So, I've read all the pertaining threads and the patch notes, but seems like this wasn't addressed anywhere. So, these paid, unlockable Expansion Missions will be paid with CE, or will they require a separate purchase much like the Elevator Passes? Does anyone have any info on this? Nick?
I'm asking this because I made the mistake of associating my account with Steam, and unknowingly bringing a whole bunch of issues when making purchases when being forced to use Steam Wallet.
Whoops. Missed that bit. Thank you!
And now, I know I'd suck as a proofreader.
Expansion Missions are unlocked with purchase. The preview you quoted is out of date and I have edited it to reflect the more recent patch notes:
Since, we will have to pay with real money for expansion missions, will those elevators be free from CE cost?
Aww..
Looks like the first crimson mission will be p2p content now.
@Asukalanforum
I'd assume not, since they can be run an unlimited amount of times. They'd be a perfectly free (after the initial purchase) source of crowns/heat, otherwise.
WHAT? Purchase, do you mean real money and not CE???
:/ Why are you now backing off??? That is a true money wall if you do indeed pretend to do that, please reconsider/rephrase that or you are going to scare many people off with that statement.
If not, hey, why don't you just turn the game pay to play? If all new content is going to be pay to play (or time bleeding for f2p like Shadow Lair keys) do so, because all that we got for missions was a "long tutorial mode" and just a couple of missions that weren't running Clockwork levels (and by that I mean Blades of the Fallen and the 3 or so factory missions).
Yeah, seems I got to chill a bit. Oh, yeah, as you developers seem to be reading this topic: Please get those "ask you a 3 or 4 star weapon" out of the way if you pretend that all of us have a chance to get those "promised rewards" for the prestige points we have. Or is that also a pay to play player luxury?
And yep, now I shall go take some fresh air for a while. It may feel good instead of thinking this game is turning into such a pay to play trap since a few months ago.
Stern, I believe it is one of those pay once to unlock. Pay to be able to access, but going down the floor will probably still cost money. Unlike SL, where you pay to access each time.
before getting all het up about it, hmm?
They cost money. Real money. Unattainable for f2p players. Don't you think it is enough?
And yeah, refreshed already. Can't wait for the playerbase response. Also, I got to make the Spanish topic about this... they are going to "love" these news.
@Nick, if I purchase expansion mission will I have ability to invite friends, who haven't purchased given expansion mission?
Well, one question then, honest answer please - will only the leader need to have the expansion mission unlocked or will the whole party have to?
EDIT: oops, ninja'd, forgot to hit the post button few mins ago
Hahahaha. Of course. I have been saving my CE for a while now to be able to afford the expansion missions, and POOF time and money wasted. Great. It would seem to me that letting missions be unlocked with energy would still benefit OOO because that energy was purchased in the first place, but those profits are in the past, and these profits are right now! OOO has no reason to try to cut down on the CE floating around out there, because they don't benefit from having a smaller amount of outstanding CE.
Oh well. Way to kill the only thing I was looking forward to, Nick. I will probably still buy it, despite my disgust at myself for doing so, and that is what matters, right?
Edit: http://pressthebuttons.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452033569e20120a545f6cd970c-pi
If you unlock them, could you invite other friends to play the missions with you if they have not unlocked? Furthermore, could you "gift" expansions to your friends?
Jeez, I figured they were gonna cost a ton of CE to get into and work kind of like DLC, but making it purchase only and EXACTLY like DLC? Kinda undermines one of the great things about this game; everything is F2P if you got the patience for it. If this happens, I can no longer tell people that. Since it's a major point I use in promoting this game, it's quite a loss.
Also, why do this? *Any* CE used, no matter it's application, results in a profit for you guys. There's less CE around, crown cost for it goes up, and incentivizes buying it from you guys. The appropriate amount of CE spent on these things would bring in the same amount of profit for you guys and the added drain would keep demand for CE up, which is the primary way you guys make money. What the hell?
I'm severely disappointed.
So now we will have actual game content (aka stuff that isn't just for show) locked away from free players? A shame as one thing I really liked about Spiral Knights is that everything bar a few cosmetic things was available to F2P with enough time put in. Sure, somebody had to put the cash in at some point, but it didn't have to be the F2P player.
wow... seriously? ive been looking forward to it, so much even that i got an elevator pass to save up some CE to unlock the missions, but now its only unlocked by purchasing?
Be serious! No longer a F2P game!
And like the post above, seriously disappointed.
-Mino
I am not adverse to spending money on SK, as most of you know. I have the good fortune of a good paying job, and SK being the only game that I play these days. I will be one of those who can purchase the mission packs. That being said, it is disappointing that Three Rings would ignore their free players like this. I have stood up for OOO countless times when people accuse them of greed, I have disagreed with people that the game was pay to win, because I know it is possible for people to not drop a dime, and still be very succesfull. I have been a big fan of the marketing, of the promos and everything else. I have spent my money happily in this game, knowing that if i wanted to, I could also enjoy this game without using paypal.
No more, apparently. OOO, this goes against your Free to play model, and reeks of greed. Why not allow people who are saving their crowns and CE to purchase the missions that way? This doesn't make sense to me, and will alienate players as well. I call for an alternative method of access to the Expansion missions, one that is equally fair to free to players.
*EDIT: Pursuant to Njthug and Asuka's posts about how vague the word purchase is, I will withold judgement until the release of said missions.
*EDIT2: Nick has specified that players will be able to acquire these expansion packs by steam trade. It's a start, but this means F2Players are going to pay a premium for content like this, if they choose to remain free to play.
man, when i first read the mission preview, i thought this would be really cool
guess OOO is doing what companies are made to do.........MONEH~~
Welp, looks like yet another chunk of game content for me to throw in the dustbin next to the shadow lairs. Nick, I am disappoint.
Nick, please tell me that this is Sega speaking through you.
Since the first mention of Expansion Missions in mission preview I always though they are purchasable with real money, not CE. Actually I was a bit surprised nobody's complaining about it yet.
As long as there will be no restrictions in invites/joining Expansion Missions, I'm ok with they being purchased the way energy packs/promo packs are atm.
If you read carefully the first 4 posts in this thread you will know why noone complained.
i always wonder how much money people can spend on a game........
Its funny since Ce is still purchasable in the game with crowns if you really want to do the missions grind until you can purchase it. If your lazy to grind and put in the effort you have option B which is buying Ce with real money, and if you do feel like disagreeing me I guess you can use option C which is being greedy.
what are you talking about?
we are complaining that the missions are only available through real money purchase
no one will complain if it was unlock-able with CE
That is why (s)he is saying that "option C is being greedy". That it is the joke, I think.
Expansion Missions
Expansion Missions are bonus missions that can be unlocked with purchase. Expansion Missions, like Rank Missions, feature set rewards and can be played as often as you like once unlocked. Some expansion missions are in fact a ‘pack’ of missions and provide you with a version for different tiers that feature unique rewards.
^
Purchase --- is very vague it could be a purchase as in a Ce Purchase (Not by buying Ce or a special pack), but more so buying the mission with Ce (Like Shadow Keys work you can purchase a shadow key with ce). I don't think we should jump to conclusions early...when the update comes out and if its real $$$ only then feel free to yell at Three Rings, but still think the word purchase is vague since its not clear to me personally, if purchase means real money purchase or an in-game purchase using Crowns or Ce.
Paweu said:
"Expansion Missions
Expansion Missions are bonus missions that can be unlocked with energy. Expansion Missions, like Rank Missions, feature set rewards and can be played as often as you like once unlocked. Some expansion missions are in fact a ‘pack’ of missions and provide you with a version for different tiers that feature unique rewards."
And Nick replied:
"Expansion Missions are unlocked with purchase. The preview you quoted is out of date and I have edited it to reflect the more recent patch notes:"
Here's the current content that's unavailable for free players:
- Static Flash, a 1* bomb
- Green Ward, a 1* shield
- Plasmatech Mask, a costume item
- Plasmatech Suit, a costume item
- Elevator Passes
Shadow Lairs may seem expensive, but if you split the key cost between four people, its only 450 CE per run, and possibly less if you buy the key from other players instead of from Boost.
From the Spiral Knights "About" page:
"Free to Play!
Spiral Knights is free to play, no subscription is required to enjoy everything the game has to offer." [ed: emphasis]
As far as I know, this F2P model is one of the features of the game that convinced many people to start playing SK. You can pay if you want to craft items faster, or run more levels per day, but you don't have to.
Hey, Did you read posts before? NICK change it TO purchase. When he posted that annoucment FIRST TIME it pointed mostly that it will be unlocked with CE.
The "PURCHASE" word was added only RECENTLY. Its like, ooo saw "look players like missions" and then "great, lets milk them out of every $$, make them $$$ only"
Guess we showed our joy of mission too much. OOO saw that and found oppurtunity to milk players even more.
We were too open with celebrating missions, showing how we love them, if we didnt show OOO we like them, maybe they wouldnt do it, since they would be not sure if ppl will like it, but since forum is full of "omg i love missions" they took a chance and now changed it to "PURCHASE" and stated it will be unlocked with real $$$
Great, lesson to learn? When new update will come, dont even post on forum you like it, remain silent so OOO will be unsure if ppl like it or not, if they dont know we like it, they wont risk making next part playable/unlockable only with $$$ money.
"I don't think we should jump to conclusions early...." If it will be already implemented, they will never romove it, and all rage will be pointless (unless it will be me, my rage is always justified). We must stand up before they do it, show how we feel about it, we cant wait, we must prevent!
I think what Njthug is trying to say is that it says purchase, not "purchase with out of game currency." As I think Njthug has rightly pointed out, you can "purchase" many things with CE, with cr, and with dollars. That post does not say ANYTHING about having it only available with purchase of money, and while it kind of does seem that way considering that they changed it from unlock with energy, it by no means is the nail in the coffin. I'm gonna hold out until Nick clarifies or the actual missions come out before I throw around judgement. If it is pay (with out of game currency) to enter, I will be sorely upset, but lets not leap to conclusions.
And @Asukalanforum
Have you read the forums lately? There's been a lot of hate going on about the mission system, it has not exactly been all OOO's praises. In fact, I would say the vast majority of threads are hacking on one or another aspect of the missions system, or just discussing mechanics, not praising it. Whether some of the criticisms are warranted or not is another discussion, but lets just all not be too hasty to point fingers just yet.
Couple of days ago I was discussing with guild mate about how much Expansion Missions will cost and she said she would purchase it only if it would be no more then [this and this] $.
So if we could discuss this issue on weekend it's obvious that info in mission overview/preview could be read in this way even before today's edit.
As a somewhat new player who has been playing spiral knights for a few months now, I am severely disappointed in OOO for doing this. I respected the business model OOO took regarding this game, so I've been happily playing and spending money on it, but this concept that you can only buy expansion missions with real money stinks like Activision or EA. I hope OOO doesn't go down this route. This is a pretty major blow and if it keeps up then I would not want to play the game anymore.
Woah Woah Woah is it from Money----- to get expansion like buying with credit kard :D or Ce---- to buy the expansion
I don't want to jump to conclusions but if the only way to unlock these missions is with a cash purchase i would be massively disapointed. I like this game because it's free to play and i have happily supported that model with cash purchases. Now i feel like im being told i must buy this or i dont get to play no more unless i want to play the old content for the millionth time.
Regarding the required purchase: Expansion Missions are in every our version of a typical expansion pack or DLC. It is content that available outside of the base game that expands upon the base experience. This is a common convention in *many* games, even mmos.
Additionally, structuring it in this fashion allows us to gain a more prominent presence on Steam, which is a very important part of our business.
Future Spiral Knights content will consist of free updates that we've seen in the past as well as the release of Expansion Missions. We're very happy that even when we have created content that on the surface is acquired via purchase, such as dragon wings, free players have been able to acquire them as well via trades and the Auction House. Expansion Missions represent a new model different from what we have done in the past, but one that can live alongside our existing free content updates.
It may be fine from an objective perspective to think OOO can do both free and paid content, but free players will always feel they are getting the short end of the stick. After all, it takes time to construct expansion missions. Time that is taken away from free content. It is inevitable that you will have less free content if you do paid content as well.
Also, just because lots of MMOs do it doesn't make it right. That's why I even played SK in the first place--you guys don't do things most companies do.
No complaints here about the expansion model, but I do have a question regarding it: if one player purchases an expansion mission pack, will that player be able to invite his or her friends along on those expansion missions without those friends also purchasing the pack? That is to say, will it be necessary for every knight wishing to engage in an expansion mission to purchase the pack, or just one? If the latter, will the freeloading knights get completion credit and rank/prestige points for completing the expansion missions?
Or is all this to be worked out at a later time?
Yechezkel - Only players that have purchased Expansion Missions will have access to them. You will be able to gift them to others via Steam and we are looking in to the possibility of doing the same with the official client as well.
Well, there goes your everything F2P status. Kinda disappointing, really, it was one of the shining qualities of the game. Admittedly, I know that its all business, but, well, you're just tarnishing your existing image by making it $$$ only. I have no qualms about the dragon wings, which are purely cosmetic items and have no impact on game-play, being earned only by $$$, but when you establish that wall, it becomes a deciding factor. This also sounds very much like what originally happened with the shadow keys, they started off as mostly P2P items, then changed into the current price of 1800 ce.
Besides, if you plan on releasing that new gremlin boss with its own set of tokens under this pay-only scheme, you're also offering game-changing items that ONLY P2P players will be able to get, save for the few wealthy F2P players that will be able to afford the usually outrageous AH price that the new armors will no doubt fall under. And that's saying if any of the P2P people are even willing to unbind the items so that they can be put up on AH.
All in all, its just a rather saddening turn of events.
guess no expansion missions for me. Purchase always meant real money, and this time is no different.
then again, im more exicted about FSC missions :D
Ha, so having DLC will give you presence in Steam? How does that work? Would that attract mad-hatters from TF2? So, you prefer to shatter your playerbase trust with this awful move by nulling your f2p CE<>Crowns model until now, instead of keeping it. And you say you are "very happy" of it, madness.
Also, I won't buy that "free updates with Expansion Missions" at all, you keep making accessory and energy promos and when you do free new content all we get is a long tutorial mode. What I expect from you now in the future is releasing Tier 3 missions and then you will begin spamming us with Expansion Missions and leaving f2p players empty-handed. Or you will create "new enemies" for the Clockworks.
From this day on, we won't be able to trust you. Or at least, me.
PD: Are you going to keep those items that are only in Energy Packs too as requirements for prestige missions? Feel free to ignore my question too if the answer is "yes".
I see, so no reason for me to hoard this CE like it's worth anything. Ok man, thanks for the heads up, now I can just convert all this CE to CR since I have no use for it. I look forward to the finished product.
@Aumir
Have you ever seen DLC content being sold at the steam store? It's basically a +1 to your IP, so when someone searches Spiral Knights in the Steam store you see more than one item of that IP.
Cryoworld, would it REALLY be so difficult for a F2P player to save up 2kCE or so to unlock the expansion? This isn't shutting the door on them, it's just making their road more difficult. If you want P2P content for free, you should be willing to earn it, via saving every last crown, making your own equipment, being wise with your mist energy, and putting in the time and effort necessary to progress.
You make it sound as if Expansion Missions are only for credit card warriors. The GM's have said nothing about Expansions being REAL MONEY ONLY purchases. It was made clear a while ago that they will be purchasable with CE, which is bought with real money, or EARNED in-game otherwise. So free players are not shut out, they just have to work a little harder.
I just hope you won't do anything silly like forcing ToS on people who will want to trade the DLC gifts through steam trade for CE, please reply on this as its important too - its an actual way for F2P to be able to unlock those.
I mean, when you receive a gift, you can pick to open it or to keep it in your inventory, so i'm talking about the second option and trading that.
That's the thing, you CANNOT buy the expansions with CE, they are buyable with REAL MONEY ONLY.
"Expansion Missions
Expansion Missions are bonus missions that can be unlocked with energy. Expansion Missions, like Rank Missions, feature set rewards and can be played as often as you like once unlocked. Some expansion missions are in fact a ‘pack’ of missions and provide you with a version for different tiers that feature unique rewards."
Source: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/42211