pulsar (polaris line) or antigua? wich one do i pick?

triple post :P

Well you would have to use the shadowsun set with 2 elite trueshots and the alchemers would have to be lvl 10 with a CTR very high UV

as in one could effectively with it?

@Arvandor
What The-Rwarcake said is very close to what I would say. I would like to mention that the Biohazard is my shadow gun of choice, and the biggest issue with the gun is the slow bullets vs gremlins but I've already went over how to get over this minor setback. Regarding the slow movement during the charge attack is silly, since the charge is less than 1 second, and you're movement isn't as slow as many would think. You taking more damage using guns than with swords is entirely up to you and how you are using them, it has nothing to do with the weapon you use.

You absolutely cannot compare this MMO to others, all classes share the same health and base defense (disregarding status resists), they usually even use the same shields. Being able to deal damage from a range is not an "illusion of safety". And the further you are from an enemy the safer you get, so it's not even questionable what perks you get from being able to keep your distance.

@Joklnmm
There a very few reasons to bring either of those types of guns to FSC. There are very few jellies and no gremlins, and the only real bonus you get from bringing a normal damaging gun is for Vana's mask phase. I would say bring a Valiance or Supernova if you absolutely need a normal gun (the knockback from both can be useful), and a biohazard since you're just dealing with jellies for the shadow gun.

@Zinco
The guns are both very different, and you need to give me more information on what exactly you are looking for in a gun or what you're going to be using it for. If the AP becomes pure elemental then I can give a good comparison, but as of now it's going to be a fairly different use for each gun.

@Anakletos
Some guns I have the most fun with are Biohazard since the use of the charge attack is just so enjoyable, Valiance from the knockback (charge attack also sends lumbers flying), I do have fun with the Polaris every now and then (especially with 3 other people using it) but sometimes it just becomes mindless spamming and begins to lose it's shine.

Basically since fire doesnt stack, you shoot and set them on fire. Then you go in with your sword. This would give you more DPS than just gunning with a prismatech.

Think of it like this then.
I throw a fire vial and then go in with a sword.
compared to
Just tossing pots

Then why do people use status bombs

What is your opinion on full-auto guns? I know they can do massive damage if used properly but it kinda ruins my run look back shoot twice (or thrice depending on gun) and keep running.

@Atrapa-Almas
When using Autoguns the attack speed increase doesn't speed up the fire rate of each burst, but it speeds up the recovery from shooting and cuts the time inbetween shots. This means that you won't really notice a change when at max ASI (this is how I felt) and regular use overall. The CTR, on the other hand speeds up the charge attack enough to the point I would say to invest into it. The way these guns work are more for the charge attacks since the damage is actually worth the time spent to charge if you manage to get a good shot. So my vote would go for CTR.

@Lucal
Give me some actual guns you're talking about. I would assume you're talking about autoguns, and the technique you are using needs better explaining, it sounds like kiting to me, but I don't want to make a whole paragraph about something you don't need help on. Please ask again with some more detail.

@Arvandor
This thread isn't made to compare gunning to the other paths you can take. It's to help out the people who chose to gun. I don't want to hear why the sword is the way to go and how weak and detrimental it is to use a gun, this is definitely not the place to talk about it. I absolutely agree that guns are underpowered and need a buff, never once have I said otherwise. But that's up to OOO to decide. I also couldn't help but notice how little detail you put into advantages and how easy it is to see that the post is not unbiased one bit.
If you're not here to ask a question or help someone out, please don't post.

1. Try doing a shoot and shield combo and since you have a Cyrotech if the puppy gets frozen run to the other side and empty out at clip
You usually dont use the pulsar line on dodgy enemies and the explosion sometimes will damage them

2. No

3. Yes for alchemer, catalyzer, and autogun lines. No for the magnus, antigua, and pulsar lines. And blaster sort of fall in the middle

Thanks so much guys, now I know what equipment I should be aiming for, and what I can do to maximize my guns. =D

...over my 3 accounts, and I've finally scored CTR med. I'm tempted to keep going and wait for Very High, so I don't need the appropriate trinket to get max. Does someone wanna slap some sense into me?

Useful. Thanks! I would still want to get Max either way though. I'm a bit of a perfectionist. I guess it really depends though on how the CTR reduction on the trinket would complement the rest of the planned line-up vs extra damage, which curr stands as follows:
Hail Driver
Biohazard
Shivermist/Levi

I'm considering getting a couple of Antiguas to replace the first two once both lines become pure-damage. However, for right now, CTR would be useful on the driver, and awesome on the others, esp since I would only be using the Levi for charge attacks when cornered. Obv though, extra damage always helps. Opinions? I'm doing mostly FSC right now, if that helps.

***edited as I finally realised what NubCake meant... *facepalm*

With 4 of my planned 7 items of equipment still at 4*, and one not even started yet, I guess I need to focus my priorities better. Prob explains why I'm not studying right now. Thanks for the help! :)

i don't know if they will make the changes. i'm just assuming that they are since they didn't say they won't change it yet lol

I think it's safe to assume they will be changing the AP and Sentenza. The overall consensus is positive to the change, and it's not really like them to give false hope for these things. We need to keep in mind that both of these guns are the easiest to use in the game, so they can be a great weapon even if their damage won't be astounding at first.
The more usable guns, the better.

Just because you're attacking at range doesn't mean you're immune to harm. There are always enemies with projectile attacks, and many enemies will try and close distance with you. If you feel you can dodge Gun Puppies, Kats, Devilites etc. with ease (and have a good connection) then feel free to upgrade your guns before armour. If you're like me and play in Australia you're much better off upgrading your armour first.

(strictly for upgrading from 4* to 5*)

depends on your gun and armour.
some guns get crazy powerful from 4* to 5* while others are still pretty much the same gun. An example of a drastic change is the magma driver, the 4* version's burn is only around 30 damage per tick, while the 5* version's burn is more than double that damage. an example of a gun that doesn't really improve is the gigawatt and the polaris. the 5* version just explodes in a slightly bigger radius and blinds/annoys/kills your teammate even more than the 4*. the straight up damage increase from 4* to 5* isn't that dramatic with all guns (NOT damage caused by status effects). 5*'s do about 10 more in stratum 5 and 20 more in stratum 6.

with armour though, there is a noticeable difference in the asi boost gained from asi med to asi very high (if you are going for the asi lines). i don't know what guns you use and how you play so you'll have to decide if the asi boost will benefit you more than the weapon upgrades.

for anything lower than the 4*-5*:
weapons first. there isn't any sort of dramatic improvement in the armour sector. the guns get really noticeably stronger when u upgrade them in the lower *'s

It used to be that most (pure) gunslingers would go full Nameless, but that was before Polyps and Howlitzers were added into the game, now with turrets that fire multiple sources of damage (elemental (puppies) piercing (Polyps) and shadow (howlitzers), I think that diversifying protection like mixing deadshot/nameless, Justifier/nameless is now a sound thing to do. I run Nameless Hat, Justifier Jacket so that I can reach Maximum! ASI with one trinket slot left over and use a Dragonscale shield so that when shielded I have 2 sources of defense for normal piercing, and elemental, leaving me weak to shadow which, outside of Grievers in T3 arena usually doesnt hang me up. I am toying with running Scary Skelly Shield as a sidegrade for undead/fiend heavy stratums.

Armorwise, there really isnt a "wrong" way to go unless you consider the shadowsun pieces that only give +LOW damage and incur heavy resist penalties. You could do better with a +MED ASI piece and fit in a Trueshot trinket and come out ahead of these pieces.

Edit- As a side note full Justifier would probably be unwise too because some of the ranged attacks from retrodes & Skuttlebots are elemental, still kind of making the gunslinger defense priority Elemental before normal piercing or shadow. Outside of FSC (which I admtiedly have little to no experience with) I would really have to reach for a reason to use a Deadshot piece too.

~Luke

@Loziento

For your first armor set as a gunner, you should either pick full Nameless or split Nameless/Justifier. I tend to lean in favor of full Nameless simply because it actually gives you reasonable strength against elemental defense whereas with a split set you still wouldn't be all that strong against either. Shadowsun is terrible and desperately in need of rebalancing (if it didn't have the poison/curse weakness, nobody would equip it because low damage is weak, and if it had medium damage, the poison/curse weakness would probably tip the scales against it when compared to Nameless or Justifier).

Deadshot comes from the Gunslinger armor line, but it's really not a gun armor. The damage vs undead applies to swords and bombs as well, and it's sort of a targeted FSC armor without a fire resist. And while there are plenty of zombies in FSC, they're hardly the most dangerous things there, so it's still not exactly the ultimate FSC armor, because it doesn't have the crucial fire resist, and medium firing speed is likely to be more useful anyway.

You also shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that one set of armor is enough for everything. As much as we'd like it that way, any given gunner is probably going to want one set of Justifier and one set of Nameless. It's not exactly a high priority to get a second set of armor, but once you've got a set of equipment you're happy with, aim for a second set. That way, you can equip what you need to meet the demands of the stratum. And if shadow bothers you, you can then aim for any of the non-gun shadow armors, be it Deadshot, Silvermail, Valkyrie, Divine, or whatever else has the defensive split that best suits your needs. Or shoot for a shadow UV on a Gunslinger piece if you're lucky enough to find one.

And also choose a shield to complement the armor your wearing if you can.

As for guns, take what you like best to 5*. I recommend getting a Blitz for FSC for trojans and Vana. Get a Fiend UV on it if you can (CTR is gonna be a lil pricy). FSC can be dangerous, but it's not overly tricky once you get accustomed to it, and a Blitz/Polaris combo is plenty for the entire run. You really don't need all that many guns, and you can make do with just three, one for each type, one of which can even be Blitz if you supplement it with the Flourish for situations when the Blitz doesn't cut it. Or get a Callahan and only take the Blitz with you to FSC.

I'd look for guns with useful UVs, as well. Low vs gremlin on your Umbra Driver is better than nothing and shouldn't be all that expensive. Mediums tend to be more noticeable and still not too pricy. It really depends on what you can find, though, since guns aren't that popular.

And as a last note, trinkets are powerful and important so don't neglect them. They may be the last thing you pick up, but they can be as crucial as anything else.

autogun and alchemer lines charge time:
no CTR: 2.6s
low: 2.4s
med: 2.2s
high: 2.0s
very high: 1.8s
ultra: 1.6s
maximum 1.4s

don't know about the catalyzer line...

just from looking at the numbers, it seems ctr doesn't really do THAT much. however, the damage increases each hit by quite a bit. seems to me that the damage is a better choice (though i have never had a lot of experience with ctr)

Felt I had to respond here, as I've been asking almost the same question, in regards to the same weapons. First off, just to repeat Nubcake's handy little chart:
no ctr: 2.6s
low: 2.4s
med: 2.2s
high: 2.0s
very high: 1.8s
ultra: 1.6s (extrapolated!)
maximum 1.4s (extrapolated!)

Obv, the times will be diff on lines like catalyzer, where the charge time is much smaller than others (actually, I have no idea which gun this was based on), however it's still a useful indicator of what you're getting. In response to your question, given that literally every 5* weapon in the game gives CTR Med at lvl 10, and that a med CTR UV isn't *that* hard to grind out, you can easily get Max with only one, freeing up the second slot for Trueshotty goodness.

P.S: aaaaaaand, after seeing your name, I'm now gonna have this in my head for the rest of the day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z8GK-Ikwbo

I got a question. I already have my pierce gun and elemental gun. Should I go with a shadow or a normal?

Also which shadow gun is the best?