+1
Updated: "Petition" towards OOO: Let old knights created before this patch redo the character creation. You know what I mean OOO
Saying that 50-100k isn't much is an interesting refrain...
For reference, the events panel now tells you which of your friends has earned the most crowns in the last week. My top 10 friends (including several elevator pass owners) earned between 30k-210k crowns... and bear in mind those are the top 10, and all of them play every day. (at varying levels of casualness) That leaves plenty of friends earning even less.
In that limited data set, then, are a few people who would need to spend 1-2 weeks of their crown earnings on these "free" appearance modifications. They're priced as premium items, which has some bearing on the discussion of "fairness".
I could complain on the whole putting a situation like this up after they put up lock boxes for 10 dollars if you donated, (What a cheap way to try to promote something. Super [xxxxxx] mechanics.) but I won't. All I'm going to say is this needs to happen because it's very unfair that this happened, and was set to make newer players able to fix their characters if they wanted, but we get nothing. We simply get the salt in the wound every time we see a new character walk around when we had to pay good money just to get that tall/short.
*pokes the thread with a stick*
I wish I could flail it in front of OOO and torture them till they reply. ;~;
I would just take pride that you kept this petition thread going this long. Most die out in an hour. I think they do see it. And I think I know why they haven't done anything yet. Buuuuuut. I'm under test server confidentiality. :U Would make sense that if they are gonna redo it, they'll do it when they publicly release the test server stuff. Just an idea. :U
And instead of letting old players get what new have for free, or at least answering us here, OOO is busy making another new stuff for new players.
Pauling, I think you make a very good point and even provide some real data. Certainly, earning crowns can be difficult, but that is mostly for new players. I am not, by any measure, an especially powerful earner. I am never the Crown King, for sure. But really, for most players that have money to spend on cosmetic upgrades at all, dropping 100k is not that great of a hardship.
I really do see the other side of this, and I think that the majority of the more vocal players agree with this thread. I disagree, because I want Three Rings to drown new players in the deliciousness of Spiral Knights. New players that stay are more important than established players like you and me getting 100k in our pockets. I want new players to have a good experience and enjoy the game. I want them to have every advantage.
Three Rings needs to to help new players as much as they can. As a community, we attract a lot of the worst of the internet, beggars in the Free-to-Play environment. (Having said that, I know there are F2Pers that contribute tremendous good to the game and forums.) In response, veterans are generally not very helpful towards new players, which I think is justified somewhat when there is a comprehensive wiki. All the same, I don't know that the game is very friendly to new players.
This is way more than I originally intended to post. Heh.
This happens in every MMORPG. The game starts out with an "old" community, and through the course of time the devs add various features that make the game easier/better, but the old community is left out. Always.
It's natural in all MMOs that this happens.
Moral of the story: Play an MMO at least a year after release.
Hmm.. actually, I think they will let us do it.
Why?
New core story mission for new players
If they don't let us play that...
ohohoho. The forums better be fireproof.
+1 I'm Razor-Dash, and this is my favorite thread in the forum.
If the newbies get those changes for free, then so should we. It's unfair that we have to spend a bucketload of crowns for the height/eye change, and they get it for free.
Also, it's astounding that after 5 pages in this petition, neither Nick nor anyone else from 3Rings bothered to give us their insights. Don't you just love it when they keep quiet?
I don't know if this is already going to happen, or if it's already been decided against, but it can't hurt to try.
Anyway, 50-100k (not counting free accessories) isn't a lot to some of us, true, but let's not forget that not everyone is a merchant, big P2Per, or old-timer who got rich off rose regalia and such. It's a lot of crowns to most people.
For that matter, I'm raking it in compared to casuals and many active players who just play the game, but even so, I don't feel much inclined to put a decent chunk of a day's earnings towards something new players get for free. Come on.
@Derpules Hell, I've been playing this game since april last year, and I still haven't made it to 100k crowns, and I'm a bloody merchant! You just spend it so quickly in Ce and in your gear, and now if we fancy a change in looks, we gotta pay even more while the new bloods get it for free? That, is what you call a major slap to the face.
Its a 50/50 chance that we either return to the rescue camp, or we get another major slap in the face.
@Tersakaff We're not asking to return to the rescue camp, we just ask for a single change for the eyes and height. Accessories don't necessarily need to be free like some knights ask, we can always buy them in the AH, but the height/eyes.....
But honestly? I think the next patch is gonna be a major double slap to the face. Call me pessimistic, but in all my experience dealing with patches and content in games, we mostly end up being screwed over because the devs are more focused in making money rather than to satisfy the community. Take for instance, the time they spent coming up with the accessories they coulda used it to create an Asia/Oceania server.
Simple math, really. Community satisfaction = more new players = more money and potential buyers.
And I suck at math.
Oh yes, but thats how they could solve the poblem.
New rescue camp and missions coming, we need, we want to do them.
And servers are bought, not created, and damn do they cost a lot to buy and maintain.
I dont want this to sound as a threat, but, this thread will not die until its objective is achieved, or it is locked, in which case that would be -infinite respect for OOO and -1 P2P player.
"I dont want this to sound as a threat, but, this thread will not die until its objective is achieved, or it is locked, in which case that would be -infinite respect for OOO and -1 P2P player."
I second that notion.
Add a 'No' reply to the 'To avoid this ending' and I'll be okay with it too, although I'm technically F2P. P2P only courtesy of a very generous friend giving me the DLC.
"...although I'm technically F2P. P2P only courtesy of a very generous friend giving me the DLC."
@Psycho
No, it's just a weirdly humanized rainbow dash.
Confused Fry
Not Sure if Girl...
Or Sexually Confused Boy...
Yes! Tersakoff agrees with Ironskullkid.
Yup :3 Just waiting for new update
Yeah, the new update that probably wont give anything new to players who spent more than 2 days in game.
Asukalan! One of the reasons why I think kats are jerks :D
^ thats the infinity sign, if you get how much i care about this petition o.O
(num lock on then, alt+236)
Basically I get the points made by each person in the thread, and sorta agree we should get the same opportunity to make our characters a little more unique -- remember the height and eye modifiers are not just for Proto Gear.
I do have quite a bit of experience, both in playtime (a year or so now) and in getting tossed over by OOO in moves that they made to both gather new players to the game and earn money from players old and new. The only response to my legitimate support requests that were positive wasthat asked a player to be returned to a Shadow Lair... in fact some had such a negative outcome that they lost the loyalty of yet another veteran player.
The OOO development team is not interested in retaining F2P players. They also constantly make changes that limit the ability to be F2P. They are interested in making a product that both consistently pays salaries and makes profits. If a player has been with the game since it came out of beta, yet has made no contribution financially to a game that they have worked on for many years, isn't that kinda a slap in the face to OOO?
ON the other hand, there is something to be said for player loyalty and holding on to players that will contribute to the community, regardless of payments. They also need to show appreciation for the veteran base that does pay for content. SK has limited player loyalty. To me OOO is directly responsible, and while they are certainly aware of veteran complaints, they are unapologetic -- or apathetic.
I am torn between hoping the base sticks around and being apathetic myself. I have customized my character as much as I am interested for the most part. Height and Eyes do not matter much to me. What does matter is the lack of general Clockworks new content (suffice to say I haven't seen anything really new or interesting or additive since the CSKs). The Shadow Lairs are reworked content, the accessories do nothing for gameplay (though fun and the only thing new for end-gamers), and the only new boss was not only P2P content exclusively (though Steam Tradable, someone has to pay), but is also content not worth paying for from the vast majority of accounts from my in game friends.
Notice that the only OOO associated comment in this thread was a moderated posting (and rightly so if the post was as gratuitously vulgar as I'm thinking it was!)? I'm thinking this is falling in the apathy category for the OOO development team, just as so many other things do. Silence -is- a clear response.
Meh. Torchlight 2 will be out soon enough.
-edited for clarity-
I won't get into how easy or difficult this would be to actually code into the game.
Presumably - somewhere in our data file is the code for the initial color and proto armors we picked so this could be changed.
The "plot" for existing players:
The gremlins have been mucking around with temporal science. They've sent an agent back to when we crash landed on cradle to mess us up from ever getting all of our people into Haven.
Spiral Command has also been tinkering and the can send only one knight back.
The game physics are that we all get a one time trip back to the crash site. None of our gear can go (similar to the Terminator concept) and there is no guarantee we'll come back looking the same (think "The FLY").
When we arrive at the new crash site - our default is what we originally chose when we created our characters.
We then have the option to make modifications. We get to play through the new crash site "time line" and return to Haven, where, all of our assorted gear is waiting for us.
Our original character file data (proto gear selections) get updated with whatever we've selected.
Everybody gets to play through the new content with their character AND gets to make the initial "free" changes.
Again - this sound easy, may be easily codable - may not.
It ultimately depends on wheter or not OOO wants to do something for the existing player base.
Ponder OOO. I don't think this thread is going to die.
Given Diablo III launches next week, Torchlight about a month later - you're not in a good position statistically to alienate your core / existing player base.
Jacobey
+1
It's silly that it's not possible. I mean wow... 3 rings have you really sinked this low lately?
I love the idea I mean srsly its a great idea. SIGNED?
~Shock
But guys dont take it out on OOO rings.
>Notice that the only admin comment in this thread was due to language? I'm thinking this is falling in the apathy category for OOO, just as so many other things do. Silence -is- a clear response.
Just a note to point out that the GMs and I must still perform moderation duties on the SK forums even at times when we aren't in a position to comment on the feasibility of player requests. That activity shouldn't be mistaken for apathy about the content of your posts, though I do understand that it can appear that way.
Also, I should have moved this thread to Suggestions a long time ago. I'll do it now.
A players petition, 5 pages long just shoved under the carpet.
If anything this should have been moved to the "Demand/Necessity" forum....oh wait.
Still... +1
+1 = signed = my opinion
eurydice: i dont think they refeer about GM or Moderators. they refeer more about Developers, because we know that GM and moderators dont have any influence or way to affect the game since your duty its to keep the good ambience and harmony between players. like Nick he has only commented on other threads but this one where is a petition and have 5 pages long its like a ghost for them which for us its a way to show us Apathy. Thats Why.
+1 to this petition but... lets face it guys. they dont care now its move to suggestions and 5 pages without an answer its a clear sign that they just dont care about old players and anyways the truth its: if old players leaves new players will come to replace them (in the way to "give money") so basically we are just a removable resource for them. not like the want to keep their fan base anyway. but oh well adding +1 to this petition in hope we get our words be heared.
The established, supportive player base should have the option to adjust their characters once to fall in line with the new character creation.
+1
Signed
+1
i dont care for the modifications because this can be obtained.
but not being able to play the new story content ever is what i'm unhappy about.
the missions show up. let us replay them.
Now that this is here in Suggestions, I feel obligated to post on it. What can I say? I'm generally a resident of the Suggestions Forum. Deal with it.
Silence -is- a clear response.
It's funny because the GMs and Devs hardly say anything on the Suggestions Forum, and yet some of the things that come up here do get considered, if not implemented. If silence is a clear response, then it must have multiple clear meanings, because their silence here hasn't meant one clear thing.
I refuse to sign this "petition", and that's not because I'm the founder of the guild <Crusher of Dreams>.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: OOO has no obligation to cater to "old knights". OOO is a business. Businesses exist to make money. "Old knights" have already invested their time/money into their game, and OOO has no further need of them as long as the game can attract new players. Sure, a little extra customer service might encourage "old knights" to spend a little extra time/money, but what they might spend is nothing compared to what new players might.
If you need an example of other business practices that seem to go against popular moral views for the sake of profit, see outsourcing. A company will lay off its employees and replace them with cheaper, outsourced laborers. The original employees ("old knights", if you will) are left jobless while the company continue to make money. The "old knights" think that's unfair, naturally. They've invested their time and effort into the betterment of the company, and the company "betrays" them by depriving them of their jobs. Does the company really care? Not really. There's no way that catering to the "old knights" will leave the company with more money than if they attract outsourced labor ("new players", if you will). "New players" are almost guaranteed to leave the company with more money because they're easier to please - they're looking for any job, as long as they get something out of it.
Would I like the ability to redo my character creation? Maybe. There's currently no way that I can change what kind of 0* equipment of the character into which I've invested the most time/effort, but I can add accessories if I want to. The inability to recreate my main account's character does affect that character, so it's reasonable to ask for such a provision. However, the about of work that OOO would have to put into checking which accounts existed pre-patch and into making some kind of usable item/interface that doesn't affect post-patch accounts is probably not worth OOO's time.
Would I like the ability to play through the new missions? Yes, and I have done so. This request is absolutely ridiculous. Doing the missions has virtually no effect on the character into which you've already invested your time/money. It only affects your experiences as a player. Make an alt, do the missions, and quit whining.
Personally, I'd rather see the proto sets upgradeable to some kind of neat 1* gear. Perhaps with some some of color change. (Volcanic, divine proto?) Just being able to change the color of an existing character's proto to standard colors would be nice too.
Aside from that, nothing in the character creation is at all attractive to me. Already changed my height, eyes, etc. 100k is not that much. Frankly, I can tell new players in town because they have mecha wings and a bolted vee, 90% of the time. I don't really like most of the head accessories.
I do appreciate you attempting to keep things civil, Tersakaff.