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
WELL

Seeing as Lyn, Scorpio and Ares were planning to go to Haven, I suppose I can quick fix that. Armerio's army is created, so I don't think there are many loose ends. Let's just say Lyn upgraded her stuff then I guess?

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 08:08
#377
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
IF we do a one day timeskip,

IF we do a one day timeskip, than creos would have the meeting

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 15:02
#378
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
PS: I'm still here.

@Thin
If all characters have been moved to Haven... How did they all get there? The Hunter group was (presumably) heading closer to the core, or something like that, and Strom was in pursuit of knights. No idea why either of those parties would suddenly move to the Surface...
Are the ones involved supposed to provide an explination as to why their characters would go there? Or will you be doing that?

Or did all the character just suddenly appear due to powers unknown?

Elaboration needed.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 15:09
#379
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
@Ember-Break

No explanation is really needed if you'd rather not bother with one, but if you really want one, you can make one up for yourself. If you want to attribute it to powers unknown, feel free.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 15:17
#380
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Idea!

Wait wait wait, I have an idea.

Okay. Everyone suddenly fell unconscious. Whatever it is they were doing, they stopped doing it and fainted. When they awoke, they found themselves in a shelter back on Haven.

Someone brought them there.

How does that sound?

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 15:23
#381
Saucce's picture
Saucce
swag. but some stuff would

swag. but some stuff would have to happen

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 19:19
#382
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Meh...

(Just got home.. long @$$ school trip, my back hurts...meh)

Look, right now battle for Haven is where it's at, right? So:

Protagonists- At a depth near to the surface setting up camp, I can start the transition into that if you want.

Antagonists- Colray's group? At the outskirts of Haven getting ready to engage the group coming up (because that is still happening, right?)
The ones who are supposed to be in the meeting will be in the meeting. Simple.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 19:45
#383
Colray's picture
Colray
almost

Protagonists: in a bunker in Haven. Teleported by Gwen .

Antagonists: Creos's meeting? Idk of the whereabouts of the Silken Queen, Vargas, and Creos.

Syber is meeting his Acolyte squad and is ready to relocate at an order.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 19:49
#384
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
I didn't realize

That it had already started, but it transitioned nicely so i'm good. And Syber, Strom and Armerio are probably more than enough for now.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 21:55
#385
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
So, uh. Combat while people're unconscious?

The whole progression is going down too quickly. I'm here with time on my hands to watch and react for it to play out, but not all RP'rs involved will have the same free time. Plus, characters just woke up "feeling tired and groggy as if they had just fallen asleep after a day's hard exercise." (#515) -- how would they be able to jump right into combat right now?

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 21:57
#386
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
@Ember-Break

Like I said, the Core won't wait and stop eating people until we're ready. Haste is of utmost importance.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 22:36
#387
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
Well... I have to sleep.

I'll check on the thread in the morning, but if combat goes on while I sleep, Pippin will stay close to Gwen and fend off Apocreans using her modified Great Cleaver. Should enemies manage to get too close and/or block off the momentum Pippin will be using with wide sweeps, she'll plunge the cleaver into the ground and use the Grip Mods on her hands and feet to grapple and throw opponents who get too close.

Other things that can be used (such as her Red Sabers) may be found in her original depiction here.

Tue, 01/06/2015 - 22:49
#388
Colray's picture
Colray
So many rp's!!!

I'll be sleeping soon, if combat starts while I am away, then Luke will stay under cover and take potshots, he's more accurate at close range.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 15:52
#389
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
@Flame-Shinobi regarding post #545

There are no gremlins here.
You're in Haven, being attacked by Apocreans. Also, the shelter was underground with a ladder leading up to the surface.

Those details can probably be edited over with only a couple of seconds, but as for slashing at the Apocreans... Well... Presumably the Apocreans are approaching, but aren't within sword-reach yet (presumably because it's possible that they're right there -- it's just that their distance from the shelter wasn't exactly given to begin with).

@Saucce
Same comment as above. Unless Scorpio dived into the Apocreans, which would be fine.

Tactics in fighting the Apocreans will change depending on their distance... So if we can reach a consensus on how far they are, that'd be great.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 17:46
#390
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
How far...

Far enough that they can snipe you but close enough that you can have melee combat with them.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 18:26
#391
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
The Apocreans

So yea I think the leading Apocreans are close enough for melee combat.. But people:

Syber and the Apocreans are not cannon fodder. So we should probably have some damage rules or smthn for killing them. I like a randomizer, but that's just me.

@Flame-Shinobi- the Apocreans aren't Swarm creatures, so how did Swarmbane kill them just like that? Doesn't he refuse to kill anything not Swarm?

@Thinslayer- how many posts till that portal is made?

@Snakey-One- Where is Creos currently? In case he still wants to meet Armerio that is.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 18:50
#392
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
@Ares-Hsg

The portal will finish in about two rounds. In other words, everyone has to take their turn about twice.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:14
#393
Ember-Break's picture
Ember-Break
So, if we're going to use randomizers...

Is the one in control of the Apocreans (presumably Snakey-One and/or Colray -- GM can do this too) going to roll for whether they get hit or not? Or is it attackers roll for attacks?

Personally, I prefer a neutral party to roll for defends, because then neither side can just modify their own rolls to avoid/give damage.

ex.
Pippin aims a kick at a Lumbar's shin.
3rd party (if the enemy is neutral, this is usually the GM) rolls for how well the attack went.
3rd party either tells the roll, or writes a short bit about how the attack panned out. It's either the 1st, or the 1st & 2nd, but that's up to the 3rd party's discretion. The best would be just the 1st, because then the RP'r has full control over their character's reactions. Creators know their characters best, right?

Whatever the mechanics for the fight, we'll have to reach a settlement about them before doing anything.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:25
#394
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Oops.

I figured just do my own because, and yea, take my word for it, I don't modify rolls. It is an RP after all, I enjoyed it before I had a character in.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:32
#395
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
Creos...

@Ares-Hsg Creos is staying far back as a last resort.

@Ember-Break I think that players should get numbers for their attacks

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:34
#396
Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Wut?

Numbers?

Oh heck no. I despise numbers in an RP. Get them away from me. Please, please prioritize making fun, engaging fight scenes without resorting to those horrid things.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:36
#397
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
How about a set damage value?

Like with that one Apocrean I put at 250. It makes the players have to get a couple hits in, imo, and the Apocreans are given the opportunity to react. Should I raise it? It took me about four hits of about seven tries I believe to kill the one Apocrean, using 60 as my hit value.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:38
#398
Ares-Hsg's picture
Ares-Hsg
Hm..

I'll try, seems a little unfair to me though.

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:47
#399
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
Creos...

@Ares-Hsg Creos is staying far back as a last resort.

@Ember-Break I think that players should get numbers for their attacks

Wed, 01/07/2015 - 19:48
#400
Snakey-One's picture
Snakey-One
Woops

Posted twice again.

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