When Kaiju responds, you could always fight Axis with Athena.
After Cradle (roleplay discussion thread)(Pact of the Monocled Chromalisk)
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:05
#352
@Quexi
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:09
#353
.w.
Putting my character in a stationary state. .w.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:35
#354
The thing about glass cannons...
I'm sort of going at the term "glass cannon" here literally, so bear with me.
When a cannon is fired, it creates an explosion that propels an object at high speeds. Explosions are violent and destructive. Now, if this explosion were to go off inside a glass cannon, what would it do? In most cases, it would completely obliterate it, but let's just say there's no way it'll be fully intact. Nathaniel has stayed fully intact for most of the story. It sounds like he's a silver or aluminum cannon more than a glass one.
My point is that you've gotta at least pick up some injuries along the way.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:26
#355
What I think...?
I think Nathaniel should get harmed everytime he uses his powers
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:29
#356
Well,
I think that none of the characters should be on par with the villains, if anything we should be making the group work together not just one or two people wiping out the swarm, or easily competing against the villains.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:31
#357
Q.e
Is this really an argument? In all honesty, I back up Aekuryi.
But I have a few questions.
@Ultimaknightz: why should Nate be able to do all this, without taking atleast, oh i don't know, a fracture to the right leg, left wrist, and right shoulder?
I'd at least note some damage.
@Gzilla: Quexi needs more roles, and as I've been told "Interact if possible" So, it's in a way unfair to just shove someone aside, and dim that person's role.
@Thinslayer: I would like to know a specific time I can start, seeing as I've delayed myself (A lot) what with there not being a good time to introduce a character, and changing the bio so much that Dagoon should just be left out.
But of course, I'm talking about (Codederp Battlesprite).
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:36
#358
Well...
@Gzilla Are you referring to Quexi's ability to handle Axis? Because it would be unfair for one person to be able to destroy everything, like you stated, "villain--->S<---". Quexi is just dealing with Axis on a one-to-one basis.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:44
#359
@Quexi
No I was more referring to Ultima's boast that his character could easily kill Axis. But, if anything your character should be hurting more, since metal conducts electricity.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 21:52
#360
Yeah but....
I was under the impression that metal wasn't living material, therefore he couldn't feel anything.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 22:00
#361
@Quexi
But he's still touching the metal, which means the shock would transfer to his body. Same thing in real life. If you touched a metal bar and it was struck with lightning, it would carry over to you.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 22:04
#362
Mkay....
Mkay.....
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 22:44
#363
Clearing stuff up
@Liminori: Thrynn pops up immediately upon the characters' arrival to the third depth. He leads them through the damaged forest to his master (or mistress) Courage. You are, of course, free to use him prior to that event, but I advise against it, since the characters are in the middle of a battle and won't care in the slightest at the appearance of a new character.
@everyone: I agree that the villain needs to be stronger. Technically, The Master is the main villain, but Axis shows up a lot; if he were easily defeated, this story would be over quickly.
@Gzilla: Axis doesn't always need to show up to his battles in person; in fact, it might be better if he only did it on rare occasions, considering his strength, and for a more interesting story. But I won't press the matter, as it would restrict your involvement in the RP, so I encourage you to use your judgement.
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 23:21
#364
@everyone
Yeah. I guess I'll write some stuff about Nathaniel getting injured more.
Anyway, you guys just gave me an idea for Nate. His powers are extremely powerful, so they're sometimes too powerful for the human body to control, and Nathaniel takes damage. At the end, when he gains access to his Equilibrium powers, he will be the second most powerful being in existence(next to the Great Spirit), but the human body cannot comprehend that force and thus, after less than a minute, his body disintegrates due to the amount of power he is witholding. That's an example of enabling his full powers(making him really, really, really powerful) at the cost of his life. That'll probably be at the end, when all hope is lost and the villain is about to beat them. Whaddya guys think?
Anyway, thanks for the idea and criticism guys. :) And I guess I did make Nate more cannon than glass. :P
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 23:56
#365
@Ultimaknightz
Awesomeness. Just remember not to power play the boss so I have the freedom to let other characters shine. :)
I like your power mechanic. It neatly explains why Gwen, who has all the energies of the Core at her disposal, is not particularly overpowered (I mean, she IS overpowered, but not ridiculously).
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 00:31
#366
@Thin
Thanks. :)
Also, since Gwen controls the energies of the Core, shouldn't her attacks be more... you know... energy like? Like perhaps the energy could give her a boost in running, or she could shoot energy bolts, instead of light attacks, since she doesn't actually control Light. :P Also, I wonder how the swarm and/or Gwen teleports, without destroying herself. Because I can provide a perfectly logical explanation as to how Nathaniel teleports without destroying himself and instantaneously creating himself in another place.
~~~
(Enter Lore useless to the story but fun for additional information)
Nathaniel covers himself in a portal of darkness, sending himself to the Corridors of Chaos. In there, he is immediately transported to a place of his designation, and is sent back to the material plane in less than a second. Long-range teleportation will take more energy and power, and will result in Nathaniel being hurt, because he needs to gather more energy than that of which is needed. That is why Nathaniel can only teleport up to 5 metres without hurting himself. The Corridors of Chaos could only be accessed by the angels of Chaos, who have died long ago. Nathaniel is the only exception to that rule, but you already know why. :P
~~~
What I think is that Gwen doesn't actually teleport, but can run in an extremely fast burst of speed for a moment, thus making it seem as if she is teleporting. That would explain why when she 'teleported' down, she caused a shockwave. But I don't know how Axis or the swarm monsters can teleport. Perhaps it is one of the mysteries in the story that was not meant to be explained. :P
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 04:43
#367
Herp
Nothing to see here
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 06:35
#368
@Ultimaknightz
Scientifically-speaking, light is pure energy. So if Gwen controls the Core, light-based attacks make more sense for her than, say, elemental attacks.
And yes, she does actually teleport, via subspace travel.
The Swarm doesn't "teleport." They are essentially "killed" and replicated in a new location. Swarm seed must exist at both end points.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 08:33
#369
Looks like I missed the show....
@Everyone- Anyhow, yes I too have been biting my tongue when it comes to Nathaniel's overlypowered self. Every character needs limits. Nathaniel's abilities (teleportation, mumbo-jumbo-chaos-light-kaboom stuff, etc.) are becoming too heavy. Glass cannons do not work unless the character is injured. Making Nathaniel more vulnerable would help tone down his OP abilities. And actually, Axis should be able to defeat Nathaniel, seeing as he's the major villain besides The Master. That also leaves room for the heroes to work together in fighting Axis. That's a pretty good way to give this story some depth, ya know?
~
@Quexi- Also, your character is displaying some OP abilities as well. I don't know if you read the part of the discussion thread that stated how character slots work? But so far you've portrayed your character as a Legendary Hero, and if you look back you'll find Thin did not accept your app in that slot. I think you'll find stories have much more depth to them when we use flawed/weaker characters and leave room for character development later on. Another thought, no one in the story even knows who Quexi is, so shouldn't he have found a way to introduce himself before jumping in like he was always there? And yes, Axis' "brushing Quexi off" was perfectly okay, especially if you read my comment about Nathaniel above. Again, character slots must match the character in story.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 08:45
#370
Welp
On a different tangent, every time I hear the name "The Master", I think of this guy.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 10:09
#371
@Aekuryi/Thin- Psst....maybe my sword falling to the ground was a bit loud.....*hint*hint*
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 10:16
#372
네!
I'll type up an entry in a few hours. I'm still at work.
Though I could use my self-imposed lunch break to type one up...
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 12:35
#373
Well, looks like everyone
Well, looks like everyone ignored Ammet's cry for help. You are even on the next level. Don't know what I should do.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 13:05
#374
@Retaeq
Ooh, sorry about that. Well, it happens to be Winter's job description (aiding stranded, wounded knights), so she might go back for him after the party does a head count.
Or...Courage could find him.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 14:07
#375
Aww. . .
Hasn't really progressed much, but that's what always happens when I JUST get off of school.
Also, everyone available for an RTC party? I'd also like to invite seatus if possible. . .
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 15:15
#376
@Immortous
Quexi can only defend himself. All he's done thus far is defend and revenge himself. I am aware of the character slots, but Quexi was listed as an Underdog via Thinslayer. My portrayal of Quexi has nothing to do with his slot, only what he acts like. Quexi is powerless to actually draw blood to things that are alive. Haven't you noticed? Also, I've only used the abilities that have been listed, and none more. Anyone can do what Quexi does, they just need the right material.
I believe I'm being fair.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 17:31
#377
@Thin
Actually, light is electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the naked eye, not energy. So I think energy attacks would make more sense. I mean, it would kinda relate to the story. For instance, you shoot 'light bolts' at the Swarm Monsters. That could easily be 'energy bolts'. :P
The part about Gwen's teleportation makes sense.
As for the swarm's 'teleportation', you have provided an explanation reasonable enough to convince me that they travel that way. :) Anyway, if that's the case, then how does Axis simply teleport wherever he wants? :P
@Immortous
Let me quote from TV Tropes as to what a Glass Cannon is:
'the Glass Cannon is characterized by insane attack power coupled with pathetic defensive ability.'
And what a Fragile Speedster is:
'what you gain in mobility, you lose in durability.'
Combine the speed and damage of both after you've minused both durabilities by each other and you get what Nathaniel is:
The Paper Ram. Quoting from TV Tropes as to what it is:
'Enter the Paper Ram, who trades his health for damage and speed'
It's not overpowered. And didn't I already state limits to Nathaniel's powers, and what would happen it he used the full extent of his powers? Does that not answer your questions? Paper Rams are not overpowered.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 19:30
#378
@Ultimaknightz
Light is a form of energy, just as heat is a form of energy. When electrons change energy states, they absorb or emit light. In short, light is both energy and electromagnetic radiation.
End of science lesson. :)
Regarding Nathaniel, just because he is a paper ram doesn't mean he's balanced. "Overpoweredness" takes everything into consideration. If Nathaniel were truly balanced, he'd be doing about as well as Tenebris (though better than Top), modified only by his superior equipment and teleforce abilities.
Regarding Axis' teleportation, I reckon Gzilla wasn't aware of how the Swarm teleported around. We can retcon and say that Axis came from a nearby Swarm Seed.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 19:39
#379
@Thin
Well, doesn't the azure knight have a seed in him? So wouldn't Axis be able to teleport close to him?
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 19:57
#380
@Gzilla
That's...true! Good observation, Gzilla. :)
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 21:13
#381
@Thin
If I had really wanted to make Nathaniel overpowered, I'd make him a Lightning Bruiser. But let me explain a triangle to you:
Strength
Speed
Durability
~~~
Key:
(n)=neutral(normal)
(+)=great(which is (+1))
(++)=really great(which is (+1)+(+1)=(+2))
(-)=bad(which is(-1))
(--)=really bad(which is (-1)+(-1)=(-2))
~~~
This is a Glass Cannon's:
Strength(+)
Speed(n)
Durability(-)
~~~
This is a Fragile Speedster's:
Strength(n)
Speed(+)
Durability(-)
~~~
Nathaniel's looks like this:
Strength(+)
Speed(+)
Durability(--)
~~~
If I wanted to make him overpowered, it would look like this:
Strength(+)
Speed(+)
Durability(+)
~~~
As you can see, the Glass Cannon, if you solve that equation, equals to 0, since (n) is 0, and (+1)+(-1)=0. The Fragile Speedster is the same. As for Nathaniel, you can see that he has a plus each in Strength and Speed, but his durability is really bad. This equation basically leads to 0 as well. As you have already seen, he is not overpowered. Normal Jack of All Trades look like this:
Strength(n)
Speed(n)
Durability(n)
As you can see, it also equals to 0. Nathaniel is therefore not overpowered, since his stats equal to (n) as well. But if he was a Lightning Bruiser, he would have 3 instead of 0, thus making him overpowered. But that is not the case, and so Nathaniel is not overpowered.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Was that too complicated? Basically, Paper Rams are not overpowered. :P
As for Gwen's 'energy' powers, I'm quite sure that the 'energy' found on Cradle cannot be used to make light. As stated from http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Energy, it can be used to activate machines, craft and give your armor power, I guess. But we'll focus on the activation of machines. Now, what do you normally need for machines to work? That's right, electricity. Now, electricity can come from many places, but since we know that machines need electricity to work, and the 'energy' found on Cradle powers up those machines to make them work, we can safely assume that the 'energy' found on Cradle is either a contained form of electricity, or a source of 'chemical' energy, like batteries. And thus, Gwen should have electric-like abilities, since she manipulates the energy on Cradle. :P
Hope this clears things up. :)
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 22:15
#382
@Ultimaknightz
I'm not sure you're one to clear up someone else's character, since Thinslayer is running the show....
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 22:37
#383
@Ultimaknightz
You forgot skill as a factor. Speed, strength, durability, and skill. Nathaniel is unbalanced because of his skill.
Regarding energy: electricity is another form of energy, released by the movement of electrons. Congratulations! You have now discovered three forms of energy: 1) light, 2) heat, and 3) electricity.
Gwen can utilize all three, in the form of 1) a light-based photon bolt, 2) a heat-based ember bolt, and 3) an electricity-based thunder bolt.
Real-life energy is frequently used to create light. Often, energy is converted from various forms into more useful forms. When turning a manual generator, for instance, you transform 1) chemical energy from food to make 2) kinetic energy from your muscles to make 3) electrical energy in the generator to create 4) light energy in the light bulb. This conversion is highly inefficient, but it does the job.
Also, very first sentence of the light wiki page even says that light is a form of energy.
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 23:42
#384
@Thin
Thin, Gwen controls the 'energy' that comes from the Core. As I have already stated before, the energy found on Cradle is not your usual multi-purpose energy that can be found in most atoms. Following Spiral Knights lore, Mist Energy cannot be used to create heat, nor can it create light. You are using the 'multi-purpose' energy that does not follow the Spiral Knights lore whatsoever. So if you're talking about this in real life, sure, I'd agree with you. But sadly, this is not the case.
Anyway, how would you contain light in the form of a bolt? That would be logically impossible, seeing as how you cannot contain light in any material substance. If a photon hits a single particle(since it cannot stay still), it will cease to exist, and the particle it hit gains the energy(not energy found in Spiral Knights) the photon was carrying, meaning that not only can you not contain light, but it would do no real damage even if you could contain it. As for the 'heat-based ember bolt', how can you contain fire into something? Remember that fire is of the fourth natural state, plasma, and it can only be contained by magnetic fields, which evidently, Gwen does not control. It also cannot be manipulated into being shot like a lightning bolt, since it does not share the same properties with it. And as for the thunder bolt part, do you know how lightning is made? A channel of ionized air is created from a negatively charged region in a thundercloud. Now, the ionized air that comes down from the air is called a Downward Leader. Eventually, the negatively charged base of the cloud gives the ground a positive charge. When the potential for electricity reaches approx. 10,000 volts per cm, ionization occurs along the narrow, ionized path and the result is a flash of lightning. However, creating lightning on the ground is quite impossible, since cannot simply negatively charge ions, seeing as to how you can only do that when the bond between atoms is broken so that the shared electrons go with one atom or the other to form the charged ions. Therefore, Gwen can do none of the three.
As I have tried to say to you before, try and follow Spiral Knights's lore on their form of energy, because that is the energy she actually controls, since she controls the core's energy and all. That is why you make fictional forms of manipulation, which is how my 'light pillars' actually do damage. So I highly suggest you follow Spiral Knights's lore about this, because it'll be awesome. :D For instance, you could say Gwen made a sphere of energy that could be shot, but add a touch of fictional science to it. I hope this post was not offensive, but cleared things up. :)
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 00:01
#385
@Ultimaknightz
I will not state whether I am offended. It is irrelevant.
I do not presently see the need to follow SK lore that closely. Doing so would require completely reworking our RP. Nate's pillars do not exist in-game. People are never seen outside their armor. Holy & Chaos stuff doesn't exist. Teleportation never occurs in-game. All kinds of things are in our roleplay that don't follow the lore; why must you nitpick on energy, of all things?
The principle that guides your argument is not applied equally to all relevant cases, which amounts to special pleading. Either we apply it everywhere, or not at all.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 03:20
#386
. . .
It seems there's always a fight here, I suppose.
I'm thinking of doing a storypost, before the last day of school begins. (Which is US time for me, 7:20)
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 06:26
#387
Lol
@Thinslayer Quexi has made himself into a person-bridge for Winter
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:01
#388
@Thin- Winter to the rescue! Ha, I actually was hinting to you and Aekuryi for Ukai and Arthur to hear Tenebris, but I'm perfectly fine with this instead. =P
~
EDIT: I decided I really didn't want any more part in these feuds.
~
@Quexi- I just had an epiphany! What if, there are different "types"/races/tribes/subcultures/etc. of Necrons? That would totally clear up the physiological differences, abilities, etc, of our two characters!
~
I'll try to get a post in sometime soon. It's been a busy day.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 09:58
#389
@Liminori: Courage is mute. Otherwise, that's a great way to start off Thrynn's story. I'll let the power play slip if that correction is made. :)
@Quexi: I noticed the move. It's awesome. :D
@Knight-Of-Vanaduke: Thanks for that post. It enhances the sense of medical urgency.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 10:34
#390
Beep.
I have edited the post. very barely, but nobody will think she was "Talking".
@Ultimaknightz: If we're going by realism, none of SK would exist.the knights (Technically) robots, wolvers (Mutation of foxes, wolves, etc.), Gremlins, And so on. Not even Cradle would exist. It could, but the swarm and energy source would contradict everything, therefore making it all nothing.
BACON
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:25
#391
Moar science
Did you know that light, sound and radio waves are on the same spectrum?
You can't hear light though, seeing as it's upwards of 400,000 gigahertz and sound can only go up to 20,000 hertz.
And I have to agree with everyone else. While you say we have to follow Spiral Knights lore, we haven't been doing much of that. Why should we anyway? Having less boundaries makes it a lot more fun, if we keep it short and concise.
We don't need to be realistic either, do we? In saying that, you're being hypocritical. You can't materialize swords from thin air or control darkness. There's already DNA mutations, crystals being generated from other types of matter. We're being everything but realistic so far.
You also say that Gwen can only control the Core's energy, but we have not one iota of information on what this energy is. And besides, what Gwen can and can't do is up to Thinslayer. It's his character.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:36
#392
Lol
Someone post a story edition so we can debate more XD!
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 15:23
#393
Guys, there are three
Guys, there are three dreadnaughts to be killed
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 15:29
#394
Arg!
Where are all the pooooossssts!?!
MEEEEOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW???????!!?!?!?!?
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 15:33
#395
I'm at work at the moment, so I can't post until tonight.
Next level, I've got a real treat for ya'll.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 17:20
#396
@Thin
But because we follow SK's energy lore closely(going down elevators with energy), and Gwen controls the Core's energy, why does she not have energy attacks, and instead have light-based attacks? And as I recall, you were the first person to put reality into this. I'm just thinking about how Gwen would be able to control light.
Then again, the principle that guides my argument is the fact that you intertwine reality with fiction, leading to allowing Gwen to have fire-based abilities, light-based abilities and electric-based abilities, and I was willing to point that out. I have indirectly asked you to pick either one, though I was more leaning towards the fiction-based one.
This argument'll be over once you reply back, right? Because I really don't like being in arguments anymore. :P
@Liminori
I didn't go for realism first. And I obviously know that if we're talking about reality here, Spiral Knights is nothing but a video game. Still, I wasn't the one who intertwined realistic energy with Spiral Knights energy first. :/
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 17:35
#397
@Ultimaknightz
What is so different about SK energy that it cannot plausibly represent real energy? It powers elevators, shields, armor suits, weapons, and crafting, just like real energy would. The only difference I can see is the fact that it crystallizes. I see no reason to treat it any differently.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 18:05
#398
@Ultimaknightz
I deleted my last post because I found it to be a bit harsh. But I still can't believe your continuing to argue your point against the rest of us. Why can't the Core's energy be like our own energy? We never once told you that you could not use all your "holiness/I am a supernova combusting out of the sun/chaotic vortexes/mojo/etc.", because there was no point to. Again, this is all of our RP, not your own.
~
@Quexi-
/twiddles thumbs
/sighs
/scans thread for answer
/sighs some more
Whattya think?! =P
~
Also, I'm waiting a bit to post since Tenebris is sort of unconscious at the moment.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 17:58
#399
@Thin
For instance, SK energy does not come in many forms. The 'energy' you were talking about comes in many forms, such as kinetic energy, chemical energy, gravitational potential energy, radiant energy, and many others. The energy in SK can only be used to power elevators, shields, armor suits, and etc. It is not found in the form of kinetic energy, nor is it found in the form of chemical energy, or gravitational potential energy, or etc. It is only found in the form of electrical energy, which is why I was telling you that Gwen should have electrical powers, and not heat-based powers OR light-based ones. There is a lot of difference between the energy of the Core and the 'real' energy we use in our everyday lives.
But in my post before this one, I stated that we need not be realistic. In fact, I wasn't the first person who put realistic science into this. It was you, and yet people are calling me hypocritical for what? Even I stated that you need not be realistic, and yet they are calling me for being hypocritical just because I pointed out that you should choose between the two in a post of mine, displaying how it was logically impossible for Gwen to contain light, heat and lightning in reality, but asked you to follow Spiral Knights's lore about their energy for it to make more sense, and how you could add fictional science to it. So, as I said, reality doesn't really matter in this situation, but following the lore of the energy you control is quite relevant to the story.
If I have been incivil, I am sorry. :(
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 18:20
#400
@Ultimaknightz
I will let you know when there is a civility problem.
Exactly how was I the first to bring science into this? Can you point out the post number? As I recall, no one voiced any objections to my energy but you, and that on realistic grounds.
Perhaps we misread each other. When you objected to light based energy, were you thinking of the lore only? I have trouble believing that you actually thought energy was electrical only.
If that was the case, then I am not so much hypocritical as I was unaware of your thought processes.
Am I right?
In any case, for the purposes of clarity and simplicity, SK energy shall be treated like real energy from now on in this RP.
Just felt a little...dismissed