Please watch Zeddy and accept the fact that bombing too fast is possible. Note how Zeddy, in his video, does not bomb as fast as possible. Then look at the results.
Greavers STILL cheat! (this topic applies to ARENAS ONLY!!! Please stop implying I can't kill a single lone greaver)
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 14:27
#102
@Larry
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 14:46
#103
/reply Batabii
My point is I should REQUIRE them
Shouldn't*
Bombing TOO FAST? How is that even possible?
I think it's a case of when a bomb's supposed to go off: too soon and you won't hit everything, I presume, which means you'll get hit. I think Mad Bomber or Volcanic Demo should help here, so you can more carefully time the bombs.
/r Notgreatpig: Thwackers and Mecha Knights, while annoying, don't bum rush knights.
Off topic, but while we're on the subject of classifications, can someone put up a page on the Wiki classifying all the monsters into their, uh, size groups? Elites, Giants, Brutes, stuff like that.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 16:02
#104
The trick about bombing at an intended rhytm, as opposed to just spamming them as fast as possible, is that enemies can be interrupted at certain times but not others. A clear example of this can be found if you bomb a Howlitzer. If you spam, one bomb will kill the howlitzer, the next hit the Howlitzer while it's still invincibile, and the third one will blow up too late, most likely while the head is flying somewhere outside of the radius before curving back.
However, if you slow down a little, you'll find that the next bomb will destroy the skull just before it takes flight.
This same timing is also what it takes to interrupt greavers consecutively. If you rush your bombs out, you'll find that one blows up before the greaver starts diving while the next one is too late. The greaver dive is exactly short enough to fit between the gap of two max CTR Dark Briar Barrages.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 16:08
#105
Its nice hearing about the
Its nice hearing about the world of bombing from a pro...
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 16:30
#106
@notgreatpig
Except that they can't move at the speed of sound and use three different attacks simultaneously in every direction.
@graveyard
Whoops. I could have sworn I made that same mistake in a steam community post too.
As far as bombing, I don't see how you can bomb too fast when the greavers charge you instantly. They're not ever out of range, if anything they're molesting you constantly. And no bomber set I own, possibly in the whole game, has shadow resist.
@zeddy
I almost never bomb howlitzers anyway. Guns are much better, you can blast the head as it's flying at you. Callahan is great because it interrupts their shots too.
And that sounds like an awfully fiddly, unreliable way to kill greavers, honestly. When exactly do I have time to start charging my bomb? Before they spawn?
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 16:32
#107
Look, I've never had any problems with Greavers.. At all.
Their mechanic is really, really simple to master. Basically, greavers are one trick ponies. They are really fast and they hit hard, but if you know what to do you'll have no problems with them. Firstly, greavers have very low HP, which is quite important. Secondly, they only attack in a certain way. They divebomb at you and are just a tiny bit faster than you are, so running away generally isn't a good idea unless there are lots of obstacles to block the Greaver's advances. When they attack, they pause for an instant and flap their wings, releasing four bullets around it (only in T3). The AOE of the attack is a bit more than anticipated, so be careful! The best way to deal with greavers is to quickly attack them. I like to go to corners so the greavers are all in front of me, and then I release a combo with my FF as they drivebomb, which interrupts their attack. They'll be staggered backwards for a second, and then you can either take the time to stun them or simply finish them off, if they are still alive that is. Easy.
If you are caught unaware, use shield canceling. As they are close enough to you, whack them with a hit in between their attacks. Greavers have really, really low HP, so you'll most likely kill them before you run outta shield.
Also, don't forget to use your pet! I have a maskeraith and if a greaver/greavers are on my tail, I simply use invisibility. You can shieldbash the greavers during invisibility (which basically renders them useless), and then you can finish them off. Or you could use the seraphnx shield aura, or the drakon's shield thingy. All very useful skills for taking down greavers.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 16:37
#108
@Batabii
They're OP - until you realise that just nudging them causes them to flinch. If you own a DVS and you're having trouble then you must be doing something wrong because as far as I'm concerned the Cutter-line is the ultimate bane of all Greavers as far as swords go. Maybe you should figure out what it is that you're doing wrong and make sure not to commit to those blunders in the future. For instance, dashing away the moment they begin their approach should throw them off enough so that you can get the entire pack on one side - use this opportunity to hack away at them and take them out.
It's not as difficult as you make it out to be.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 16:54
#109
^ The cutter's range and
^ The cutter's range and small hitbox don't make up for its speed unfortunately :/
BTB in a corner works for me.
I think Zeddy should give larry a tutorial on how to use bombs so he won't make wuss threads that get enemies nerfed.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 17:08
#110
Solo Vs Team
Well... if you read the beginning of my post, I mentioned that my method works when solo-ing... Getting a team is simply an option, and coordinating with a team is a further add-on to that option. Otherwise, I play solo 90% of the time using my method. The point is still to try different ways to overcome the challenge because if a single player can do it (and which in this case, more than one player have done it), then it's all a matter of adopting a gameplay method that works for you.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 17:32
#111
Hm...
Greavers flinch if you hit them midattack, if you managed to get them all in a group and swipe out with a Barbarous Thorn Blade or Final Flourish just once, it'll cancel out quite a lot of the Greaver's attacks. The remaining ones can be shielded, or if you can, try to cancel them out too via shield cancelling and slashing or just try to dodge them (which is pretty difficult) or dash away if you have dash ready. Alternatively, Shield Bash a lot of them and then strike them to cancel their attacks. Or stay in the corner and swipe out at them with wide sweeps.
On the topic of 12 elite enemies in the arena, can somebody give me tips for dealing with 12 Gremlin Demos in T3 elite being padded along with 2 mendors? They were apparently able to survive riding a full line from a Silent Nightblade charge attack (although that may be because it was basically the last depth and I had a team member with me, and it's elite mode-also, I now have an Archeron). The entire arena was literally filled with bombs and there were explosions everywhere D= (though I did have some lag during that run that made me suddenly teleport into bad positions)
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 17:39
#112
@Batabii
Yes. All it takes is an understanding of what causes the next wave of an arena to spawn and knowing what to expect of said wave. Once you've learned that, you can use the fuse time of the bomb about to kill your last opponent to charge up your first bomb for the next wave.
The thing about making greavers Elite class is that they'll never surprise you anymore. Elite class enemies only spawn at the specific points designated for Elite class enemies. The final wave of arenas will always be 12 elites, 2 healers and 2 regular trash. This final wave will always spawn after you've fully eliminated the 4-turret wave, the 8-turret wave and the two 4-giant waves, all of which seem to spawn interchangably with another.
Failing that, my previous video shows me dashing away after all the greavers gathered at me, allowing me time to charge a bomb.
@Venomousbiohazard
Greavers, being "Elite" class enemies, have 50% more health than normal enemies, so I wouldn't call their health low. However, they don't do any dodging or shielding, and they're totally unable to retaliate once you've got stunlocking them down, and for that reason they go down relatively quick compared to other enemies.
Fri, 08/16/2013 - 18:23
#113
Spam Combuster charges. If they are fire griefers, spam Voltedge charges. And you don't need a vortex to do this.
PROBLEM SOLVED
Now let's graveyard this thread and bury it deeper than Shotjeer can think of.
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 06:09
#114
@Batabii
http://youtu.be/wrqfHuWRjmQ
Do you have any excuses left?
@Cyderiax
The gremlin demo spawn is a pretty tough one, but they're not all that bad in themselves. The hard part is getting to the gremlin menders so they won't heal the demos right back up. Dark Briar Barrage is great for situations like these, as is Venom Veiler.
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 08:04
#115
@Zeddy
/hug
Nice video, great Okami music...
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 12:59
#116
@venomousbiohazard
That's not true at all. They take like ten hits to kill, even with BTB and max damage bonus. And I tried using the corner and shield canceling, but every time I swung my sword I got hit, no matter how fast I went. When there's more than 4 at a time, they end up staggering their attacks so there is no safe time to hit them. I have seraphynx, and my angelic aura does virtually nothing against them, and they fly right through the ray of light without even getting hit.
@shidara
The only way to get the "entire pack on one side" is to be in a corner. And DVS's hitbox seems even smaller than BTB's, so they just get around it.
@voza
They NEED to be nerfed! At least in arenas. I don't care if you guys think you have a way to beat them, the fact still remains that they're the most OP enemies in the game.
@stvier
Getting a team is NOT an option. Even if I'm lucky enough to join one, they all ditch me at the terminal. And once again, there's no reason teams should be required.
@cyderiax
Shield bash only works with full shield health, which is impossible with a dozen greavers embedded in your face
@zeddy
I know where and when they spawn, I just think that doesn't give you a whole lot of time to start charging.
@u77654
I don't have combuster. I don't have Voltedge. And those attacks take too long and only hit right in front of me.
@zeddy
You have two trinkets and an event-only hat. Your argument is invalid. And that's not an excuse, thats a fact. Also I thought you told me to use only DBB, but you mostly relied on Nitronome on the last wave. I'll try with Irontech Destroyer, since I don't have nor really want nintronome (nor should one specific weapon be required), but I'm not expecting much since I can't afford all that rare gear you have (bombs aside)
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 13:06
#117
GET DUNKED SON
Time for a little perspective. I'm T2. I play Elite occasionally and Advanced the rest of the time. My main armor/shield line is 3* Skelly and I have a Flourish and Magnus. I don't SC or do anything else cheesy like that.
I think Greavers are easy. They stick to you like glue, yes, but that's not really a problem if you can dash around them and shield (Skelly Shield helps here) when they attack, which is easy because their attack is ridiculously telegraphed. You could also use bombs to scatter them, I suppose, but I don't have any piercing bombs other than a pathetic little Spine Cone.
Do you even lift?
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 13:05
#118
You can replicate that level of CTR with standard gear, Batabii.
"And that's not an excuse, thats a fact."
...Go home, everyone. Thread's over. It's pointless posting in this thread anymore.
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 13:41
#119
@Batabii
Tell me some gear to use and I'll use it.
By the way, my "event-only hat" is a Dread Skelly with a +1 damage for bombs. Are you seriously telling me that made an enormous difference?
The Nitronome was not for dealing with greavers, it makes no difference on them. I had it out in case I got a mecha knight spawn, which would've screwed me over with a DBB.
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 13:53
#120
I don't even.
if you need help with grevers son then get a DR. I got like I-dunno bombs and the DR is one. It'll interrupt every move those greavers make so just spam on down and watch them break.
-drops a small child then leaves-
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 14:12
#121
Can we rename the thread to "Larry points out non-existent flaws in Zeddy's videos on how to roflstomp greavers and refuses to accept that they are beatable"?
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 14:12
#122
The Truths don't provide any Answers
In an effort to appear helpful, I'm going to list some some gear you might want:
Mad Bomber Set
Volcanic Demo
Divine Veil
Snarbolax set
Final Flourish
The Snarble Barb one (I don't use it, dunno what it's called)
Dark Briar Barrage
Scintillating Sun Shards
Dark Retribution, if the others are to be believed
Overall, you might want the Veil and perhaps the DR whatever you do. The Shadowsun Set is worth a look at if you're thinking of using Blitz. Personally, I'd say take either the Volcanic Demo or Mad bomber sets (or a bit o' both, whatever floats your boat) and get the SSS and DR - dump the DR into them when they spawn, and stun them with the SSS. Rinse and repeat. If you have room for more, the DBB and/or one of the toothpicks stated above should help.
Sat, 08/17/2013 - 14:17
#123
Huh, maybe they just feel like they have such low HP
because they are so, so easy to stagger when they try to attack you.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 00:25
#124
@warp-master
"I'm T2"
Ok, thanks, NEXT!
@Zeddy
It clearly says KAT HISS COWL on the video...
And for the last wave, you almost exclusively used Nitro...
@gravelord
I have all of those, they haven't helped.
And even if DR DOES work, the fact remains that it's a dlc-only weapon, and it's unfair to expect everyone in the game to own it.
Scintillating Sun Shards is a resounding failure. Last time I tried, I couldn't even get a charge in with max ctr. I got hit every time. Plus it doesnt hit NEAR me which is the only place greavers go.
@Venemous
except they aren't. As I mentioned earlier, even when I hide in a corner and spam shield-canceled BTB, they still hit me every time I try to attack.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 00:54
#125
@Batabii
Yes, I was wearing a Kat Hiss Cowl.
Here is the Kat Hiss Cowl.
Here is the Dread Skelly Mask.
Notice how the stats are almost identical for the purposes of this arena. If you consider that I was using two CTR pendants, the only difference was +1 bomb damage.
And yes, I wasn't going to just change from Nitro because I was a bit worried I'd lose my timing and the greavers would get out of control. As you can see in the video, that's exactly what happened when I switched to DBB.
Functionally, the only difference in that situation would be that the greavers would've died faster.
Now tell me some stuff to use and I'll beat the arena in it.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 00:58
#126
Chaos set.
Crest of Almire.
BTB, Nova Driver, SSS.
No uvs, no trinkets, no sprite perks above 3*.
Oh and no using any sprite skills I don't have (seraphynx, level 64). Hexing Haze makes it too easy I hear.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 03:09
#127
I don't have a Nova Driver. Mind if I take SSS and Honour Blade?
By the way, how come sun shards and not DBB? I'm all for shards, but if you want the easiest possible loadout, and judging by the other stuff you let me take that seems to be what you're going for, DBB is going to make it all a lot easier than the shards.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 02:53
#128
So's what gate and level are
So's what gate and level are we talkin' here gents? I want in on the action!
~Luke
Edit- Ice Maul, Fiendish Fray, gate of the Diamond Skull # 27.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 02:54
#129
Iron Skull Gate, depth 27. There's a fiend/freeze arena there.
And we're doing this on Elite.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 02:54
#130
Adv or elite
Also can you recommend a good recording program, I'm going to have to save this project for tomorrow it seems.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 02:55
#131
Elite. I use Fraps, myself.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 03:02
#132
Fraps is king. Razer Game Booster can basically do the same but a bit worse, notably for free.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 04:38
#133
While we're on the subject
While we're on the subject (and because the OP is an obvious troll) anyone know how well MSI Afterburner's builtin recorder works with SK?
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 10:52
#134
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
Hmhmhm....how about Zeddy and Batabii go on a run together and Batabii dies so that he can watch Zeddy fight the greavers? Bata can also restrain Zeddy's gear from there, instead of waiting for Zeddy to make a video.
Or I could do it...I beat them up with Callahan bullets, Lionheart Honor Blades, and DVS. Could that help? :P
Also, I have no T3 event gear.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 13:40
#135
Actually, I'd like to try the opposite. Zeddy steps aside while I show him how overpowered greavers are and that his strategies don't work.
And if FOV didn't work, why will Honor Blade?
Also warp-master. that couldn't be further from the truth.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 13:53
#136
"And if FOV didn't work, why
"And if FOV didn't work, why will Honor Blade?" Because you suggested he wore chaos?
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 13:54
#137
Truse me, FoV works.
Also, if
Truse me, FoV works.
Also, if you keep nerfing the most OP enemies in the game, soon everything will be at your level. Which means the pros and most others will probably quit.
First, the greavers will go.
Next, devilities
then:
Alpha wolvers
Ice jellies
Gremlins
rocket puppies
Lumbers
Menders
(Every other enemy that poses some sort of challenge)
Honestly. If you want to play a game that poses no challenge, all enemies are equal, and that has everyone with equal gear, go play Pac-Man
Not all enemies are meant to be the same. Everyone else knows this.
If all else fails, get a FoV CTR VH, get yourself some fire max gear, and start spamming it like there is no tomorrow. Works for me
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 13:55
#138
The grievers are really easy for me now. All I have to do is stand there shielding or spamming bombs with my hexing haze thing, and they rush up and take a ton of damage.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 14:05
#139
@Batabii
I just need a sidearm to deal with lumbers and mecha knights, man.
Will DBB and honour blade work for you? Polaris? Sentenza? DR? Biohazard?
Honour blade actually works really well against greavers, by the way. The real problem with the 12-greaver wave is the things spawning which aren't greavers.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 14:29
#140
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
I wasn't saying that I would use the charge attack of the Honor Blade, because, really, I don't. You just spam the first and second swings. Sure, I get hit, but that's why I wear a Sepheric Helm, my dread skelly pendant, and use my Exocriser II quirk. You have to stack yourself up to get these guys if they give you problems. This is the ONE case where it severely helps to get bunches and bunches of defense, and they really aren't that deadly anymore. This is including the statuses, too.
They used to eat me up until I got over my first reaction of getting away. I want to do the opposite now. When fighting one, you want to run to him so he shoots right past you. When surrounded, you don't shield, you attack. Shielding is worse than doing nothing because you end up with a broken shield, whereas you attack and get atleast half of them to flinch before they hit you. I've killed them faster than I have mechaknight hordes because they get in your reach.
Sorry, I'm not up to date on all this. Do you have decent resistance to these guys? I don't mean Snarbolax, because I think that the stat bars lie outright, with Skelly and Divine being far more effective. Shock resistance helps a lot, too.
Also, good idea. Next time we are online at the same time, I want to watch you get eaten...
MWHA HA HA
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 16:36
#141
^___________^
O Btw I'm choosing my own arsenal and may opt to display the effectiveness of using the blitz non-charge with max dmg&asi.
Sun, 08/18/2013 - 22:49
#142
@voza
Uh, no. I tried Fang of Vog. It didn't do crap. All it did was interrupt one attack and set me on fire before they came charging right back like nothing happened. And that's with NO fire weakness.
Devilites (Albeit being glitchy), Alpha wolvers, Ice Cubes, and menders are not OP, and Rocket Puppies and thwackers are hardly that bad.
@zeddy
Look, if you're just using it on constructs, I don't care what gun you use. And Fang of Vog does way more damage on a charge than Honor Blade, and it STILL didn't help me.
@autofire
If you're not using the charge, why are you even bothering with the honor blade? As for stacking defense, you're just proving how OP greavers are.
I tried again today. Here was my loadout:
Snarbolax set
Crest of Almire (probably taking this to the arena every time)
BTB
Nova Driver
Plasma Capacitor
I tried the corner-guard method again. And threw a curse vial on top of that.
Barely made a dent before I died.
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 03:09
#143
Alright so:
Chaos Cowl
Chaos Cloak
Crest of Almire
Valiance
Dark Briar Barrage
No sprites or trinkets
Any objections?
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 05:05
#144
The Truths don't provide any Answers
I've an objection: instead of the Chaos set, use Fallen if you have it. The fact that the set gives minus Fiend VH is the point.
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 06:50
#145
@Gravelord-Caste
Doesn't make much of a difference except I'd really need my CTR trinkets.
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 07:02
#146
@Batabii
Since your screenshot only shows the final part whereby you are dead... I'm going to assume that one of the following things happened to cause your demise:
1) You weren't using a (Final) Flourish, although I think BTB should work, assuming it's first slash hits everything in a forward arc, otherwise hitting one target is effectively just as useless, which leads to the next point...
2) You were using (Final) Flourish but you got too carried away and started combo-ing, instead of whack once-shield-whack once.
3) You were trying to kill the healers first.
These are pretty much the same reasons my team mate fails to do the corner-method successfully, although it's mostly due to over-zealous clicking and combo-ing on the Final Flourish.
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 07:16
#147
I don't suppose you've tried out the Hammer yet?
If you have, how'd it go? But seeing as you haven't responded anything about it like if it's useful I'm guessing you either haven't tried it yet OR it didn't go well...
@Zeddy I never knew the Nitronome was that effective, makes me want to get one. :D
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 08:19
#148
... What?
>Actually, I'd like to try the opposite. Zeddy steps aside while I show him how overpowered greavers are and that his strategies don't work.
Am I the only one bothered by this comment? Zeddy is the one who's supposed to prove that the strategy works, and if you're the one trying to execute it and fail, doesn't that just mean that you don't know how to do it rather than the strategy itself being flawed? It's not that Greavers are "overpowered" it's that you don't know how to combat them. If you're not trolling then I'd suggest you actually straighten yourself up and actually start practicing rather than whining about how bad you are at dealing with them.
Know what, I'm done with this thread. I give up on it. This is a lost cause. Bye.
Shidara leaves.
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 08:22
#149
After 148 time I think it's about time to tell the truth... Greavers suck. Just put on Snarby Set, FF/BTB and 2 ASI Trinkets. They fall like leaves in autumn.
Mon, 08/19/2013 - 08:31
#150
If Batabii is still having problems with all of the
strategies suggested... Then we can come to a conclusion: Batabii is just really, really bad at this game. I'm pretty average/under average, but i've never had problems with greavers. They are easy, it is really the enemies that come with it that are the problem.
I know right. It's not like mecha knights or gremlin thrackers appear in dozens every single time in arena and are elite monsters -_-.
They are elite monsters, if I'm correct, the last wave on the last arena part has 2 menders, some other derpy enemies, and like dozens of elite monsters.