Spiral Knights - Greavers STILL cheat! (this topic applies to ARENAS ONLY!!! Please stop implying I can't kill a single lone greaver)

Greavers STILL cheat! (this topic applies to ARENAS ONLY!!! Please stop implying I can't kill a single lone greaver)

315 replies [Last post]

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 10:21

#201

The-Mighty-Potato

Greavers do not "Cheat" in T1/2, Sunnyeh

They cannot catch up with you when they 'lunge' and turn back at you when they're about to attack. In T3 they're right behind your back.

@Batabii If I did Clockwork Tunnels and they spawned on their own, they'd be fine. When they're in multiple groups they'd ALSO be fine. I believe why you think they "cheat" is because their lunge is 'too' accurate, meaning you cannot outrun them. When they do lunge, they catchup with you instantly, giving you no opportunity to escape. I personally don't have a problem when there in large groups. Any type of monster can do that (even status monsters). You problem is, is that once you can finally break free a little you get crowded gain straight after, giving you no time and space to help yourself.

My only advice is to bring a heavy sword. Any Sword Swing (I.E Suduraska) on them while they're about to attack you will completely cancel their attack. Another heavy Sword example is the HAMMER! (Like I already strongly recommended) Also the dash helps you break out of the crowds.

That's just the reason why I think that YOU think they cheat.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 11:34

#202

Sunnyeh

Perhaps I didn’t explain myself right…

Perhaps I didn’t explain myself right… I mean, there’s a group of Greavers, I’m running and shooting, they ‘lunge’, I cancel one or two of their attacks with the blaster, there’s a considerable distance between me and closest Greaver still lunging (like, another player could fit in there), the Greaver attacks, I take no damage, however get frozen/shocked as if I were hit. :-/

The same as also happened with a closed gate or blocks between me and the Greaver, that’s why I’m never thinking it’s safe to approach a trapped Greaver again! D:

This all in Tier 2; in Tier 1 they were always quite easy since I could outrun them. ^^

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 11:55

#203

Zeddy

You get frozen/shocked due to the mist they drop. This mist, you can become immune to by wearing an appropriate set and using a status sprite perk.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 17:11

#204

Batabii

@spookington
I didn't post this thread "just to complain", though I did want the devs to fix it.
Some help would be nice, but nobody has offered a solution that doesn't involve absurd amounts of crowns/energy that most players can't afford and can't be justified for a single enemy spawn.

@the-mighty-potato
No, they "cheat" because they spawn 12 at once. if it werent for that, I wouldn't have even made this thread.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 17:20

#205

Voza-Il

.......How thee

.......How thee heck......that is just hoow fiend arenas are designed man. They choose a ln enemy based on the enemy type. Fiends will be either devilities or greavers, constructs are mecha knights, undead can be skellies or kats, etc.

The update that prevented greaver spawns was not meant to override arena pre-set functions. It was just referring to normal clockwork levels.

Besides, mecha knights and greavers are both elite monsters, so to be consistent, mecha knights would have to be spawn nerfed as well.

Seriously, stop complaining about the difficulty. Zeddy provided bomber methods of destroying greaver clusters, sworrdie methods are FoV or BtB charges, or just being smart with any sword. The gunner attack method is to use AP or alchemers or swotch shoot, to cancel attacks.

If you are too incompetent to defeat greaver spawns after FIVE PAGES of recommendations and discussion, then you truly are the most pathetic SK player in existence. Man up to the challenge (Yes, I know the term Manning up doesn't apply to nerdy gaming, but whatever), or go play a game you cant lose at that boosts your self esteem, like brickbreaker, or the ABC game.

Greavers....get on their level....

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 18:14

#206

Batabii

No. Greavers are elite like trojans are elite. And you don't see 12 of those at once!

Couldn't they make it spawn devilites or something instead? Maybe a more balanced mix? Anything but 12 greavers

Zeddy's so called methods either flat out didnt work, or else hinged on gear that most people wouldn't be able to obtain.

And lies and insults change nothing.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 18:46

#207

Flowchart

It's tough not to take damage using the dbb method when solo but if you get 2 or 3 people together with it you can get out unscratched since it's easier to interrupt the non-greaver spawns.

Another way to take them out is using the hammer (yeah I know, complain about requiring the expansion for this) as the dash will push you out of a cluster of them while doing damage at the same time.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 18:55

#208

Draycos

Maybe they didn't work because you didn't use them right?

Also, I think Trojans are classed as "brutes". Another example of a "brute" would be Giant Lichen Colonies.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 19:29

#209

Batabii

Regardless, greavers are clearly above and beyond standard gremlin, devilite, and mecha knight spawns.

How about this: they're more like ghostmane stalkers.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 19:34

#210

Zeddy

Trojans are giant-class, not elite.

Elites that I know of:
Mecha Knight
Gremlin Thwacker
Gremlin Demo
Greaver

Kind of weird to not find devilite overtimers there, really.

Also, ghostmane stalkers are almost as much of a joke as gorgos.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 19:44

#211

Voza-Il

Seriously batabii, your sad

Seriously batabii, your sad excuses for being a failure are helping nothing. Get out before you cause the game to be nerfed all the way down to your level.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 19:52

#212

Batabii

if by "joke" you mean "ridiculously hard to fight in large numbers".

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 19:55

#213

Draycos

I'd rather have the other elites scaled up to how dangerous Greavers are. Most other fights in Arenas boil down to "kite until everything's dead"...

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 22:56

#214

Batabii

just because arenas are "simple" doesn't mean they're easy by any stretch.

Sat, 08/31/2013 - 23:00

#215

Draycos

Not being able to attack as often and having to spam AoE/bullets while constantly running in a circle around a room isn't difficult, it just takes a painfully long time.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 00:03

#216

Fangel

My problem isn't with

My problem isn't with greavers. My divine avenger plus armor-based damage bonuses make the fight against them pretty simple... It's the gorgos that kill me... I honestly don't know why, but they are my kryptonite. I did a fiend arena today, and kept the first wave of gorgos alive so I could go through the other waves first, and by golly was that hard. I like the challenge, but I'm probably one of the only people here that has an issue with them.

Also, if I'm remembering this correctly, fiends are supposed to be one of the harder monster families. It only would make sense that we'd have problems with them, but that means they are a good challenge, and should be kept the way they are. If we can't adapt, that's our problem - it's not like the enemies can complain about how overpowered we are.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 09:57

#217

Asthix

My 2 Cents

I've made it through the last room greaver wave without dying a few times but you need all your teammates to be skilled.

I've never made it through solo without dying, so I definitely sympathize with OP.

When there are 9 of them (or 12 or however many) it is simply not possible to cancel all their attacks. No matter what the status, when I get hit once, the reaction delay means absolute death no matter what because the greater health they have now means there is no taking out half of them to make it manageable before this happens.

I don't necessarily think it should be possible to solo everything without great difficulty, but it certainly is maddening.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 10:00

#218

Batabii

Snarbolax set doesn't help much against greavers at all, so armor is not the issue.

And draycos yes it is difficult. Not "12-greavers-at-once" insane difficult, but still fair yet challenging

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 10:15

#219

Draycos

You tell me why holding the key to move in the opposite direction of enemies while occasionally hitting M1 to shoot is difficult. I can't tell why.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 10:27

#220

Traevelliath

Wait... How does Snarby armor not help?

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 11:25

#221

Fangel

I actually wear valkyrie

I actually wear valkyrie armor, not a snarby set. That way, there's a universal damage bonus vs fiend. It might not have freeze resistance, which is helpful, bIut if you're a hybrid like me, a sword bonus isn't as helpful.

That, plus I've only ever been on one shadow lair run, and it was on a random arcade run with randoms. It was a lot if fun though.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 15:01

#222

Batabii

@draycos
You're really oversimplifying it. And if you're using nothing but guns on a dozen mecha knights, you'll take forever to kill them (or not at all if there's menders)

@traevelliath
It doesn't help because I still die.

@Fangel
I am a hybrid, but I don't own valkyrie. Nor do I wish to craft an entire set just for one enemy spawn.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 16:03

#223

Draycos

Sword, gun, bomb; same exact tactics.

Tell me why it's hard.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 16:49

#224

Traevelliath

If Snarby lets you take a few more hits, then it helps. If it makes it so your sword swings kill a Greaver in one or two less hits, then it helps.

Helping doesn't mean solving your problem

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 17:52

#225

Batabii

@draycos
If it was easy, nobody would ever die. There's spikes in the way, enemies sometimes change targets or randomly stutter, there's different combinations of ranged and close attacks, floor spikes limiting your mobility, and you generally have to kill the menders before you can make any progress. It's far from easy. Especially if you're trying to win without getting hit.

@traevelliath
There are two possible outcomes. If the outcome is still the same, it didn't really help.

This isn't like "I got 5 dollars instead of 6 dollars", this is all or nothing. I still died, so it didn't help me.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 18:52

#226

Traevelliath

That's like saying a bus doesn't help you because it drops you off one block away from your destination, instead of right in front of it...

Helping doesn't mean solving the problem, it just means it makes the problem easier to manage.

Sun, 09/01/2013 - 19:07

#227

Draycos

Well, nobody in my parties ever does (excluding randoms in pubs that either don't care or don't have a clue what they're doing).

Those spikes are always in the same locations, and you can just walk around them while still going in a circle. Considering you don't really have enough room to move between those spikes (except in rare situations), it doesn't matter.

Enemies don't change targets once someone's damaged them, and then they only switch when someone hits them more than the guy who just did.
You'll never get hit by those ranged attacks if you keep walking away from their source (mecha bullets are extremely slow, gremlins thwacker hammers have no tracking and don't move faster than you, gremlin demos... they use bombs).

Menders are completely shut down by certain weapons, whether if it's by use of poison, or if they deal so much burst that they die instantly. If you don't have those weapons, you can either hope they use their single-target heals or move to mid-range near them so they dash away, out of the crowd.

It's not "easy" in the sense that you can move one tile to the side and not get hit. But it's still too dang easy. All you need to win is patience.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 00:54

#228

Batabii

@traevelliath
No, that's like the bus taking you a block...and you still have to walk 6 more.

@draycos
The spikes limit my freedom of movement regardless. And "walking in a circle" means you can't kill menders that hide in the middle.
Enemies always attack whoever's closer. If you knock a mecha into someone, they'll sure as hell take the hit.
You can't exactly walk forever, and mecha bullets have insane range. Thwack hammers have almost no warning and are hard to see in swarms of enemies. Bombs are hard to avoid when there's 30 of them all over the place.
If you move near menders, you're sure to get completely overrun by whatever the primary enemy is.
It's not too easy whatsoever. It's the hardest challenge in the game outside of bosses, Danger Rooms, and SLs.

And by the way, wearing full snarbolax set AND cold blooded III, and the greavers STILL freeze me.
Also, I only deal 327 damage. on Depth 26. With BTB.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 03:41

#229

Zeddy

Do the greaver hazes still freeze you or is it just the bite?

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 05:42

#230

President-Trump

@Zeddy

"Trojans are giant-class, not elite.

Elites that I know of:
Mecha Knight
Gremlin Thwacker
Gremlin Demo
Greaver"

I'm not interested in this thread itself as I don't think greavers are hard at all (yeah, UVs and stuff, whatever) but I'd actually like to gain some more knowledge regarding to monster levels.

The only Elite classed monsters I knew where Greavers and Mecha Knights, so here's the question:
How would one actually classify/distinguish between elite monsters and normal ones? I always thought Trojans were Elite as well as Slag Guards (To me it's either something that is not so easy to kill [Mechas] or something that doesn't spawn a lot [Trojans].

Now I'm thinking that, whatever monster exerts a 'Strong' status output - which one can't get immunity against no matter the level of status defence may be classified as Elite? I know that for Mechas they always do 3 seconds of their respective status no matter the players gear combination; however it is possible to be immune to Greaver's status cloud (maybe not the bite?).

I ran through IQ the other day with Freeze max Skolver and Freeze max Snarbolax Cap and a Polyp still managed to get me frozen for 3 seconds, that makes up an Elite Polyp I guess?
Cap: 3+4 freeze defence
Coat+ 4+4 freeze defence
Sums up to 15. 7 is enough for minor statuses and it goes up to 9 for moderate. Strong status can't be immune against.

I'd like more information regarding to this "Elite class monster" family. OR, maybe OOO should release an official list of Elite monsters? Greavers and Mechas are official since they were both mentioned in a patch.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 05:47

#231

President-Trump

@OP

As for BTB, solely shield cancelling won't work out that well unless your ASI is at somewhere between VH to Maximum, but still, it won't work out that well.
Try shield-switch cancelling. Much like alchemer switching, you attack with your btb, shield up, switch to another weapon and switch back and attack again. By this tactic you can get your toothpick to its edge of DPS, it's also safer since you'll always be shielding some greavers away.

The best way in my oppinion is still DBB or a hammer.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 06:30

#232

Traevelliath

Larry... I don't get you...

By your logic, you should just sell every piece of armor you have, because at some point you died using them.

If it helps you do more damage and it helps you take a few more hits, then by definition the armor is HELPING. It may not be the SOLUTION, but it can be PART of the solution.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 07:53

#233

President-Trump

Alright, I give up.

Out of curiosity I decided to try an ice fiend arena solo with the worst (well, without any UVs that will contribute to the matter) loadout I could find in my inventory.

My loadout looked like this:
Crown of Fallen (Plain, -2 to fiends +1 asi)
Volcanic Plate Mail (Fire max but so what? -1 asi)
This gives -2 to fiend and 0 asi in total.

My weapons:
Fire toothpick (Fiend med+Beast VH)
This ends up with 0 asi and 0 benifit against fiends in terms of UVs.

Combuster (CTR VH cons med)
I can't deal with lumbers without my Combuster, since the Batabii's major concern was Greavers this won't matter right? I could have brought a Polaris instead.

No trinkets and no Pet was used.

I blew my free revive right at the beginning due to annoying Gorgos, I can't seem to find a good tactic to deal with them besides spamming BTB charges and using my DBB. I personally hate them a lot, way more than Greavers. My BTB is way too OP and I decided not to bring DBB since I have a toothpick already, I need something against lumbers.

However everything else was fine, I managed to proceed to the last wave of the last room where the giant swamp of so-called-insane Greavers according to Batabii spawns, I cleaned them out easily using the corner tactic and my Flamberge. My real issue with this loadout is Gorgos not the Greavers. I SUCK at dealing with Gorgos.

If I'm able to do this Batabii you certainly should as well. Nothing in my loadout was OP - besides that Combuster but as I've stated above, eeet dong mattah.

I will upload this video and post the link tomorrow, it's almost 1am here in Australia (Yes, I'm also in the lagzone, 1~2 bars at best, there is no reason for a person with above 3 bars of connectivity to say swamps of Greavers are OP, insane or whatever. Not at all. Just no.)

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 11:21

#234

Voza-Il

Whoa, didnt realize you can still edit Gm edited posts!

As per the forum rules, please do not make personal attacks. Thank you.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 08:02

#235

Zeddy

@Materialist

Here's the monster classes I know of. These aren't necessarily the official names:

Mini
Grunt
Turret
Healer
Brute
Elite
Giant
Rare
Trap
Special

These classes determine where a monster can spawn in randomised levels. The classes, as far as I know, is not directly related to attack power, statuses, damage or health.

Minis can currently only spawn in compounds. They can spawn in predetermined mini spawn spots and stream out endlessly from holes.

For most other enemies, you can simply look at arenas:

Arenas usually open with four Grunts and two Turrets. Grunts are most enemies: Gremlin knockers, devilites, gorgos, wolvers, jellies, lichens, slimes, retrodes, scuttlebots, zombies, kats. Turrets include gun puppies, polyps and howlitzers.

Sometimes during the first room of an arena, two brutes will spawn. The third room has a spawn of two brutes + two healers and a different spawn of four brutes. Brutes are large, heavy-hitting and can take a beating. The only ones I know of are lumbers and alpha wolvers, but they might include lichen colony. Healers are obvious. They include gremlin menders and silkwings.

Elite enemies can no longer be found in clockwork tunnels. They usually spawn in groups of four in arenas and compounds. These include mecha knights, greavers, gremlin demos, gremlin scorchers and gremlin thwackers.

Giants are exactly what they sound like. Known giants are trojans and giant lichen colony. They only spawn at the end of the first room of arenas. (I'm not counting specialised randomised stages like lichenous lairs, danger rooms and danger missions for this).

You all know rare enemies. Impostocube in place of cube jellies, soul jellies in place of lichen-type slimes, love puppies in place of any turret-type enemy, rock jellies in place of rocks and mewkats in place of kats. Black kats are included here during the events.

Trap enemies are just whisps and shankles.

Special enemies are not included in the general random spawning pool. This is anything else I haven't mentioned. Bosses, deadnaughts, ghostmane stalkers, pit bosses, you name it.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 08:07

#236

President-Trump

@Voza-Il

You might be right but every player in this game needs to learn something at some point. When I first played I cried about Kats and Greavers molesting me and also Gremlins because my Polaris deals no damage. Batabii, instead of trying to let us conform to your gear selection how about you actually try and make suitable loadouts, you're in T3 right? You should.

I sucked at Gremlins, so I made an Acheron and spammed them to death.
I sucked at Fiends, so I made a Final Flourish to poke them but regardlessly I still sucked due to my connection issues I used to have and basically being a silly skilless freaking noob that thinks everything I couldn't kill was OP.
I sucked at FSC so I tried to solo it bit by bit eventually being able to solo the entire thing.
I sucked at RT so I actually watched videos and learned all tricks myself.
I wanted to master my gunning skills and became one of the first people to bring "dual-alchemer switching" into real action.
I sucked at grammar and spelling before the realisation of how stupid and retarded I look online therefore I tried my best to use appropriate puntuations and grammar. It takes a tiny bit more time to type "you're" instead of "ur" but it looks way better and educated. I'm a English speaker also a University student, why should I spel lyk a 8 yr old?
I sucked at geometry so I downloaded 30 years of past papers from 3 different schools and went into rage mode finally being able to deal with the majority of it in my High School Certificate Examinations.
This list continues.

We should always learn from failure and try to defeat out weakness instead of blindly asking for change even though it wouldn't happen.

There're plenty of great F2P and of course P2P players out there. Clwnbaby is one of them, every arena with him is basically a joke, we kill everything real fast and we both know what to do. Flowchart is also one of the best players I've met in this game, too many more to enlist.

For the Hammer DLC, use steam, buy if from someone with CE, you don't have to be P2P to get the DLC.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 08:11

#237

President-Trump

@Zeddy

Thanks a lot mate! That really helped!
"Gremlin Scorchers"; I was actually going to comment on them since they spawn in massive packs in arenas too.
They deserve to be elite.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 08:48

#238

Draycos

Voza, while I do have one stupidly-old grudge, posts like that aren't cool.

"The spikes limit my freedom of movement regardless."
They don't limit it any more than it's already limited, and there's no reason to get hit by them when you're picking off the last enemies in the wave. There's about three tiles between each spike pad, so unless you're falling asleep and/or laggy, you should never end up stepping on them.

"Walking in a circle means you can't kill menders that hide in the middle."
They sometimes start repeatedly dodging when you get close. Dealing damage to the rest of the enemies can prevent them from healing each other. In a single instant you can shove them your shield and then dash away if you were too slow, then pick them off from there. They're almost completely shut down by Poison and Curse (and totally shut down, with certain equips).

"Enemies always attack who's closer."
No they don't. Enemies will target whoever's closest until they take player-based damage; then they'll hunt that player down and only switch targets if someone else hits them more. This isn't to disregard area-of-effect attacks like Mecha spins, that don't need a specific target.

"You can't exactly walk [away] forever."
Yes you can...

"Mecha bullets have insane range."
They're also some of the slowest projectiles in the entire game, while still having predictable flight paths.

"Hammers have almost no warning and are tough to see in a crowd."
If you're doing what's sensible and constantly running away while using safe attacks (even swords' basic attacks can be "safe"), they won't be a problem. It's not like you'd be able to stay close for more than a split second without getting hit otherwise, anyway.

"Bombs are hard to avoid when there's 30 of them all over the place."
50% of them are in the center of the room. 20% of them are too far away to matter. 30% are being thrown at you. 10% are right next to you.
100% of them are completely nullified by walking around them (or if you're continually running away) thanks to their det times.

"If you go near menders..."
See other points regarding shoving, statuses, buggy dodging AI abuse.

"It's not too easy whatsoever. It's the hardest challenge in the game outside of bosses, Danger Rooms, and SLs."
Don't be silly; like I keep saying, all this particular wave is is a test of patience. Just like every single boss in the game. Hint hint.
The most challenging normal level set in the game? Dark City. Devilites are beautifully designed; you're punished for being Rambo, you're punished for standing still... but a skilled player with a good knowledge of what they do and when can hit them and dodge other projectiles at the same time, with swords like cutters, flourishes, and hammers. It's always fun to see how aggressive I can be while also being safe. Really wish there were more skill-intensive enemies.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 09:24

#239

Warp-Master

All right, this is going to

All right, this is going to be rather insulting, but since we've gotten nowhere over 5 pages I feel it needs to be said regardless. Sometimes you have to be blunt to have any hope of achieving a breakthrough.

Batabii, you are a whiny noob. The fine community of Spiral Knights has spent far more time than you deserve outlining a variety of useful tactics to defeat Greavers, and yet you toss them back at us and keep saying "no, that doesn't work, Greavers need nerfed" like a broken record. Several of these tactics (mainly Zeddy's Shard Squad videos) have been proven to work, and yet you still complain. In the face of such butthurt, I can only assume you are where you are today because you've been carried since rescue camp by friends and guildmates who are far better at this game than you are.

GET DUNKED, SON.

And after the Harlem Globetrotters have had their fun with your adamantine-plated cranium, go out and actually play the game. Practice. Run the first few strata on Elite. Learn to dodge. Do something to better yourself. Your soul will thank you.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 12:05

#240

Venomousbiohazard

@Warp-Master +1

Finally... Someone finally said what needed to be said. We've all given ways to fight greavers, ways that are proven to work. Either way, I don't think Batabii even wants to hear reason. You don't want a solution, you only want something to rant about. Many people have already told you how to deal with them, and yet you're still obstinately claiming that they need to actually be removed from the game. Nope! As we've said, they're pretty easy once you figure out how to deal with them. Also, this game needs all the content it can get. OOO simply can't remove something on the whim of one annoying kid.

So for the love of Cradle, just DON'T REPLY TO THIS THREAD. MOVE ON, DON'T BUMP IT. Goodness knows this thread has been cluttering General Discussion long enough. We've all given our tactics, and we all know that Batabii isn't going to listen, so why bother? Why waste your precious time telling a broken record how to kill greavers? Zeddy, I know you're dying to tell Batabii what's what but it'll all be useless in the end, because Bata will continue arguing, even in the face of all your help. Thanks for the tactics and videos though, they really helped me.

Bottom line: Let this thread die and move on with your lives, people.

EDIT: I know Batabii has replied, just don't say shizzle. LET THIS THREAD DIE.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 12:36

#241

Voza-Il

Lol at my previous post

Lol at my previous post XD

Now, I agree with biohazard, and in direct violation of what he said about moving on, I will agree.

How did this get to page 5 again?

DONT REPLY TO THREAD

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 12:14

#242

Batabii

@zeddy
It's the haze.

@materialist
I can either have damage bonus or asi, not both. And the only asi set I have is Fallen, which reduces my damage vs fiends.
There's clearly an issue when you do nearly the same thing as me (other than exact gear; the damage types are the same) yet we get totally different results. And it can't possibly be me because every other enemy is perfectly beatable. If I'm so "terrible" why is only ONE enemy type in the entire game a problem?

@zeddy
What do you mean mecha knights don't appear in clock work tunnels? I swear I've seen that.

@materialist
I'm not deliberately handicapping myself here. I'm trying to use reasonable setups without being REQUIRED to use rare, expensive stuff that most people will never have. My point is, greavers shouldn't be so insanely hard to beat that they have to have their own loadout.
I'm not the failure. The programmers are the failures.

@draycos
the "last enemies" are never the issue
Poison and curse are not always an option, and only gremlins dodge.
Whenever fight kats and devilites, they'll target me (out of the party) whether I hit them or not
No you can't. mecha knights and thwackers will eventually cut you off unless shield shove them constantly.
The bullets may be slow, but when you're dodging melee attacks and bombs and spikes at the same time, it only makes it harder.
Not true. While thrown hammers don't do extreme amounts of damage, I still get hit with them regardless because they're nearly impossible to anticipate and avoid.
That may be true, but they still greatly limit your mobility and add a lot of work.
Devilites are not much problem as long as you have room to dodge. I don't see how you can consider then hard and every other enemy in the game easy.

@venomous
stop lying. The problem was never resolved, and the problem was never me. If you're not going to help, leave me alone.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 12:52

#243

Venomousbiohazard

@Batabii

The problem was resolved. Videos displayed how to take them down. Strategies were given to counter them. However, you either claimed that "I don't have those equips" or simply shot down the strategy without actually trying it yourself . Many of the tactics have been proven to effectively take down greavers. However, you still continue arguing, even in the face of these facts. At this point, we've offered you so many solutions to your arguments and wasted so much time it isn't even funny. At this point, you are either a troll or just a very, very bad player. I think that it is the latter. Ironic, considering how you lambaste other inexperienced players in other threads.

There isn't any use arguing with you. I'd advise everyone else just to ignore this thread, let it die, and move on with their day

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 12:58

#244

Draycos

1. But it's specifically what you're complaining about. If you claim you're not when that's all we've been talking about the past few posts...
2. The only menders that really make a difference are Gremlin Menders, and they *do* dodge. Poison and curse are always an option, thanks to Vials, and you should at least find a poison vial every now and then.
3. Strange, that doesn't happen to me.
4. No they won't, if you're moving in a circle like you're supposed to. You can also burn your dash if you magically get yourself caught through some stroke of lag or bad playing.
5. Barely makes a difference.
6. Then that's your fault. I've never had problems with them, and I rarely watch for them- I just stay safe.
7. When nothing is inherently chasing you, it's not as much work as you imply it is.
8. I'm not saying they're "hard", I'm saying they're the hardEST. And by that I mean the most reasonably challenging and entertaining to fight. You don't get hit while meleeing them because you just happened to be unlucky (looking at you, Thwackers), and you can't move one tile to the side to dodge them.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 13:05

#245

Zeddy

Really can't remember last time I saw mecha knights in a clockwork tunnel outside of a danger room. Got any screenshots? It's certainly intriguing.

I'll investigate the greaver haze closer. It's a recent discovery and I might be wrong about it.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 13:26

#246

Batabii

@venomousbiohazard
Wrong. Said videos either used equipment and abilities not available to the average player, or simply did not work. And I did try every strategy that was shown. The only one trolling is you.

@draycos
1. No it's not. I'm not talking about 3 or 4 mecha knights, I'm talking when there's 14+ enemies on screen at once. That's when arenas are most challenging.
2. Vials are not a guarantee, and menders make any arena harder.
3. Well I don't know then.
4. Yes they will. It happens to me every time. That's not to say I can't beat them, but it requires a lot more skill and effort than you seem to make it sound.
5. Makes enough difference to make dying a possibility. ESPECIALLY if there's status involved as well.
6. How is it MY fault that I'm getting hit by an attack that has no warning or warmup? Sometimes they even hit me from offscreen!
7. There's ALWAYS something "inherently chasing you" in an arena. Even with the turret wave you're still being targeted constantly with waves of shots.
8. You're still implying they're the only remotely "hard" enemy in the game. Which is not true.

@zeddy
Next time I'm in a mechanized mile, I'll take a pic. I don't see why they would put devilites and thwackers all over and not mechas.

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 13:37

#247

Flowchart

I think +10 (ok, 9.5) is

I think +10 (ok, 9.5) is needed for greaver haze. Don't know if this is was changed somewhere along the line, but if I use that much in arenas/heart of ice/etc I don't get affected by it.

Also it was pointed out but the sprite ability Clwnbaby used in his video is not necessary, it's just to make it faster and you can substitute other sprite abilities if you want. You just need Dark Briar Barrage and CTR gear (then you don't need to worry about freeze since you're staying in one spot anyway)

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 13:38

#248

Batabii

The most I can ever possibly get right now without wasting trinket slots is snarbolax cap, skolver coat, uv freeze low, and cold blooded III. How much is that? Is it worth losing half my shadow defense?

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 13:45

#249

Flowchart

that's +11 so that'll be fine. I forget what the damage difference is (2 bars more damage or something like that) this thread seems to suggest that too

Mon, 09/02/2013 - 16:22

#250

Clwnbaby

@ Venomousbiohazard

That was my initial point with the "Greavers dont cheat you suck" comments. Ive known Battabi for quite some time and I've realized one inescapeable conclusion, he really sucks and will never get better. And how do i know this? Becasue he doesn't listen to anyone. Like you said MANY people have pointed out to him how to kill them....he just wont listen to any of them.

Still dont believe me? ask him ANYTHING! he'll give you the wrong answer

GREAVERS ARE EASY!

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Greavers STILL cheat! (this topic applies to ARENAS ONLY!!! Please stop implying I can't kill a single lone greaver)