Balancing, Branching, et cetera

All we want to do is eat your brains.
Just a little reminder. Only common enemies are included in these family rebalances. No mission-specific-enemy-that-only-really-shows-up-in-like-one-to-three-places-and-nowhere-else-ever enemies like Mortafires, Ghostmanes, Deadnaughts, Grimalkins; that makes this family all the more disappointing to rebalance because most members are being discriminated. Racism against the dead. Not all of them, just ones that only live (or die) in very specific areas.
Howlitzer
Zombie goast turrets. Unlike mechanical turrets, these ones have a very special ability in all tiers: once they die their head flies after you. In T1 the head simply goes forward whichever direction it was defeated. In T2 it tracks a little but has slow turning. In T3 it tracks and turns faster. The head also flies faster in higher tiers. Pretty great stuff. Other than that it acts like the normal turret but as part of the undead family instead of construct.
I got stuck already. Not too surprising for most of you, is this? We gave the robot turrets robotic stuff. What do we give zombie turrets? Zombie stuff? Do they try to bite you at close range? Do they get projectile interference like the robot ones? Tune in next time to find out! No one is going to get that reference.
- the Howlitzer can "eat" projectiles once every ~3 seconds then "spits" the projectile(s) with full control of which direction and when it fires (the regurgitated projectile behaves the same as whatever it ate, such as Pulsar bullets starting small then expanding and exploding; the regurgitated projectile deals 50% of the original damage but in pure shadow regardless of what damage type the original projectile was; the projectile has the same speed, range, area of effect, etc. of the original projectile; only one part of the projectile attack needs to be "eaten" for the Howlitzer to absorb it but each Howlitzer may only store one projectile attack at a time)
- the Howlitzer can "bite" nearby knights (about the same size attack as the first basic swing of a Calibur/Brandish), deals normal-shadow damage; cooldown of 10 seconds between bites
- the Howlitzer has a 20% chance of becoming a totem upon defeat but with only a 2 space radius and will destroy itself 20 seconds after appearing; the totem can be moved as a normal totem but may not be destroyed by any other means
Totems have very unique features. They can resurrect zombies. They can be moved by knights. They block movement like enemies but are invincible to Pulsar spamming. They are invincible to damage. I would count them as part of the family and make a rebalance for them but they are already amazing, just not common enough to be a significant threat. Even if I did make a rebalance for them it would probably just be to have more of them in maps which has nothing to do with giving the totem itself new things to do.
What else can I do here. I already wrote the zombie stuff so most of the fun has already happened.
- the Howlitzer can "eat" projectiles once every ~3 seconds then "spits" the projectile(s) with full control of which direction and when it fires (the regurgitated projectile behaves the same as whatever it ate, such as Pulsar bullets starting small then expanding and exploding; the regurgitated projectile deals 50% of the original damage but in pure shadow regardless of what damage type the original projectile was; the projectile has the same speed, range, area of effect, etc. of the original projectile; only one part of the projectile attack needs to be "eaten" for the Howlitzer to absorb it but each Howlitzer may store up to three projectile attacks at a time and may choose whether to use its normal projectile attack or to spit an absorbed attack and can choose which absorbed attack it wants to spit out)
- the Howlitzer can "bite" nearby knights (about the same size attack as the first basic swing of a Calibur/Brandish), deals normal-shadow damage; cooldown of 5 seconds between bites
- the Howlitzer has a 40% chance of becoming a totem upon defeat but with only a 2 space radius and will destroy itself 30 seconds after appearing; the totem can be moved as a normal totem but may not be destroyed by any other means
- the Howlitzer can howl in a cone area of effect (~2 space range, similar area of effect and duration as zombie breath) which pushes knights within the area of effect 2~3 spaces away from the Howlitzer
- the Howlitzer has a 25% chance upon death to place its skull which can be obtained by zombies which grants them +100%?/+5 bars resistance to the status "opposite" of their theme:
- if the zombie is fire theme they get freeze resist and vice versa
- if the zombie is shock theme they get poison resist and vice versa
- if the zombie is stun theme they will get +20%?/+1 bar resist to fire, shock, freeze, and poison
Only one Howlitzer skull may be worn by a zombie at a time and it counts as one "part" which you will read more about in the zombie stuff which you may have already scrolled down and read about before reading this sentence. Cheater.
Kat
You know how some people like cats and other people like dogs? There are also people who like Kats. One of their parents was a cat person. The other was a necrophiliac.
This might sound weird, or at least weirder than usual, but Kats are pretty good as they are. Not as close to balanced as Menders, but closer than zombies. Until you read about them below. Then wet yourself. Anyway, Kats. When I first saw these things I swore on the god of BLT sandwiches they were white sheets with holes cut in them with a purple balloon underneath. Put the phone down. No need to call the authorities yet.
- if the Kat is next to a knight (<1.5 spaces apart) it can "blanket" the knight; the Kat covers them and slows them to 70% movement speed and unable to perform any actions but become immune to damage (any status which has effects other than damage will still occur); the Kat can be knocked off by other knights with two attacks or will jump off on its own after up to 5 seconds (the Kat may not remain on the knight for more than 5 seconds at a time, 30 second cooldown before the Kat can blanket a knight again)
- the Kat can place a "litterbox" which is a circular area of effect (~2 space radius) which slows knights who try to walk through it by 20%, slows projectiles which enter the area of effect by 20%, sword swings by 20%, and bomb fuses by 20% (if the center is within the area of effect); the area of effect will dissipate once the Kat is killed, only one litterbox may be placed by each Kat and litterboxes may not be within 5 spaces of each other
- the Kat can "lick itself clean" to cure all statuses on itself or another Kat within ~2 spaces, cooldown of 20 seconds
Yes, I know a litterbox is not supposed to be circular. I also know not to headbutt people until they become pudding. Yet I do it anyway.
You know how I told you not to call the cops earlier? Well, funny story about that; I may have accidentally eaten them all. The cops. It was accidental, I assure you, but they looked so delicious covered in sprinkles and colorful frosting in circular sha- never mind, those were just donuts. You already called them? Liquids.
- if the Kat is next to a knight (<1.5 spaces apart) it can "blanket" the knight; the Kat covers them and slows them to 50% movement speed and unable to perform any actions but become immune to damage (any status which has effects other than damage will still occur); the Kat can be knocked off by other knights with two attacks or will jump off on its own after up to 8 seconds (the Kat may not remain on the knight for more than 8 seconds at a time, 20 second cooldown before the Kat can blanket a knight again)
- the Kat can place a "litterbox" which is a circular area of effect (~3 space radius) which slows knights who try to walk through it by 40%, slows projectiles which enter the area of effect by 40%, sword swings by 40%, and bomb fuses by 40% (if the center is within the area of effect); the area of effect will dissipate once the Kat is killed, only one litterbox may be placed by each Kat and litterboxes may not be within 5 spaces of each other
- the Kat can "lick itself clean" to cure all statuses on itself or another Kat within ~2 spaces, cooldown of 15 seconds, no cooldown when used on itself
Zombie
I had so many stol- I mean, inspired ideas from a skeleton-esque enemy in Wakfu for our zombies that I am typing this first but it comes last alphabetically so it looks like this one was done last. Shows how well I can control myself.
Zombies are one of those enemies who gains no new abilities by tier, but gets the generic resistances to knockback and interruption. Like everything else gets. Even when those other things also got new abilities. Sounds like someone got ripped off.
- if the zombie is killed by sword (whether it was by charge or basic attacks) it will randomly drop an arm, leg, or rib (33% chance for each, only one will drop per defeated zombie) which grants bonuses to any zombie who walks over and consumes/activates it for the rest of their life:
- leg gives +15% movement speed (up to +45% movement speed per zombie at a time)
- arm gives +7% attack speed and damage (up to +42% attack speed and damage per zombie at a time)
- rib gives +15% interruption and knockback resistance (up to +45% interruption and knockback resistance)
- if the zombie is killed by gun it will randomly drop a skull, pelvis, or hand which grants bonuses to any zombie who walks over and consumes/activates it for the rest of their life:
- skull gives +15%/+1.5 bars pierce defense (up to +60%/+6 bars pierce defense per zombie at a time)
- pelvis gives +10%/+1 bar element defense (up to +30%/+3 bars element defense per zombie at a time)
- hand gives +10%?/+1 bars resistance to fire, shock, freeze, and poison (up to +40%?/+4 bars resistance to fire, shock, freeze, and poison per zombie at a time)
- if the zombie is killed by bomb they have a 20% chance of resurrecting the upper body, 20% chance of resurrecting the lower body, or 60% chance of nothing happening (only once per zombie per life; if either the upper or lower body resurrects and gets killed within range of a totem they will not revive again, but if the zombie does not revive its upper or lower body and dies normally near a totem it will revive normally):
- if the upper body survives it creates a "Crawler" (no legs, crawls on its stomach; looks like a zombie without legs) which has 50% base movement speed (may be improved by obtaining legs from zombies killed by swords), 60% damage and attack speed (may be improved by obtaining arms from zombies killed by swords), 50% health of its previous form, but 50% more resistance to knockback and interruption of its previous form (may be improved by obtaining ribs from zombies killed by swords)
- if the lower body survives it creates "Crazy Legs"/"Just For Kicks" (no upper body, walks on its legs; looks like a normal zombie from the waist down) which has 125% movement speed (which can also be improved by legs), attacks only using the normal zombie swiping attack (but instead of swiping with its arm it tries to kick you, can be improved with arms for more attack speed and damage), 50% health of its previous form, but is 30% more vulnerable to knockback and interruption of its previous form (may be compensated with ribs)
These upgrade-item-body-part-things seem pretty overpowered in old Firestorm Citadel, right? Good. I should stop talking here and say they can wear an infinite amount of body parts for crazy high bonuses but that would be too evil, so instead each zombie can only wear up to four body parts but has no means to exchange or remove them unless they die. But being dead means being dead. If a zombie has body part upgrades, dies, but is revived again by a totem, it will not keep its body parts. Each zombie will only drop one body part ever and will not drop more if revived by a totem. When the zombie dies all equipped body parts will be destroyed and will not be returned for other zombies to pick up. No matter how hilarious that would be. Zombies trying to steal body parts from each other.
Not-so-funny note, only the part where the zombie can revive as its lower body was taken from Wakfu. Chafers, a skeletal enemy, have several turns after their defeat before they are removed from the battle during which their corpse/a pile of bones, clothes, and their skull take up one space; this pile has a countdown which decreases one every turn and one every time the pile is attacked, meaning you can use rapid attacks on it to remove it from battle sooner. Every turn the pile has a chance of resurrecting as the lower body of the Chafer which will run after you and kick you. It looks hilarious.
I think I may be having too much fun playing with dead bodies here. I even set up a little tea party and put them all in dresses and have been making voices for them for the past few minutes. Oh look, the guy with the happy needle is coming.
- if the zombie is killed by sword it will randomly drop an arm, leg, or rib (33% chance for each, only one will drop per defeated zombie) which grants bonuses to any zombie who walks over and consumes/activates it for the rest of their life:
- leg gives +20% movement speed (up to +60% movement speed per zombie at a time)
- arm gives +10% attack speed and damage (up to +50% attack speed and damage per zombie at a time)
- rib gives +20% interruption and knockback resistance (up to +60% interruption and knockback resistance)
- if the zombie is killed by gun it will randomly drop a skull, pelvis, or hand which grants bonuses to any zombie who walks over and consumes/activates it for the rest of their life:
- skull gives +25%/+2.5 bars pierce defense (up to +75%/+7.5 bars pierce defense per zombie at a time)
- pelvis gives +15%/+1.5 bar element defense (up to +45%/+4.5 bars element defense per zombie at a time)
- hand gives +15%?/+1.5 bars resistance to fire, shock, freeze, and poison (up to +45%?/+4.5 bars resistance to fire, shock, freeze, and poison per zombie at a time)
- if the zombie is killed by bomb they have a 40% chance of resurrecting the upper body, 40% chance of resurrecting the lower body, or 20% chance of nothing happening :
- if the upper body survives it creates a "Crawler" which has 70% base movement speed, 70% damage and attack speed, 75% health of its previous form, but 65% more resistance to knockback and interruption of its previous form
- if the lower body survives it creates "Crazy Legs"/"Just For Kicks" which has 150% movement speed, attacks only using the normal zombie swiping attack, 75% health of its previous form, but is 45% more vulnerable to knockback and interruption of its previous form
Unlike T2 zombies who can only wear four body parts at a time, T3 ones can wear up to six. If T1 were involved with any of this they could only wear two at a time. Patterns.

First, I forgot to include Kirby Mass Attack music for the Constructs. Off into space!
So. Undead. They're dead to me. Have some more Kirby Mass Attack music.
T2 Howlitzers... you either have Kirby's evil undead counterpart (a wannabe Kirby's evil undead counterpart), totem on death, or OW BAD DOG NO BITING! All of these are viable, though projectile regurgitation would be slightly counterproductive (would absolutely get in the way of bullet spamming) if it makes the Howlitzer stop attacking. If it can nom boolits and shoot boolits at once, though, then everyone's favorite (everyone's most despised) ex-Sentry might be really dangerous (might be slightly more dangerous)!
T3 options include the above at greater magnitude, Howl, or Drop Skull. All of these are viable, with Howl sounding nasty when combined with a Shocking Howlitzer, while Drop Skull helps out the Howlitzer's fellow zombies. Maybe, in addition to what it already does, it can make the affected zombie explode on death?
The next abilities are the Kat's meow! ...okay, that was lame. Blanket sounds obnoxious, and if Kats can keep using Blanket one after the other in immediate succession, they could stun-lock (will definitely stun-lock) in large mobs. Still, I'm more afraid of Litterbox. Lick Clean seems to be a way of counteracting their weakness to VT (it destroys Kats) and Shiver (it also destroys Kats).
Finally, the Zombies on your lawn. All the dead body parts in the battle rooms will make FSC tougher than it was... good. Gooooood. I like every one of the effects. Can you add two of these? Can you add them all? Can you infiltrate their secret meeting with a cardboard box and two plastic cups?
Overall, very good. I look forward to the next one... even though I HAVE NO IDEAAAAA which one the next one will be.

Howlitzer heads equipped by zombies already give a pretty big bonus. The idea is the head has lost the "spirit" which would make the head fly and explode on knights and is merely a skull with enough magical-death-magic to make it give some resistance to its new wearer. Like Cubone. I miss when Pokemon was more mature. Gengar.
I could have given zombies some new abilities like almost everyone is getting but that would mean intelligence. Zombies are zombies. They ooze around. Not like jellies, which have some kind of brain-core-squishy-thing somewhere. What are zombies good at? Death. How easily do we kill them, even without Brandish/Sealed/Pulsar spam? Very. So what would make them more difficult? Making their constant death an advantage. Totems already do resurrection well so giving them other stuff to do when they die even without totems makes their demise more interesting.
Do you think there should be a cooldown on the knight preventing them from being blanketed multiple times in a row? The knight is invincible while covered and you can still control movement, but you move slower and are unable to attack, shield, or use vials. Invincibility is a pretty good advantage. Maybe if Kats were smarter about getting close to knights this ability would be a huge threat but most of the time they just stand in place staring at you and every once in a while they fly past you.

Yay, I'm back home to my non-laptop with the semi-anti-ghosting keyboard.
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Howlitzer
Keep the damage reduction values for the bullet-eating, but make it shoot back a full clip of whatever it ate. So, if it eats a Trollaris bullet, it shoots three back in a T2-turret-style 3 bullet spread. If it eats a Callahan shot, it just shoots it back. If it happens to eat a single Blitz bullet, it'll spit all 6 of them back. Makes blitz spamming a little less appealing when there's the possibility of all those bullets coming right back at you, doesn't it?
If the Howlitzer becomes a totem, I take it the head doesn't take off and hunt you down?
Where do the skulls show up on the zombies? Do they replace the heads? Are they shoulder pads? Are they claws?
Kat
Yes to the cooldown on being blanketed. @Dr
Two things on the litterbox. 1) what is it for? And 2) you know "Kats" aren't "cats", right? Not even undead ones.
They should only be able to clean themselves, not other Kats. And it should always have some cool down, or you could just make them plain immune to all statuses.
Zombie
While I'm not all that enthusiastic about being able to explain why the hand, skull and pelvis give the bonuses they do, I'll let that slide for now.
My ideas for general zombie falling-apart-ness:
-killing a zombie with a sword gives a 50% chance of dropping 1 of the 6 aforementioned body parts, 40% chance of becoming an upper/lower half, and 10% chance of being split into both upper AND lower halves.
-killing a zombie with a gun will result in 1-2 of the six body parts dropping.
-killing a zombie with a bomb will result in the zombie being completely vaporized, dropping no body parts, and not splitting. It doesn't even leave behind a skull for a totem to revive.

Just thought of something. What if a status effect kills it? Fire, Shock, and Freeze can all kill Zombies. Perhaps Fire can burn the body leaving nothing, while Shock ticks and Freeze thawing simply cause one of the above deaths? In the rare instance of Curse killing a Zombie, it could cause it to drop two body parts instead of one.
And I assume Carnavons get the same things the regular Zombies do?

Yes to clip eating, but would it have a whole clip if only one boolit was fired? Would firing a single Peacemaker bullet be returned with six? Or would firing six Sentenza Bulbasaurs be returned with the same amount? I was trying to avoid making it like Kirby where it only needs a little to get a lot or people would be complaining about gun balance. Even though a lot of people have been complaining about bomb balance and not much has happened.
Yes. If it becomes a totem the head will not fly and try to explode on you. Whether the Howlitzer becoming a totem has a new model or not is up to them but since its radius is already smaller it should be noticeable compared to normal ones.
Imagine how Cubone wears the skull of its mother. Like a helmet but its own eyes can be seen from the empty eye sockets. Not that Howlitzers had eyes when they were turrets, they were still just bones and magical-death-magic.
How does a twenty second cooldown on the knight after being blanketed sound? People usually only need three to five seconds to kill them anyway.
The litterbox is disruption. It gets in the way of knights flopping around with their +6 attack speed Pulsars/Flourishes/whatever while mindlessly spamming around without even looking at their screen. Same idea as blanketing, it gets in our way without simply being more health or damage for them or health/damage reduction for us.
Adding that in in a few derps.
Parts dropped from being killed by swords are active, parts dropped from being killed by guns are passive, and separating into parts from bombs should be the least punishing one of the three but bombs can sweep them out the window already relatively close to how swords and guns can. I see what you mean but giving so much to sword kills is a little overboard.
If a zombie is killed by statuses, as in the very last of its health is taken by a status that deals damage, they will die normally. Vaporizers are still good for it. It also goes for Alchemers and Brandishes, but those are more likely to deal so much damage before the status can try to do anything to be a problem.
What the liquids is a Carn- The curse one with a purple thing on its face? They have back shields, can curse, and only appear in very specific situations. I would say no but the final decision is not mine.

Thwackers should be able to switch their shield to their fronts occasionally.

So many TF2 references...
Anyway, this is looking fairly nice. Keep up the good work...
/me walks away, cloaks, and backstabs Luguiru

Ok, I'm just gonna focus on one thing at a time................Starting with the idea of balancing the Blitz. But I'm gonna make a suggestion first.......yes, to you Luguiru. Well, um, obviously you have noticed that a lot of people aren't really...............well, happy with your attitude on the forums. Now, I'm pretty sure no one in this world (fine, maybe not) wants to be hated..........quite the opposite. Maybe you could start being a bit more nicer to everyone? Not that you aren't already...............But the first sentence of your thread really bothered me...........
Ok, let us get back on topic ^^
About the Blitz................Well, personally I still don't think it would be a very good idea to lower its damage. I know it does a HUGE amount of damage compared with the other guns. But it still has a lot of drawbacks.........The most obvious one being the fact that you can't move when firing the Blitz. That might not sound like a lot............ but if you fire your Blitz at the wrong spot, you'll probably be torn to pieces instead of the alternative. The other guns on the other hand let you move and fire (With the exception of the Callahan, and other guns in the needle line) which is much more safer.
Since does the blitz does piercing damage, it can pretty much kill any monster from the fiend/beast/undead/gremlin family with one charge. But I'm pretty sure we all know that monsters don't just stand in one place, waiting to be killed.
If you ask me, you'd have to be crazy to use the Blitz against a bunch of Devilites. It's darn hard to hit them since they constantly run around the place. The same thing applies with wolvers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but people nearly always use the Blitz for FSC. It's just not effective against other monsters (outside of FSC)
I know that my argument is weak, and my English is bad................so um.......yeah, ta ta

If Thwackers can move their shields to their front, would it play out differently than having it on their backs? It would be a forward problem. There would be no butts about it. Okay enough of that. But seriously, would they move, attack, cook pancakes slower? We know how Mechas do with having a front shield but it only raises when a projectile fires. Thwacker shields defend against everything all the time halfway around it opposite of Trojans who shield their front. How about they can switch their shield to their front but move at 50% speed, are unable to attack, but are only healed for 50%? So if a Mender heals them for 400 while their shield is in front it only heals 200.
I rocket jump and shovel Psycho. Because flying shovels. Snort. You know what? We can have more fun with that.
You so funny. That slaps me on the knee.

You must work hard on this. One big +1 for me. ( I want little cute devilite c:)

I walked the other side of the street with that thread because nothing seemed interesting to me.
Oh boy. Something involving Vog again. Some simple enemy spawn patterns. I am going to explode into derpbillion onions with the completely not sarcastic excitement I am feeling right now. Beuller. Sometimes that kind of thread shows up and I feel like I should do something but I get no inspiration from it. Imagine trying to get a sugar rush from a cup of water. Woop de doodles. Mister Noodles. It also feels like I have seen the same "bring back X, Y, and Z from beta" threads over and over and o-
Luguiru.exe has stopped working. Please insert coin to continue.

I had green jelly giant....
And Ironwood and some originals would've been added...

-ver and o.. Why was I repeating that?
Anyway, I know about the other ones, but it still boils down to asking for beta enemies to be brought back. Nick already said some of them will come back "later" which probably means in a year or two, or some time in the next couple weeks just to spite me. I (and the few people who care about a 'danger' area being 'dangerous' in a legitimately challenging way) want to see something that says 'hey, have some challenging combat without any cheap insta-attack or guaranteed tracking as the only difficult part and everything else is so easy you can fight with your toenails and win'. Like the spin attack T3 Thwackers use. Surprise spinny hammer shenanigans out of nowhere with no warning other than you were too close so derp. Is the moral of that attack to not attack in close range? So swords without projectiles and bombs are at a disadvantage because Nick hates them? I could vomit all over an empty bucket then wear that bucket as a hat while my own vomit drips down my face that disgusts me so much.
If/When you do more stuff, I hope it comes out good. I want all threads to be good. The problem is when someone decides thinking is bad but giving up and throwing their filled diapers around is a great idea. I should start coming up with cleaner metaphors. Not cleaner as in not inappropriate, as if what I use now is offensive. I probably offend people who are into these sort of things. But they offend everyone else so it kind of balances itself out. Why am I talking about this?

The blanket Kat idea is too adorable for me to say no. Though it could be really dangerous if mixed with other monster types that like to attack a lot, like fiends. I dunno, just keep posting cool things.

Um Luguiru, your getting Popular, you even have your own Brand name product, how do you respond?

Dang it Bobby, I tell you hwat, I keep trying to get this stupid thing in that other game that refuses to drop even when I get multiple rarer drops from the thing which is supposed to drop what I am trying to g-
What the liquids. I thought everyone would have learned from last time, but then again whoever made those probably came from a similar mental institute they keep me locked up in. Except they get to hang out with the other crazies. I overheard the doctors talking about whether they will ever release me back into the world but one was laughing for so long he had to leave. Anyway, I better poot a disclaimer on that product before another angry mob tries to chase me into a windmill or something and burn it down:
Warning, Luguiru Chews are not recommended to those who are pregnant, diagnosed with a mental disorder, diagnosed with a physical abnormality, diagonal to pawn or bishop pieces, have more than three eyeballs at a time, or have more than 66.6% sanity. Consumers of this product have been noted to experience drastic changes in mental stability following consumption of this product and almost always end up in a cushioned room with a muzzle locking their head in place. Symptoms of excessive or insufficient consumption of this product may result in any of the following: silliness, being upside down, talking about forms of matter in strange situations, talking to gods of silly things like sandwiches, Alice Cooper, complete abandonment of contractions in written sentences unless quoting or creating dialogue for someone else, stuffing dynamite up the noses of people who annoy you, smashing your face into things to smell them better, having odd shifts between silly and serious, an odd need to say "hom" instead of ham, making fun of stupid people, and listening to unorthodox music such as Voltaire. Other unlisted symptoms may apply. If any of listed or unlisted symptom(s) occur contact your doctor immediately. Not that they can help you, no matter how experienced or capable. You may as well just run for it before anyone finds out. Run! Run you fool! Why did you even buy this stuff? Did you not see the name Luguiru on it? Are you trying to doom the universe?! Just get out of here! Get as far away as you can! Forget about your family and friends, if you stay the crazy will only overwhelm you and make you watch as it controls your body and slaps your friends and family with ducks! Ducks! Why are you still reading this?! Get out of here!! Run for your life!
But thanks for buying our product and we hope you enjoy.
That ought to do well in the market.
Oh, and thanks for Dota.

inb4 misspelled 'psychopath'
Also, insanely fast zombies breaking tropes?
/e gusta

I think I might continue this later today.
Or I can do a family rebalance with jelly or fiend.
Oar I could get back on Wakfu to do whatever the liquids I was doing. Enjoying the completely appropriate animal farts in a symphony when several are gathered together. Yes, quite, indeed, monocles with top hats and all that.

I have some suggestions on how they could work. I feel like they have most of it laid out already, but... :P. Also would like to hear what you have to say about it, Lug.

So.
Spiralmon.
I mean Battle Sprites. My time to talk about them has come.
What about the pets and family rebalancing stuff you said you were going to upda-
We can always do that whenever. Today we have something recently announced. Looks like Nick and friends have been paying attention to us in this land of sausage tins and decided to indulge us a little. This whole post is just going to be me spewing words out of my nostrils on what I think about the whole Spiralmon thing they plan to make, but first we need sources on all the Spiralmon information available to us at the moment. Even though everything Nick said is subject to change and could be completely wrong in a few months, days, or even tomorrow it beats having nothing:
- Announcement
- Discussion
- Cleanup (stuff I might miss)
- Smash, deals heavy damage to a single target and knocks the target(s) down and a short distance away; once it reaches a certain rank it has a small area of effect but deals reduced damage to non-targets
- Defend, forces the user to move slower but reduces damage taken by attacks, substantially increased effects if the user is equipped with a shield; is ignored by Smash
- Counterattack, counters a direct melee attack like basic attacks and Smash; does not affect direct attacks like Windmill, projectiles (if Counterattack successfully reverses an attack the damage is based on a proportion of the damage the enemy would have dealt which increases with rank)
- Windmill, attacks in a wide area of effect at the cost of 10% max health; can be defended against by Defend, ignores Counterattack, must be manually triggered and does not have a visible area of effect (but you can use your mouse which shows you how far away the attack can hit but other players can only guess how close they can get before you spin on them; the higher the rank the wider the area of effect, but the -10% health per use is constant for all ranks); does not visibly flash white but the sound of loading a skill occurs)
- Basic (attacks), uses a basic attack: slashes for swords in a combo, fires boolits until the clip ends for guns, no basic attack for bombs
- Charge (attacks), uses a charge attack: attacks with a secondary (usually higher damage outputting) ability, prepares a bomb which may be placed by release
- Shielding, grants the user invincibility so long as the shield is active; which active the shield takes damage and may be broken but will automatically regenerate over time
Last warning, this post is just going to be me talking about the three links and what I think of it all. If you are not interesting stop reading and occupy your eyeballs elsewhere. If you get however many paragraphs in and you suddenly realize you would rather be elsewhere you can only blame yourself. And the voices in your head that told you to continue anyway.
The first and best place to start would be with the official announcement.
"Our recent projects, including Guild Halls, were selected based in part on feedback from players, both in the forums and from some of the surveying we do from time to time. The requests are, of course, many and varied; however, one of the frequently requested features for the game has been pets."
What, no mention of Severage? Alright. Whatever.
Nick knows the majority is not always right, right? Not right as in the opposite of left, I mean correct. If this game was run by democracy majority vote wins but in a pure democracy for this game where the majority are childish idiots who think this game only exists to entertain them and if it ever so much as thinks of not doing so means it should be completely destroyed so no one else can enjoy it and the minority supports the game there would be a problem. I can understand if he said there were good ideas on pets, but when he says just because the majority are screaming then they should be rewarded then all the 12- kiddies are going to get all the free CE forever and anyone who disagrees with them gets permanently banned and Spiral Knights becomes Tantrum Brats.
"E-Class Battle sprites were originally small, mechanical, AI-driven field companions that aided the Spiral Knights in planetary reconnaissance. That was before the crash landing on Cradle. Sprites collected from the crash within the Clockworks appear to be reacting to the Core's energy signal, changing dramatically based on their environment, improving their capabilities even as they remain loyal to their primary directive to support Knights in exploration and discovery."
Were they outside Skylark floating around in space so we can look at planets while derping around in space for whatever reason? Derping is always a good time, but the goal here is to make up a reason for them to exist so anything can fly. We may as well have pooped them out. People would believe that.
"Battle Sprites are new combat companions that all Spiral Knights can acquire. Each Battle Sprite has a selection of skills that can be used by the player when the Sprite is equipped. Skills range from direct attacks to party buffs and monster debuffs."
Skills? Variety of abilities? I get the sinking feeling some of my armor rebalances are going to show up as these 'skills' and the originally intended items are still going to be horribly underpowered still. What happened to equipment granting the wearer different benefits in a party? Too difficult? It would make equipment variety too viable and clones would be less favorable? I thought the point of equipment like Plate lines was to be a wall of metal bricks in defense and be able to defend allies behind it, or things with family bonuses dealing more damage to that single specific family than a generic weapon bonus when both bonuses have the same amount (+6 {weapon} damage < +6 {family} damage, when used against {family}) so a specialist is what the name implies.
All this talk about skills makes me want to talk about the old Mabinogi skill system from when I started (G1) to around when I abandoned ship (~G15?) because it got so ridiculous. When the game was new it had a smaller variety of skills which each had unique effects. For example:
These are just the staple melee attacks. Seems pretty solid, right? You got a couple defenses, a couple offenses, and you can use it in a wide variety of scenarios. Imagine going up against two enemies standing really close together. You pull up a Smash and have a high enough rank to hit them both, right? So you load up Smash. You see both enemies flash white which shows everyone they used a skill, but you have no idea who loaded what. Neither of them are running at you so you think it involves Counterattack and/or Defense, right? Walk up to them, sneakily load Windmill; they can hear the skill load but no visible skill activation occurs because Windmill is a dastardly skill. Spin for a couple seconds, during which you are invincible but completely immobile (you also lost 10% of your max health for using Windmill here). One of the enemies gets knocked down, but the other put their arms/weapon/shield up because they used Defense. A lot of things could come from this simple four skill system. Now, try to compare that to what we have:
First problem when comparing the two combat systems: in Mabinogi enemies have the same skills players do, though not necessarily all of them. For example, low leveled foxes can only use Defense but wolves can use Defense, Counterattack, and Smash. Low leveled spiders can only use Defense, but high leveled spiders can use Defense and Windmill. Enemies have the same abilities players do. Does that happen in Spiral Knights? Well, almost everything has basic attacks. Some enemies have some kind of charge attack, like Scorchers firing bullets or fire. But do they compare to our abilities? Not even close. We deal significantly more damage in offensive abilities. Well that sounds fine and dandy, of course players should deal more damage than common enemies. What fun would dying all the time be? Compare our defensive abilities. We have one. It gives us invincibility. What do enemies have? Menders can become invincible for a little while. Mechas shield when projectiles are fired but their backs are still exposed. I know talking about Mabinogi so kindly will make people think I recommend it so here is a quick disclaimer: Mabinogi is run by NexonNA which has horrible customer service, unending greed, and cares about getting your money before even looking at problems with the game. If you compare Three Rings to NexonNA you would be worshiping Nick and build a church for him. I could be distracted by what I hate in Mabinogi but the last time I played it was years ago and it probably festered to become significantly worse than when I was last there. If I could change anything about that game I would go back to "G9" and stop there. Why am I so off topic right now?
Anyway, combat systems. Knights are too powerful and enemies are too horribly weak and stupid. I know combat is supposed to have a sort of retro-arcade-only-two-buttons-and-a-joystick kind of controls, which so far has been sailing great, but when you start bringing in more advantages for the already crazily overpowered players that let them be even more overpowered we have more than one problem. Am I asking for Lumbers to have our shields and be invincible at will? No, but give enemies something to get in our way better than herp derp fifty Lumbers up your nose at once because why not. We know you can do better than this.
"Battle Sprites will continue to level up as you use them. As a sprite levels up they evolve, become more powerful, and develop new skills. Players can feed materials to the Sprites for faster leveling and control the abilities they develop."
You mean with heat? Like our equipment does? Speaking of equipment, the majority of armors are still underpowered and/or significantly outclassed. Thought you should be reminded. Again. In the same post.
Finally, a material sink. I could brag about how I thought of it first but that would be stupid and no one cares. The point is someone finally listened. Thumbs up.
"We hope that Sprites will be fun, providing a new experience in the game. They are also intended to provide players with the ability to specialize their role in a party."
You know what else would be a new experience in the game? Armor that gives new kinds of bonuses. You know, maybe something like this but for the armor intended instead of a pet that people with clone setups can take advantage of. Equipment versatility is still supposed to be important, right? People using Plate are supposed to be good at defending themselves and their allies?
"The choices you make for your Sprite will act like a class for your Knight, augmenting your choice of weapons and armor. For example, you may choose a Sprite that deals direct damage with attack enhancements or instead choose a Sprite that bolsters your parties defenses."
That explains why Mew "defends allies" instead of Plate armors doing anything like that. Or the specialized sets like Magic, Skelly, and Jelly doing anything party friendly related. Who needs armor with unique and attractive effects when everyone can just roll solo and do better than a party? Who needs teamwork or comradery when everyone can just isolate themselves? Why am I asking so many sarcastic questions?
"Once the Battle Sprites are available, a new series of rank missions will be added for players as soon as they reach Haven. These missions will teach players about Battle Sprites and allow them to try out each of the three starter sprites before ultimately choosing one to keep."
More missions is good. I would have asked for more Arcade content, but since the majority are the only people who matter apparently then whatever. Only money and free stuff matters. No one wants to enjoy the gameplay aspect of a game, that would be stupid. Only profit matters. Only you, some person among hundreds of thousands, matter. Anyway, starters and Spiralmon and copyright. All good fun.
"Of course, these new rank missions will be playable by any player who has already surpassed those early ranks, rewarding you with a Sprite to keep just like new players."
You almost had us going there, as if you would make new content exclusively for new players which would make at least half the high ranked players completely abandon the game and almost all profit would be gone and the game would stop being funded. You pulled my leg there, buddy boy. Pulled it right off and bleeding all over the carpet.
"Sprites will be a significant part of the Haven Garrison's Laboratory."
Well gosh golly gee, hot dog, gee willikers and all those other weird phrases that always sounded silly.
"The first three Battle Sprites represent three different play-styles. While each has at least one skill that serves as direct damage, they each offer different play-style options:"
You can say it. Sword, gun, bomb. Let me guess. The bomb one is intentionally bad and the sword one has the most offensive use.
"The smoldering Drakon resembles a dragon and delivers powerful, fiery blasts to your foes. It's ideal for anyone who favors head-on combat."
I almost thought the sword one would be a Wolver. If that happened I would have probably gone on a psychotic rampage and started eating people. Again.
"The divine Seraphynx resembles an angelic cat-like creature and uses its luminous powers to defend the party from attacks. It's a fine choice for knights who wish to aid their fellow party members."
Oh good, the party defensive bonuses I wanted on armors intended for defense are instead given to Mew. What a great use of what could have become more crafted equipment from people burning CE to get the fancy party defense effects but is instead going into pets. That sound is my eye twitching uncontrollably to the point of popping out of my head and strangling inside-out kittens.
"The shadowy Maskeraith resembles a masked phantom and uses its toxic powers to debilitate enemies. This devious sprite is a perfect choice for those that like to hide in the shadows or cripple their foes before delivering the final blow."
Hold your liquids. This thing is a ghost. That we had with us the whole time. And it 'assassinates' enemies. Everyone still remember Cutters? Dread Venom? Well, this must be a great idea right here.
"Battle sprites are still in development with a planned release date in the first half of the year. Keep an eye on these forums for more info!"
I sincerely hope in these several months everything above becomes a cruel joke. When these pets get released and all the sheep swarm to the dragon it turns out these things are actually balanced in use even if they sound awful on paper. Please. Spare my therapist the suffering. I can only try to bite his limbs off so many times before I get electrocuted again.
Going into that, just the announcement page, I thought I would feel frustrated at the end. Unfortunately I was right. We should move on before I start chewing on the cushioned walls in my room again.
"Answers to a few questions:
- You will ultimately be able to own and raise more than one sprite, though your first selection is an important one.
- You can name your sprite and customize certain aspects of its appearance. The promotional images are just one example of the final form of the three sprites.
- The use of sprites in the Coliseum is still up for debate, though we're only going to include them where it makes sense (not Blast Network).
- The Lab is not solely dedicated to battle sprites."
Okay, so having the benefit of choice is going to be there. Does that mean we can get all three starters? Also, are they tradable or do they bind to the user like equipment? How do we get them? I should put these questions in the discussion thread though someone probably already asked all of them.
Everyone who gets a dragon is going to make it red. Or orange. Some kind of warm color. At least this means if I get the little ghost I can make him red. What? I like red.
How about balancing Lockdown as it currently is before trying to add something that will obviously give people advantages? Is that too much to ask for?
Can we make our own Retrodes in there? Use the mutilated corpses of unwi- I mean, already deceased knights, to build our own frea- I mean, completely legal machines? Like a robot butler for guild halls? That could be fun. People would make them say inappropriate things, but it could still be fun.
"Icegill - Sprites use their skills when you want them to, via a key press."
Just like Mabinogi combat where you map active abilities (there are passive abilities in Mabinogi which benefit the player without having to be activated) to the F# keys. You can even use a secondary list of hotkeys which can be switched to from the primary list so you can have even more skills on hotkeys. Skills everywhere. Because combat is based on using skills most of the time. Theirs, not ours. I can understand a couple more buttons being used for pet abilities, but if you try to pull more than three abilities at once per pet things are going to get hot. Because people are going to respond with fire that makes hell feel like ice cream in a freezer. Tastes better if you take it outside.
"Sprites will be equipped similarly to how other equip-able items are implemented. Once you complete the rank missions dedicated to introducing them, you will be able to equip one."
A new equipment slot. Alright. Nothing wrong there. New kind of equippable thing, gets its own slot.
"Doctahwahwee - No, everyone can name their sprite Sephiroth."
The context is whether naming your pet has the same exclusivity as naming knights, so if I want to name my pet Stinky and someone has that as their knight name if it would conflict. Having it not conflict is a smart move. If pet names can be seen by other players like knight names then people are going to make spam names to make everyone lag, but otherwise this is good.
"Doctorspacebar - Can't say at this time but you'll know more when we do our individual spotlights on each sprite some time in the future."
The good doctor asked when these pets can be expected on the test server. Not much for me to say here since I refuse to pay to be a tester. Money grabbing and all that.
"Regarding equipping sprites with items, I can confirm at least one item that we're developing that all sprites can equip: harnesses. A sprite's harness is that metal component you see wrapped around all sprites. A harness determines the damage type output for the sprite's attacks. The default harness always does normal damage, but other harnesses can be acquired to change the attacks to other damage types.
However, not all sprites are capable of all damage types. For example, the Drakon does not have access to a piercing damage harness.
Also, keep in mind with all of this info that this feature is still very much in development and subject to change."
Oh good, more reason to not use normal weapons. Only have two weapon slots? Not a problem, just set your pet to the missing damage type and you can do what normal weapons used to be best at without caring. You know what I would have done here, not that anyone is reading anymore because they probably gave up from all the negativity? Each pet can only deal one damage type. As you level it up you can give it a little normal damage, but it always only has one type. With defenses it can have up to two types but you can get more normal than specialized types. Also, as the pet levels up, you manually choose where its improved stats go: some pierce defense, a bunch of normal, a little normal and shadow, or whatever. Same idea for attack but you can only have one specialized and/or pure normal.
"Sprites will not die. No need to worry that your new, loving dragon buddy will leave your side unless you want him to do so."
How about a cooldown period if it "dies" in combat before it can be used again? No? Yes? Underwear? That last one was a weird question. Of course Nick wears underwear. Why are we even talking about this?
"All sprites are designed for combat, all have at least one direct damage skill. But of the three starters, the drakon has the most direct damage skills. This is not to say that it's skills ultimately result in the most damage, they are simply the most direct."
Direct meaning works like a sword, and not direct meaning like bombs which are supposedly balanced. You know how in Pokemon everything gets some attacks that are supposed to be buffs/debuffs? Yeah. I can see where this is headed.
"- Each sprite has a total of three skills they will ultimately know if they reach max level. However, by max level these skills will function differently between players who own the same sprite, creating some nice variety.
- As a sprite levels it will evolve and change its appearance. As mentioned before, what you see in the preview pics are examples of max level sprites. But there are many possible combinations of appearances that a single sprite can achieve. Just like skills, this creates variety as well.
- By 'starter sprites' I mean the three sprites that players will all get to experience and ultimately choose one in their rank mission campaign. The one they choose is theirs to keep and level up. When other sprites are released in the future, they will not be 'starter sprites.' There will be other means of acquiring them, most likely after players have first completed the missions that grant you the starter sprites."
Very good, only three skills. Thank you. From the deepest, darkest, probably smelliest and least often cleaned depths of my disgustingly rotten heart. Or soul. Whatever you prefer to be looking at. Probably neither.
I would have more to say on this but the wording is vague enough to make me derp. Not that I would not be derp otherwise, but slightly more derp than the average herp. That makes sense.
Does that mean if I choose the gra- I mean, "bomb" or "assassin" one will have any effect on what Spiralmon I would be able to get in the future? For example, if you get Charma- I mean, the dragon, but someone else gets Pikach- I mean the weird cat thing, and in the future something like a turtle/Tortodrone, between the two of us only the other guy can get it? But if something like a laser vomiting walrus comes out only I can get it?
I feel like I need a shower after going through all this but at the same time I would rather eat a sandwich. Ever get that feeling? Not stinky enough to disgust yourself when you eat, but hungry enough to not care if you stank anyway. I could eat a sandwich in the shower but it would get soggy. I would start talking about the third and last page but it has everything we already talked about. I should eat a sandwich in the shower instead.
Are you still there? Are you still alive? Probably not, but if anyone is still alive and reading this and did not skip to the bottom expecting TLDR knowing I never do those you should have a good idea of what I think about all this. What a great conclusion. I should get a slap on the noggin. If you check the index under Spiralmon you will notice this is just my commentary and I plan to make my own ideas for it. Even though I was already making pet stuff. Again. Not the engineering stuff, the second group of pet stuff. It has an overview, food, and the little boogers themselves. I should move this whole post in the index under that pet stuff I already have and edit the overview a bit to suit a few official aspects of these pets. Or I could be a stubborn jerk and stop making suggestions. Not that anyone who refuses to make suggestions is a stubborn jerk, I mean after all the stuff I put up in this thread and all the nonsense put up with from other people and how close we are to getting something that could either completely destroy the game or be a nice addition I want to stick it out. If I have to die, I want to die with my boots on. No one is going to get that reference. Anyway. Expect pet stuff. Actually, expect nothing in the next couple days, since I should be continuing this instead of making this post anyway. Priorities. Now go get yourself some ice cream. You deserve it after all my babbling.

I wanna be the very best
Like no one ever was
To catch them is my real test
To train them is my cause
I will travel across the land
Searching far and wide
Each Spiralmon to understand
The power that's inside
Spiralmon, its you and me
I know it?s my destiny
Spiralmon, oh, you're my best friend
In a world we must defend
Spiralmon, a heart so true
Our courage will pull us through
You teach me and I'll teach you
Spiralmon, gotta catch 'em all
Every challenge along the way
With courage I will face
I will battle every day
To claim my rightful place
Come with me, the time is right
There's no better team
Arm in arm we'll win the fight
It's always been our dream

i thought i was the only soul here that remembered the second portion of that song... :P
I'll take Spiral Knights - Yellow version

Thank you Papaya
I'm still waiting for luguiru continuing his march of ideas that will never be, I going to love the Jellies.
Also, I think luguiru had something to with this, I JUST KNOW IT!

I started writing up some Spiralmon stuff yesterday but I had a bunch of things I needed to ask before getting too deep in the marsh. Wading around in some muddy water with crocodiles and Australians, you know, like any normal person.
Plan for keeping this thread updated. Things coming up. Definitely more stuff on my version of pets followed by "How to Spiralmon (general mechanics)"
for the official version of pets with a whole bunch of options. Possibly another family rebalance somewhere in the middle of all this to keep people awake through the constant outpour of Spiralmon stuff in other threads because people are getting tired of it.
That boss has style. I wish Vanaduke could be that talented. Am I crazy and do the graphics of that game remind anyone else of Banjo Kazooie?

Banko Kazooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day are both N64 games made by Rare. It should be no wonder they're similar.
Great Almighty Poo is the best boss.

Before we get started I would like to ask that if anyone finds any public statements from Nick and friends about Spiralmon relevant to how they work, attack, or do whatever, leave a link so I can put it in the commentary and not be wasting time talking about how I think they should work when they already decided on something completely different. My main source for Spiralmon information is this thread but you never know when something new might show up elsewhere.
Spiralmon/"Battle Sprites"/pets are unnecessary in the current combat system of the game for us knights. We still have imbalanced equipment in all departments (armor, weapons, shields, trinkets) some of which deserve some of the features Nick has given to the first three announced Spiralmon. Not the stupid dragon one that vomits fire, I mean the party defense bonuses and whatever the liquids the ghost does. "Assassinates". It does ghost stuff. Ghostily. This has nothing to do with how Spiralmon could work but I wanted it to be clear that the effort currently being put into these stupid little boogers could be redirected to rebalancing existing content that consumes CE which means more profit for Three Rings and more interesting gameplay for all players whether they have open wallets or not, but who needs a business plan when we could listen to the demands of toddlers wearing diapers as hats? That makes much more sense and contributes more to the game without worrying about how absurdly imbalanced pets can be.
Going back to the commentary momentarily:
"All sprites are designed for combat, all have at least one direct damage skill. But of the three starters, the drakon has the most direct damage skills. This is not to say that it's skills ultimately result in the most damage, they are simply the most direct."
Pets that attack. For the few who still have enough sanity to stay in the sausage tins section of the foorims, giving pets the ability to attack is the biggest problem. Knights already have more than enough attack power. Why do we need even more? That would be like having a space laser cannon that can obliterate China with a snort then adding derpbillion walrus rocket launchers on it for kicks. First of all, do you know how many walruses have to be put into rockets just to load all those launchers? Derpbillion. Not even a real number. Second, why are you putting rocket launchers on a space laser? It already has lasers. In space. What the liquids.
I have a few more questions I plan to put on the above linked thread but will poot(is) them here first:
- Why do they need to be able to attack when our knights already have more than enough offense power?
- Do the Spiralmon have their own health, meaning they can be defeated in combat, or are they only separate from the knight in having their own abilities? If the latter, why not skip having pets completely and put the effects on equipment when what we have equipped defines what our knights can do already?
- Do the Spiralmon abilities have any sort of drawbacks, cooldowns, or risks? For example, if I have the PikaMew/glowy-cat-thing and use a team defense ability, would there be a penalty applied once it wears off or could I spam that defense ability thus making defense based equipment pointless to invest in, which inevitably means combat is no longer about having special equipment setups and instead becomes who has the best pet for whatever situation since we can obtain more than one pet?
- If the Spiralmon have their own health and defense as our knights do, meaning they can be defeated in combat, how would we revive them? Same as the knight revival system? Or would there be a completely different system, like a cooldown before the defeated pet can be returned to use or feeding it to restore health?
- How would the pets aim with their attacks? Would they fight as a secondary weapon, meaning while swinging a sword or firing a gun or charging a bomb you can use their attacks at the same time?
- Can pets move independently of their owner?
- Will people be able to play as their pet instead of their knight?
- Will people be able to use their pets in a new kind of PvP where they fight with their pets instead of their knights?
I might have more later but these were the few I had on the top of my mind. Like a hat.
Table of Tonsils
- Getting dressed (how to equip and manage)
- In the fray (fighting alongside your Spiralmon)
- Dinner time (feeding and managing food)
- Hangover (what you do after fighting and feeding with your Spiralmon)
Without further distractions or rants we shall now begin the featured presentation. Please disable all mobile phone devices, tasers, robots, and electric underpants. Go buy some popcorn at the concession stand outside the theater room so someone can steal your seat.
Nick already said you equip your Spiralmon in a completely new item slot when the update comes, but he also said all Spiralmon have abilities which are manually activated with buttons. That means new hotkeys to remember. Sounds great for a combat system based on attacks either being poosh once or hold leetle button, right? Same thing.
Going back to that one thread again:
"Each sprite has a total of three skills they will ultimately know if they reach max level. However, by max level these skills will function differently between players who own the same sprite, creating some nice variety."
Hold your liquids; does it learn new abilities as it levels, like Pokemon where they can learn new attacks by leveling up, or does it start with all three and you can level which ever one(s) you want by choice? Is the leveling system based on the same system we have for equipment, heat? I should add these to my list of questions earlier.
I went back to the other thread and searched for something to clarify another question, if when Nick said they can learn three abilities whether that meant there are more than three but you can only choose three of however many a particular pet can possibly learn or if each pet only has three abilities and how you level those abilities changes how it looks and what not. Putting that on the list.
I was going to make a list of possible hotkey setups, like 5-7 or three buttons close together, but there are a lot of custom hotkey setups people use. Some people use UHJK instead of WASD, or IJKL, or whatever. I prefer defaults because left handed with WASD. My right hand feels a little cramped sometimes but I can always flop it around and slap people.
Alright, so now you have your dragon/cat/zombie-goast flying behind you like a stalker with your favorite two specialized weapons and Wolver/Gunslinger/Demo line armor. What happens now? Are we going to practice medicine?
For any of this to make sense I have to go over some basic ability ideas for the three starters which will be further explored in the next big update to this thread:
- Charmander/Drakon: vomits fire on the target for 20% damage of the last basic swing of the equipped and actively used sword (though it only deals whichever damage type its neck-brace-thing is set to), -10% all armor defenses (only applies to defense values equipped; you will not have negative defenses), -10% damage (applies to all actions which involve inflicting damage), and -10% movement speed for the knight for 20 seconds after using the attack
- PikaMew/Seraphynx: does magic-flying-cat-stuff to your gun which makes its next charge attack transfer 20% defenses from the user to an ally knight for 20 seconds, -10% defenses on the user for 30 seconds
- Gengar/Wraith: pauses the fuse on a bomb which prevents it from detonating until the knight commands it to stop; the bomb gains +10% damage per second while paused, detonates automatically when released (though when the zombie goast pauses the bomb the original fuse needs to end before being able to manually detonate), maximum of +100% damage from the pausing effect, a bomb with the paused effect may not be moved, no more than one paused bomb per knight
I plan to make more abilities for these flying boogers later but now that we have something to look at we can talk about them. These three abilities are based on Spiralmon not having their own health system as Nick said but are applicable with a health system. It would be nice to have that separated pet health, since it would allow for more powerful abilities without being stupidly overpowered, but the final decision is not mine.
Anyway, Spiralmon abilities. How do. They have their own buttons, right? Since we only have one ability for each Spiralmon above, say the button to use that one ability on whichever Spiralmon you have is E. E is for elephant.
A lot of people seem to like PikaMew, so we will start there. You have a gun in your hands. Antigua, Alchemer, Autogun, whatever. Something supposed to shoot boolits. You also happen to be using the full Justifier set with no UVs, meaning your defense is ~7.2 bars normal and ~6.2 bars pierce. Some other derp in your party is trying to spam Barrage on some giant jiggly gelatinous jelly. Why? Because death, death, dev- This is not the time for that song. So you got your flying cat buddy with you and an Alchemer in hand at the moment. You scream at the cat to get off the couch, it farts some defense in the chambers of your gun. Alchemers with their colorful cylinders. You take that gun, point it at the derp, load up a charge, and shoot the cat fart at them. Now they gain ~1.44 bars normal and ~1.24 bars pierce for 20 seconds, but you lose ~0.72 normal and ~0.62 pierce defense for 30 seconds. Not a big deal for T2/3, walk it off or something. In T1 it would be a big deal when you probably only have 3 bars of defense total, but if someone wearing all 5* flops into your party and gives you some of their defense it becomes a big deal for you.
You can probably figure out how the generic dragon works but I ought to talk about it anyway. In case of emergency. Break glass. What? No, leave those windows alone. Say you have a Leviathan with no heat in it because you just upgraded it. Cool, a new toy to flop around. Use it as a snowboard or something. Its blade is enormous. Anyway, you decided to jump into some T3 because T2 and under are for losers. You have your little dragon buddy with no legs flying behind you but your massive throbbing sword is so distracting you forgot about it. Get in a T3 Arcade run starting your own party, floor 19 loads up. The third basic swing on your Leviathan deals ~184, right? So you keep swinging around, herp derp naughty jokes for everyone, when suddenly you see a really big robot-walrus-laser-underpants-thing with eight eyeballs and five nostrils. What the liquids is that thing? You got your Leviathan and that stupid orange thing following you around, mashing buttons all over its face, when you accidentally hit E; the dragon runs up to the weird eyeball-nostril-creature and snorts out some fire on its face. Gee, thanks little orange flying buddy. Continue mashing. But wait, your damage went down a little. Also, when the eyeball-nostril-blob hits you, it deals more damage. Your precious health trinkets and triple shock-fire-poison-pierce-shadow-element-popcorn UVs must be broken, better report that after you kill this stupid thing. Butt weight, it refuses to die! What do you do now?! Run away! Oh no, your movement speed is slightly lower than normal! It headbutts you and you die. What the liquids? Must be hacks and speed hacks and and and noob the stupid overpowered enemy is a noob and you know all the admins to get it banned forever and steal their account to take all their overpowered equipment so you can have eight eyeballs and five nostrils. Nurp.
I saved my favorite for last, the "tactical" one. The other two might get more intelligent abilities when I eventually start the stuff for the three starters we know about, but until then I am going to call the zombie goast Gengar. I started that sentence serious but then I completely forgot where it was going. Anyway, zombie goasts. I mean Gengar. The green guy with a mask on its face that looks like a Devilite with a cape and no legs. Say you have a Big Angry in your hands because you feel big, mean, and overcompensating. That was only funny before the radius increase. You do the same thing as the idiot who took Charmander to the start of T3 from earlier, but your IQ is higher than double digits and you know your Spiralmon is with you. Say you also use VDemo set and nothing adding to bomb damage. Kind of weird, but whatever. Bombs. They explode. You and Gengar set out to derp around in whatever-themed stratum, created by depositing whatever minerals you had in your inventory, and you see the same abomination with eight eyes and five nostrils. Instead of rushing in and getting naked you decide to charge up a bomb out of its range of view. Now you have a charged Big Angry glowing over your head. Seems pretty normal. You put it down, but before the fuse can detonate you point Gengar to sit on it. So Gengar sits on the Big Angry on the floor. Still pretty normal. One second passes. The bomb flashes white to show it gained +10% damage. Wait nine more seconds. Now the bomb has +100% damage. Since the Wiki pages seem to be outdated on bomb damage values say we started at a depth where Big Angry normally does ~280 damage per explosion. If you derped up to the weird eyeball-nostril-thingy with the Big Angry still over your head and dropped it the blast would have done a boring ~280 damage, but since you had Gengar sit on it the blast will now deal ~560 damage. Gengar is still sitting on the first Big Angry you put down earlier, so you start winding up another while slowly walking over to the freak. It notices you. You slowly walk back to Gengar sitting on the bomb still. The freak moves faster than you do right now and happens to line up with you and Gengar who is still sitting on that bomb. Big Angry still has a lot of knockback. When everything is getting closer to Gengar, who was scratching its butt this whole time, you drop the Big Angry off your head. The freak runs past its epicenter. It detonates, sending it flying towards Gengar. You tell Gengar to get off the primed bomb as the freak enters its blast radius which you could see the whole time. The bomb that knocked it into the first bomb you placed dealt ~280 damage, then having Gengar get off the first bomb makes for an additional ~560 damage. Imagine using this kind of combination against 5+ enemies. Avengers and Brandishes for area of effect damage? Nurp. Bombs. Bombs everywhere. With Gengars sitting on them. Nick said bombs were supposed to excel at area of effect. If you try to pull that on ~3- targets it deals less damage than using a sword, but against a whole lot of enemies at once bombs become second to none for massive area of effect damage domination.
Now that you had your fun with dragons and cats and Gengars oh my, everyone goes home. Haven. Close enough. Back to oozing around fondling pretty pink dresses or whatever accessories the last few joints made you imagine and gluing them on wherever Bechamel allows. Because that is the best way to use cosmetic stuff. Glue and staple everything together. The more expensive the better.
Your pet buddy is getting hungry. Better do something about it. No, not the shotgun, I mean feeding it. They already level from heat (possibly using the same heat-level-star-rank system our equipment does, which would be significantly appreciated for consistent equipment management) and can eat materials for even faster leveling than heat. Seems alright. Works like a material sink. Material sinks mean new players can get money easier while older players have something to do. The cycle of stuff. I already wrote some doggy bags for pet food which might have already been read and accepted into Spiralmon, but I ought to explain it a little more.
Quality of food. If I offered you a handful of ground beef in one hand and a deluxe party platter in the other, which would you choose? For most normal people, the one with various meats and cheeses with crackers; now I feel like having some of that. For the other inmates in my asylum either the beef or hand will satisfy. The fresher the better. What? Say you have some random materials. Pet is hungry. Give random materials to pet. Alright. Not hungry anymore, but not particularly happy about it. From guilt you decide to hunt some pet food recipes in the Arcade courtesy of Basil along with equipment recipes. These recipes only require materials to craft, no crowns or energy or frogs. You come home again after a long day of fun in an underground hell and your pet is hungry again. Now you take some materials, make a high star rated dish from materials that were molding in your pockets, and offer that to your pet. It eats it. It likes it. A lot. It gains a lot more experience from eating the higher quality food than whatever random materials and lint were in your pockets.
Alright, you finally did everything you wanted to do today. You figured out how to communicate with your Spiralmon, by shouting at it until it does something. You used your mist while shouting at your Spiralmon to do stuff. You stuffed some materials down the throat of your Spiralmon. Now what do you do? Go back to stuffing accessories up your nose? Well, yes, but you can also do stuff with your Spiralmon. Like enter it into fashion contests! No. No. That would be pushing it too far. No, it has its own equipment you can manage. The little collar that changes its damage type being one of them. You could also plan out how you want to evolve your Spiralmon. Do you want the water, fire, or electric type? Herp derp Pokemon references.
But(t) seriously, what now? No more butt jokes. Not that they were funny. In hindsight I regret starting them. If I get into an election these are going to bite me in the rear. Okay, enough. Promise. At the end of the day having all these Spiralmon is nice but have the same problem as adding new equipment: when people max out they have nothing to do again. Do the start leveling a new Spiralmon? Sure, but there are only three we know of right now. What keeps people occupied? For anyone who keeps up with this thread, making that material sink consistent: feeding gives experience, but you are required to feed it on a set scale of time or its abilities/stats/something diminishes. The lower its "health" (out of combat) the lower its ability effects go. For example, starving Gengar makes its bomb-sitting-bonus effect only giving +1% damage per second at 10% of its "health". This "health" or "stamina" or whatever you want to call it is a feeding schedule. You must feed it at least once every X hours/days or the "health"/"stamina" diminishes along with all ability effects of the Spiralmon. This teaches players responsibility with pets in reality so less animal shelters are full. What? Games that teach people responsibilities while offering an entertaining experience? Pish posh. How ridiculous. How dare I. I should slap myself with a white rubber glove for even thinking about that.

"Charmander/Drakon: vomits fire on the target for 20% damage of the last basic swing of the equipped and actively used sword (though it only deals whichever damage type its neck-brace-thing is set to), -10% all armor defenses (only applies to defense values equipped; you will not have negative defenses), -10% damage (applies to all actions which involve inflicting damage), and -10% movement speed for the knight for 20 seconds after using the attack"
Maybe there's some detail I've forgotten to catch, but this ability seems kind of useless. Why would you sacrifice stats to make a single attack that has 1/5 the effect of your regular sword swing?

Apparently he doesn't like Drakon. The Sprite ability has to do something... helpful. We don't want any Sprite being any more useless than the others. And nobody said Drakon had to be used with Swords. (Combining a fire blast with a Vortex, for example, may be a valid strategy.) Perhaps it can cause its damage over time kinda like the Dark Ret, requiring you to stay relatively close to the enemy for a longer period of time, while lowering your defense and forcing you to stay on your toes? Would have to be small enough to not be overpowered, but large enough so that close-range combat would be sped up some.
I had some more ideas for Battle Sprites, like a cloud that covers an enemy's head and makes them swing haphazardly in crazy directions (and maybe damage allies) or creates a projectile-blocking tornado shield for a short time (AIRBLASTFTW), or a rather dapper lichen with a monocle and bowler hat (maybe a top hat at level 3) that can make ablative "Gel Armor" to reduce a set amount of incoming damage (perhaps at the expense of movement or attack speed) or hold hearts in his hat (like your Silkwing idea, only with hats, which makes everything better), or a floating robot that pulls a small group of enemies toward you with a tractor beam while causing them a constant knockdown/interruption effect (good for stopping that Lumber from smashing your frozen teammate) or that same robot creating a debilitation field that increases the total time status effects last on your enemy (or makes enemies vulnerable to statuses they normally couldn't be hit by... who said you can't poison a Toxilargo?). RUN ON SENTENCES FOR THE WIN! YEAH!
Even if not in this format or with these attacks, I'd still like a dapper slime and I'd still like a robot. I'll have to finish that idea some time...
I like the ideas for Seraphynx and Maskeraith. ESPECIALLY Maskeraith. Bomb chaining for the win.

Those abilities were the first things that came to mind when I saw the announcement talking about what they do and look like. The dragon has the most direct attack, the flying cat does supportive defense stuff, and the zombie goast does "assassination" or delayed gratification.
When it comes to handing out penalties for a set of effects/bonuses/something-added-on-to-something-like-players-who-are-on-equal-grounds, the biggest set of negatives goes to whichever is the easiest and highest outputting one to use. There was an and between those two because they have to be holding hands to get the biggest bash on the head. If it has the highest output but the highest difficulty to use then the difficulty counterbalances the result. If it has the easiest use but the lowest output it counterbalances itself. Nick said the dragon has the most direct attacks, not necessarily the highest damage outputting, and since direct implies something as simple as smashing your face on the attack button to flop a sword around it combines easy use with undefined output. Would you prefer it dealing 30% damage of whatever attack you use through it, but after using that attack get a -30% damage, -20% attack speed penalty? For 20 seconds? Our knights already deal enough damage with direct attacks. If we get the opportunity to spew even more damage on top of that there should be consequences for easier requirements to get it.
Those three abilities are likely to change at least a little when I do the next Spiralmon stuff update for this thread specifically for the three starters. I can tell you right now the dragon abilities I have in mind all involve gaining offense in exchange for defense while the cat is mostly the opposite. Gengar gets to have fun tactical abilities that require the player to have an IQ higher than double digits. Rewarding competence. Teach players to be smarter to get better stuff. You know, like old retro games that never needed tutorials on how to do stuff because you would learn from playing the game. If you screw up you still have more chances. Your health is greater than one. Difficult puzzle, messed it up? Go off screen, come back, it resets. The kind of stuff that made people enjoy those games.
Is it too much to ask for this game to make people better gamers while being entertaining, or is the only thing that matters is getting to the max level so you can do something else?

Does this thread need additional pylons? Are we running out?

Waiting on the Chaos set to be rerebalanced before continuing the next Spiralmon post. I already have it about a fourth done but by the looks of it the whole thing is going to be one of the longest posts in this whole thread. But it only goes up when the rerebalance happens and if that never comes then no Spiralmon stuff.
I guess I could keep writing it anyway. I could also make non-Spiralmon stuff again, especially since I have been having a few more ideas lately to spice things high enough to make hell seem plain tasting. Or I could continue working on suggestions for other games I enjoy which have competent content balancing teams. I am hungry.

I think you should hold off on all the Spiralmon stuff until it's actually released. It's unfair to judge something so harshly when it's not even released and the details are unknown.

May I request those Monster Family buffs? You still have yet to finish Slimes, Beasts, and Fiends, and I'm eager to see what you'll come up with.

Wow, there is so much logical reasoning here it's scary 0_0
Luguiru, the thing I really like about your posts and ideas is that you actually think all your ideas through thoroughly, and come up with all the factors and calculations about the changes you would make (instead of the very common diz neds change, give it...).
I especially like your idea to improving the BAB, being a user of it myself. Even though it is slower detonation than nitro, it's still my favorite bomb >=3
(Gonna save this thread's address, a ton of good stuff here ^_^)
Keep up the good work =)

Never make difficulty an excuse for effectiveness. Why? Because eventually, everyone will be good at it, and then the thing that you decided should be better than the others just because it was harder becomes equally as hard as the rest, but just outright better. Look at the last few months of SCII:WoL; Zerg was OP and winning every tournament, but it was hardly played in bronze leauge because it was too hard. Once you got up to masters and Grandmaster level, though, it was the most played race and it was winning the most, because the difficulties are quickly overcome once you master the race and allow you to beat everyone else j to the ground because you were designed to be better than everyone else if you just learned what to do.
Also @manbogi the idea is to make sure they get released right the first time so they don't need rebalancing.

Because then they'd have to explain how they were able to read the topic and not implement any of it.

I wish I could think of something to respond to that, Klippy Pippy, but that would be like saying I know exactly to the smallest detail how the four team defense effects in this thread would change the game. To put it in a way that will hopefully make sense, using the more difficult option gives you an advantage like distance range or area of effect over the average but not in a way that makes it blatantly overpowered in every way. If you look at the end result you get more but not a huge pantsful. If you go back to the process it involves more player intuition and problem solving than the average options and higher risks. I have never played Starcraft before but from what I have seen it looks like Age of Empires in space. I want to answer your quandary but I lack the complete experience in how it would play out in this game but I have seen it work in other games which have many many manatee differences from this game which make it significantly more difficult and team oriented. At least we have a test server to poke at it with sticks and more than enough people willing to join in on the action. This is starting to sound inappropriate.
Anyway, that was how I lost my medi-
No, the other thing.
Vernon? I missed you, buddy.
Yeah, shut up. I know you only cared about my stash.
Stache? Like mustache? You have a box of mustaches?
Y- What? No. Go read this and ignore the fodder threads.
You mean like the one where someone wants equipment to heat past level 10 and go up to 20?
Yeah. Why are you still here? Get out that door and look at the big thread. I hear they have new traps. You like that kind of stuff.
Gosh golly gee, I sure do. Tiddlywinks. Should I get something to eat first?
Sure whatever. Now stop talking to me.

Zerglings Zerglings everywhere. I wonder what that type of enemy would do if implemented into Spiral Knights.

They'd die to Shiver/Blitz, Polaris, Toothpicks, DBB, Nitronome, Troika, Pepperbox, and pretty much everything else that has some form of AoE attack.
What'cha working on, Lug? :3

I remember telling a couple people but I must have forgot the only place people see me for this game. For the past couple weeks that other game has been preparing for a huge rebalance update and addition of yet another new class (which makes 15 total classes, each unique) and another rebalance update and content addition to come out in April, the first of which is scheduled to happen tomorrow. As usual the rebalance involves a lot of punish-simplicity-while-rewarding-intelligence-and-creativity along with the usual pats on the noggin. With a fluffy red mitten. Grab that mitten and stuff it up my no-
So that is where I have been for the past few days. Chances are I will still be missing in action for the next week or two or eight. As you all probably expected I have had a few new ideas to eventually put up in this thread but between a game that captivates what interests me and another which is understaffed, under moderated, and under appreciative I think I know where my priorities are for a while. First order of business is to eat some peach pie.
Yeah, that’s why I don’t do it here. I’m too lazy to have to log back into steam when I get back to my main comp.
That’s not a good thing. If you played WoW Cataclysm, it used to be actually challenging. Then it got out of beta, and all the new players complained that all the raids were too hard. So Blizzard caved in, and they nerfed virtually everything. The community basically took that as a sign of weakness, pushing for nerfs everywhere you can get them. Blizzard, afraid of losing their precious subs, did what they said because they nerfed the first thing. If you do this in SK, it’ll produce the same result, and sooner or later all the monsters will have 1HP and no attack. No thx :( Better to keep it hard, but reasonable. Why put in something that’s going to be either never noticed, or complained about?
I think I prefer straight defense/HP buff rather than healing - unless the healing decreases the casting Puppy’s health at the same rate. And I still like the defense better, just cuz. Believe it or not, I think this should do the opposite of making normal weapons more useful - it should increase the need for specialized damage. If the eventual goal is to increase usage of normal dmg weapons, you need to leave in some reason to keep specialized weapons around instead of smacking everything to the four corners of Cradle with your Leviathan Blade. btw, revised stats for the defense buff- 25% per Puppy, max of 4 Puppies/200% total defense/100% extra defense on the original puppy. Casting Puppies cannot be buffed by other puppies. Sound good?
I don’t care what it looks like, I just don’t understand it purpose. It seems like Rooting a knight would just make more sense and be more effective.
If you’re taking out the fragments for Mechas, then put them back in for Retrodes. With the gremlin part. Nothing else on Retrodes for now, they’re tough.
When was the last time you, or anyone else you know or have heard about, got corned by a pack of scuttlebots? They’re so weak, it doesn’t happen often. Also, they would only “turtle up” when they’re under attack, so you could get out of the corner by shield bumping them out of the way. You could also make it so they only do that when they have something like 10-15%HP, so you can avoid it by finishing them with a big attack. If you somehow get cornered and start wildly flailing away with your Cutter, you panicked and it’s your own fault you got stuck. Plus, there are plenty of other ways to get trapped in a corner- namely Trojans. Do you want to make Trojans vulnerable to knockback, too? I didn’t think so.