I must keep reminding everyone that makes this comment: "all you needed was 800CE"...
That 800CE had a lot more value than it does today. 5kCE made you rich back then, 50kE makes you rich nowadays.
Radiants and why they NEED to be fixed.
Sat, 01/10/2015 - 11:39
#152
↓
Sat, 01/10/2015 - 11:44
#153
really?
then why was CE priced at 6-9kcr back then?
besides, you could still earn money even with mist. a day could earn you 20k if you do things well, more if you used purchased energy to go on.
I made my 5* gear back then, I should know. I also made my 5* gear mainly in T1 and T2, because I was a dumb noob who couldnt kill a T3 slag if it had a broken leg. at least my first couple items, later I got better.
Sat, 01/10/2015 - 14:02
#154
What he said^
Peoples standards for "being rich" going up doesn't change the value of money relative to purchasable items. It just means classes are more polarized, if anything.
Sat, 01/10/2015 - 14:10
#155
"That 800CE had a lot more value than it does today. 5kCE made you rich back then, 50kE makes you rich nowadays."
Now you mention it, I think that's correct. Before, I had to choose between keep playing (the same mission over and over), or saving the CE to craft.
The (C)E lost a big part of its value due to the free elevators and Orb drops. No one needs (C)E to play the levels, and no one wants to use it to craft anymore, so it became pretty useless.
Mon, 01/12/2015 - 20:41
#156
my 2 cents
I think OOO (and most players, myself included) forget that there ARE fire crystal recipe to downgrade them, but not to upgrade them
The simplest, easiest fix that has been pointed out with hollywoods billboard lights show didn't help OOO one bit... Most people would be enjoying themsleves if rads had fewer drops but were craftable with shinning and cr...
It has been pointed too many times to count it... It's just wayyyy too much and had too much version (including my version, fehzor, zeddy, hexzyle, etc. we all had one)
Mon, 01/12/2015 - 22:11
#157
You could make your CE back
You could make your CE back if you spent it playing FSC. If anything, it's not that the value of CE has gone down, but moreso that the value of crowns have dropped now that you don't need to buy 100 CE to make them.
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 04:39
#158
Never gonna let this thread
Never gonna let this thread die.
It's been 1 year and 3 months since the radiant drought started. (October 2013)
I've got 30+ 5* gears since then to play and experiment with, and probably more if I cared enough to craft that high and heat them.
Don't even joke about spending 700E on SD radiants; the 7 plus hours of FSC grinding you would need to get up one or half a level for just 1 count it ONE piece of gear is mind numbingly tasking.
GM's don't have to heat up their gear, and they are too busy running around everywhere to notice maybe.
Dev's don't know because when do they have time to play their own game?
I'm tired of this superficial waiting game.
Radiants need to be in the entirety of stratum 6, not 2/3's* (maybe [looking at you 0 radiant runs]) of it.
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 07:17
#159
Well now I have to because you're kind of right and it's actually a pretty funny joke-
Geeze Paintool, it's just 189,000 energy to heat your gear. Is it really so much to ask you to pay a measly ~420 dollars on a game that you enjoy? You probably pay that much for lunch every day over the course of about a quarter of a year. If you stopped eating lunch for those months you'd have those weapons fully heated in no time.
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 07:28
#160
Hah hah.~
I could buy a
Hah hah.~
I could buy a Darkfang Shield with that sort of money.
Or like 4 Mixmasters at 45KE each...
Maybe you could even buy out an account with a Groundbreaker Set if you're that desperate?
Even if Dev's don't play their game to notice, I wonder if they keep track SD sales and records?
If so, Sega or something probably justifies the price because post 2013 radiant drought noobs ACTUALLY spend money on radiants like never before. Maybe I'm actually too old school wanting to heat my gear up for free; maybe I wish my Heat Amplifiers still worked to bypass crystal heating.
All I know is this: my Aegis, Ironmight, and Omega Shell (all my other shields) will never see level 10... and that saddens me.
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 08:30
#161
oh paintool...
why did you even make that much 5* gear if you know you cant heat it?
a small point to the value of CE (or cr). it didnt deprecate so much that 800CE then is worth 6.3kCE now (energy needed to heat one weapon by buying rads). I do get that the values have changed over the year, but we still have CE sinks (pods, reset stars, orbs, unbinding, more supply depot stuff) and they still consume a lot of CE.
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 10:01
#162
I have all this gear because
I have all this gear because I was tired of same sword spamming and um, you know, maybe because I wanted to try playing the game differently?
Bombing in particular in Spiral Knights is a lost art, and 5* special bombs get hit the hardest with the lack of radiants where you absolutely need to have level 10's for max CTR to even perform.
My Big Angry Bombs, Irontech Destroyer, and Obsidian Crusher would greatly appreciate it.
If you've never used new Scintillating Sun Shards in a wolver den or Bombed a decon zone, you're missing out.
Haze bombs are also slow chargers by themselves; a shivermist buster would be a great utility bomb for new players.
Dark Retribution only OCH runs: 2 pro 4 SK
And the rest of the shard bombs nobody's ever heard of have a place in the hall of infamy; I wanted to experiment.
It's easy for swordies and gunnies because all you have to do is click and kill.
And if we're going by your math for 6.3KE to heat one item, a new age radiant-drought player would need to spend 31.5KE to heat their required first 5* set alone, which includes helm and armor, a shield, and we'll say brandish and blitz needle for final FSC ENDGAME PURGATORY.
31,000 energy.
Read it.^
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 10:33
#163
"Why did you make gear in a
"Why did you make gear in a game where the main player-retaining objective is making gear?"
I recall some seeing some former say "mental illness is not a joke."
I'm pretty tempted to use that line here.
Well no actually, I understand that the reason why you're questioning paintool's decision to make 5*'s is just because you know the system be whack, but things like chaos for example are 5* exclusive. Of course people are going to make new gear even though it's a downgrade, it's just because they want variety. Plus from a collecting perspective, when you get the item, you're "there"; you just have to wait a long while, so instead of keeping the oddly strong 4*'s people make 5*'s so they can complain, which sounds odd but at the same time reasonable given how complaint-worthy the forge is right now.
Tue, 01/13/2015 - 12:43
#164
....
Not all 5 stars are total losses.
You have bombs with larger radius (except irontech), Brandishes with more explosions, Added status (with Obsidian items), better charge (DA, tortofists, alchemers, WHB, or Antiguas).
The rest are usually just weaker.
(Calibur, Flourish, thorn blade, blasters, pulsars, catalyzers, autoguns, magnus, faust, troikas, DVS, CIV)
Armors can get better buffs and stronger or more useful status resist.
Thu, 01/15/2015 - 11:57
#165
Other thread was deleted by
Other thread was deleted by forum mods (who have time for that, but no time to post patch notes)...
[deleted again - 3rd time's the charm]
But let's talk about it. Would bringing Rads back to pre October 2013 nerf levels be good for the game? The money noobs spend on radiants are now being spent on new gear and actually playing the game. Downcrafting recipes would actually make sense... I'd rather have rare 4* crystals if it mean I could have a plethora of radiants to spend crowns on.
Because far too often do I see "3 - 0 radiant runs" in CW and Vog forbid 0 rads during an FSC run.
The faux radiant buff is a joke. News flash: rads are still rare on 25 and uncommon on 26 and below.
We've been having this discussion since the problem began with many proposals.
I mean really... are there any downsides to have 5* crystals the way they should be?
Thu, 01/15/2015 - 13:08
#166
Well the problem is that we can't know whether or not it would benefit the game profit-wise. There is always the chance that profits would just tank if radiant fire crystals were made regularly available, and that that tanking . On the flip side, there is the chance that making Spiral Knights truly free, i.e. amount paid has absolutely no effect on gameplay or progression, would be the thing that puts it up there with titles like Dota, Team Fortress 2, World of Warcraft, titles that people remember.
Logically, players would (should) all vote for the second of these options- if the game fails, it has very little bearing on them, and the chance for Spiral Knights to become something incredible far outweighs the risk of it failing completely. There are currently many MMOs built with the same premise as ours, but no games like ours that are also free from the "necessary evils" of being freemium.
Thu, 01/15/2015 - 13:09
#167
just to clarify
Just to clarify, the "Radiant buff" of release 2014-02-26 was not trivial. My FSC payouts went from no more than 6 Radiants to about 18 Radiants.
I'm not saying that 18 is enough, or that the other Radiant missions pay enough. I'm just trying to make sure that the readers of this thread know that the Radiant buff was not anything like a lie.
Thu, 01/15/2015 - 14:29
#168
Well...
Right now radiants aren't broken, but are nowhere near fixed. Personally I think adding ensured radiants at the core (that works similar to Basil, so you actually have to be in a few levels and not just join at the core) would make arcade runs a better option. If you had an ensured 12-15 radiants per tier 3 run you'd do them more, especially since you can get even more on top of that.
This may be attributed to the fact that radiant fire crystals hate me and I'm never finding those absurd 60+ in even elite shadow lairs(highest I've had recently was 30-40 in a UFSC I think? That's like, a D28 arena). Having an ensured 12-15 per arcade run would make the 12-18 I already usually get worth something extra, and make the 0-radiant runs not worthless. If I could buy more from Basil at the core for a reasonable-ish price I would as well.
Fri, 01/23/2015 - 03:28
#169
guaranteed rads at the core is a neat idea, but I dont think it would do much to solve the problem.
a core basil selling rads is not a good idea.
it would lead to the supply depot crystals becoming useless and that every one would go to the core once only to buy a couple thousand rads and never need more. OOO could just as well lower the fire crystal prices in the supply depot.
Fri, 01/23/2015 - 16:19
#170
Presume that OOO needs a paywall to fund SK, if the UV roll and lockbox/promo box popping gamble addicts don't provide enough funding alone. Basically they moved the paywall from 4 star hall of heroes to 5 star forging. I presume that was done to paywall normal people who just want to finish their only vanguard set, while paywalling them later in the game than 4 star hall of heroes.
My solution is for OOO to make a forging pass in place of the older heating passes.
Fri, 01/23/2015 - 18:19
#171
Well on the core Basil thing
Have a core vendor that only sells X amount of radiants. Say they sell them for like, 1k crowns each, or even just 800 crowns per radiant, up to a maximum of like, 30 radiants per run. In order to get that option, you'll need to have been in that party for 3-4 depths prior to the core, else the recipe list would be empty.
Seems like a reasonable way to fix the issue IMO. For optimal radiants you would run vanaduke about 3 times for the crowns, get some radiants that way, then run any arcade gate and get another 30+ radiants. It's a better system than the whole "only do mission-version vanaduke" that we have going on right now. You could get 30 radiants from the run itself (if arenas smile upon you), then an additional 30 from the core. That's 60 radiants per run if you're willing to give up some crowns.
Sat, 01/24/2015 - 22:14
#172
radiant drought over?
I found radiants at depth; 26,27,28 today... coincidence?
Sun, 01/25/2015 - 05:59
#173
@fangel
you dont seem to have made calculations.
at 1kcr each, it costs 453kcr to heat one item.
with current supply depot prices, it costs about 480kcr to heat one item.
not an improvement. not at all.
@yvanblo
unless you found more than a handful and are able to do so repeatedly, no.
Sun, 01/25/2015 - 17:49
#174
I don't think it will take
I don't think it will take much to fix it, personally a one floor buff (ie floor 25 will have floor 26 drop rates etc.) would be enough to satisfy me. That would provide s small overall increase, and the danger mission final floors will drop rads with floor 27 chances, and would reward players more for being skilled enough to complete them.
Mon, 01/26/2015 - 10:47
#175
well...
@Neueragon: Well, I did 3 runs through T3 arcade last night, and ended up with ~40 Radiants. That's not a ton of them, but that's more than I have collected in a long time.
I consistently picked up Radiants on 26, 27, 28.
Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:52
#176
Um.
at 1kcr each, it costs 453kcr to heat one item.
with current supply depot prices, it costs about 480kcr to heat one item.
One number is smaller than the other. It doesn't have to be a huge margin difference, just something.
Plus players are more likely to buy radiants for crowns in small doses than high doses for high prices. It's more or less basic mind-games. :\
Another thing is the fact that since this vendor is only available at the core, the player must have been going through previous depths, thus getting radiants (hopefully) there. What the vendor does is ensure your run nets radiants. I'd be up for having each stratum traveled that run to take 100 crowns off the radiant price with the price starting at 1,100 crowns. This means if you join at the party lobby, radiants cost 900 crowns (~407k for one item) or 1,100 if you join at the core (increasing the costs from 480k from the depot to ~498k). This encourages playing earlier strata and not just "joining for the radiants", as you'll net less if you use that vendor. (continued at bottom of post)
In the olden days you didn't profit from heating up your gear (you spent mist). For whatever reason, players now don't want to part with their infinite income whereas players used to try to part with their limited income ASAP. Have the game nickle and dime us but at a slightly better rate. Sure, a ~6% better price isn't much, but it's still a better price. That's ~3 Vanaduke runs you don't have to do.
I do agree on having a maybe ~10% better price would be better. Once you hit double digits, players will start thinking they're getting a deal, even if they're not. It's good that the numbers I suggested got past the 5% breakpoint, as people consider 5 to be a really small number for whatever reason.
Bottom line is heating is expensive, as it was before. Difference is before you paid with "free" energy (or with a monthly elevator pass. forge pass pls happen), now you pay with paid energy or time. The thing I suggested gives us the options to use crowns, which are generated for free, hence giving us another way to "pay" for our weapons.
It's not glorious, but it's better. You need to take a step before you can walk after all.
(...continued)
And yes, this means if you do an entire cradle run, you'll end up with each radiant costing 500 crowns, bringing each weapon down to ~226k crowns per radiant! If you wanted to encourage this system, make each strata you go through add X amounts of radiants to the vendor (with X being the original starting amount). Perhaps 15 could be the X? That'd be 90 radiants per run, and cost 45,000 crowns for those 90 radiants. If you bought from the depot, you'd be spending 61,400 more crowns on the same amount of radiants, assuming an 8000:100 crowns to energy ratio. This also means that you only lost ~25-30k crowns from your run, as an entire cradle and all run would net you around 15-20k. That's like, a recipe you've been looking for. Not bad. Bigger numbers make the value even better. 180 for a full run at 500 crowns(aka, x = 30)? You're saving ~201k crowns for the two+ hours you spend getting to the core. Making the numbers bigger after this will start get get kind of ridiculous, but you see what I'm getting at I hope.
Mon, 02/02/2015 - 05:43
#177
@fangel
while your suggestion does give incentive to run arcade with the price reduction, it still isnt as low as some people on this thread apparently want.
I have a few gripes with the middle part. first of all, the energy required to use elevators wasnt that expensive. also FSC paid off more than the energy costs.
cr nowadays are not generated freely. you need to pay with time.
Mon, 02/02/2015 - 14:29
#178
We all talk about how rads
We all talk about how rads aren't common enough.
So let's talk about a counter argument.
4* crystals at depth 24 through 30.
WHY?
Mon, 02/02/2015 - 17:00
#179
↓
@Paintool
You can get shining fire crystals in a shadow lair on elite?
Guess I should record more shadow lairs. I've been only getting radiants from them.
Tue, 02/03/2015 - 00:35
#180
@paintool
I think you mean depth 17-28.
you can find shinings at the end of T2, up until the last normal depth.
I dont know about depths 29 and from what I have heard, SLs only drop rads.
Tue, 02/03/2015 - 05:37
#181
I'm going with what I've been
I'm going with what I've been getting in the Apocrea missions which have boxes and 4* crystals up until depth 28 that I know of.
I'm also counting OCH and the final room on elite with still getting 4* crystals.
I guess my point is why do 4* crystals get to be in 3 stratums?
Tue, 02/03/2015 - 08:32
#182
Regarding Fangel's suggetion,
Regarding Fangel's suggetion, since players would want to complete a large section of arcade to get cheaper radiants, I imagine that players would be more likely to spark if they died in late tier 3 rather than have to start back at the beginning of tier 1. And since spark drop rates are so low, that means more players buying sparks most likely. OOO still makes some money.
Tue, 02/03/2015 - 09:13
#183
There is so much wrong with a core vendor though. To begin with, you can already buy radiant fire crystals with crowns. Here's how-
Crowns -> Energy -> Radiant fire crystals
It's not really so hard to do, so what you're really asking for is a discount that only applies to the end of runs through the arcade. Why the arcade? Because you want more players to play that instead of Firestorm Citadel and to motivate doing these runs you think they should get a discount at the core... but that isn't the issue at hand and Firestorm Citadel is, contrary to popular belief, not out to get you or even the "best place to grind". Similarly, this shop would work to average the prices out, making all radiant fire crystals worth the same amount and stopping the whole "get to the core" thing in its tracks, as well as not not lowering the prices enough. Instead of grinding content, we'd be grinding the shop.
If you do stuff like this it ties knots in the game, the best example being the spark system. No, not sparks of life, primal, forge and grim sparks... why are they in the game? So that you can opt out of finding those rare materials you can never get your hands on because at one point, materials WERE the radiant fire crystals and people legitimately had trouble finding them. Now the feature is redundant and we have this strange extra set of currency for no good reason, instead of using it on materials we horde them and then cash in for trinkets which we promptly sell.
Alternatively to the shop idea we could just mess with the drop rates, or lower the price. Why can't that be the globally accepted solution? Is there any down side to doing these things within reason? Am I the only one seeing this? I might be crazy in the literal sense, but come on...
Tue, 02/03/2015 - 11:50
#184
That's not a bad point actually
Seeing as the token sparks aren't really used, perhaps we could add rarities to Brink's shop?
Primal could be traded for bound sparks of life, forge could be traded for all the fire crystals (1 token for 5 0* crystals, 2 tokens for 5 1* crystals, 5 tokens for 2*, 10 tokens for 3*, 20 tokens for 4*, 50 tokens for 5*. Maybe less overall, but you see what I'm saying), and perhaps grim could be traded for orbs of alchemy.
Would give those items a bit more boost in helpfulness. However I still believe a core vendor would be a good solution to the current problem if prices do not change, as that would be the simplest and easiest way to go about the issue but the prices haven't changed for over a year now.
Tue, 02/03/2015 - 14:03
#185
I think thats a great idea
I agree with Fangel, I think that's a great idea! I think they should definitely change to that. The Spiral Knights team made it soooooo hard to get those crystals.
Mon, 02/09/2015 - 09:21
#186
while making fire crystals purchasable with sparks (not of life) would mean you could get more radiants, the problem is that sparks are kind of rare.
so unless the spark drop rates are buffed, I dont think it will solve the problem in any way. and if you want to buff the spark drop rate, why not buff rad drop rate instead?
Mon, 02/09/2015 - 09:35
#187
Well, for one, sparks can drop on all levels, and I'm not forced to set aside enough time to play to actually get deep enough where radiants even spawn. With my playstyle (this may not be true at all for a majority of people), I get more sparks per week than I do radiants. I like Fangel's idea.
And you know, lately I've been thinking, I would even be sort of ok with the sad radiant drop rates as they are now -- IF the upgrade from level 10 four-star to level 1 five-star weren't such a downgrade. I used to get my continued fun in playing from trying to amass a big arsenal (and actually use it, too), and now everything sits at 4* because I don't want to even upgrade it to 5* unless I have enough radiants hoarded to level it up most of the way. Ever since the radiant nerf, I have barely played at all and I have certainly not bought energy; the fun just isn't there for me anymore.
Mon, 02/09/2015 - 10:47
#188
So lets say we, pretending to be developers accepting this spark-shop idea, want each run to average 40 radiant fire crystals, and that currently each run gives out 10 sparks and 20 radiant fire crystals on average. We should thus make 10 sparks sell for 20 radiant fire crystals, so that the player finds 40 radiant fire crystals per run.
Noting that the player is supposed to fight difficult content to gather their radiant fire crystals; i.e. shouldn't be able to get them from the jelly king-- in what way would you say having the player find 10 sparks and trade them for 20 radiant fire crystals to add to their collection of 20 radiant fire crystals superior to just handing the player 40 radiant fire crystals?
Tue, 02/10/2015 - 05:42
#189
Here's an idea.
What if there
Here's an idea.
What if there were no chance at "failed forging"?
Even the smallest amount of crystals guarantees success to go to the next level.
The premiums of double level ups and forge boxes can still only be redeemed at putting in more crystals though.
Sun, 02/15/2015 - 11:57
#190
no failed forging would mostly solve the radiant issue.
heating an item with bought rads would now cost 2.1kCE which is bearable, or on average 8 FSC runs, which is also bearable.
though I think that if you dont buff the bonus chances for 2x or 3x, then nobody would use those anymore.
Mon, 02/16/2015 - 15:03
#191
But who even bothers at the
But who even bothers at the 20% chance success rate for 5* items on the lowest forge level?
I mean... 20% chance of success and MAYBE a 25% heat bonus?
If they wanted people waste Radiants, they should have forge prize boxes only be available for the lowest option and have people blow radiants or shinings so they fail more often and free up inventory memory. Forging could have been a good idea, but the way it's set up right now is aimed at wasting your time in the hopes you play more.
It makes me want to play less and find something where I know my efforts mean something.
Like making my own story.
If "no failed forging" was a thing, then that would also allow people to work on tons of new weapons to sink their time into instead.
The only reason we're even talking about it is because no talks back to us. It's frustrating, and it especially frustrates me.
Are they afraid to make the game better? It's easy to criticize, yes, but when you've shown us in the past you can "adjust" radiants, then there's no excuse as to why they are holding back.
Mon, 02/16/2015 - 21:44
#192
OOO should just make that
OOO should just make that forge pass already. I don't even care if the pass would be bound and only available through money purchases.
Mon, 02/23/2015 - 07:42
#193
I pretty much agree with you paintool.
in the time since the radiant issue popped up, I have made many 4* items. if I were to upgrade them, I would need recipes (but no orbs, because I already have more than enough), which need 25kcr per recipe at least.
right there you got a crown sink.
now that 5* is actually far easier to make, I would also want to make more. maybe I could make a winter grave, or how about some sun shards?
right now though I have little incentive to make new gear, as my old gear, which is already heated, most of the time outclasses anything new.
forge pass is meh IMO.
Mon, 02/23/2015 - 08:59
#194
I would be content with a forge pass if it didn't directly cost real world currency, didn't completely remove fire crystals and was relatively inexpensive compared to the ridiculous costs of heating we have right now. The reason we would want to consider such a forge pass as opposed to just making the prices cheaper or the crystals drop sooner, is because of how daunting any large number of new items requiring heat crystals can become. If I have one new item, it's not so bad- I can live with leveling it for several months and then having it done, but if I have ten, fifteen, twenty.. thirty? I'm looking at how long to heat my gear?
My options are pretty limited when it comes to heating my way through a pile of gear:
Spend one million dollars Dr. Evil style to heat everything
-or-
give up on upgrading entirely
-or-
grind it out over the course of a lifetime
-or-
abuse the "go solo" button with alts to REALLY grind it out
-or-
leave the game and do something else.
With an energy pass in place, I get another option-
Purchase an energy pass using in game currency (energy) and heat like there's no tomorrow.
Eventually, I will run out of gear to heat and my pass will expire and I'll be happy, but this is an MMO and the entire point of it is to collect more items to use collecting more items, which implies that I'll be purchasing another pass in the future to continue onwards.. and this is a significantly better course of action than grinding, leaving or giving up on new gear entirely.
But there are a few problems with just having it be "free heating"
First, it would make radiant fire crystals useless when they shouldn't be a given. This is particularly bad because of how fire crystals make it necessary for you to delve deep, they challenge you the player to strive for more and really force you to improve skill and gear wise to get at them efficiently. Another aspect it removes is the gambling during gear creation, double level ups, 25% heat boost and those "fun" perks. The developers also probably wouldn't want to remove such a good energy sink from the game either.
Solution: "Forge booster" = vastly improves the forge, rather than negating it
In short, here's what we'd be looking at-
Here's how it could work-
And while I'm sure this could use some tweaking (especially if you had the numbers sitting around you some place), I'd consider it a recipe for success on both ends at this point.
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 02:07
#195
"forge booster" looks nice
"forge booster" looks nice but problem with forge is only at 5* weapons in case that you don't have radiants... so as it was said there just should be changes in radiants drop, not really big because there should be anything to do ( easy 5* orbs and radiants farming will make getting maxed 5* items just too easy ) but like it was said radiant drop from 26->25, 27->26 etc. and no shinings at 28d ! because they drop everywhere: end of T2 - have some shinings, beginning of T3 - have some shinings,middle of T3 - have some shinings, end of T3 - few rands and SOME SHININGS :<
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 12:49
#196
That's....
That's actually a really good idea Fehzor. Perhaps it could also make +1 crystal drop from boxes while active?
However I'd like to see these passes also come with actual money purchases. If anything, maybe they would have 2 week variants sold in unbound packs for each $10 your spend on the game? Buying the $20 pack would get you 3 of these 2 week passes, the $50 pack would give 8 of them, and the $100 one would give you 17 unbound passes!
This way there's the supply depot variant for everyone, and the real-money purchases that also give you energy to spend on more passes. In this method, energy has a purpose to purchase always (buy energy for forge passes, spend energy on forge passes) just like in the old days of mist. Heck, you could give out a free 2 week pass as well for every $100 spent on the game, effectively making the $100 pack give 17 unbound + 1 bound pass. Would be nice to be working towards a pass while also buying the fun promo items. This tactic makes spending money on the game feel more worthwhile, and the bottom line is everyone benefits.
Heck, this may make heat amplifiers more sought after.
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 14:32
#197
@Shadow-Anubis
It could still work when heating other star levels of gear, it just wouldn't be needed and would be rather wasteful. It'd save you those crystals and level those up faster with more boxes, so I don't see why that would be a bad thing.
And yes, I would rather just see a boost in drop rate.. but if that's impossible for money reasons or some such, then there is always merit in the booster pass idea.
@Fangel
I'd be glad for them to introduce boosters to all sorts of packs, as long as it's available to everyone for energy. That way, the developers are getting paid and you can get it for "free".
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 17:12
#198
Yeah...
In the past elevator passes were about $6 per month, and once elevator costs were removed each month was valued at 2675 energy or something specific like that, so 3 months is ~8000 energy by that model for $18.
So if these passes save us about 8000 fire crystal's worth in energy over 3 months, it'll be a good investment. Which, if used correctly, it would easily do.
I'm all for this idea in terms of monetization. It makes buying energy fun, like energy/box promos seem to do.
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 20:24
#199
↓
Possible solutions have been suggested frequently before. Most have their pros and cons. Some are more creative than others and better address the multifaceted problem.
A lot of the older ones can be found in a list I compiled over here. Keep in mind my thread containing that list is about 1 year old now, with linked threads/discussions around the same timeframe. Be careful about necroing threads.
@Fehzor
Random threads should not be "this is a good spot for a suggestion". You should make your own thread in the suggestion forums if you want to suggest something... not derail a general discussion thread.
Tue, 02/24/2015 - 19:17
#200
Quit going off topic with your moderation issues, Skepticraven. Take it up with the GMs instead if you care to, but I don't see what I've done wrong here.
http://spiral.onyxbits.de/archives/speculations/how-to-miss-the-point-di...
I feel I should give a comment to that, because why not.
first of all, rarities are kind of a misnomer. sparks are common, most fire crystals are common, meaning that a large part of rarities are in fact not rare. simply dismissing the problem because of a name is a bad argument.
what does "not part of the game logic" mean? are you saying that we should all leave our 5* gear at heat lvl 1? well then we might as well eliminate 5* items, because they are worse anyways. while we do that, how about we just make the whole T3 just for paying players? doesnt that sound just great?
I get that we should buy them, but the price at which they are sold is completely unreasonable. I bet OOO would make more money if it lowered the price.
"The only reason they drop at all is so that Spiral Knights can be marketed as free to play. This makes it absolutely pointless to discuss drop rates or transformation processes."
this pisses me off. first of all, before radiants existed, there was no artifical paywall between us and the endgame. if you wanted a fully heated 5* item, all you needed was 800CE, a little cr and some time to heat. now you need to shower OOO in money, at least according to you.
and about the mixed calculation BS. the difference isnt that big really. I can either farm FSC for 20 hours, spend over 20 bucks or do something inbetween, just to heat one item. now imagine a new player coming by, going so far as to reach the second-last hall of heroes. he makes himself a full 5* set after some time (5 items) and then wants to heat them, like for FSC. this person then looks at grinding time, which will be at least a whopping 100 hours in FSC runs and thinks it might be nice to buy the rads instead. he then sees that he needs to spend (at best dollar to CE prices) 70 dollars to make his items good again. guess what that person is gonna think. I bet it will be something along the lines of P2W. i would also not be surprised if our random player just flat out leaves. need I remind you that player retention is a good idea for profit?
looks like YOU missed the point.