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5/17/2011 release feedback thread

478 replies [Last post]
Wed, 05/18/2011 - 07:17
#351
razorjugo
Legacy Username
its a different game

in short i want a refund of my money. i payed for "another" game. its not fair that u gave a new binding rule where there are ppl that actualy did leveling all over again and crafting all over again so that they could sell those items to other ppl. its a free to play game. u just force ppl to pay u money now so they could play normaly, because with the enery cost of crafting and the limitations of item crafting u kill the game ppl where playing. i payed for the game before that, i want a refund now. or change to rules of binding items. make items that are binded unboundable by paying crowns. that should sort the market and all the ppl that wont pay you anymore for energy (that will actualy quit). in the end u will just loose profit and players. if thats what u want ur on a good way to do it..

NHF raz

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 07:40
#352
covaithe
Legacy Username
Grind, grind

So, like everyone else, I like everything about this patch except the increased crafting cost and preventing the sale of 4*/5* items. Here's why.

I have a limited amount of time to be able to play games. I have a job, a family, yadda yadda. You know the drill. If I can squeeze out 2 hours to play in a day, that's a good day. 1 is more common. Despite this, I don't pay $$ for items. I am happy to pay real-world cash to extend my playing time, so that if I'm having fun and have time to keep playing, I can afford that next elevator, or one more rez with a good group, etc. But paying for items crosses a line for me; it feels like I'm buying success. I want to succeed or fail at the game through my own skill, not based on how much cash I've paid.

That goes for crafting costs, too. If it costs 100 CE to make an item, I require of myself that I buy that CE with crowns, not with dollars. Crowns that I either pick up in a dungeon, or get from selling something that I picked up in a dungeon. An hour a day gives me about one to two runs through T2, for maybe 5k-10k crowns. Call it 7k/day average.

So for me, this patch means that in order to get my sword up from 4* to 5*, the recipe price may drop from about 48k to about 23k, but the CE cost will go up by 500CE, which is 25k crowns AT TODAY'S PRICES. But I fully expect CE costs to go up, up, up since people need fewer crowns (and there's less to spend them on) and more CE. So, I expect that it will take more days of grinding to get my equipment up to 5*, let alone think about any UVs.

I play this game because I enjoy the gameplay, but I gotta say, I'd like a little more variety. I'd like to be able to look forward to upgrading my gear to something where I can play in T3 rather than T2. But this patch has pushed that day farther away, and increased the odds that I'll get bored and move on to some other game.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 07:50
#353
1dinosaursqw
Legacy Username
Im probably gonna get banned again for this but oh wells...

Im probably gonna get banned again for this but oh wells... If nthing changes soon im gonna quit anyways

SCREW this ^%#$%-up patch

+1 to wall of flame

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 07:59
#354
datsy08
Legacy Username
4 Main Things You Need to Improve the Corp.

It's from High Priority - Lowest.

1. BALANCE the Crown and CE in the Trade Market. Otherwise, popularity rate will drop.

2. Disable the heat requirement equips, so it can be Trade-able (as the game is not adventurous/quests like WonderKing or WoW, as Players "need" to merchandise) - THIS is a "NEED" not a WANT because other players sell-out so they would be able to continue grinding in Tiers.

3. Lower or limit the cost of Crafting, "reasonably".

4. Change the Auction House functions - Input TIME countdowns other than "long, short..etc" (to specify, please find Dragonica - just an idea of the layout and how it works)

- 1 & 2 is a MUST!! 3 & 4 is a choice.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:07
#355
Atma
i'm out

I took a break for the past couple of weeks waiting for the auction house. It's here and I couldn't be more disappointed. The auction house it's self is nice... But the crafting restrictions are ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. I really like this game, but this update gives me little reason to keep playing.

I'm not the type to buy weapons, I like to acquire the recipe/materials and make it myself. That being said, this update is BS. I already have my 4 star swords.... To make them 5 stars, I'm going to have to hunt the materials and find/buy the recipes. Very time consuming, but I'm earning the weapon. Right? Oh, wait... no. I have to buy the damned thing from Three Rings! Just for the 2 weapons alone, it's 1,600 CE. Add in armor and helmet and you're up to 3,200 CE! That's nearly $10 to have the privilege of using the weapons you've earned. Add on top of that the 20k crowns you have to sink on top of the recipe/materials/CE. Ridiculous.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't stack one stupid fee on top of another and then raise them while simultaneously KILLING THE MARKET.

I'm done until this crap is fixed. I'll be watching the updates. Seriously Three Rings, fix this crap.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:09
#356
Wire
Legacy Username
Nothing in this update helps

Nothing in this update helps me.
I sell mostly low level mats and the auction house don't serve that well at all.
I'm all 3 star gear and now the gap to 4 star just became huge.
At least trade chat seems to be less noisy. That helps me some.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:27
#357
darthzzorn
Legacy Username
I feel screwed over

Everything in this update I HATE the auction house is okay training hall alright Increased energy fees for everything??!! seems to me they were not making enough money off the energy prices but now they want more? I though this game was free to play. sure you can increase the energy costs for crafting but you should at least add 6 star and 7 star items and add a Tier 4 dungeon i wouldn't mind paying 800 energy to craft a 7 star but since its just making existing things harder its pure stupid this patch. Thats why I quit.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:36
#358
Tgyoshi's picture
Tgyoshi
Auction house is great! I

Auction house is great! I just want to see some actual timer instead of a "Short", "Medium", "Long" etc. words, it's unclear at that point.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:55
#359
ajericho
Legacy Username
My feedback thus far is on my

My feedback thus far is on my blog, and not copy-pasted here, because I know that my words won't be edited there.

http://www.spontaneousderivation.com/2011/05/17/spiral-knights-the-squis...
http://www.spontaneousderivation.com/2011/05/18/spiral-knights-disquiet/

Before people claim that all I do is hate on Spiral Knights, you can read the other entries in my SK diary:

http://www.spontaneousderivation.com/spiral-knights/

I love this game dearly. Except for this patch, which is enough to make me not want to play. Plus I was planning on making tutorials and demo videos of all the obtainable weapons lines; thanks to this patch, that's no longer possible for me to do without expending around $100 more on the game. Just... no.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:57
#360
Bloodfetish's picture
Bloodfetish
-People saying this is good

-People saying this is good coz it stops others from paying a buttload of cash to go straight to tier 3, what kind of reason is that.
It was one incentive to pay, and a reason why a lot of people did pay.
Reason to pay no longer there.

-Increasing the cost to craft? There were alrady multiple threads where players were suggesting to makemore crown sinks to give people a reason to trade CE for crown, this update does the oppisite. It swings more weight towards CE.
Ive given away about 10-15 wolver sets, 15+ owlite shields, cutters, strikers, made avengers for ppl for the cost of alchemy alone, without factoring mat cost or any profit just to give away items to new players as a nice gesture. Now with the extra cost i wont be giving away a thing.

-There has been mixed reviews about the Auction House, me personally, i find it easier to go through my friends list to buy any mats i need, i have no reason to use the auction house at all.

-I usually solo'd the first half of any tier, and if i didnt feel like soloing jelly king, id invite people when i got to basil. Now people are less inclined to join midway through, and i'd rather solo the first half anyway, anything that drops is mine. I never felt cheated that i did the earlier lower profit area while others warped in towards the end, i liked it. Throwing a few tells around to people i enjoyed doing jelly runs with.

-So far the only positives ive found since this new update is shield bumping the robots in trainers hall out of their area(through the mist wall) and setting people on fire in the training hall.

-If there is a single positive thing since this update that has given me any reason to have any faith in any of the 3 rings staff, its the bugfixing and patient attitude Poseidon had when assisting in fixing the auction house glitch i had. He was polite, patient and quick to figure out a way of fixing the problem, and rather fun to chat to during the time it took for him to find a fix, which was soon mailed in a Spiral mail after it was allworked out.

+1 to poseidon(thanks again)
-1 to update, not a single thing that benefits me so far, although this is the first time my mist has maxed out since i started to play.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 08:58
#361
Rusvul's picture
Rusvul
Y'all screaming about how the

Y'all screaming about how the devs haven't done anything yet realize that OOO is based in San Francisco and is probably only just now opening for the work day, right?

Just sayin'.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:08
#362
Icee's picture
Icee
Alchemy machine, please.

The only suggestion I have at this time is to put an alchemy machine next to the auction house. When I buy a recipe or the last material I need to craft something, I don't want to walk all the way over into the bazaar to make it. It's a small thing, but it will make the instant gratification of the AH that much more instant.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:11
#363
ajericho
Legacy Username
tgreyfox, that may be so, but

tgreyfox, that may be so, but where I work, the player fall-off would be treated as a high severity issue and someone would be awake working on press releases and possible compromises and fixes etc.

I'll note that it's likely Three Rings is doing this right now, we just haven't heard from them yet until they've hashed things out.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:12
#364
Raul
The only suggestion I have at

The only suggestion I have at this time is to put an alchemy machine next to the auction house. When I buy a recipe or the last material I need to craft something, I don't want to walk all the way over into the bazaar to make it. It's a small thing, but it will make the instant gratification of the AH that much more instant.

They have one it's down and to the right up the stairs, a stranger stands next to it. I am in favor of a vendor in the same area that way I can sell things I don't need there without having to go to the bazaar.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:24
#365
Icee's picture
Icee
Look twice before posting.

I didn't notice that alch machine. Thanks for pointing it out.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:25
#366
KainCrow
Legacy Username
Ouch guys, ouch.

I have to say, I don't get time to play much, but I've been buying recipes in order to help out my guild, and help stock up the newbies and stuff there. The increase in the price of energy crafting, and the sealing of 4* items and above has pretty much killed that from the get go.

Which... is kinda disheartening. There's now no real purpose to buying recipes now, because you get them for cheaper off the sellers for crying out loud, or to craft for yourself, which, let's face it, is only good for a one time deal.

I'm strongly disinclined to continue playing now, because that tier 4 armor and stuff I was looking at just got yanked so much further from me that I'd be looking at scrimping and saving for ages now. So yeah, good job guys.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:42
#367
hiddenpoint
Legacy Username
:(

I have invest a good chunk of physical money into this game because I really liked it, it was simple and fun, yet complex and difficult as it progressed. It was pretty much everything I was looking for in a free to play MMO. And since it was so fun, I wanted to keep playing and keep crafting and having fun. Since the launch of this game I have invested some money out of each of my paychecks, to keep myself at a steady amount of CE, and now I just feel betrayed.

I consider myself a bit of a collector. I had gotten myself 5* gear and, for sake of completion and all that, I've been working on making other sets of armor and weapons. Partially to have the right tool for any problem, but mainly because I just wanted to sample everything this game I have come to love has to offer. This update has put out the flame that kept me going.

In order for me to craft up all this gear I've been collecting the recipes for, I'm looking at such a huge gap in CE now that it's not worth it one bit. On top of that, I've been hording up recipes so I can craft all the things I want, and now they're going to reimburse the people that bought recipes for pure profit, but not the people who bought them to see all the things this game has to offer.

Seeing as I craft all my gear, and since I'm always making new gear for me and not to sell, the 4* and 5* item binding doesn't effect me all too much. But I can see how it screws over people who don't play the way I do. My friend was in the process of leveling some strikers so that he could eventually cap them to dread venom strikers and sell them off. But then this patch rolled in, and he, like many other who craft for a profit, is now stuck with a pile of strikers/vile strikers that he can't sell, and they're completely worthless to him seeing as he has a dread venom for himself already.

All that being said, I will not be playing Spiral Knights until I see a patch that reverts the changes to the crafting system. The unbinding of 4 and 5* items isn't detrimental for ME to come back to Spiral Knights but that is the big thing a lot of players are quitting for. So I'll be watching the forums from here on out to see what kind of attempt (if any) the Devs try to make in remedying this situation they have created. To all you guys at 3 Rings, good luck in soothing this monster you've created (and it's not that hard really), and to all you guys fighting back at the devs for this changes, keep up the work, who knows maybe well get on their nerves enough to make them crack.

Sincerely, Adoltin.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:45
#368
Archdandy
Legacy Username
Thought I'd add to the feedback requested

To start, I was pretty angry last night upon reading the patch notes and had that emphatic response eurydice was talking about.
Now, that I've cooled off, I'd like to let you guys know about my experience with this update.

I hardly ever post on forums, activated my account just for this, but read them often.

I bought CE early on in-game (around $60 worth) because I liked the game, wanted to progress my character to the content that I found challenging, and genuinely wanted to support the idea of the game. I did not mention this to give my post any more... weight, but just because eurydice has given me the impression that she is interested in individual experiences with this update, and I am providing as much information as possible. I absolutely loved the choice given to players on whether or not to pay real money for the game. Free to Play players would progress a lot more slowly, but it was doable with real life time constraints.

The reason I had been logging into the game was to craft and resell. It's the part of the game I found I had the most fun with. I really liked doing dungeons with my guild, but when they weren't on, or the runs were full, I'd craft and play the market. I've done the same thing with other MMO's I've played. It's what I enjoy to do.

This update takes a lot of the fun out of the game for me. I honestly do not know whether or not I will keep playing. I do not think I will purchase more CE, but I had made that decision prior to the update. I payed the normal retail cost of a game, and felt that I had contributed.

If I had sovereignty on what would happen going forward (knowing I am ignorant about the reasons behind the update, which I would love to know), I would definitely unbind the 4* and 5* items. This is what was most fun about the game to me, personally. I understand the want to not allow people to get to T3 immediately, but, if that's how they choose to enjoy the game, bully for them. It doesn't detract from my experience and even allows me to play the game the way I like to (playing the market). I am fine with increasing energy costs slightly (the amount that they were increased is slightly worrisome to me however), as I understand this game is still newish and trying to become stable.

Overall, I feel that this game has evolved past what I enjoy in video games with this latest patch. That may be more in line with what the developers had in mind from the start, and that's fine. It just removes a lot of the fun of the game from my experience. I wont clamor for a refund because I had fun with my purchase while it lasted.

Best of luck to everyone involved, and I will keep watching, and may log in occasionally to do a dungeon run or two.

I hope this post has been helpful to someone.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:45
#369
mlepinski
Legacy Username
Overall a good update. I like

Overall a good update.

I like the fact that higher tier crafted items now bind to the crafter. The changes to crafting costs seem reasonable.

Auction house seems great as a buyer, but as a seller the listing fees seem a bit too high.

And of course the advanced training hall is great, wish we would have had that when I started playing :->

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:46
#370
starbow
Legacy Username
The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

I'm going to ignore all aspects of the release except the two controversial ones: crafting costs and 4+* binding.

While there's been a tsunami of negative feedback regarding the changes, they are something the playerbase can adapt to, and potentially even understand. So I'll try to explain why neither of the changes is not the end of the world, though both of them were very poorly thought out from the player point of view. Both changes are obviously intended to slow down the progress of players, and for a good reason. The gear/tier progression is way too fast in SK (or there's too little to do once you are in full 5* gear, pick one).

The crafting cost increase might make life considerably harder for (new) players, especially F2P ones, but as long as it's possible to retain overall positive energy flow from doing Clockworks it's not an issue. Consider, currently 100CE costs approximately 5k crowns, and spending 80energy to do a t2 run nets you around 7-8k crowns, plus drops. Thus, even for a F2P player effort and time put into game equals progression. A slower progression than before, but it's something that is doable. This is obviously subject to change if the energy/crown ratio in the market gets out of hand in the near future.

Binding high-star items upon crafting is a good way to limit gear progression, at the cost of shooting the ingame economy of your product in the foot. I don't claim to have complete understanding of these things, but as far as tradeoffs go, it seems fair. However, players totally will see this as screwing them over, because from our point of view it hinders us twice, instead of taking something away and giving something in return. The stupid thing about how the patch tried to "fix" the player progress is that it did nothing to the aspect most obviously flawed: material drop/usage ratio. Every single player in SK has literally thousands of materials they won't use and can't sell to others because they have the exact same problem of material overflow. Crafting simply is not a big enough material sink, aside from the few most improtant materials like Swordstones. You added a sink for crowns (auction house) and energy (crafting costs) but did not touch the one aspect that was actually broken? Too difficult to balance or what on earth was the problem?

Anyway, the only way this release really screwed the players over was failing to notice us of the changes beforehand. That was frankly quite a dick move. I now have 5 4* items of various heat levels in my inventory that are useless to me because I already own the 5* versions of each. I was going to craft them to 5* and sell, but now they are just piles of wasted materials, time and CE. This, I'm sure, is a common situation with more advanced players and frustrates me to no end. If there had been even a week grace period for us to get rid of our stuff there would've been a great deal less anger at these changes.

So, how do I feel after this release hit? I was a pretty active F2P tier3 player who has done everything there is to be done in SK currently, sitting on a pile of CE and crowns and finishing off my alternate weapons and cool looking 5* items to use in costume slots. Today, after logging in I ran tier 3 once, to get rid of my mist energy, and then instead of playing more, I logged out. Why? Because there was no point in staying online further. Using my CE for dungeons didn't feel worth it anymore for me, since I can't level up gear for sale, so I chose to do something else. I mean, sure I could run more dungeons to hunt for the couple of recipes I want or level up the last item I need for myself (and still gain crowns in the process), but it just didn't feel worth it. As I said I can only talk about the economy of Spiral Knights from what little I understand, but I figure the 200-300 CE that I might've used tonight must've come from SOMEWHERE, even if it wasn't me who paid cash for it.

All in all, not giving a warning for the item binding sucks, but even disregarding that (and understanding/accepting the changes) my interest in spending time on SK dropped greatly. Outcome: not so good.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:50
#371
Tgyoshi's picture
Tgyoshi
I see no rise in costs to

I see no rise in costs to create a receipe or so actually..? Are 2* stuff still 50 energy or so?

It might be due to the fact that I'm too new to see the bad parts of the update ^^. The action house is indeed great for buyers like be, but awful for sellers as far as I can see. *buys some more swordstone*

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 09:54
#372
Negimasonic's picture
Negimasonic
I'd like more fire and oil

I'd like more fire and oil jar spawns in the Advanced Training place. We don't have PVP but with more of that we could have jar throwing fights >.> Gotta take off my volcanic stuff though, I wasn't being lit on fire enough(this should make me happy lol...)

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:22
#373
Feynt
Legacy Username
EshajoriThe reason

Eshajori
The reason everything roots back to Energy is because Energy costs real money. They need it to be used to it runs out and you need to cash in.

I realize why they want energy to drain faster. But with such a massive energy hike on crafting they're effectively closing off the end game to free players unless they grind forever. It is a hard slap in the face of all the free players because they're saying, "Yeah, you can play free! See, you can buy energy in this dialog for in game money!" But even with a full tank of ME, you need to buy 700 CE to make your 5 star gear, and 300 CE to make your 4 star gear. Total of 1000 CE, or (at current market prices) 5 000 000 crowns. At my best, and I mean an absolute record, I've made just shy of 40k in a day by spending my energy exclusively on the profitable halves of dungeons (most noteably going into firestorm citadel). That means to craft up one piece of gear from 3 to 5, I need to spend 125 days (under totally ideal circumstances) in a fixed crown:CE market of 5k cr/100 CE to be able to afford the energy alone. And that's solely exploring on ME rather than CE.

The thing is they don't need to raise energy prices, or at least force the energy hike. They can instead raise the crown and material costs a good deal and effectively get the same results, but they hide it in the system behind stuff even free players will come across. By shifting toward further exploration and less up front energy costs we're encouraged to play the game they made. More exploring of the Clockworks means more energy usage. And if the shift went even more toward exploration (actually reduced energy costs) people would be more inclined to spend their CE doing runs rather than people in my position just sitting on their CE waiting for enough resources to upgrade.

My point is that energy shouldn't be a road block. We literally can't progress into the game unless we get better gear, and that gear is now prohibitively expensive for free players. Instead they should be encouraging exploration and draining the energy faster through exploration costs (not a per level thing, but like... More gated stuff, or being able to force level rotations earlier by paying energy).

Addendum:

Another thought I had was "paying more energy can take the place of other stuff" in crafting. So yes, we could pay a high energy cost, but in place of say the crowns or some of the materials. If the energy costs were more managable as a base (to use 5 stars as an example, 250 CE), and crown and material costs increased rather dramatically (double the 3 star and higher material requirements at least, for example), volunteering to double the energy cost would allow you to pay off a certain amount of those costs, like a point buy system.

250 spare CE into the build could let you shave off a few items at a cost of (star value * 10 CE) per item (so removing a three 5 star item requirement is 150 CE). You could also exchange the CE on the spot at the current market value, so you could put 100 of that CE toward reducing (at current value) the crown cost by 5000.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:09
#374
Austenite
So when exactly...

So when exactly did Activision buy Three Rings?

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:30
#375
Circled
Legacy Username
Worst update ever in a

Worst update ever in a game.

This ranks with the big boys like WoW's WoTLK badge system and Runescapes wildy removal and trade cap.

You know it took Jagex (the devs of runescape) 2/3 years to admit their mistake?
In that time their game almost died and they lost a TON of their playerbase.

For your sake AND ours, revert this BIG mistake.

FYI, these games were WAY bigger and runescape almost died... just a fair warning, there is a small player base here OOO.

Keep us HAPPY.

And stop e-mailing with Bobby Kotic, he destroyed enough beautifull things as it is.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:32
#376
tsaitha
Legacy Username
Too much, too sudden.

The crafting fee increase is too steep and too sudden. A gradual increase or an increase after an advanced warning of a week or so I might have been fine with, but even if I want to adapt to this, I can't.

My friends and I (a group who moved to this game together, including some who spend money and some who don't) had a nice system going. I like crafting and they don't. They paid toward my recipes and then I made them their items at cost price with me taking no profit. We sat down last night and worked out exactly what we can afford and were going to start on 5 star things tonight. Now we would no longer have even close to the energy needed AND they are short of the recipes since I can no longer level anything to craft 4 and 5 star items for them. At least one of them has been playing with 2 star items to put all his crowns toward my recipes... because he's been waiting until I can make him the five star items so we wouldn't double up on recipe costs. Now he has 2 star things, NO recipes and no way for me to make him the things he has already paid toward.

I'd now have to buy quite a bit of CE to pay up on all the agreements I had and for a game that suddenly hikes up it's costs with ZERO warning.. I'm not willing to spend that.

It's also just lovely that I now have a load of learned recipes I paid so much for just this week and hadn't quite got around to using yet.

Now... I know you want to make more money and increasing the need for CE can encourage that, but we worked hard as a group and would have had quite a few 5 star items made this weekend. We planned for it for a long time. A week's warning would have let us prepare for this change. As it is, we feel like we've been kicked in the teeth and that customer service is a concept you really need to work on. Happy customers = customers who don't mind spending. None of us will be anymore because there's just no fun in a game when plans you spent a few weeks over get crushed like this.

Thanks for making a good game and we'll come back and deal with the increased crafting costs if you at least make it possible to craft 4/5 star items for one another again (though really... too big a change too suddenly). Anyway, apart from maybe an odd run with mist energy, we're gone now.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:38
#377
Green-Lantern
I think it's time to chill

I think it's time to chill for a bit. There's just no way they're not going to revert some of these changes after this response from the community. They'd have to be the most incompetent dev team on the planet if they stuck with this. Just give em a couple days.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:38
#378
aeolianmode
Legacy Username
4* 5* binding and ridiculous

4* 5* binding and ridiculous transmute costs have effectively ended my interest in this game. Please emulate larger studios and do extensive testing and player research before attempting ridiculous balancing acts. Thanks for the fun while it lasted, I'll probably check in about a month to see if this ludicrous patch has been fixed.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:43
#379
Semeskooma
Legacy Username
This is worse than Sony's

This is worse than Sony's infamous Jedi patch on Star Wars galaxies.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:50
#380
Circled
Legacy Username
The Jedi Patch atleast didnt

The Jedi Patch atleast didnt kill the main aspect of the game...

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:57
#381
ajericho
Legacy Username
Now I'm going to have to hunt

Now I'm going to have to hunt down all these references to failed patches for other games. I hear Pirates had a few too.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:57
#382
Green-Lantern
@aeolianmode, #383 It really

@aeolianmode, #383

It really is a joke they didn't consult the player base and/or do extensive testing before making these sweeping, game-defining "balancing" attempts. It's absolutely inexcusable, especially for a developer that's been in the industry for the better part of a decade.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 10:58
#383
Semeskooma
Legacy Username
@ Circled Yes it did. the

@ Circled

Yes it did. the best part of the game was the class complexity and freedom, which they replaced with a hand full of classes. The rarity/difficulty of obtaining Jedi's before the patch made it epic as well, as it should have stayed.

Hold on, you're actually DEFENDING the SWG Jedi patch? Why am I wasting my time, what is this I don't even? Sarcasm or successful troll is successful.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 11:10
#384
Renesis
@ Feynt: Your math is a

@ Feynt: Your math is a couple decimal places off. it's 50,000 crowns for 1000CE, not 5,000,000. (you were multiplying 5000 by 1000 I guess?) So it'll take you 1.25 heavy days of grinding to get the capital you need.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 11:16
#385
GallantBrave
Legacy Username
http://www.threerings.net/abo

http://www.threerings.net/about/contact.html

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 11:20
#386
Droganis
Legacy Username
I'll toss in my story

I'll be watching what happens over the next few weeks, to see what the energy market does at the very least, just out of curiosity. But I'm done spending CE for the moment, definitely won't be buying any with real cash anytime soon, and if things go as I expect I'll probably throw in the towel when the rest of my friends leave.

I got in on the first real release day (no beta) bringing in some friends who I previously played Diablo 2 with. We chipped in together to buy some CE, mostly to support the game since we were having fun, and I continued harassing other friends to get them to join this entertaining game. I hit 5* gear just a few weeks ago, and finalized my preferred build just this weekend, so I'm not quite done with end-game content (we failed at Vanny a couple times, trying to figure out how to deal with him) I was also selling Divine Avengers, partly to gain back CE spent crafting/running, but mostly to have enough on hand to outfit any friends who joined me and set up my Fiance so she/they could join the rest of us in Tier 3. Now I can't. I have no incentive to tell my friends to join in, as it would likely take them several months to be able to join me. I can't even just give them some of the costs for getting that far, since alchemy prices skyrocketed at the same time. I was originally going to get more recipes and build different armor/weapons for alternate set-ups, but no longer have any interest in bothering to do that since the crafting cost would basically run me dry. All of my friends who managed to join are in similar situations, especially those who were getting ready to craft things for each other, and are generally rather thoroughly disheartened by this change.

The auction house is nice and all, but with the mandatory fees I will not be bothered to use it (especially since the main thing I was selling cannot be sold anymore) I expect to see material prices plummet there, especially the 4 and 5 star mats, as the interest or ability for people to make 4 and 5 star gear will be crushed, while the materials are honestly not that difficult to obtain. Heck, at this point, you'll easily gain the tokens you need to buy the materials for crafting in the amount of runs you'll have to make to just afford to craft them. And that's not even getting into what I am sure will be a rather notable CE cost spike (although, oddly enough, it actually dropped between last night and this morning. Players selling out before leaving the game, maybe?)

While I do understand the interest in stopping people from rushing into Tier 3 and end-game content, forcing them to stay in tier 2 for several months before hand seems to not be a fair trade off. I've played for a month, and Tier 3 is the only interesting place for me, and even that is starting to get a bit dry. Maybe if more content was provided, it would be easier to swallow. Hell, then I could play with new people and explore new lower-level areas. As is.... well, I'll just wait and see.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 11:30
#387
Dasparian
My feedback.

The changes to Alchemy in this update were great ideas that accomplish what they were made to do beautifully.
Unfortunately, I suspect they were never meant to be coupled together in such a crippling fashion.

If CE prices for crafting were raised, but items were unbound on upgrade, everything would be fine.
If items were bound on upgrade but CE prices remained the same, everything would be fine.

Combine the two, and what is this I don't even

I understand the need to make 5* gear more "legendary" and difficult to access. It was pretty ridiculous for myself and other members of the community to hit end-game within 3 or so weeks - it makes sense. Still, this essentially castrates a good portion of the market namely the crafters and furthermore makes end-game that much more daunting for new players. They'll still make it, but at what price? There are also players with expendable income but no time to grind through the game.

I can live with heavy crafting prices. I can live with items that bind to me permanently.
Both at the same time is like double-penetration without prior warning or preparation.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 11:29
#388
kevomatic
Legacy Username
Patch kills the game for new

Patch kills the game for new F2P players (gear for T3 now way less attainable)... kills the game for endgame players (unable to craft for guildies or for sale). Thumbs down.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 11:46
#389
Starcadet's picture
Starcadet
In addition to slowing our

In addition to slowing our progress in the game and preventing us from getting to the end--that would be so bad--IF you had more dungeons and more dungeon types. It gets VERY boring going through the same dungeons, the same enemies, the same bosses again and again. And now free-players have to do that MORE to get more crowns to get more energy so they can update their equipment. People are going to get bored really fast at this rate unless you plan to have more new things so grinding won't be so boring.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 12:03
#390
SwordSaint
Legacy Username
lol several? more like 30-40%

lol several? more like 30-40%

spam crafting for UV and the market for those UV items was probably Three Rings highest source of CE profit.
Reasonable crafting costs and the ability to trade 4* and 5* items helped to complement this UV market. The changes
in the new patch effectively destroys Three Rings highest profit segment. I don't know why a profit oriented company would
do that.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 12:03
#391
Lostillusion's picture
Lostillusion
My thoughts

I'm not sure how I feel about the patch as a whole, so I'll start from the beginning:

Basil ports: Questionable business at best, too many opportunities to screw people here. Sell the recipes instead.

Boss Token: I can see why people don't like this, but most people running JK need the crowns and heat from the levels before more than the tokens themselves. Also, it starts from the dungeon itself, where most runs would recruit anyways.

Auction House: Could be a less obvious crown sink and it needs to direct return crowns for outbidding, at the very least. Mail when an item is bought, sure; The rest would work better set to chat messages ala the Energy Market.

Crafting/Recipe cost changes: Ok, so you want more people to make their own equipment, as opposed to buying it. Most of the outcry here is because it was without warning, and it feels like you raised the cash cost more than the game cost. A small increase in the CE cost (like around 150, 300, 500) and a larger increase to the crown and material costs would have hurt a lot less.
The big spike the the CE cost makes it that someone has to pay more money for this weapon rather than earning it while enjoying the game (and people would be less worried about CE prices going up later, ruining the balance made for this particular moment).

4*/5* Binding: I have to admit, this is the main reason I still play like I do. I've been going slow compared to some people, been playing since the preview and am just now getting to my 5* gear. I've also lost my long term game of being a "master crafter" as others have put it, partly to make a bit of profit, but mostly to be able to help out my guildmates. It was something to do while waiting for the great stuff I know is coming. I'm not sure how far I will take that now, considering I've never been much for just collecting for show. I'm on the fence about most of this one, so I'll break it down:
If it was done because you wanted people to work for every 5* item, then fine this is the only solution that would work, although I'm not sure that making everyone grind harder is all that helpful to the long term life, the people who want it now, will still get it now.
If it was done because not enough people were using recipes, surely there are better ways to work that out
If it was done so people can't buy their way their way into t3: a Vitasuit Deluxe or a Silvermail for armor, A Stone Tortoise shield, a Graviton Bomb for your weapon, and a few t1 runs to level a 3* helmet ( on an unbound chest drop) would still get them there without too much effort. So That option is still available.

So there's my thoughts on this, Time to sit back and see how this unfolds.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 12:51
#392
covaithe
Legacy Username
I don't understand the claim

I don't understand the claim that this patch makes it so that you can't buy your way into T3. You can still pay $$ for CE, sell it for crowns, buy all the recipes and mats you need from the auction house, and craft them using purchased CE. Sure, you'll have to pause briefly to farm some heat, but, come on. It's not like that's a real barrier.

There are a few items you can't get without grinding now; ones that have seals as prereqs. But they're in the minority, and you can certainly put together a T3-viable build without them.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:05
#393
Heshan
Legacy Username
Frustrated

I like many others am frustrated by the changes to crafting.

While I appreciate the reduction in recipe costs, it does nowhere near enough to offset the increase in CE costs. The problem is that the reduction in recipe cost is also mitigated by the binding of items. To get 4 and 5 star gear it is mandatory to bind that item in order to accumulate enough heat. However, those 4 and 5 star recipes just became sunk costs that cannot be recouped through production of additional pieces of gear for sale. I personally like buying recipes for my own use because the aspect of self sufficiency is something that has always been appealing. However, the fact that I cannot assist guild members in crafting or using my own additional materials to craft something that has more worth kills some of the appeal.

I'd go further into the increase in CE costs for crafting but there has already been enough complaints posted on this forum and there has already been enough posters who commented on the impact it will have on demand and equilibrium prices.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:07
#394
Shion-Sinx's picture
Shion-Sinx
finally

for the very first time in my life e can read GAME OVER in a MMO patch.

does the adm plan to come here and say something?

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:09
#395
Pauling's picture
Pauling
Previously, the appeal in

Previously, the appeal in continued play was to craft as wide an assortment of gear as possible. Then, specialized items would allow me to adapt to any situation.

With the new update, all my resources (energy!) have to be focused on a very small subset of gear, because just a single set of 5* items would cost $20. More money per item, fewer items to craft- in a game where new crafting is what drives me to keep playing.

This update would have been less offensive, I think, had it come with a broader plan for the economy- more crown sinks to balance out the vastly spiked costs of energy, or more ways that material can be used, to create a demand for people trading them. Likewise, had there been goals other than crafting in the end-game. For the current price of 4-5* gear, I can't begin to imagine what would make tier 3 worth paying gear costs to reach.

Overall: aside from the small number of people who need green shards on day one, the release seems all stick and no carrot. Players seem to want not just a market, but rather a vibrant and healthy market with sustained demand, and plenty of diverse items to sell. Instead, limits on recipe sales and high material supply conspire to force all players towards a highly linear progression, with few choices outside what the devs envision. And without a reason to buy materials long term, the glut will discourage sales.... making the auction house only a very partial solution to a broader problem.

What does this release do to provide new goals or healthy markets going forward?

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:12
#396
Manta's picture
Manta
Auction House Release Pros -

Auction House Release

Pros
- I avoided trade chat at all costs and prefer to level up my character by actually going through dungeons (some call this grinding, I actually enjoy going through them :).
- It's nice to know that I can follow the price of certain items I need at the Auction House, especially if they are difficult to obtain in the dungeons.

Cons
- I "learned" my Aegis recipe, and now I see my investment of 45k can be purchased for only 25k - and it's going to cost me even more energy to craft it. Pretty hefty loss there, without prior notice.
- Been doing Tier 2 today and noticed at least 3 times, there are no minerals at the Crossroads Terminal...so even less to be gained in crowns upon exchanging minerals.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:13
#397
Katmint's picture
Katmint
Auction House is fine. It'd

Auction House is fine. It'd be a lot better if we could actually sell all the 4* and 5* armor and weapons there.

Training hall is a fun distraction for a few minutes, although I can see it being a great place to test out weapons without spending any energy.

I really dislike the craft autobind. It wouldn't be so bad if equipment didn't need leveling, but honestly, I'd rather just have it back to the way it was.

I could do without the 800 CE crafting cost for 5* items, although I would be willing to pay 500 CE. 800 CE just seems a bit overboard.

I like the new way boss tokens are done. I usually play through the whole dungeon anyway.

Not sure what I think about the new Basil recipe system, although you might want to fix the Scarlet Shield and Swiftstrike Buckler recipes being purchasable even if you joined at the terminal. :P

That's it for my feedback. :P

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:16
#398
Gigafreak
Legacy Username
I figure I'll throw my

I figure I'll throw my opinion in too...

Re-binding alchemy products hurts, but I can kind of understand why it's done.
To make it hurt less, recipe costs were reduced so that more people can get them. Alright.
To keep alchemy costly after the recipes became cheap, energy requirements were raised. Sounds fair.
I think the energy requirements were raised -too much-, though. I'd like to see it toned down a fair bit-- maybe to something closer to 500 CE for a 5* item. I mean, I just got Tier 3 access the other day, but now my two best friends are going to have a serious uphill struggle to join me. (I was, incidentally, the one who got them into this game-- and for the first time I'm wondering if maybe that wasn't a good decision after all.)

The Auction house, in and of itself, is great! Trade chat really did cut itself down, and I even got into a bidding war over a recipe. (I gave up quickly though, the other guy was pretty determined.) However, 10% feels kind of high for the listing cost and the cut. I was much more comfortable with a 5% cut in other games-- just enough to be felt and considered, but not enough for it to really hurt. I mean, the tax on the Energy market is a mere 2%, and it does a decent job of distancing the buying and selling prices. The auction house's 10% is pretty hefty in comparison. And I realize this would take new coding, but it would be nice if "outbid on ___" mails either
1) could not be deleted before accepting the attached crowns, or
2) had no delete button, but automatically deleted themselves after you accept the refunded bid, or
3) automatically gave you the crowns when you clicked on them, and then promptly deleted themselves.
Not a top priority-- but it'd be helpful.

The Training Hall is a good idea, but it seems a bit easy for new players to walk right past. It might be better if newly-arriving players were given an objective to go in and talk to the clerk inside, who THEN gives the objective to visit the Arcade and Clockworks-- after inviting the player to fool around with the practice exercises first, of course. ESPECIALLY the southeastern infinite-mob-spawn room, where they tell you about the all-important shield-shove ability.

That's all I got right now. Hope this all works out somehow. Thanks for putting in so much effort, at least.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:17
#399
tsengbang
Legacy Username
You know what you did???? you

You know what you did???? you disabled people who craft items and sell them. I know ppl who paid hundreds to get recipes to craft and sell items. They wont spend a single cent now on this messed up game. You cant just CHANGE the whole mechanics of things, geez.
U shouldn't release the game if u hadn't thought of it earlier.

Auctionhouse - terrible. it should be like the CE buying market. its easier to access and doesn't SPAM your mail
- why do you need the category of SWORD, SHIELD, HAT, GUN, Since you cant sell the crafted bound ones anymore
- you basically STRIPPED away half of the items ppl were actually going to sell
- 10% of profit is taken away. WTF. making more crowns disappear

So basically many buyers of CE dont buy CE anymore. They cant craft/merchant items.

insanely hard to get a 5* piece now

lets see Vog Cub Piece (no mat cost):

(stars) ---- (Cr cost)+(CE cost)+(recipe cost)
2* --------- 400cr+50ce+1,000cr
3* -------- 1,000cr+200ce+4,000cr
4* -------- 2,500cr+400ce+10,000cr
5* -------- 5,000cr+800ce+25,000cr

...and that adds up to 48.9k crowns and 1,450CE. and this is excluding cost of Materials as well

it costs more the make a 5* than before. And is MUCH harder to obtain crowns since you cant sell items. All you can to is GRIND GRIND GRIND

is this "BALANCING" the game?!

Do this. Lose money. Lose players.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 13:33
#400
Ginzaki
Legacy Username
It's sad really.

I'm not going to rage, though I probably could. I'm just going to say that I logged in with the intent of buying $100 worth of CE. I saw that the game got an update and was thrilled, but thankfully I read the update before buying the CE. I can safely say, that without some serious changes I won't be spending anymore money on the game.

My reason is simple, I liked that this game let you play in whatever way you wanted within the boundary of the system. You could be a merchant, a tour guide, a grinder, etc. You could do what you want. Now you are forced to play one way, which I believe to have shattered the spirit of the game. I might still play, but given that I like many others have been ripped off at least 100K crowns I'm not sure that I can continue playing.

On my review site I gave this game rave reviews. I have to go change that now to protect my integrity.

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