Charge shots are extremely situational and you should really go by what you want out of the normal shots.
that being said, I like my Polaris a lot better than I liked my Cryotech Mk II (I started liking it more when I made it into a Kilowatt already). The normal bullets do so much more damage and the knockback from any direction allows you to shape mobs into the clump sizes that you want, or scatter them if they're too bunched.
I like the Kilowatt Pulsar series a lot better, personally.
I have a penchant for the catalyzer line of guns. are they truly as bad as people make them out to be?
It really piqued my interests at the only poisoning gun.
The catalyzer's an oddball that works best only when every single player is using one. Thankfully any catalyzer can set off the charge attack's explosion, so they don't have to be using the exact same catalyzer, but if you use it in a group with anybody that's going to attack the same monster, you can see your work at setting up an explosion go completely to waste.
To say nothing of it's damage output, as I haven't used one myself. The shots also move very slowly, like those of a pulsar, but without the larger hitbox to make up for enemy movement.
It DOES look fun to use though, in the same way winmillion or the big angry bomb look fun from an external viewpoint. I'll get round to getting one soon, 2 more IMF runs.
Kersallus who told you they were bad? at the OP of this thread he lists the biohazard as his primary shadow damage gun, it has a good rate of fire, damage, and a aoe charge utility option. Its just got slow bullets, so you have to be able to work around that, great for slimes, can be a bit annoying to hit gremlins with, but doable with practice. I'm putting off upgrading my toxic catalyzer though because I don't really like it's charge attack much, so I'm going to spend sometime considering before paying for a 4star.
The bullets speed up slightly with each upgrade,
jussaiyan
At 2*, You can run clearly faster than your bullets - I think you can actually touch/run past them.
At 3*, It's a little faster. You can "revive" bullets by shooting periodically and chasing them (it looks like it's the same bullet, sort of).
At 4*, You can "revive" your bullets by shooting periodically like you can with the 4*, if you shield cancel some of the end lag so you can run earlier
At 5*, It's only a miniscule amount slower than your run speed - you can't touch your bullets, but you can see the gap sort of closing.
@Kersallus
As a normal damage gun, there are far better alternatives like the Pulsar -> Supernova or the Blaster -> Valiance
But as there are only two shadow dmage guns out there right now, the Biohazard/Toxic Catalyzer is the definite choice. 3-shot clip, chance to poison on normal bullets, and a devastating charge attack that comes quickly, I would rate it high above the Umbra Driver in terms of versatility. The only thing going against it is the slower bullet speed and that's easily worked around.
I got nearly the same guns as Revolver.
Normally I use:
- Callahan: simply because you can kill devilites and wolver very well.
- Biohazard: way higher shadow damage than the alchemer, also you can do huge aoe damage and that crow controlled, and you are able to poison enemies wich let them take 10% more damage from EVERY player, weaken their attack power and let them slowly die near a silkwing or other healer.
- Polaris: much much way higher element damage than all alchemers. I know often said you will get dislikes from your party members, well only if you just spam it in somewhere... There are allways mobs at different spots, attack these where your friends don't fight, or attack them from closer so you wont splash them too much, even then with 3 shots more damage than the alchemer. Also great for sniping Gun Puppies!
I just have 3 Weapon slots at the moment, because I think 400 Crowns per day is expensive if you don't play every day, so 800 C would ruin me XD.
At FSC I use:
- Blitz Needle instead of Callahan: you just don't need the Callahan there. At the citadel aren't any mobs who will avoid your attacks. Also Blitz Needle is way better against all the Trojans. You just can attack em from behind, so you have to wait. Waiting = Charge -> Callahan normally deals ~400 (two shot) to the Trojan, charged about the same. The Blitz Needle deals uncharged 800 and if you hit the Trojan with a full charge you deal about 2200 damage! The BN Charge is so awensome! nearly 3x bullets and ea shot deals 25% more dmg ^^ ♥
I've used the Alchemer and Antigua Series, and they're just too weak. I would cry if I had to use them D: Alchemer are medium, but the Antigua sux badly for a gunner, but still good for Sword or Bombermen.
mfg Abathur (ig)
:D
That's awesome lol. Blitz Needle charge vs trojans is so fun that I'd usually rather wear valkyrie set than fallen in FSC because it's too satisfying to kill them in 1 charge attack with up to 2 people in party.
Have just recently switched to the world of the gun when I got a Magnus. I have gotten other guns, but for some reason they do not auto aim like the Magnus. If I am in a 60 degree arc the Magnus auto aligns with the closest enemy, other guns I find I have to be aligned already to hit. I use a controller so it is not as easy as using the mouse to point at targets due to the 'ring' around me that the direction the character affixes to is small (precision aim difficult). I have tried controller to move and mouse to aim/shoot but that just complicated things. For the record, I abhor WASD!
Am I missing a fundamental? How can I get other guns to aim like the Magnus? Or don't they?
Thanks,
Open up your options and go to controls. Scroll to the very bottom and there should be an check box for auto-aiming.
Ok im new in this and my english is awful and have some questions.
¿Storm driver or polaris?
¿Biohazard or umbra?
What 2 weapon setup is good ?
The check box for auto-aim is checked and I can turn it off by holding down the space-bar (key I have the action mapped to). It works great with the Magnus. So, if I have the Magnus and Alchemeer fitted, for example, the Magus will turn my character from 3 to 2 o'clock when I fire, but the Alchemer and other guns won't - even though they both get the auto-aim circle under the enemy, the Alchemer still shoots at 3 o'clock.
Ok, I may have to catch what I am talking about on screen...
Suggestions before I do? Does anyone know what I am referring to?
@raton15
If you can get MAX CTR on the alchemers:
Storm Driver + Umbra Driver
If you cannot afford MAX CTR:
Biohazard + Polaris
Alchemer charge attacks are deadly, but it requires a good CTR to become effective.
Biohazard and Polaris are good no matter which UV on them.
So you mean:
Alchemer are "good" if you got charge time reduction, but Biohazard and Polaris are allways good? I confirm this, but still, i would cry i had to use a magma driver or something to kill for ex. zombies D: The Alchemer damage is laughtable, evencharged if you can hit ø5 at one. At that time you charge (even with CTR) i shot 4 times with my polaris, hit allways ø2 mobs, already made more damage...
Alchemer are just if you can't aim, fast bulletspeed. That's all.
Damage UV's (and penalties - including poison) on Catalyzers (biohazard,neutralizer) only affect the regular shot, not the charge shots.
So the most noticeable UV effects are going to be either CTR or ASI.
Charged shots on Alchemers are not used for damage. They have longer range compared to normal shots. This is very helpful for situations where you need that extra range. Places with multiple Gun Puppies can be difficult to handle because you will spend more time shielding and dodging than actually shooting at them. A charged shot makes it easier to pick them off one by one instead of getting too close and dealing with bullet hell.
And here again: Polaris. The Polaris prevents Puppies from attack...
@Xyonon
Did you forget that the alchemer bullets bounces twice?
The alchemer charge attack shoots one "1.5 times damage bullet" then 4 normal bouncing bullets, which will bounce twice each. Each of those 4 bullets can hit 3 times due to the bouncing, so you can hit up to 12 times + the "1.5times damage bullet".
If you sideshoot a mob correctly with the charge attack of a 5* alchemer you are guaranteed to hit atleast 6 times+the initial hit, because the bullets are stuck in the mob, so they'll bounce 100% in it.
If you shoot correctly between two mobs you can hit 12 times + the initial hit, by the time you're shooting 4 bullets with the Polaris.
Some of the bouncing bullets may miss the target, due to the weird way the bouncing bullets go.
"And here again: Polaris. The Polaris prevents Puppies from attack..."
So does the alchemer charge initial hit.
"Alchemer are just if you can't aim, fast bulletspeed. That's all."
Polaris are just if you can't aim, slow bulletspeed. That's all
@Velops
Why are charged shots on alchemers not used for damage? They can deal tons of damage from a safe distance.
So the way I read it Handgun Attack Speed increase doesnt affect reload, trying to decide if I should make dreadshot mantle or nameless armor for gunslinging. The only enemies I have problems with is fiends, anything else I can avoid taking damage.
With 2 pieces of nameless armor is the firing speed noticeable at all? Usually I fire one or two shots then shield to avoid reloading depending on which gun im using. I also considered get one from each set so I have some of both( elemental/shadow defense)
@baodn: Most of the time it is just faster and more convenient to shoot the full clip of regular shots because the combined IAS from most gunslinger sets favors this. The situation with charge attacks changes if you are using the Deadshot or Shadowsun gear since they replace the IAS with damage modifiers. You only get 4 ricochets from the charged shot of 5 star Alchemers. The 4 star Alchemers only have 2 ricochets from charged shots. It is therefore harder to justify using charged shots until upgrading to 5 stars.
@blaze200: You can see the difference from IAS if you test it out in the Advanced Training Hall.
I agree that in most cases, it is best to just use the basic attack. I must still say that a 5* alchemer with max CTR and high dmg bonus can be used for alot of damage from a safe/close range.
@cutebunnys
Watch these 3 videos it shows pure gunslinging
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ4uYM1sjJA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9wFxAY9Ftw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9I_YDZW8K4&feature=related
P.S: People Tend To Underestimate ALCHEMERS
By the way Polaris (pulsars) are bugged, the expanded bulets do normal damage while the small do elemental, this can both be advantegous and disadvantegous
I thought they fixed that, the expanded shots on my polaris does more damage to constructs and undead than the small ones.
The following three hats all have the same picture:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Deadshot_Chapeau
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Justifier_Hat
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gunslinger_Hat
I just find it incredibly strange that the 3* Gunslinger Hat is the same exact costume as the 5* Deadshot and Justifier Hats... In terms of costumes, Gunslinger, Deadshot, and Justifier hats all have the same exact look? Can anyone who has these hats confirm this to be true?
1. Pulsar has been fixed long time ago. Deals elementary damage now.
2. Yea they really look same, same as Nameless and Shadowsun are both black ;)
So the trueshot (damage bonus) trinkets are best for gunslingers right?
If you have Nameless (+ speed) take damage tinker.
If you have Shadowsun (+ atk) take attack speed tinker.
Note Nameless gives Medium, Medium, while Shadowsun gives Low Low, but both thinkers give Medium, so it's better to go for Nameless + dmgtinker.
You actually can go for Shadowsun + dmg tinker too, but use a swift strike then.
Note you just can get buffed dmg or speed up to 6. If you already have something like Dmg bonus max, it's worthless if you get an uv like that.
Sorry for the lack of replies, I've been busy (still am) and haven't been able to play. I can't guarantee a reply every day, but I will try my best.
@Xynon
I am working on getting a Blitz Needle, with a good party you can really maximize the damage compared to with a Callahan against Vanaduke. Though with the recent patch that makes it so you have to deal with Slags and Zombies, I may still stick with my Callahan since you can't really afford to stand still that long when there are that many enemies around.
Also as for the Alchemer debate, I still stand by my point that it's just not good to use for parties, especially if they use swords. I run with a full party almost all of the time, and as a gunslinger you shouldn't be picking off the targets that are by themselves, you're role is to support the DPS guys from a distance along with giving status effects without putting yourself in danger.
@anonalbe
Yes, the Justifier, Deadshot, Gunslinger, and Sunset all have the exact same design. The Nameless and Shadowsun hats are both identical as well. I've seen threads where people bring this up, but it seems that it's not a priority for the programmers right now.
@Jontlemen
I would say so. Shadowsun has piercing defense, and a measly low attack bonus a piece with negative status resists really doesn't compare with the Nameless. Making the trinkets so much more worthwhile.
That being said, I am only getting 1 Elite Trueshot Module and most likely a Elite Quickdraw Module. The reason is because my Callahan will gain a Max bonus vs Beasts with just 1 of them, and Max ASI if I use a full Nameless. This makes my Storm Driver's UV pretty much useless unless when using a nameless set, but I may start using only a Hail driver in that sense. I am still fervently thinking about just getting 2 Trueshots so I can have a Very High att bonus for all my guns (including against fiends with my Callahan), but I'd hate to waste such a good UV. Another option would be to go half Nameless, half Shadowsun so I wouldn't be wasting any UV, but the Shadowsun is a bit too pathetic for my liking.
Although I'm dedicated gunslinger I've never decided to wield Autogun. I've been playing with Pepperbox during preview event for a while only, but that's it.
But recently I've crafted UV Autogun with high damage bonus vs Beasts (often, when I'm unable to spend all my Mist Energy I craft Autogun or two and sell them in AH). At first glance it seems like good UV for Autogun and that's why I'm wondering if it's not a time to change my mind and eventually give it a try and add Autogun to my arsenal.
I don't want to make a new thread and I think it may be a good place to ask - can I get some opinions about Autoguns efficiency against beasts?
@merethif: something like:
*Pew Pew (stand sill)
*Wolver teleport behind you
*You still pew pew
..............
* BARCK BARCK BARCK !
I use a Blitz Needle with CTR:Medium
it's something like
- Charge and wait for wolvers to glow like they're about to attack
- release
- [spam of damage as they bounce around getting knocked down and juggled by each of the 15 bullets]
- 1 move kill
That's with the normal wolvers (and Trojans, with less people in party lol). Though with a Beast:High, you might even be able to nearly-kill alpha wolvers too :O
As for chromalisks - w/e - you can just keep spamming charge and they just get hit and die lol
I hope to complete the Master Gunslinger achievement (amass 10 guns in your arsenal) at some point, and I didn't want to just make the same gun over and over again. If it were Christmas and everything was free, which 9 guns [Proto being the 10th] would you pick? So far I see most people would include: Callahan, Argent Peacemaker, Hail Driver, Valiance, and Polaris. Any more that you think are worth it?
Biohazard
Umbra Driver
Blitz Needle
There's nothing useful past that really =P Some people argue for Blackhawk, and I guess you can go with a Magma Driver? It's the only elemental gun that might be situationally more powerful than a Polaris (fire being better single target, shock multi).
I just crafted a Master blaster and got it to lvl 5. And so far i havent seen any change compared to the Super blaster i had. THe stats say its supposed to do more damage but i havent noticed any difference. Is that just me or has anyone else noticed that too??
You won't see much of a difference in tier 2 between 3* and 4* weapons in general; the damage difference will be clear if you use it in tier 3, however. 4* weapons do about double or even triple their 3* version's damage in tier 3. Most 4* equipment isn't noticeably better than 3* gear in tier 2 until it reaches max heat (Biggest example of that is armor; in tier 2, 4* armor has a lower health bonus than 3* armor until it reaches level 5 heat)
Also remember that damage of any 3* and 4* weapon increases each floor you travel in tier 2, so you may be comparing the damage of the 3* version on the last floor of tier 2 to the damage of the 4* version on earlier floors.
So in your case it's probably not an issue with the gun.
You actually can kill wolver with Autogun. If the charge, make a step back and shot. You have to be fast b4 the burrow again. But the Magnus is way better in that point.
Okay, so after a long hiatus, and with enough people asking me to continue this thing up again, I've decided to start answering questions again.
A lot of things have changed since my last post, so a update seems necessary:
First of all, I will be answering questions and posting on this account from now on. I will continue to update the original post with the new gear I get, but in general I'm going to be using this account. Most of the reason is because I'm too lazy to keep switching back 'n forth between the two accounts and I guess if people really wanted a important question that isn't really suitable for a forum post could ask me directly.
I've expanded my Arsenal a ton, using many new setups, those of which I feel work and which doesn't. My opinions on many of the guns have changed as well, this means feel free to ask questions that have been answered before! Some of my tactics have changed, and playstyles with certain guns have altered extremely from my first posts.
I have, in fact, been playing PVP a lot lately. I don't call myself the best PVP player by any means, but I can definitely give some pointers or tips on how to use certain guns in Lockdown, how to react to certain players, ect.
Ask away!
How good is the Catalyzer line? Which alchemy path should I take for my autogun? How good is the Polaris? Which alchemer is the best? Is the Valiance good for gunslingers? Which gun would you say is the best?
Sorry, I'm beginning gunslinging, so I have a ton of questions.
The Catalyzer line is very useful for large groups of enemies, its amazing to have for kiting because of the great splash damage from the charge attack, and because of how fast it charges you aren't limited in highly dangerous areas and close quarters. If you're one of those soloists (though not limited to them), this is the gun for you.
The alchemy path for your autogun is entirely based on what you're looking for in the gun, and what your arsenal is in need of. If you're lacking a good piercing weapon then go for a Needle shot, if you're wanting a decent side arm for good dps on top of teammates' against most enemies, go for the pepperbox.
The Polaris has a great keep-out game with it's powerful knockback, which is extremely useful for gunners, and generally useful if a party needs some breathing room. But this is a both a gift and a curse, as in many groups I run with, the Polaris lowers the DPS of the entire party because of the knockback causing people to miss, and even take a hit. The effect covers up much of the screen, and when there are swordsmen coming in for an attack and you cover up the enemy in blue explosions and cause the mob to go flying around, it can get out of hand. You will need to be careful with how you use it so you don't end up screwing your team over. This gun especially shines against the turrets, since 2 of them are weak to elemental and the 3rd is neutral against it.
The alchemers all have strengths and specific situations they shine in, check out earlier posts for a little summary of all of them. I feel that each of them are viable guns, and there are no "best" versions.
Valiance is great for gunslingers, the knockback is enough to save your skin in tight situations, the bullets are fast and they do decent enough damage to be used against any enemy. If you have 3 slots, you may rather have the 3 damage types set, but this can be a great weapon as a backup, or 4th.
No gun is the best, they all have entirely different situational uses, so much so that it cannot be compared as a "best".
That's a little quick summary of your questions, further detail can be added.
i was wondering which gun is better my gun play style is shoot behind yu whille running away which gun is best for that
I tested both and i luv Biohazard over Shadowtech :/ Poison, splash and cc ftw!! :D
But i started to put Nova over Polaris .... annoying weapon >_>
@Metanat
Both guns fit well in your playstyle. Biohazard would do especially well since the bullets are quite slow, so they would reach the target faster if they were chasing after you into your shots.
In terms of Biohazard vs Umbra in general, I feel the poison from the Biohazard is a bit more useful, since Gremlin menders tend to be a big issue in arenas, and it helps the entire team overall. Though every now and then I will switch out the Biohazard with my Umbra when it comes to real gremlin heavy areas, the faster shots from the Umbra are really helpful when dealing with the Darkfang (T3) Thwackers that have a shield on their back. But if you can handle the gremlins fairly well with Biohazard, then by all means go for it.
@Abathur
Yeah, I just got a Polaris and I'm not a big fan. It even starts obstructing my own view when I'm shooting and hides the enemy's attack indicator. Though I've got to admit, having a full party of people using Polaris in FSC is extremely fun. A wave of blue, then after the explosion disappears all that's left is some crowns and heat :) It may be the best gun for PVP from my experiences with it so far as well.
I have used the polaris a ton since it has come out, but am now shifting my attention to alchemers.
Picking up where I left off, I will soon have an umbra and storm driver. Am I missing out by not having a nova driver?
Also, all my drivers have no uv's. I am wondering if a med+ asi uv on an alchemer makes it shine or is more of a nice-to-have.
I have seen many comments about how a polaris' dps decreases due to the knockback, but I sometimes feel like people forget about the non-expanded shots.
Against single targets, 3 non-expanded shots > 2 alchemer shots. At least, this is what I can extrapolate since I don't have my completed 5* storm driver yet to compare it to. Please comment.
You are absolutely not missing out by not having a Nova. The Storm driver is an extremely good alchemer that I use religiously, the support you give your team by shocking multiple enemies can be much more useful than killing a mob with 1 or 2 less shots.
The Med ASI is more of a little bonus, it's not going to change your playstyle dramatically or anything like that, but every now and then the added ASI helps out with shielding just in time and maybe a tiny dps improvement when constantly firing. More often than not you can get away without any UVs on these guns though.
The splash damage the Polaris gives out somewhat covers for the knockback issue, but my main problem is causing all of my teammates' dps to suffer from missing their shots or swings.
Against single targets the Polaris's 3 non-expanded shots end up with more damage than the 2 alchemer shots, but most of the time there will be more than one enemy to allow the alchemer's ricochet to come in to play. Also, you can argue the Argent Peacemaker's 6 shots out damage the alchemers 2 shots vs 1 target as well, but then you take into account that you can fire 3-4 alchemer shots in the time it takes to fire all 6 AP shots. The Polaris does have a pretty high rate of fire so that aspect isn't really anything noticeable, but allowing yourself to go close range for more damage isn't always the case. You may not be able to get close to the enemy in certain situations, and personally, if I feel I'm going to put that extra work in to get close to a target, I might as well be using a sword.
I'm not saying it's a bad gun, or that it's inferior to the Storm, but from a gunning standpoint it's not ideal.
I've just decided to give the Silversix line another shot, for the second time and I find it appealing for Firestorm Citadel.
I'm a swordy, but I carry more guns and probably use guns more in Firestorm Citadel then swords.
I mostly do FSC, so Silversix is good for that. My question is, would a Silversix be better then say a Prisma driver for zombies?
I'd probably use the Alchemer anywhere else then FSC, though I do hear that that is where it shines..
So for FSC, Alchemer or S6?
My set for FSC is the following,
Voltedge
Silversix/Prisma Driver (Was using a 4* shock alchemer before crafting S6 but now I'm interested in the Prisma line.)
Strike Needle
Electron Vortex
Thanks for your answer and revival of this thread!
Cheers,
~W
Sience the revival of this thread I have seen alot of talk of the Polaris and would just like to point out that with a decent amount of ASI, decent internet connection, and a mediocre amount of practice, you can wield this weapon in a responsable fashon without killing its effectiveness following these rules in order to be cordial and less obtrusive to your party;
a) Only use the knockback/expanded shot 1) if its necessary 2) if and then, you have your target set up like the ball you are trying to pocket on a billiards table and either have it all to yourself, or are protecting someones neck, or fireing at a turret of some variety, as they are rooted by nature and all three expanded shots are a guarantyd hit.
b) All other targets, give them the kite, clip reload clip treatment, as all three shots are far, far far more likely to connect than trying to set up a shot pattern that hits an enemy with all three expanded( which is possible, but not probable, and half the time you wont know cause the damage number popups will be pushed out of view with the target).
That being said, I still use my Hail driver in party pugs even tho I procced med asi on my Giga because I know how annoying a bad Polaris user can be and alot of people arent tollerant enough to wait to find out which type of user *you* are My2c.
~Luke
@Rangerwill
For Zombies the Prisma will definitely do more damage in FSC. Since there are so many monsters around and a lot of tight spaces, the ricochet is almost guaranteed to hit something, making it that more useful. Also, there are a ton of areas where you can get the Alchemer's charge attack to do crazy damage from every split shot landing. So much so, that I've actually wanted to look for a CTR Prisma for those sitiuations specifically. Once you've learned how to place the charge effectively, you will be happy you aren't poking away with a silversix.
The main reason I see people bringing a Argent Peacemaker is because they only carry 1 gun, so they would need something effective toward the zombies and Vanaduke, so it makes a great sidearm for sword users. But if you're going to use more than 1, you might as well get the pure-damaging types.
@Lukehandkooler
This is exactly how you guys should be using the gun, darn Polaris spammers... Anyway, it's kinda like what I said earlier, the point to being a gunslinger is support from a far, so if I'm mostly going to be close to the enemy for a kill, I'd rather pick a Sword to handle the job. The shots do go for a bit of a distance before they expand, so if you can master the technique Lukehandkooler is explaining, you will be a huge help to your team when they need it.
Also, to add to the technique, when firing to give knockback to a group of enemies, be sure to push them all in the same direction, don't just fire blindly toward the middle of the mob and spread them all over the place, try to shoot the shots in a way so they will all either get pushed directly backward, or in a diagonal direction. This allows your knockback to be more predictable for your teammates, and it helps increase your DPS by forcing the mob to bunch up and give you that extra splash damage.
Can someone post a hail driver charge shot video? I'm debating on whether to keep my cryo, or switch to pulsar. Thanks xP