I've been using Polaris as a sidearm (read: fourth slot on a gunner loadout) for a while and the shock is kind of annoying me. It'll randomly stop knockback so you have to spend more time shooting at the mob in order to get it where you want it to go.

So, I'm thinking of crafting up a Supernova. Does anyone have experience with this, and is the Supernova worth having as a gun for locking down turrets and pushing mobs away when necessary?

Biohazard tears him a new one, shivermist+Bio = GG e-z mode.

Im not sure weather the use of the charged shot is any advantage though because when he enrages Im usually laying busters so when he becomes voulnerable again I have a clear line of fire. I have heard in another theorycraftish thread Bio does more single target DPS without useing the charge and TBH Im not even certain that the charge placed on JK is worthwhile for trying to cut back on the mini cubes or if it even plays off of him at all with his boss status and all. However the charge detonation seems to have a greater chance to induce poisoned status, so if you seem to be unlucky inflicting poison, you may want to resort to this.

Edit- @ Dirty-Harry, Wouldnt Polaris and Supernova (sans the shock) both do neutril damage to Jellies making Polaris superior damage on 2 turret types and neutral on one?

Or are normal and neutral damage different values? Im kinda new ^_^

~Luke

@Lukehandkooler
Kind of what Novium said, normal damage is essentially neutral damage to every type, but the gun's overall damage is about 10% more than the Polaris (at least 10% from the testing I did) so it will do more damage to everything that the Polaris isn't "super effective" against.

So, I got myself a Radiant Pulsar.

After using it for a while, I've concluded that it is awesome. Even at 4*, it shuts up turrets even in FSC. It does more damage to Silkwings, Gremlins, and slimes, all of which is really nice pretty often (especially against Silkwings). I think it even has more knockback than Gigawatt, which I've never seen mentioned. Best of all, it will never ever shock and prevent knockback, screwing you over or at the very least wasting your time.

As a sidearm, it's quite a good weapon for a gunner in my opinion.

@Talonzero
I do believe the Plague helps out the party if everyone else is using a Blitz and you keep him poisoned constantly by a bit, but that's not really good enough to really crave having it instead of the Blitz. (Blitz charge vs D23 zombies: 115, pois = 137. Plague: 72, pois= 81 meaning 2 blitz + plague will do 355 poisoned vs 3 blitz [no poison] being 345. Based on a friend's stats.) So it does indeed benefit. I guess if you maybe have trouble dealing with silkwings in combination with beasts you could get the poison another benefit, but again, not worth the pretty big damage loss.

But my biggest gripe with the gun is that you will need an Ultra damage bonus vs fiend and have it already poisoned to be able to 1 charge kill trojans with a party of 4. (This irks me because I'm pretty used to dealing with trojans a.s.a.p. before they mess the party up.)

@Glowing-Ember
When I used the Supernova in the test server it felt like the exact same knockback as the Polaris, it doesn't have to deal with the shock screwing the knockback up though. I'm deciding if I want to get the Supernova or the Valiance for a good normal gun, the Supernova will definitively come in handy for Vana's mask phases. I'm most likely going to get the Valiance because of it's point-blank+guaranteed knockback along with fast enough bullets to deal with any enemy.

What happened to the first gunslinger?

My friend has a supernova, he is making a polaris since he liked my damage vs vana more. Knockback is the same as the polaris.

The only reason to get a supernova is for gremlins, imo. This isn't a small reason though, since it makes it a ton more easier. They backwards dodge means they get pushed into a wall more quickly in danger rooms and arenas, which means the expanded bullets will just eat them up.

---
The valiance is surprisingly good, it was my first 5* gun. After using all the other guns for so long, dusting it off and using it exclusively was pretty fun. Fiends were manageable with it. Even though they dodged, you could time it so you could land 3 shots and interrupt their attack.

I was only using it when I solo'd and it was fairly capable at taking down mobs within a reasonable number of shots. If you're in a party, you definitely won't be the "damage dealer" gunner you're used to.

Good point, I must have had a brain fart.

I really should have said:
"He liked the polaris because of the damage it did to slags and turrets, and the additional damage the supernova did against vana was only slightly more than the polaris. With the shock ticks, the damage difference is even less. Overall he felt he was at a disadvantage bringing a supernova into FSC."

Well true to the mediocre vs vana comment as BN is far better. But sometimes when the party is not so organize, I'm not good enough to only use the blitz with no one shivermisting. When that's the case, the polaris is good enough.

Ah, okay. Yeah, if you're on water duty it is better than Blitz.

Personally I really dislike the Polaris for FSC. Many of the rooms won't give you enough room to get the explosion, and if you do get the space to do it the knockback ruins your teammates' attacks. There are certain rooms where the explosion helps out, and you can use the polaris to break the spiked wheel launchers where a lot of weapons can't, but because of how well the alchemer charges can get that full ricochet damage in most of the levels, I don't feel it's worth it. It is helpful for containment and other knockback situations though.
I would say the shock damage is a benefit, but the knockback spreads out all of the mobs so they don't even get that multiplied damage when shocking eachother like the Storm driver can do.

So me and my friends love arenas and danger rooms.
I want to go full gun, but kiting +bombs just looks too good, it's how my friends pull through when we are about to wipe.

If i want to use guns in a situation where my friends are kiting and bombing, What would you suggest for a 2 weapon load out? A 3 weapon load out?
I'm thinking poison, to assist with the healers: but which one? And if It's a poison arena I'm thinking Fire for the Dmg, but which one?

And for a gun to always bring along when playing in general, how do the Callahan and Iron slug compare? interrupting wolvers/healers seems really worth having. Would a silversix/argent peacemaker or a valiance be a good "most of the time" gun?

A question myself.
Is there a strategy to get the Alchemer charges to always get stuck inside the enemy?
I'm really loving my Prisma driver, and it does decent damage even when it doesn't get stuck.
But when it does.. oh I love you prisma. Insane damage.
So any strategies to put the alchemer charge into the enemy always? Or is it pure luck?

Cheers,

~W

@Stale-Cheeto
Overall, I would say the Biohazard. The charge attack is amazing against jellies and the poison definitely helps to deal with gremlin menders around. I do feel that the Umbra is a lot easier to deal with Gremlins than the Biohazard since the shots are way faster, but since gremlins tend to dodge straight backward, you can still use the biohazard when you learn how much you need to lead your shots with the slow bullets. Also, the Biohazard can kill a T3 gremlin mender in 3 normal shots (1 clip) with medium damage bonus :)
And yes, for PVP the Umbra wins hands down, though I have been using the Biohazard in combo with the shivermist. If you manage to freeze a guy you can easily stack up 2-3 charges and 1 shot kill the guy before the ice breaks.

@Torquinia
Kiting is not just a bomb trait. It's one of the most important things to learn as a gunner since you can really make use of being able to attack from a range. I do believe there are guns that really excel at using while kiting, Biohazard for Shadow damage, Storm Driver for elemental damage, and Callahan for pierce (though I'm starting to get used to kiting with a needle, but it's a lot harder and more risky by far.). You can choose any 2 of them if you're looking for a 2 weapon loadout, but generally you should invest in another slot so you can deal with any situation to the fullest.
The only two guns that inflict fire are the Firotech and Pepperbox lines, and when you need to kite the firotech allows you to shoot and move at the same time so pick that one.
As for a gun you may take with you all the time, the Valiance has been my favorite lately. The knockback can save you in a pinch and the bullets move quick enough to hit the dodgy mobs.

@Rangerwill
I do believe luck plays a big role in getting the "perfect charge shot" with the alchemers. I feel that the enemies that are moving toward the shot, and when you shoot a bit off-center gives the biggest chance for one. Though to play it safe I will usually just aim more off to the right or left to the point that the large charge shot will hit, along with the 2 regular shots that come out afterward. I do find it weird that you will get this perfect charge shot to land almost all the time when shooting it at gun puppies, I'm not really sure if it's because they turn while getting hit or something else but just shoot a little off-center and you will see a lot of 1-chargeshot-kills against them. It also can be when shooting at an angle instead of head-on, it seems very random to me.
You're just going to have to experiment with what you feel works, because it may just be pure luck that it happens in certain situations.

Thanks, a couple of my charge shots have been a bit off from the middle of the monster and then it does the miracle shot.
So perhaps a little to the left or right, and it is strange against gun puppies.. they are one of my favorite monsters now. :D
Anyway, I'm loving my Prisma and thanks for the advice. Can't wait to turn it into a Nova!

Cheers,

~W

@sypsy: how much ctr and asi UV are you planning on investing? i believe each level of ctr only decreases charging time by 200ms (barely noticable if at all...).

@snowprism: the reason why gunslings don't recommend the antigua lines is because they are split damage. thus, their damage output is a lot lower than other guns that fits the same damage categories.
the magnus line and the needle shot line are pretty much your only good piercing guns. both are excellent (though once you learn how to use the needle shot line, it'll be much better than the magnus line). i'd say make both to 5*. and also callahan's interruption doesn't always occur in T3...
and i would say there is no one main handgun for a gunslinger. you need at least 3 different guns, 1 elemental, 1 shadow and 1 piercing.

@Rangerwill I say prisma for alchemers. It deals a ton of damage.

yea i mean against alpha wolvers. it's just that snowprism seem to think it'll interrupt everything. I've had normal wolvers not getting interrupted when i hit them with my callahan, no interuption animation or anything. could be a lag thing though

@Sypsy
On drivers I used to believe that ASI was always the way to go, since I never really though the Alchemer charges were any decent. Though lately I've definitely been using the charges whenever there are more than one enemy, it's definitely more effective with well-placed charged shots than trying to rely on the ricochet to work. On alchemers specifically, I barely notice ASI and CTR is quite noticeable once you start using it constantly.

@Snowprism
There isn't really a "main weapon" when being a gunslinger. Since the majority of guns will do pure damage, this usually means you will be wanting to pick 3 guns to deal with every type of enemy to the fullest advantage.
Autoguns are definitely not a bad choice, Needle shots specifically are great for Trojans & Vanaduke in FSC, and they are great against wolvers as shown by Abathur here. (at around the 2 minute mark.) Though, when using the blitz needle you need to be extremely careful with the charge shots against alpha wolvers, if you miss or they get in range of you, expect pretty big damage to come your way. I also have a very difficult time with Devilites and Greavers. Devilites tend to spam range attacks with a short attack indication so you don't really have the ability to charge up (or have enough time to use the charge safely), and Greavers won't give you any breathing room at all, even with max asi and just shooting 1 burst of the blitz then shielding, they give me a hard time without my Callahan.
Antiguas are a no-go for dedicated gunslingers, given their split damage they won't give the most benefit compared to the pure types. If there is indeed a patch to give them their pure types as well as damage bonuses as Nick is contemplating with in this thread, they may be an option. But until then I would stray from them.
For the Callahan line, the recoil may be dreadful, but it's going to be reliable to do the job in killing things that are weak to pierce. Like I mentioned above, it's going to be your best bet against devilites and greavers because of the safety of shooting and shielding, while giving decent damage and interrupting attacks or knocking down wolvers without losing all momentum. Here is the method you should be using shown generously for viewing pleasure by Zyanthia in this video.
Now as for the knockdown, in stratums 1-5 (depth 1 to 22) you will be able to knockdown wolvers with one Callahan bullet, also interrupting Chromalisks and Devilites per shot. in stratum 6 (depth 24+) most of the time the Wolvers will be able to take 1 shot, but will get knocked down by the second shot that hits them. To my knowledge it seems that they will get interrupted after taking a certain amount of damage, since even a Sentenza will knock a wolver down after 5-6 shots, and that the Blitz Needle's charge attack will fairly guarantee a knockdown on them every time. This could vary depending on how many people are in a party because of the altering health levels, but it seems to work this way the majority of the time.

all credit for the videos go to each of their specified youtube channel owners

supernova or polaris and why

Give us some more info. I.e Are you full gunner? How many weapon slots do you use, will the gun be for utility or primary elemental damage? Whats your loadout look like?

Quoted from Dirty-Harry himself, you ought to just look up. Someone asked the same exact question.
Dirty-Harry said:
"Overall, I would say the Biohazard. The charge attack is amazing against jellies and the poison definitely helps to deal with gremlin menders around. I do feel that the Umbra is a lot easier to deal with Gremlins than the Biohazard since the shots are way faster, but since gremlins tend to dodge straight backward, you can still use the biohazard when you learn how much you need to lead your shots with the slow bullets. Also, the Biohazard can kill a T3 gremlin mender in 3 normal shots (1 clip) with medium damage bonus :)
And yes, for PVP the Umbra wins hands down, though I have been using the Biohazard in combo with the shivermist. If you manage to freeze a guy you can easily stack up 2-3 charges and 1 shot kill the guy before the ice breaks."

@Rangerwill
I do believe this gives the guns a great buff to both of the guns, the piercing damage was the only thing holding these guns back. For the AP, this makes this gun extremely useful for undead arenas since I find the AP a lot easier to hit Kats with than the Polaris, and the AP will be decent (depending on how much damage they give it) for killing howlitzers in the arena and against zombies you really can't go wrong with the gun in parties since it doesn't have the crazy knockback like the Polaris. Also it makes the gun viable for Constructs, and because of it's good range and mobility will be good for sniping out gun puppies.
The Sentenza did get a definite buff, but I'm not sure I'm going to actually start using it in PvE (depending on damage) since i'd rather use a Biohazard for Jellies, and an Umbra for gremlins in terms of damage. Gremlins tend to get hit by the first shot of the Sentenza and dodge the rest and either from lag or invincibility frames the other shots will look like it hits but not do any damage. This still is a decent choice for gremlin arenas and sniping out gremlin menders since the bombers don't place bombs while dodging and it's always nice be able to force them to dodge out of the middle or out of spikes for your teammates to deal with. I'll talk more about the guns once the patch (if it ever does) comes out.

@Arvandor
The biggest mistake is you starting gunslinging thinking you will be killing as fast as swords. This is definitely not the case, and while It may be a little underwhelming playing solo with guns and the damage may not even seem comparable to swords, OOO obviously expected people to be gunslingers since they put in the time to make 3 5* gunslinger sets. The main reason you play a gunslinger is for support and safety. Because of the range it's less likely you will get hit, and since your guns (excluding pulsar lines) don't knock back mobs too much, you will not have to compete with other people to do damage. So yes, the reason you'd really want a gun for will not be adequate for bringing a polaris or current AP as some fall back sidearms. It's a lot deeper than "I don't want to get close so I'll shoot".
As for getting trapped in the corner with alpha wolvers and turrets, that is a universal dilemma. Bombs and swordsmen alike will most likely not get out unless you decide on shield bumping, which I highly recommend you do in that situation. I'm not really sure how you managed to get trapped in the corner if you're kiting, and you should go for the turrets as a first priority since it's more likely you will get hit by them while on the move compared to the alpha wolvers.
Also, it's a nice change of pace rather than following the other players that are intent on doing the most damage. It's even more underwhelming having a cookiecutter setup with vog/skolver and swords than to do less damage using some other setup and having fun.

Ok, I am no master gunslinger or anything, but I've done every gate up to Vanaduke (Vanaduke with some help :/ can't solo him) and gold survivor and other T3 stuff solo but I think I know at least a bit since I've done it all with guns and nothing else.

"Yeah, see, that's part of the problem. Depending on the situation, guns are LESS safe. Callahan and Blitz freeze your movement, and only target one mob at a time. Biohazard's charge shot has you move really slow, and locks up your movement for a bit long. Drivers are nice and safe, but are underwhelming in power department. I find swords to be safer. I can run around at full speed while charging a volt edge attack, unleash it without worry of retaliation by anything that isn't a lumber, rinse and repeat ad nauseum. I've been taking MORE damage as a gunner than I ever did as a swordie."

Callahan freezes your movement, but is a simple 2-shot gun that has quick bullets that can hit dodging targets which is perfect for dodgers. Since it's 2 shot and not 6 shot, you can get a good bit done with 1 shot - shield cancel and move - 1 shot - shield cancel and move. This thing is the best (imo) for wolvers for many reasons and menders since you can knock em down every tier mender. So the loss of mobility is the big downside to Callahan but it is still, by far, my favorite gun because of this.

Blitz Needle has the same mobility as Callahan, but the whole point of this gun is being able to mash a monster's face in. It has definately the most damage of any gun assuming you compare on mobs with the same weaknesses, especially on its 15-hit charge where it increases bullet damage to add. On Vanaduke I hear if you max out damage it can do near 3k damage in one charge (I still prefer Polaris for mobility even). So that's that you've got a gun that doesn't thirst damage, but it isn't great for survival and hitting dodgers.

Biohazard I have never gotten since I heard it is not worth it (correct me if I am wrong) but I do not see much gunners with it so there might be an issue with it.

Drivers / Alchemers (imo) aren't at all underwhelming in power... with split bullets (most forget about these or something) you can shoot one shot and AoE damage up to 5-7 times in FSC on big groups of zombs for example. Then, add the fact that you shoot two not one, soup to 10-14 hits in two shots (assuming its a giant group). Since split bullets do 100% damage and can bounce, I find it not very under-whelming. A charged shot can clip every single split bullet and even bounce and clip within things like open-mouthed gun puppies and occasionally lumbers and slimes I have noticed, one shotting them at times.

For alchemers always remember: How powerful the split bullets are completely depends on how good you are at positioning its shots. When you have two mobs near eachother (as goes for any gun) always aim inbetween them. This doesn't only hit both of them at the same time, but will clip some of the split bullets. Remember that your split bullets will always split off at some angle of the shot to the left of your character. So, always hit a monster that is to the right of other monsters and always aim for the deep monster in pockets as such:

Edit: The whole spacing thing on a finished post thing messed it up. Just think of a U-shaped pocket of monsters. Hit the monster in the back / crest of the "U"

The monster that you want to try and hit is the monster all the way to the back in this case for split bullets, not all the way to the right. That is because, with split bullet bouncing, you are going to get many bounces between the two middle mobs and maybe even the mob closest. If that back mob dies or the mobs move and change position, you would change targets accordingly. Remember, you will only shoot at the monster to the right if he isn't close to the second mob or he is parallel to.

Your priority for alchemers / drivers should be: Pocket > Right > Middle > Direct (direct being something like a boss)

You taking more damage as a gunner is kind of biased and completely depends on your skill with both / your gear with both even.

"In most games, rangers either trade damage for safety, OR the other way around. In many MMOs, rangers are squishy but hit like trains. But there are also tanks and aggro tables and healers and whatever else. In SK, since getting hit is so detrimental, even swordsmen don't take a lot of damage unless they suck. So in this case you're trading... the ILLUSION of safety, and in many cases you're less safe, for... a lot less damage and a tiny bit of utility that a swordsman, or possibly bomber does better anyways? Sure it's fun, but it just doesn't seem to work out well with how the game is set up."

Taking damage as a gunner, you do not have more defenses as a swordsman (especially being fire resistance-less using gunner gear in FSC) the whole point is just to avoid damage. One thing that might help is to not always use that second bullet / sixth / third bullet - you won't be able to shield some attacks. If you feel safe, go ahead and use all bullets of the clip. Since you gun, you have some benefits that swordies dont have, like taking out gun puppies from a distance (assuming there isn't a ton of em which I will get to soon) and avoiding any monster's close melee attack.

As a gunner in random groups I definately find myself taking less damage (though this may be a skill thing) and sometimes i find myself needing to revive some swordsman / bombers that are goodish (decent, like myself, of course nothing stellar I'm aware there are swordies that can avoid everything out there) and sometimes I do indeed die before them, I think wether or not a gunner / swordsman out-lives the other is more of a skill thing ---- I will definately say, surviving as a gunner does feel much easier to me. If I use swords, I tend to just run around using charge attacks to live and it, honestly, sometimes feels underwhelming but that's just biased.

I do not believe it is an "Illusion" of safety, definately you are comparing two of different skill -- you may be a great swordsman, but hey, you might be one without any gunner gear this whole time just slappin in some 4* guns with vog to test it out. There are obvious safety benefits of guns that many cherish and cannot stand with swords. Flame orbs is a good example of an in-your-face example of guns being more safe than swords (and arguably doing more damage, I haven't seen a BTB used on his flame orb phases but I can guess it can't hit up to 3k damage). Anyways, there are other cases where guns are obviously safer than swords, no illusions.

"What I meant here, is the full ring of turrets. You can't kite, because there's WAAAY too much crossfire, so what you have to do is clear out the closest 4 to 8 turrets to a single corner, and give you a little breathing room to fight whatever else may be around, worst case it's alpha wolvers. When soloing as a swordie, you can run around one-comboing turrets, and/or canceling their attacks with your final swing, and because the turrets go down so quickly, you can move in, shield a hit, kill it, and move on, and this movement also often keeps you safe from the alphas. As a gunner, doing this you're likely to get your shield broken, and it's just really hard to take the turrets down with other monsters after you exactly because things die so slowly, and you have no option for breaking attacks. As a swordie, if you're in a bad spot and an alpha starts up his 3 bite attack, you can start swinging at his face, and the 2nd hit of DA/GF or the 3rd hit of a brandish/BTB/Levi etc will cancel the attack. Gunners don't have that option.

Edit: I had a thought. I really like the mechanisms for skipping out on reloading, and how it works, the problem is that there's no incentive to ever do anything besides this. I think the last round in any given clip should do increased damage and interrupt attacks, just like swords do. It would make gunners even better for support, and with the pain of reload times, I don't see it breaking anything either"

I kind of agree and can see how a sword would prove more useful in a giant ring of turrets in an arena or a gun puppy hard room. But, when there is less than that many gun puppies even in the later part of those rooms itself, guns become much easier for turrets, and, it is usually my job to take those amounts of gun puppies out while my swordies worry about other things.

I am often using my entire clip when I know I won't get hit. If you are say, kiting jellies far away, you don't exactly need to use one bullet and run over and over - that is just a waste of damage. If the last shot in clips did do more damage, that'd be sweet as well as the interruption mechanics but those itself tend to be in every single bullet fired (polaris cancels gun puppy attacks on every bullet, callahan knocks down menders on every bullet).

I'd like it official. Is it PROVEN that the Prismatech's damage is greater than the Firotech's plus its Fire damage (making the Prismatech the better weapon in most cases)? If it's true that the Prismatech line does more damage, the Firotech line would be essentially useless since dealing a high amount of damage to a target right away is preferred over having a chance to deal the same amount of damage (or less) to a target over time. If the Firotech line indeed does more with its Fire damage than the Prismatech's, then both would be decent Handguns with the Firotech slightly better for long-term battles and the Prismatech slightly better for short-term battles.