Leave the old ones alone.

Shard lines are to bombs as Pulsar and Catalyzer are to guns as Brandish, Sealed, and Spur lines are to swords.

Are they going to take the expanding bullets from Pulsar because it imitates bombs?

Are they going to take the sticking explosives from Catalyzer because it also imitates bombs?

Are they going to take the explosions from Brandish line charge attacks?

Are they going to take the sword-laser-projectile-how-does-this-work from Sealed lines?

Are they going to take the defining features of Spur left?

Nurp.

What I want to know is if they're removing the projectiles emitted by the Bombies since projectiles have absolutely nothing to do with bombs according to OOO.

Catalyzers shoot a projectile that when charged can explode
Brandishes slash things and explodes when you charge it
Sealed lines slash things and shoots [a] beam[s] when charged.

What a coincidence! Radiant Sun Shards explodes and then sends projectiles only when charged too!

I would say to leave the shard bombs alone.. I guess after Three Rings changes them I'll see if I still want to make one since it will just be a cluster bomb and not a unique bomb that takes a little skill to make good use with. If you want cluster bombs make a new cluster bomb line please. If you want to be technical shard bomb line is like a shrapnel bomb.. that always fires in the same 8 directions.

Honestly, Nick, I gave you this GREAT IDEA for an exploding Snowball Cluster Bomb, and you ignore it and change RSS instead.

Now, we all want cluster bombs- but at the expense of RSS? Now, don't think I'm just going BAWWW NOW I NO WIN AT STUFFS, I am perfectly capable of soloing all the way to Vana, no revives, without RSS at all. (With a 4* unheated Plasma Cap instead of a VT, no less.) This is just... ridiculous.

-"BUT IT'S NOT BOMB-LIKE!"
If you designed a special frag grenade so its frags shot farther at the expense of a large explosion, would it be a spreader gun or a grenade? Because that's what a Shard Bomb is right now: a grenade.

-"BUT IT'S OVERPOWERED, I DIE FROM IT IN LOCKDOWN!"
Want some cheese with your wine? RSS is currently a bomber's only chance against a huge crowd of drooling, rocket-shambling ToothPolaris Zombies. Want to tone down its power? Nerf FF, BTB, GF, DA, and Polaris, and we'll talk. (Although RSS, if changed, will efficiently make a base no-man's-land.)

Now, if you DO change the RSS, you said you'd reimburse us. Do so. Give us a free fragment bomb of some kind- you can add that as a new bomb. Something to give us a ranged option. The fragments can even be spread out, as long as they hit at a decent enough range to hit switches! This change, if implemented, will be screwing us over in Grim Gallery's "hall of bullets" and other such places.

Less than a square is not an explosion.

My point was more about how you seem to make a big deal out of the swords doing projectiles only on their charge attack and catalyzer only sending sticky bombs only on their charge attack when the same apply to RSS. It's only on the charge attack. The fact that the charge attack is all RSS has is irrelevant. Nobody uses a Polaris or Catalyzer for anything but their explosions. Noone would get a Brandish if it wasn't for their explosions. Sealed swords are okay without the charge but the fact remains that it's a non-gun that sends multiple projectiles as its charge attack, no different from RSS.

I've killed plenty of things with the initial explosion from, say, Ash of Agni. I assume I've killed things with the initial explosion from RSS, too, but I've at least popped a lot of grass with it.

I'm Actually looking forward to the new change, even though the shard bombs are "Powerful" as a bomber I do admit, they're ACTUALLY terrible for a BOMB, sure it does ludicrous damage to.. ONE enemy but as a BOMB it's terrible. What Nick is currently suggesting is creating an ACTUAL bomb rather than something that does only damage to one enemy. RSS is great for damage... but TERRIBLE for crowd control which in my opinion is what BOMBS are suppose to do -.-. I can see why the OP is ranting about the thing but at least WAIT until it's been changed before you create a petition. Who knows maybe the bomb actually will improve, like if the bomb's shards have a certain grouping maybe it'll still do ludicrous damage if placed properly, and to multiple enemies as well.

Can you honestly say you'd use the RSS as it stands if it didn't shoot?
No, hence this thread.

Edit: Upon thinking further upon this matter; yes! If I could plop down a crystal bomb without projectiles without charging (I believe this was both of our points: the bomb guns, bomb swords and gun swords all only acted as such when charging), I would use the crap out of it.

Right back atcha:
Can you honestly say you'd use Pulsar or Catalyzer if they didn't explode?
Can you honestly say you'd use Brandish if it didn't shoot explosions?

The explosions are the entire points of these weapons. This RSS replacing is like if Brandishes and Sealed swords all became elemental and shadowy Caliburs while Pulsars and Catalyzers turned into elemental and shadowy Blasters.

Not here to discuss, just putting in my official "signature" to leave the things I worked for and earned alone.

MOOSERZ }:O)

actually, I have used the rss blast point. A lot of time in lockdown people know how to dodge the rss... so... i try to lure the strikers into the blast point of the rss. That's how i get a lot of the strikers when i'm 1v1 is only because i have lured them into the blast point. The blast point is very powerful and any good bomber would know how to use it to their advantage, no matter the size of the blast point.

which is why i get a bit annoyed when people call me an rss spammer, because most of the time i'm killing by the blast point. I'm usually the first one people go after in large groups. I have to learn to dodge and predict.

The small blast point excuse is not a good one.

Zeddy is right. The point is they are taking a well liked weapon in the game and changing it almost completely, or so we think. It would be more useful and productive to see a new weapon introduced. And... just because they are making a five star version of it does NOT make it a new weapon. It's just a buffed up version of the former. That argument doesn't work either.

Make a BRAND NEW line and not just change something that many of us enjoy. There are many weapons i don't like in this game, mainly the polaris, but I wouldn't ask them to change it completely.

I applaud this new idea for a bomb. I think it sounds fun I have no problem with the idea of the new bomb. I just don't like it being a replacement for the current RSS.

I'm all for them introducing a new cluster bomb mechanic, but to take away the current shard mechanic in favor of that? Why remove one style of bombing for another when they can just simply make a new bomb line and give bombers a bigger variety of gameplay?

If Nick were to suddenly change his mind and go "Oh guys, we're gonna be changing the Brandish and Spur lines instead to keep them more into the style of swords", the amount of rage on the forums would most probably be ten-fold.

This should be a petition to fix Ionized Salt bomb (NOT RSS) as well.

Cluster bombs sound awsome, but not as good as shard bombs

Again, Zeddy, you are trying to change my point. The weapons they would become already exist. They are very effective, to the point where they are handed to every single knight in the game.

And bombs do have different functions. The Blast line is used for pure damage, much like the two I just linked. Vaporizers create status clouds after using a samller base explosion than the Blasts. the Vortexes suck enemies into a central point before exploding. The OCH Dark bombs explode, then create an area of constant damage.

I think that a lot of people don't understand what they said about the bomb being changed.
The current RSS shoots a set of 8 projectiles out in a ring.
The new RSS will have the central explosion that all bombs currently get, and then shoot out 8 projectiles that - instead of only hitting one target - will cause a smaller explosion, hitting several clumped enemies. They may or may not stop when they hit an enemy, per the current shards; the description is vague on that regard.

Assuming the worst case that the new bullets only stop when they've gone the full distance or hit a wall:
PVE is is hampered by the lack of a large single-target damage bomb. It would still have the range for sniping Puppies, and would still be able to attack groups at range.
In PVP the RSS can only hit once as it stand anyways. So when you bait that clone into the initial explosion, all 8 shards go out the full distance away instead of being completely blocked by his body. The explosions afterwards allow you to snipe, or interrupt a battle happening farther away. The only downside depends on how long the timer lasts on those shards, as is the case with every bomb.

@Heavy-Duty
It would still be better to have 2 bombs. One usable version of this new RSS, and one usable version of the old RSS. And of course, any changes to ISB are welcome.

@Lostillusion
You cannot argue that the new bomb is good before it has been released. Think about this- Nitronome isn't so hot in lockdown, why should this new RSS be? What if it just shoots random bombs in places that don't matter after causing a tiny explosion? What if it takes too long to charge? Too many unanswered questions for that... and the reason it was so good for taking out turrets was because it attacked fast, always shot in the same directions, and made things flinch. This new bomb will probably have a larger charge, and will certainly shoot in random directions. For all we know, it could be the new Irontech Destroyer... just another weapon that most players will never see or even think of using.

I totally agree with you. What I'm saying is that before we decide to start ranting, we should see what OOO does first.
And again, RSS only hit's once per shard making it terrible for crowd control. I understand that people are sad that a powerful bomb is being removed, one of the only bombs that require some skill, but hey as Fehzor says, we don't know what's going to happen. It could be an improvement, maybe the shard grouping will be small enough that if placed properly will still be able to hit an enemy 8x and still do ludicrous damage as well as any enemies around you or maybe it'll be a new Irontech :\.

On another note I think they said MORE BOMBS FOR THE BOMBER ARSENAL WOO! Isn't that something exciting for us to chew on? :P

The arsenal thread was just pointed out to me by guild mates, in fact.
Everything else sounds good, but with the knockback-into-shards thing there's no way this can fill the gap that the RSS does now.

Petitions.....when was the last time one of these worked......

So to my understanding, they're gonna make it work like a blast cube. Set the bom normaly, when it goes off it explodes like a blast cube, and sends out blast cube goop that also explodes.

That's almost like a bomb that goes off twice. Imagine the easy basecamps in LD. There are much better bombs to apply this too however, namely the heavy deconstructor.

The RSS/ISB should be changed though. Slightly.

1) Remove the monster bonuses and give them each slight, general buffs.

2) Allow the bomb to be aimed. The shards will always fire in perfect formation, but the intire direction of the bomb should be able to rotate based on what direction you are facing. That way it won't always fire in cardinal directions for some odd reason.

Woa, oat is still alive? You haven't logged on anywhere in two weeks... but anyway, back to the point....

We'll have to test out the new bombs to see if this is a nerf, but I can't see this working much better than a blast bomb (doesn't work too well) in PvP, so I'm guessing it's a nerf there. As for PvE, we'll have to wait and see. I don't understand OOO's attempts to get the three weapon types to fall under common grounds, I personally think the rules and restrictions for each type should be as open as this;

Swords move players forward after the first hit and generally do damage near the player.

Guns require reloading.

Bombs require charging and have a delayed effect.

That simple. Also, it seems kinda strange to remove a functional and fun to fight against/use weapon from the game.

Dinner just happened, so I'm not gonna bother with anything else.

The current RSS is the only thing that makes me fear bombers. The new RSS will be WAY easier to dodge, though may be better in pve.
Petition signed.

stop giving OOO such a hard time, for all we know this bomb could be better than the old way. NO ONE(atleast as Im aware of) has even tried this new rock salt bomb style.

god spiral knights players complain about everything jesus, man.

kive, we aren't at all saying it's a bad idea or that we don't want it. We're saying we want THAT AND RSS... they could just make it another branch of the rock salt bomb. I would love to try this idea of a bomb they have, I just want my RSS too.

I say, leave as is.

I like the new design. Well for the best of both worlds, only ISB gets the mechanic change.....

But I'm okay witht he full line change.

I don't want to really argue.