Then why don't make Energy Packs and such one of these things, with a discount by being only on Steam, instead of doing what they are now intending to do? Thanks for the explanation anyway, but I think there would be MUCH better ways to do that.
Expansion Mission packs unlockable with CE?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:43
#52
@Neodasus
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:44
#53
I'll also point out that
I'll also point out that since we fully support Steam Trading, as a Steam player you could trade your in-game loot for the DLC with someone who is willing to purchase it as a gift.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:45
#54
As a credit card warrior (IE
As a credit card warrior (IE a teenager/young adult with a job), this is kind of nice to be able to support OOO this way. I just hope that my money is going towards actual content. We SK players are a different breed you know, we just can't be satisfied by reskins and a rehash of content :)
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:45
#55
^What Nick said. Just trade
^What Nick said. Just trade your CE via Steam with someone who's willing to gift it to you. Put in a little extra to make it worth the incentive.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:46
#56
@Nick
That really helps, thanks!
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:47
#57
Well, now that's a different
Well, now that's a different story I suppose. It won't be so different from the crown and CE trade, there might be people looking to sell the DLC for the appropriate amount of crowns? Well, I don't like it but the new concept makes it acceptable enough I guess. I just hope all the paid content will only be expansion missions and not anything else.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:47
#58
And
And for the people who don't have Steam, how does that work?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:48
#59
@Nick
Of course this is only
@Nick
Of course this is only viable to Steam players. Those that do not use Steam cannot access DLC this way right?
I think if you're not using Steam for PC gaming anyway, there is something wrong. However, there needs to be some way to gift energy packs and DLC within Spiral Knights for those that do not use Steam.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:49
#60
Nick, will you guys be
Nick, will you guys be considering kong players for the expansion? As in, kreds for the expansion?
And will the expansion be multiple mission to be bought in separate packs, or one purchase for all future expansion missions?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:50
#61
As I said, we're looking in
As I said, we're looking in to the possibility of gifting things like Expansion Missions within the official client. No word on anything of that nature yet though.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:51
#62
If you haven't upgraded to
If you haven't upgraded to Steam, you should. There's absolutely no reason not to.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:53
#63
So would every expansion mission cost the same?
Watch the Core Expansion Mission equal Nick's yearly salary
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:54
#64
The Core isn't going to be an
The Core isn't going to be an Expansion Mission; it's going to be a general update accessible to everyone. It IS the end-game of the Cradle, after all.
The question is, what comes after the Core. A new planet, a new clockworks?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:54
#65
@Oakgear
No, you are forgetting the possible "Shadow Lair Expansion Mission" with Shadow Key requirement to play. At this rate, I kind of expect that.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:57
#66
Tammy there are people with
Tammy there are people with low end computers who would appreciate not having to open both steam and sk at the same time.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:01
#67
Most new boss content and
Most new boss content and eventually T4 will be expansion-exclusive (calling it). If you don't want to support quality development then don't play the game. OOO is the only dev left that actually gives a legitimate effort into making things unique for the playerbase (I'm looking at you Bioware), give them what they deserve guys
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:59
#68
I use steam but I understand
I use steam but I understand that some people do not, it'd be bad for them to be alienated with the steam trading. With this line of thinking, I support in-game trading. Now maybe go the extra mile and make them able to be traded? :)
Also, as a footnote, and despite my negative views towards the subject, I'd like to thank Nick for communicating with us, the player base. If you weren't there to address issues, we all would have been much more upset, me included.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:01
#69
at least they had the
at least they had the scruples to not release Crimson Hammer the day they released missions
do you know how insulting day 1 DLC is?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:01
#70
At least OOO listens to and
At least OOO listens to and responds to its player community. Bioware could learn from them. The Old Republic was and remains a huge flop because of this.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:03
#71
~
"If you don't want to support quality development then don't play the game"
All the energy that's on the game already came from soemone's wallet anyways.
Everytime a F2P guy spends CE, he's wasting someone else's money.
There was no need for this thing.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:06
#72
Chilling a little
Ok, why don't you do it like in some MMOs I have seen? I don't even know why I may be giving ideas now that they broke my game experience, but hey, it doesn't hurt:
- Make this as you intend, purchasable only through money, this would be an item that you would need to use to unlock those missions/packs. In the game I am refering to, they are "tickets".
- Let this item be tradable through AH and normal trade.
This way, you (OOO) get your DLC method and that Steam presence, and we, the f2p community, are able to purchase it with crowns. Can we now be all in peace?
PD: Gah, it double posted!
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:08
#73
Aumirs idea is a good one.
Aumirs idea is a good one.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:14
#74
hum. I'm not on Steam. Guess
hum. I'm not on Steam. Guess I'm gonna have to pull the card out, or quit. Probably quit.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:18
#75
Steam DLC
Based on what Nick has said I'd guess the reason OOO wants to make it paid DLC is so that it appears on Steam's new releases (and possibly even gets a featured items tab). It would also cause a news item to appear for everyone who 'owns' the game on Steam, which I'd guess counts as everyone.
That being said it does seem like in exchange for this short-lived advertisement OOO is discarding one of the key selling points of the game, that virtually everything is obtainable within the game without spending money. As a matter of interest, is it possible to have a Steam DLC product which is also available within the game, or would doing so violate Steam's terms? If it were then this would seem a much more sensible compromise than making it cash only.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:22
#76
Quitting because you actually
Quitting because you actually have to pay money for an expansion, like almost every other MMO on the market? What a community.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:25
#77
well...
i mean im fine with the MUST BUY WITH $$$ aspect .... as long as these expansion missions arent rhings that pertain to the real story of SK, for example ... if "survive the fiery blazes obstacle course T3 mission - reward volcanic iron" it would be fine
but things like .. King Tinkinzar being restricted to Purchase with money ... that would be just ... stupid :/ ... so i hope that isnt the cae, otherwise its fine, and a good way to get crafting materials for crafting instead of spending sparks
Edit: noooo Tengu!!! dun quit! i never even met you QQ
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:23
#78
If they wanted to get extra
If they wanted to get extra advertising on steam they could just do costume item dlc's or accessory packs there's no reason playable content is the only thing that can be put on the steam store.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:23
#79
Hmmm
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I would say that if what Nick is talking about is implemented, the trading system on the stand alone client, I would feel MUCH better about this. The fact that they are giftable essentially makes them available for F2P players on steam, and a system for the stand alone client would get the rest of F2P players too.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:38
#80
Disregarding customer satisfaction like a BOSS
>Entire game is one giant microtransaction
>Add DLC anyway
Also inb4 the new Tier 3 boss costs $$$ in an Expansion Mission.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:39
#81
@Nick I get where you're
@Nick I get where you're coming from, I really do. More purchasables means more opportunities for steam promos which means more exposure to new players. I know you want this game to succeed, and I know you're looking for every opportunity to make that happen. I understand that.
However, I want to make one thing perfectly clear: There is literally nothing that will make me completely overlook a "free" game on Steam, or the App Store, or (if I had an android device) the Marketplace, faster than seeing a huge laundry list of purchasable content. (well, ok, seeing "third party DRM" might edge it out, but just barely) The only time it won't immediately drive me away is if the top DLC list is only cosmetic stuff like "add fluffy pink bunny ears to your avatar for 99¢". Seeing actual game content as purchases doesn't say to me "this game is free and enjoyable as-is, plus as a bonus there's extra stuff you might be interested in purchasing later", it says to me "this is the second coming of crippled shareware demos". I'm old enough to remember those days, and wise enough to never, ever go back.
Now I make no secret about the fact that I've purchased an elevator pass, multiple times even. I even recommend it to other people. However, the only reason I spent any money at all on SK was specifically and explicitly because I didn't have to. If SK starts throwing up genuine pay walls then, well, my credit card is going to stay safely in my wallet. In fact, if the paywalled content is significant enough I'll honestly probably just stop playing.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:56
#82
As long as the expansions are
As long as the expansions are reasonably priced I see no issue with this, it'd even be easier for f2p players to access than Shadow Lairs currently are. Although it will depend entirely on how much they cost.
OOO is the only dev left that actually gives a legitimate effort into making things unique for the playerbase
Either you're referring within some specific restrictions you didn't clarify, or you know of very, very few developers.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:01
#83
@ Nick
Nick, another option might be to include both options of direct-pay and CE pay for the Expansion content, similar to the Sonic promotion.
Sega could allow the Expansions for CE at a high cost but buying direct would be much cheaper.
The CE cost could be anywhere from 2x - 4x the equivalent direct-pay cost.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:06
#84
@EchoezI've been playing
@Echoez
I've been playing video games for almost 17 years now (not proud). I've seen Nintendo EAD go down the drain, Blizzard, Bioware...almost everything is rehashed or "PRESS X TO WIN"
This is the only quality WESTERN MMO that is NOT a WoW clone (GW2 more like GW + Expansion)
They deserve it
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:33
#85
http://tinyurl.com/2vhjrb9
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:37
#86
..........
Paying for premium content is fine, everyone does that. Its acceptable.
The reason why many people will quit is because there is no new FREE content.
I mean, sure the missions are good, but they are just the same as running clockworks, with an instant boost. Same levels with different name, same objective to kill everything in sight, and even same monsters (although this can be looked over cause of 2-3 new monster every other month or so).
Pretty much everything in this game costs CE. And how do you get CE? you pay. And the amount of CE that you get vs the amount you need to spend is not looking very pretty. 99% of the CE that exists in the game is player bought (unless OOO secretly puts CE in the market), with exception of free CE from OOO events.
Lets say that every CE that exists in the game is bought at the most worthy deal right now, which is either the Battle Pack or Starter Pack depending on your preference. That would amount to about 380CE/$. How much CE would you say have been used, spent and still exists in the game?
Lets say a typical 5* F2P player (il be taking myself as an example) earns a total of 10kCE over the course of 10 months (about how much I made from grinding clockworks alone, with an additional 15kce from ragecrafts, but lets not factor that in cause not everyone is lucky enough that way). I, myself have "purchased" $26.32 worth of CE over the course of 10 months. Thats about $31.54 a year. A typical P2P probably spends 2-3 times this amount, and the extreme P2Ps going at 6-7 times, and even 10 times (you know who im talking about).
For a free game, I think they are doing pretty well.
now consider the player database, and do the math for OOO's annual income from CE purchase alone. Now add in some elevator passes, stupid people blasting CE revs (like that guy who spent........how much CE was it again? 10k?20k? on that haze only vana run), sheer amount of CE spent on accessories(O boy), Elevator costs, Shadow Lairs, Lockboxes (Which I think are rigged), etc, etc.
I think this "Free" game is slowly turning into a "Paid" game.
I think OOO can spare a few premium content here and there once in a while, especially if its new boss/maps.
o boy i spent 1 hr typing that..........doing my business essay on marketing ethics at the same time as the post.............I have no clue if what i wrote makes sense....
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:48
#87
For me it's really starting
For me it's really starting to get hard to justify staying with this game. This doesn't feel "f2p" any more, regular updates with this method would even be close to some sort of subscription... and it's not really "platform-independent" if you make steam even more important - being able to purchase those expansions with ingame currency is sort of an important feature, isn't it?
Will it at least be possible to buy the extensions without steam? Will they be in the energy store? Somehow it sounds to me, as if it will not at all be available for players that don't use steam (at least at first, maybe for a long time). Hope that's not true?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:56
#88
@Tammy The expansion missions
@Tammy The expansion missions are only available to p2p players. Nick said so in his post here.
As long as they don't make any real hardcore content p2p, I'm cool with this. Making something like a new boss and levels only available to p2p players would be a jab at players wallets though, and that would be just sad. So far, OOO has yet to disappoint me.....not that anyone cares.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:02
#89
@Slayzz
"Making something like a new boss and levels only available to p2p players would be a jab at players wallets though, and that would be just sad"
Thats exactly what the expansion missions are.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:10
#90
@Nick
I hope you know what you're doing... people aren't going to be happy with this. Please read what people are writing, and think it all over a bit before making any of this final. Remember what happened with shadow lairs, because its a lot harder to go back than it is to go forward.
But of course, you have more experience than I with this sort of thing. Carry on.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:16
#91
Nick, I have an important
Nick, I have an important question. Will there require multiple purchases, or is it just one purchase and you have access to Expansion missions forever?
I am extremely concerned that we are repeating the Shadow Keys. If you are, people won't take this lightly. Once you put your hand in fire, you don't put it there again and whatnot.
What were Shadow Keys? Giant middle finger even to paying players which had its sole purpose of destroying any sense of progression, keeps content away from them, and ruins the game itself regardless of the $$$ earned.
What are Expansion Missions? I would like to know, Nick. One time purchase? 50 purchases?
On the bright side of my wallet, it sounds like we can repeat a mission over and over with the purchase of it unlike the Shadow Keys so progression might not be harmed, and it may even be possible! This is exciting news to follow the Shadow Key update. Regardless, it is important to state how many times we will need to pay.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:31
#92
The-Rawrcake - Once you
The-Rawrcake - Once you unlock an Expansion Mission with purchase, you are free to play it as many times as you please, provided you pay for the usual elevator costs on each floor (an Elevator Pass however covers this cost just like any other content).
In the case of our first Expansion Mission, purchasing it will actually unlock three different versions (difficulties) of it- one for each tier and each with specific rewards.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:39
#93
so.......
its sort of like shadow keys, where you need to buy every new mission, except you can play that level over and over again...........
so Nick, can players with access to these lvls invite others who dont have access?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:42
#94
@Alynn
No, you can't. It is the contrary of a Shadow Key, where you only need one for all the party to go in... instead, each person will need to purchase the pack. With real money.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:46
#95
Does that mean that at this
Does that mean that at this point it is not clear yet if it will be possible to somehow get / play the expansion missions without binding the account to steam?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:46
#96
right
missed the post where Nick said that.....
how disappointing, although not very surprising :(
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:48
#97
I think what Nick means is
You cant trade the expansion mission to others without steam but you can still purchase it without steam. Making it unavailable to non-Steam users would be a really really stupid move imo.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:55
#98
Sry if that was unclear:
Sry if that was unclear: Noone said that. I'm just sort of paranoid because noone seems to have said the opposite yet, either... is anywhere clearly mentioned, that it'll be possible to get/play the expansions without steam? There's sort of an imaginary empty spot in the place where that statement should be in this thread here, which looks almost like an implicit: "We don't know yet, steam is making trouble" to me. :3
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 17:55
#99
well.........
All purchases are available directly off SpiralKnights whether you use Steam or not. There is no Steam-only purchase.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 18:06
#100
My (quiet) take.
I'm fine with their idea, and I'll agree with Nick that purchasable missions can work alongside the normal game.
Provided the content of the missions isn't so amazing and great that other players unable to pay for the game feel the need to pay up or get out.
My prediction is that the missions will be X-clockwork levels with new enemies or minibosses or hazards and a special reward to justify the purchase even further.
Maybe these missions will be used to 'preview' new content months in advance.
@Tammy
Expansion missions cannot be bought with CE.