@Terra

Just so Bata won't have to tell you this, he can't record.

Heee heee hee...I don't deem Snarby to be exactly 'easy' to obtain. Though F2P for sure, it's expensive. I still don't have it despite being a beta player.

as this has just become a thread involving strategies with various weapons to take care of greavers..

P.S. Larry, if you wouldn't have wasted all your time on snarby armor, you might have some of the gear zeddy's mentioned...

/e has nothing left to do here

wearing proto armor on Batabii's request.

Before anyone says "oh c42 is a danger mission so it's okay", keep in mind that a dev posted that the later rooms of arenas are supposed to be for experienced, geared players as well.

Nitronome also helps immensely, and Kat Hiss Cowl was MADE for this arena.

if u want kat hiss, go black kat hunting im mission alone in dark ive killed 20 black kats yesterday i hav kat hood to prove it

Well you make such a huge fuzz about them having three attacks, but you can be completely immune to one of them.

@ Everyone: You are all well-intentioned, I am sure, but most of you come across a bit as elitist jerks. Sorry for starting off a post like this, but he's right in that greavers are incredibly cheap enemies that I think unintentionally take advantage of some of the game's less polished mechanics and game statuses. Playing solo and getting shocked in a crowd of greavers that keep applying shock is akin to a death sentence, and assuming that you're not too proud to admit getting wiped by the ba**ards every now and then, you know it to be true that once that happens there is little you can do if you don't act fast enough. Their ferocity, status-affliction, bullets, AoE, large mobs, and the fact that they can easily spot you and cross the map at blinding speed make them rage-inducing opponents open to a whole manner of fast and cheap deaths.

But I think that is the point that most of you are making here - the only way to deal with greavers and their quick little berserker BS is to be even quicker.

@ Batabii: Your complaint is valid, but a bit whiny. I actually agree somewhat with what you said, but I think what's gotten most of these regulars all pissy was just the tone you've been using in your replies and in the OP. I can totally sympathize - fortunately, due to my own playstyle and preferences, I've been fighting quite a few rounds against greavers armed with only a BTB and a DVS recently and I'm still getting better at taking out 12-greaver waves without wiping. It's still hard and it takes practice, but it's doable.

To start, it's about keeping enemies spaced, which requires you to position yourself on the arena floor in a way that separates the greavers from any other monster types - away from silkwings or other bullet-spamming enemies like kats or turrets who can shoot over them. The less interference and interrupting bullet attacks, the better. This is made a little bit easier by the fact that they travel faster than almost everything except kats and seem to be able to spot you from farther away than most other monsters, so getting their attention and kiting them alone is easy as it is inadvertent.

Second step depends on how the greavers have themselves oriented: If they have you surrounded use the cutter just to interrupt them, as you know, the combo allows you to keep moving and slash around in an almost-360 degree arc. This won't kill them and on elite mode will hardly damage them, but it will buy you a few seconds to re-position yourself, hopefully into one where all the greavers are in front of you instead.

Third step is, once they are all neatly in your frontal cone, to quickly switch to a toothpick and spam the first swing via shield-canceling. For the entire time you fight them, keep moving away and repeating the cutter sequences if they start to flank you.

Step four would be "repeat", I guess, but in reality it hardly ever becomes that simple, as there are likely turrets and other enemies running around and attacking in tandem. I guess step four would really just be "make small adjustments in accordance to your surroundings". If there are kats, try and get a few smacks at them with your flourish if you can create gaps in between their attacks, or keep re-positioning to stay away from turrets. Stuff like that.

When I don't have a BTB to complement my DVS, it's usually a Combuster instead - going back to step one, if you know where they are going to spawn, you can start charging a brandish, wait for them to show up, and with a bit of timing put a blockade of 'sploding fireballs in front of them. As you know, they always make a straight bee-line at you, so guessing the trajectory path of your charge should be easy. If they're coming in from all sides, you probably won't have time to throw another charge attack at them, but you'll at least kill two or three before dealing with the rest.

Taking out waves of greavers with fast swords only all hinges on quick thinking and crazy-fast reaction time. I suggest ASI trinks if you can get any, and wearing armor that increases attack damage - I currently rock a snarby set (Skolver's fine too. They hit so hard on elite that I can hardly tell the difference). My strategies are simple, but require being able to hit hard, hit fast, and then GTFO of there via the dodge button, or if like me you chose the maskraith, cloaking and setting up time for an ambush as well as collecting heart dropped by dead greavers and etc.

If you don't have damage, speed, or either, it means that you will need to be more strategic and become better at where you position, run, and as well as timing your strikes as w/o damage the fast sword approach will drag on longer. Less speed is not as bad as a lack in damage, but will require more practice on timing the swings.

I frankly have no idea how skilled you are despite your time playing this game, but I hope some of that was helpful without being too patronizing.

I'm referring to the post where he said he was looking for a strategy to taking out waves of the things with only a "base loadout", which according to him was a cutter and a toothpick, I felt obliged to answer and give some tips because coincidentally I do exactly this on almost every playthrough and more often than not, succeed. There are easier ways that don't depend on "twitchiness and 1337 skills" (For some reason, I found this sentence funny - in a good way: it's something I'd describe Hotline Miami as, which my style takes after), but with only small fast swords with no extra weapon slots unlocked, that is usually what it comes down to.

Timing, prep, foresight and not losing your s*** in the middle of a fight is all in my stratagem too, but just applied differently. You're right, there are better ways; but I'm merely giving him the information I assumed he wanted to know. It's hardly different than you yourself telling/making videos of yourself running arenas and bosses solo with only bombs (That is, if I'm correctly interpreting those videos to be for tutorial purposes). It's not so much about being efficient as it is maximizing the use of a preferred play style. I mean, I usually don't take my DVS to shock/fiend arenas - I still use swords, but it's usually a Combuster/BTB combo and the fights are relatively easy.

Also, I'm not saying we nerf them at all. We've had waaaaay too many nerfs, but despite this I still acknowledge that they throw some pretty cheap shots, especially as server stability seems to worsen with every patch. And to be clear, I am and have been, in this post and my last, referring exclusively to the shock-inflicting variety found en mass in arenas. Any other variety except perhaps for freeze greavers hardly even register as threats to me personally.

Comparing mechaknights to shock greavers is like apples to oranges. The individual traits of one monster can stack up in ways that outclass others. I noticed that you failed to mention that greavers also:

+show up in swarms from as small as four to as numerous as twelve, as numerous as the mechas.
+the strikes, bullets, and AoE all occur at the same time. They don't have other attacks because they likely don't need other attacks.
+Since it's also usually in a fiend arena, they also usually come along with spookats, devilites, and undead turrets as well as silkwings - trying to fight greavers as well as kats that don't get canceled adds a whole new stack of frustration.
+Since they can spot you from anywhere on the map, the travel times between greavers means that they are usually also attacking out of sync, meaning that sword users have to mash the first swing to keep down what seems to be a constant stream of attacks by different greavers. Mechaknights can at least be kited in a way that they pool together and attack at relatively the same time.

Leaving that out feels disingenuous, even if you are just making a point. You know that regardless of almost any lag issues, Mechaknights are immensely the more manageable of the two if you have a brandish, gun, bomb, etc, that can kite well. Their strengths and weaknesses balance out in a way that is hard, but leaves room for error; when caught by mechas, even if shocked, retreating and regrouping is still easy. The issue with greavers, I feel, is that they have their strengths stacked together in ways that go more for kicking you when you're already down. When hit by a greaver, the bullets and AoE together make for a high shock chance that gives them time to encircle you, and attack. Getting out is usually hard, as you then have to time your retreat, anticipate shock spasms, fend off the greavers locked on and about to attack, and still try to kite everything else in the arena. Unlike mechas who give enough time for you to multitask, I find I can't really attack the turrets or kats due to them always being in my face, so taking out the sources of bullet spam, which also apply shock, makes it invariably harder.

And I think that's what annoys most players - making mistakes against a greaver swarm is much more punishing while also being much more difficult to recover from.

*Some other misc. points (in no real order at all)*:

- Yeah, the game tells you to take on Vana with a group, but they tell you "OMG GET FRIENDS, THIS ONE'S GONNA BE SUPER SERIAL!" for a lot of the missions. Seeing how most of those other missions were easily done solo, I don't think mission descriptions are a good indicators of difficulty. Vana and a few others OFC are different because they're raid bosses, also they for the most part are pretty fair and balanced, even while solo. I mean, how many people come to the forums screaming "NERF VANA!" or "NERF SNARBLES!"

*EDIT* (Wait, crap. Royal Jelly - Never mind that last point.)

- Shard bombs not being able to kill the twins is more of a developer oversight than an intentional handicap. The old RSS-line could definitely take out the roarmies, and by extension, so can most bombs... if you're inhumanly patient. Their inability to hit them is probably the result of some broken mechanics and the lack of other, alternative high-damage elemental bombs itself is also probably an oversight.

*EDIT 2: Electric Boogaloo* If anything in the above seems to be based on a misunderstanding, it probably is - call me out on it and I'll clarify/revise. I tend to do that.

"Rest assured it's full Chaos under that costume, and no trinkets."

Howcome at about 0:19 you have 4 seconds of Freeze resist? Surely if you had full chaos and no trinkets you had a TON of Freeze resistance. Even with my Seerus Mask with -2 Poison I take 12 seconds of Poison from C42.

Inb4 Larry "you are geared for it" and something about pay to win

Clwnbaby: The guy in the vids has a Maskeraith and is using the Hexes. Batabii has Seraphinx, far as I recall, therefore your videos hold no water in this regard.

Batabii: Have you got a DA or Suda? Last thing I can think of before giving up on this. So long as you time your last kill right so you aren't surrounded when they spawn and don't go swinging like a lunatic, you should be okay. I think.

Don't know if I said this before, but "Less prone" doesn't mean "eliminated" or "nullified".

clwn, greavers are and were always one of the most challenging enemies in SK. the thing you find them easy doesn't prove anything.

I also am of the opinion that they need to be toned down (or better yet, removed). Soloing them is a death sentence, and even when in groups they are very hard (anyone remember the Christmas event?). As a single enemy they aren't hard but they always spawn in groups of 3 or more and that is just too many to cope with, especially the shock or fire-dealing ones.

You say Greavers are easy and that Batabii sucks yet you just about scraped through that Arena in one piece.

LOL okay buddy..... I looked fine to me....and the only things that dmg me WERE NOT GREAVERS. Greavers are easy!

@ Zeddy:

True - the projectiles are the largest problem as they can reach and interrupt you from over and beyond the greaver swarm while you can't reach them likewise. I forget who said it, but best sound advice I've heard on these forums regarding fiends is to never stop moving. simple, but works wonders if you can run and fight and the same time.

Eh, sound advice, but I stay away from the center as to not aggro more bullet-spammy enemies like kats or howlitzers that could also spawn with them. It's just my pref in kiting them.

@ Batabii:

I practice fencing and from the hilt I'd say the T3 Flourish family is more based on fencing sabers than traditional rapiers, but that's all petty semantics, as TBH the mix of slashing and stabbing doesn't really fit either weapon (you actually can stab while fencing saber, but it's just... unorthodox). I call them "toothpicks" because compared to all the bigger, wider and beefier swords like the Heavies and the Brandish line, they are significantly slimmer and pointier - kind of like a toothpick. Plus, it's the long-established nickname for the weapon line in the LD community. It's kind of infectious. Point being, despite the nickname it's not a demeaning term as far as I'm aware of - it's just casual slang within the SK community.

Anywho, on to less nitpicky matters:

I only mentioned that I had Snarby because it is what I actually own, most other players do just fine with the much more accessible Skolver gear. The point is to get sword damage bonuses, and the wolver line is the most direct way in obtaining them. Vog also can work well into getting you ASI to make shield-canceling faster and thus better at keeping them at bay - even if you do have to swat them a few more times to compensate.

If you don't want to go wolver, then try the Valkyrie line, I don't know for sure, but I think one of them boasts a specialized damage bonus against fiends (DMG Against Fiends Medium per piece) that with the full set ends up being the same as wolver (DMG Bonus Very High).

Anything outside those two lines (except perhaps skelly... "perhaps"), then you're intentionally making it harder for yourself to deal with greavers specifically. There's a reason why most end-game players don't use the chroma lines and the rest of the junk sets other than as costumes.

Also:

BTB shield cancel - How did it not work? Move away from them in a way that gets them centered in front of you, swing, shield, swing, rinse, repeat. I mean, aside from nuking them with a DBB it's the simplest manner of dealing with them. I mean, cutters suck and their techniques need practice, but a few smacks with a toothpick should kill any greaver in the way of it's swing arc. If you need more power, use a Divine Avenger - you'll need to time it well to make up for the slower swings, but it has an even wider arc, has more knockback, and while it only does normal damage to them, still does more than a toothpick.

Trinkets are really not that p2w - trink slot upgrades are not that expensive and the price of the CE (or whatever the new term is, I don't care) used to obtain them can be earned from a few FSC runs. Nothing unreasonable. Perhaps certain trinks are unfair in LD, but it seems to be considered 'free game' in the clockworks (Triple Max UVs on the other hand are pretty much p2w in my opinion due to the obscene amount of CR, CE and even real world money needed in order to roll continuously to get them, but that's another argument for another thread). Honestly, they're not needed to take on greavers. Fighting them, from my perspective is more about timing and maneuvering than it is raw speed, which is all my trinks give me.

I think sprites do matter and aren't enough of a factor to unbalance whatever "fairness" is left in this game, as all of them can affect your approach on taking out this type of fiend - drakons have that revolving fire shield, Maskwraith has both the cloak and the haze, and seraphinx - I see everyone else has covered the seraphinx. Ninja'd. I mentioned my sprite because once again, it's what I use and the reason I chose it in the first place was out of foresight that a retreat option such as the cloak would probably be a really, really good investment. Like trinks, they help but really aren't vital at all for taking on greavers. I mean, I've been clearing them out with swords well before the sprite patch, and could keep doing it without them. They're really just what I said above: a fall-back plan for worst-case scenarios. If you handled the fight well and were successful, then you probably won't need them at all.

Insert various Larry comments about pay to win gear and op sprites.

Oh and partying up.

Disregarding the fact I planted the DR entirely by accident, and further disregarding that it would've made no difference at all, and even further disregarding that I haven't used Hexing Haze in any videos before that, you've entirely missed my point.

Yes, Greavers are harder if you're ill-prepared. But they're easier than Mechas if you are well-prepared.

Thanks for the tips. Now a single Greaver no longer wrecks my day (didn’t know any weapon could cancel their attack XD).
Now a large group of them is another story…
Though I guess that’s because I’m a gunslinger and Greavers seem to be especially designed to get rid of us, just like Mecha Knights seem to be especially designed to get rid of swordsmen.
At least my friend that uses swords beats Greavers with all ease, while Mecha Knights give him lots of trouble.

Anyway, regarding the thread’s title, I think Greavers do cheat… I mean, I’ve been frozen by a Greaver attacking from the other side of a closed gate or block! D:
And even when I’m running from them, it often happens that their attack misses, but I still get status effects! >.<
Does this make any sense!? Has anyone else noticed this? (I’m still on Tier 2, by the way.)