Sad how they could literally and simultaneously put off MANY players who actually enjoyed this pretty fun game.

with the absolutely ABSURD increase in ce cost to craft 4* and 5* gear there is LITTLE reason for long-term players to continue playing as regularly. how they can rationalise the increase of ce cost of crafting 5* gear from 250 to 800 is beyond me. Of course this doesn't help bringing in new ppl to the community either, coz a grand portion of newcomers arrived to Haven based on word-of-mouth from existing spiral knights. i myself recommended at least 3 people to the game, and now that this update has come to fruition, i doubt ill even mention it.

Newcomers are gonna look at these increased costs, and just giv up. the time invested to get such gear is not worth it. I personally wouldve preferred a relatively substantial increase in recipe crown costs and a maintenance of ce costs for crafting. it would encourage more running that's for sure.

also the auction house, though a necessary addition, is rly clunky to use. it's good that the AH will generally level out mat costs (which is great for newcomers). however the 10% fee is definitely too hefty and will for sure affect the popularity of using the AH. a 2-5% fee would b understandable, but 10% takes the crown for pure greed.

Also the addition of the new training grounds is pretty stupid. there's a tutorial for that which we even pay mist to go thru, so they couldve just added a few things in that tutorial. good to kno ur thinking of the newcomers, but the other changes in this recent update will for sure turn off the newcomers ur trying to bring in.

"The funniest part is how the GM that replied is actually contradicting:

He first makes it clear that our feedback is important, and then makes clear that no matter how much feedback we give. They won't change it untill hard statistics prove something.

In other words. We won't get the changes until they get "statistics"."

_________________
Agreed man. What sort of statistics should we give them? Someone should start a thread/post to urge everyone to not buy any CE.

They want statistics? We'll give em statistics. How about a fat drop in sales?

@Collussus

Bosses now drop a single, giant boss token that distributes boss tokens based on participation in the boss dungeon. The more levels you complete of each boss dungeon (in that run) the more boss tokens you have the chance to earn. The only way to guarantee a chance at the maximum number of tokens is to start a boss dungeon from the first level of that boss dungeon (from the terminal).

On top of the italicized parts, it says from the terminal. Where basil is. The first level of the boss dungeon for JK from the terminal is depth 15.

Ok so after checking out all the new changes now, I stand by my only complaint being the new crafting costs:

- I think its going to mess up the energy/crown market which has been pretty stable lately (even decreased during the Rose Regalia event!)... granted it will stabilize again, but I have a feeling its going to wind up a bit higher (which is why I invested in 1k CE tonight)

- People are quitting over it (which is pretty silly, I'm going to ride this update out.. but its not good for business). The level of effort required to play the game completely free is going to get harder and will turn many players off.

- Most people are going to craft ONLY what they need in the game, which as we've discussed, boils down to a few sets out of all those available (those suited for Jelly King and Vanaduke runs)... so people are going to craft less alternates and people probably won't be utilizing costume slots as much.

- The value of purchased CE (with real money) is not as high as it was before now that the best equipment costs more in terms of CE, so more people are going to feel like they are getting ripped off

- Complaints of this game not being F2P (which I didn't feel were valid before) will now be less invalid

I have a feeling the feedback will result in something to fix this, maybe a more moderate/fair increase in crafting costs. So I will give it the benefit of the doubt, but between this and the lack of real new content (not to knock the Auction House, which is a great addition, but until new levels and enemies start showing up..) ...well I probably won't be playing nightly anymore. :/

i hope they actually read ALL the constructive comments they've received here.

Sux to b Eurydice though. probably not her (it's the name a nymph right??) fault and first day on the job she gets this :P

Unfortunately, this update added an auction house and at the same time removed the primary reason for it to exist. What exactly was wrong with being able to trade items after upgrading them? It created a kind of choice--either you try out the new item to see if you like it, or you keep it unbound to see if someone else wanted to buy it from you. It seems like there's supposed to be a leaning towards making your own equipment, but the level 5 and level 10 level requirements were already a pretty great incentive towards that, and now with the decreased recipe costs it's much more possible for people to make their own stuff themselves... or at least it would be, if the energy costs hadn't also been increased more than double.

From the NPC dialogue and tier entry notices it seemed like the main draw of the higher levels was less in how many stars your equipment had, but what equipment it was, and how you went about using it. I really liked this idea, because it meant that it's entirely possible to get a 5* piece of equipment in a reasonable amount of time, but yet also meant that the real "pro" part lay in the combination of understanding the item statistics AND tactics for how to fight certain enemies and bosses. So if you got a 5* item, that was wonderful, but you were only just beginning to get into the difficult, and more interesting part of the game. Variety is great, but this huge increase of crafting energy costs means that people will have to decide near the beginning what equipment they would like to have, end game, and this also makes updates where you guys put in more weapons and armor a lot less "yay"-worthy. After all, what's the point of having new weapons and armor if it's just not feasible to MAKE them? There may be something to be said for having good equipment giving you more money faster to make new things, but I'm nearing 5* equipment range, and I've heard people much STRONGER than me saying how long it will take to do.

Not only that, but the energy cost is not likely to stay the same. Energy costs will probably increase to levels far higher than they are now. Doing the math on the current economy, the cost of recipes went down by 20,000crowns, but the crafting cost went up by 5*5000=25000crowns. That's not that much of an increase, right? But taking into account that the price of energy is likely going to skyrocket, crowns will be greatly devalued, which will imbalance the two and make crowns far closer to worthless, and energy too costly to be something people will want to buy. And what exactly is the point of buying high level recipes, which I assume is the reason for the price decrease, if you can't trade the items you make with them? It seems like you've changed the balance of these two currencies for no good reason, at a time when they were stabilizing out. If you keep the same prices for crystal energy too, many of the players that can't or are unwilling to buy energy for some reason will resent the people that do for being -far- greatly richer than them in the currency that matters the most.

For the boss tokens thing, I understand that one, and I think it's a good idea. All but the phrase "chance to earn" that is. I liked that hearts could be picked up by every knight once they appeared, and I liked also that tokens spread across all of them equally too, it seemed like a great idea to encourage people to work together instead of fight each other for resources. Do you think you could change it so that if everyone in the party participates through the entire dungeon, or at least participates equally compared to another member, they would receive an equal number of tokens? I think it would help with the theme of working together if people weren't bitter (even a little) at lucking out and getting less tokens than everyone else. Random luck I think would make people less inclined to try fighting bosses if they normally didn't, and it might cause party tension, or at the least, party annoyance, especially since you can't trade tokens if you WANT to split them equally for all members.

Talking with an IRC channel about this, some people have mentioned that some of the things that the advanced training hall has to offer are things they had the most fun figuring out by themselves. I haven't checked it out yet myself, but if there isn't, maybe you could put a tiny disclaimer on it saying that people might have more fun if they learn on their own. That being said, good job for putting it in, it sounds like a great idea. I haven't yet heard anyone complain about the Basil change; in my opinion it's perfectly reasonable.

There are at least 150 comments saying how ass this update is. Why hasn't it been fixed yet.

Three Rings really needs to step back and take a look at why people play their game.

The thrill of SK is hunting monsters, raiding treasure holds and finding rare materials. Being able to tackle this with a group of friends (recipe sharing etc) made it that much more fun. Reduced mats and increased energy requirements make the game about either endless grinding or spending real money for equipment. Recipe collecting as a group is dead now too.

Note to the Devs: I will never, ever buy CE. If my choices are A: grind or B: spend cash, I will choose C: different game.

I would however pay for extras that enrich my game experience like the ability to customize armor, a guild hall with its own elevator or access to higher end game modes like an open world or point/territory control .

Admittedly, there are some good things in this update. But these good changes are so overshadowed by the bad ones that I think I'll be leaving this game forever.

I've been wanting an auction house for some time now. Sadly, I wanted it in order to buy 4 and 5 star items; this means that the auction house has become worthless to me. Buying these items from the trade market was the only reason I purchased CE in the first place. I'm certainly not going to keep buying CE just for alchemy costs when I have to spend all day leveling my items up.

Too bad. I really liked this game. Guess I'll just use my remaining CE and say goodbye.

i always disliked sega
i was starting to like this game (i have played it for less than a week and i really liked it so i spend $2.50. i NEVER spend money on computer games unless i play them for more that a month and still like them so spending even this little in such a short time should tell how much i liked the game) but now i can see that this is one of those "f2p" kinda games not like LoL which u can play for as song as u want without having to spend a single dollar those are truly f2p games (btw i already spend more that $20 dollars in LoL and i will probably keep doing so) but for SK no more my friends. IF i keep playing i swear to every1 in this forum that i will not ever, EVER even if they fix the disaster they just made and get things to be more F2P i will still not pay them a single penny just because OOO is such a horrible company... same goes for sega (never again will i buy anything from sega since i played sonic and the black knight waste of $50)

i want to encourage every1 else to do so and never again waste your money on this game because they might slap and spit in your face in future patches so that way you can stop playing without having the remorse of leaving a game in which u spend 20+ dollars

this reminds me at the "five year plan" USSR- might be sega trying to regain funds since all their games have been a complete fail and they might be close of having to sell to nintendo (but all this are just assumptions of mine)

shame on you OOO and sega such transparent rip-off and desire to exploit the gamer community good games dont need to do this to get money from their gamers
good games are F2P and still get high profit, ur attempt of making ur gamers pay more will only cost u millions of customers and in the end less profit
happy customers buy more, more players more chances of selling and more selling in general
angry customers dont buy as much, less players less chances of selling and less seling in general (i can see this game going to the ground)

I wish as a buyer of material I can put an offer in such as

200 Shards for x price (total price)

Since currently the way the auction house is set-up:

Sellers have all control wish it went both ways.

The boss update is actually from the BEGINNING of the boss dungeon to the boss himself. So for the Jelly King, that's only the Palace, nothing before that is really needed for maximum tokens. Honestly, I like this system, seeing as how we finally get compensated properly for all our hard work, plowing through those levels.

As for this update, it has all the promise to fulfilling every dream of a casual player. An auctionhouse to standardize prices (and perhaps lower them), a training room so we can understand all those little features of dungeons. Something to prevent Basil vending. You made the game so that players will actually have to play and be rewarded for doing so. I love and thoroughly support this. But little did we know what price this would come at. Really? I mean, have you even looked or even considered what exactly these costs even mean? Making a 5* weapon now costs pretty much the same as what you would get from paying $3.00. And that's not even counting the total cost of crafting an item from 2 to 5. I could stand the other things that have been done in the past. But this?

You've lost me.

I loved this game. I won't lie. I watched it from its growth since Fall of 2009 and its development into what it is today. I was proud to be a player of this and advertised it to all whom I knew. I purchased a substantial amount of CE not as way to get ahead in the game, but in a gesture of support for what I felt was the perfect game. I loved the asthetics, I loved the community. And up until now, I loved the game mechanics. Yes, it was more or less dependent on the purchase of CE if you wanted to play for more than one run per day. But I could live with that.

On this day, I ask: Why?

You gave the silent majority what we've wanted all along, but at a price that makes us regret ever wishing or dreaming of these. You want statistics? Just go into your own game and listen to what's being said. Listen to the guild chats. Listen to this board. What will it take you to realize what exactly you've done? Are you only willing to look at your wallets? Do the cries of the scores of players currently online not count as evidence enough? It's sad, because although this game has some of the most responsive staff in any game I've ever seen, I fear that our cries on this day will fall upon deaf ears. Let me lay it down for you. Crafting prices are far too high. Charge us more crowns as you wish, but CE is a precious commodity, one that is difficult to obtain for the average, casual player.

As for me, I'm afraid I'm hanging up my swords and guns up for now. I'll be on for my friends and the community that I've fallen in love with, but not journey into the clockworks. All I have left for me to enjoy in this game is now the company of my friends, and honestly, until you start charging me CE for using guild chat, it is the friendships that I'll ever log in for until action is taken.

Goodbye, Spiral Knights, I loved what we had.

I wanted to post those as a joke, not sure if everyone will appreciate it, but if those people who no longer wish to play this game due to the recent update would please forward me their mats and jazz that would be awesome, in game name - melodramatic

So I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, yet (I stopped fully reading things after the second page because it's not my job to sift through everyone's complaints and demands for refunds and whatnot), but!

My constructive criticism is this: The energy cost for crafting should not have changed. At the very least, not to the magnitude by which it has. The crown cost of crafting should have doubled though. By making crafting cost more energy, there is going to be a huuuuge spike in the CE/Crowns market, as crowns are no longer worth anything (especially with the recipe prices so much lower!) and CE is in high demand.

While making the Auction House crowns-only, you were taking a step towards making crowns more valuable, you took away the only thing that would have made crowns more valuable (the ability to buy and sell 4star and 5star items).

I also feel like it's a tad unfair to give people with unlearned recipes a refund, as more than likely they were going to resell them for profit anyway. And you just gave them a huge return that's going to allow them to buy and resell recipes with greater ease now, while those of us who have already learned our recipes are going to struggle getting new ones. Personally, I feel as though I have been reprimanded for trying to progress in the game earlier than others simply because I've been playing since the launch, and have had the time to get stuff.

I feel a little hurt by this, because there isn't much of a difference between people who have already learned their recipes and those who have not. Other than the fact that the people who have unlearned recipes can now make a huge profit between selling it for even a 2k markup and the nice refund they must have gotten, while people like me who have learned recipes made a commitment to certain items and get nothing for it.

If you really feel like it would create a huge influx of crowns (the only viable explanation I can think of), then simply put a cap at 50 or 100k if they have over x number of recipes. I can only imagine certain avid recipe resellers made at least 100k off of this, as it stands.

like this game a lot, but this is too much. I'm quitting for now.
like this game a lot, but this is too much. I'm quitting for now.
like this game a lot, but this is too much. I'm quitting for now.
like this game a lot, but this is too much. I'm quitting for now.

The community was small enough lol. They will lose, to my prediction, 30~40% of their trade volume (initially) and perhaps taper down to roughly 25% loss. Know this: The game is barely 2 months old. Player count is a greater commodity to you at this juncture. Far greater a commodity than any amount of US dollars will be.

Please undo this...it was a large part of the economy both internal and for the purchase of CE. It cause interaction between players, and gave guildies something to help each other with, leveling items for them or trading items, I was leveling items for a guild competiton but none of that anymore. You added the auctionhouse as you remove the single biggest mover/shaker in the game besides the CE market.

I believe those who design this update needs some brain surgery, because they cant think before act. I'm quitting. Bye

As this post already commented: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/8527?page=2#comment-45259

Dear Eurydice, and other devs GMs 3R CEO,

The Auction house was an amazing idea, it will make 2-channel more clean and Materials market easier to deal with. Great, really.

Boss Tokens is kind of fair, Basil thing as well, but still need to be better thought out.

The 4*5* crafting thing, here it comes:

I could say this was a @#$*&# and lots of worse terms XD But I'm being really serious here, and wished some guys could coop with me so we can make this better.

If the reason was money income for OOO, and I bet it was. Think about it.

I'm a crafter. I will sell someone a 5* Leviathan, with no UV, simple deal. (using the before-update system)

For me to forge/craft it, I'll need to buy a Calibur recipe, and craft it. Then I'll buy a Tempered Calibur recipe, and craft it. Then I'll level it up 'til Heat 5, yeah, lots of runs around the ClockWorks. Then I'll buy a Ascended Calibur Recipe and Craft it with the Level 5 Tempered. After that I'll go down again, and level it up to 10. After that, I'll buy a Leviathan recipe, get everything together and Craft it with my level 10 ascended Calibur. ONLY THEN I'll sell it to the customer.

You killed all that proccess, but check the numbers.

Calibur: 1k Crowns (recipe), Materials (I'll look, at least 40CE), Craft 50CE + 400 Crowns.

Tempered Calibur: 5500 Crowns (recipe), Materials (60CE on hunting), Craft 100CE + 1000 Crown.

Ascended Calibur: 15000 Crowns (recipe), Materials (80CE on Hunting), Leveling up the Tempered Calibur 100CE (Tier 2), Craft 200CE + 2000 Crown.

Leviathan: 45000 Crowns (recipe), Materials 100CE, Leveling the Ascended 200CE (at least, and on Tier 3), Craft 400CE + 5000 Crowns.

Yeah, you can correct where I'm wrong, I'm not a great Crafter after all (don't even have a 5* yet).

The important thing is, how much CE ( and dollars) have you got from that?

And after it, the customer will still have to buy at least 3000CE (I think you can find Leviathans for 5000~8000CE depending on any UV or just the market price).

I think you guys did it wrong, really. I don't mean to offend anyone, I just want a better game where I can have fun and call my friends to join me.

And the people that post after me, take this in consideration and quote/correct me, I think we can make a difference if we join forces. After all, without us, this game would be nothing...

Thanks for all the hard work, everyone.

This update is going to be a game killer for many many people. I can understand that OOO wants people to play full dungeons and work towards improving their own gear rather than just buying their way into tier 3. That WAS pretty lame.... But the problem I'm having is the way OOO implemented their changes. There has to be a better way.

MAJOR changes were made to the crafting system. There will be no more crafting for profit, since the only profitable items(4-5*) being sold will now automatically be bound to the crafter. It will also take significantly more effort in order to craft these items in the first place. This may not be too bad, but OOO over-did it big time. Anyone not willing to spend real money on energy, will be left in the dust. 400 CE for a 4* item? 800 CE for a 5*? My question to OOO is: Do you even want people playing in the dungeon or doing nothing for 2 weeks to save the energy to craft one item? This change will NOT coerce the F2P players to buy energy with real money like you want. They will just quit and choose 1 of a million other F2P online games. The players that have stockpiled CE/CR with all 5* gear will be unaffected. Why would they bother crafting more gear(thus requiring them to buy more energy from you) when they have what they need already, and cannot sell their items?

The auction house. Why do we need the AH now that were basically forced to make our own gear? The AH would have been a GREAT fix for the way the SK economy worked BEFORE THE PATCH. But the crafting changes and going to drastically change the economy anyways...

And since OOO decided not to give any notice about these major changes, nobody had time to prepare for them. And that is causing a lot of outrage. That is obviously not a move you make if you care about your playerbase... I hope OOO takes the time to read this entire thread several times though and think about what people are saying.

This incident reminds me of how Blizzard Entertainment decided to force their players to use REALID. I think this patch will last about the same amount of time(what, a couple days?) before the devs pull their heads out of the dirt and make necessary changes.

As for me, I feel betrayed. From day one I've worked to collect many/all recipes in hopes of becoming a master crafter. What a damn waste of time it all was... You only got 10 bucks from me but I promise you that you won't get anymore as long as the crafting system is screwed. Why even have a crafting system if you cannot trade/share the items? Just sell the items to players at a damn vendor.

I'm 100 % agreeing with what Markmschon said.

These are my comments about the new Update :

Trade Market:
Since 4* n 5* gears has been taken out from the market, people are unable to make extra CROWNS/ CE for daily basis usage. N also CE market is also bound to increase for over these past few days or maybe weeks because the Crafting BULLS$#@ !!

Advanced Training Hall:
As much as I hate this Update. This is an awesome idea, so far i think this is the only thing that is worth happy about.

Auction House:
Great Idea but it has been done wrong. Sorting system isn't that great. It's quite confusing if i say so myself.

Recipes Price reduction:
It's not doing any good if the things that we are making need crazy amount of Energy !!!

Crafting CE requirement increase:
3* gear From 100 CE to 200 CE = 200% more
4* gear From 200 CE to 400 CE = 200 % REALLY ?
5* gear From 300 CE to 800 CE = 267 % WTF !?
BULL CRAP !! Because of this CE market is going to be sky high. I doubt running a couple dungeon can earn enough CROWNS to buy them.
Oh wait we can buy CE with really Money right !? 1600 for $4.95 ?
Oh how much does it cost to make a 5* gear ? 800 CE which means u need $2.50 to make them !!
Come on now isn't that a little too much ? FOR REAL ?

Conclusion :
I hate this Update really really REALLY MUCH, if you are asking for my Feedback. I don't see how people can make their way up to Tier3 dungeon without paying more than $50 worth of CE in this game. Yes I understand there is a OPEN TRADE Market for CE, I can't see how people can manage to not buy CE from THREE RINGS since CROWNS you make from running dungeons can't cover the cost for buying CE market.

I'm sorry to say that this update has completely ruined this game for everyone. I'm quiting this game even though I really liked this game really much, in fact this is one of the best MMO I played.

LoL You guys realised that it takes almost 5 Dollars for a player to make a 5* Item now? That taking into account only energy costs. 5 dollars for EACH 5* item you'll make. Even if you never pay for CE those 5 Dollars per item are coming from someone else's pocket. This is just ridiculous.

On a related (but not touched upon note)
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My mailbox now has about 100 "You have been outbid" notices, which I will now have to click through individually to retrieve my crowns.

Perhaps there is a better way to do this?

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As long as the developers learn to swallow their pride and make some changes, this might turn out okay. Internet over-reactions aside, slightly lowering recipe costs and dramatically raising the actual cost to craft? Dumbest idea ever. Might want to look into firing who thought of that, although "thought" is a strong word for such a terribly mislead decision. This was unnecessary. There are a lot of other ways to make money, if you think CE sales were dropping. That is another thread if you want suggestions on that though.

Auction house and training is cool, but it doesn't make up for murdering innocent children, I mean, you know what you did.

What I thought was a great, fun and simple game has now become pretty much worthless. My friends and I each had dropped $25-30 into this game. We worked together to find recipes and were planning on trading gear. None of us had bought our way to 5* and even if we had how would that not put more money in your pockets? There are many many ways of stopping people from buying their way to 5* but this has to be the worst idea. One poster mentioned not allowing you to buy gear above what you have bound to you, which is very sensible to me.

OOO I hardly knew you, i had hopes with this game but they have been dashed. Sega I was a huge fan back in times you made consoles but after watching you makes mistake after mistake I find only a sad sense of pity and disappointment.

The times were good while they lasted but I'll not be playing till this issue is resolved in a more mature and sensible way.

Captain Delicious