I'm not a bomber, but the new RSS sucks for several reasons: 1) The fuse on both the initial bomb and the shards is too long, 2) the shards don't have a large enough blast radius to be reliable, and 3) the shards are stationary, making it difficult to reliably hit fast-moving targets with them. I got the RSS just to try it out and see why everyone liked it so much. I was growing to like its method of bombing; it charged quickly, its fuse was quick, and its shards were like gunshots. It was fun trying to position the bomb so the greatest number of shards would hit enemies.

I tried out the new RSS in FSC today. It still damages things, and it is still fairly powerful (I think I saw it one-shot a few zombies at one point, but I could be wrong), but it's not really a fun bomb to use like the RSS was.

That same bombing mechanic would work just fine with other damage types. The current shadow shard bomb seems like it work wonders in RJP (I've never tried it there though), and an elemental/shock shard bomb with the same mechanic would work great against constructs and undead (like zombies. In my test run, it worked rather well against them, despite its flaws). But wolvers were almost impossible to hit with it, and I had to really work to damage Trojans with it. As a piercing bomb, it fails miserably against its intended targets. I don't know how the original RSS fared against devilites.

I'm normally a sword-leaning hybrid.

If OOO still wishes to keep this bomb mechanic, I strongly recommend at least reducing the charge and fuse times on the shard bombs, and perhaps also preventing enemies from auto-dodging the shards. Then, I might actually have some fun with these bombs.

@Oatmonster actually, in some very rare cases it was possible to bring shards through a barrier, but only very rarely.

I'd like to have input. As obvious, this has been an awful change to the bombing lines. Some people who were asked about the new change commented that it was an awful update. Others have said that now there's really no point in using the lines in lockdown or even bombs in lockdown because that was the best defense against clones and other groups. It seems like Three Rings is paying attention to the whims of swordies and gunners but turning a deaf ear towards those who actually use the bomb lines. I mean, There have been hundreds more posts against this update than there have been for it. One person wished to be noted "To show my [his] disappointment in making the bomber's lot even worse."* Here's a series of links that are proof that OOO doesn't really care about the general interest of the people affected by the changes:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/59515

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/60857

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/60889

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/60346

And just in general:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/forum

Also, I was quite pleased with the aesthetic look of the ISB and RSS bombs before they got changed and now they just look like lumps of (respectively) shiny plastic and dull trash. The least OOO could do is to keep the look of the old bombs :/

A quote from a player who was very disappointed by the updates: "It's just that players are all giving the same feedback to Three Rigs Design that we gave in testing. They didn't listen to us in testing and they won't listen to us now."** I think that I can say that >70% of Spiral Knights's experienced players who are affected greatly by this change feel the same way, that OOO has turned a deaf ear on Spiral Knights's population. It's even been noted that some players who didn't use RSS disliked the changes because it gave bombers an even more unfair disadvantage.

-Michaelb

*Quoted from Chrizmaniac
**Quoted from Dancinjen

You said it Kanoka.

It is a different bomb, a bomb that should have it's own new line.

My old RSS was the item of soloing and teamwork runs. It was used to eliminate things easily and the risk/gain factor was fair for trying to get the job done quickly. That said, I agree with Kanoka. A new bomb with new mechanics and new ANYTHING should and DESERVES to be a new bomb series, not a replacement. It is sad when the 5* of RSS does 40 LESS damage than old RSS to fiends. Even WITH a Fiend VH passive UV, that's sad. Not only that but that was the last of the split elemental damage weapons. Only ones semi left are DA and GF. AP and RSS were the only real split weapons, now its gone Bring back the old RSS, make the rest a new bomb line

@oat
Oh yeah, forgot about that. But yeah it is pretty sad when swords are the only split damage. It feels biased really. I understand most start with a sword, but still. Isn't fair to everyone in general.

im not sure their new name match the bomb effects like sunshard that does piercing. sunshard sounds more elemental, so why not shange the names to fit the bombs damage type.

OOO always seems to completely ignore our questions on unpopular changes while they have all the time in the world to comment on threads like this, this and this, and when we do stuff like petition we get shoved under the bed (suggestions). It's very unprofessional of them in my opinion.

I read through the various threads on the forum (both sides of the debate). Here is what I propose will not be included in the letter I'm writing to Nick's boss.

1. how to tweak the new shard bomb mechanism to be more usable or enjoyable; (this is development's decision, not the decision maker's)
2. Nick or OOO sucks; (personal opinions)
3. if you do X to my RSS, please also do X to weapons Y (e.g. Polaris, Catalyzer, Brandishes). (these are off topic)

What I propose to focus on:

1. a good number of customers (some of them were testers) have questions or doubts about the rationale for the change, but these queries were never addressed. We like Nick to provide full disclosure of the motive behind the change and to have a healthy discussion with the people who are most impacted by the change;
2. we do not understand why the new change cannot be encapsulated into a separate package that is independent of existing mechanism. A full disclosure would be appreciated;
3. many SK players have developed emotional attachment to this weapon (Radiant Sun Shards). We love it, we want it back, this is what your customers want. Can you reflect these concern to Nick please?

Once we narrow down what the letter should be about. I'll write the letter and publish it online. What you can do is, print the letter, fill in the blanks (your name), sign it and mail it to Three Rings in San Fransciso. I'll verify the address for you guys ahead of time.

Feel free to comment on the proposal. I probably will write the letter over weekend. So if you feel there are things that need to be changed, please post in this thread.

From where I'm from (Canada), it costs $1.05 to mail to San Fransciso. Ten people sending letters would cost $10.50 > $9.95. These money could very well be spent on purchasing CE from OOO instead of paying post offices to voicing our concern. I urge the SK development team to take a good, hard look at what their recent decision has done, and why these revenue (which should be yours to keep) ended up in another place.

At last, stop with the petition. It never worked. If you want things to happen, save up $1.05 and mail a letter. That's roughly equal to the cost of one medium iced coffee at McDonalds. You can live with that, right?

I wonder what would happen if we all went into the clockworks into T1 parties and urged people not to play the game? This is the power that guilds hold over the game, and because you all could do that, it is indirectly your fault (the signers) that this happens. If you don't like it, then take action. Don't make another petition, OOO won't care about that. And before you say that I'm not, consider that I have a guild and that I'm trying to build it up enough to do stuff like this- as was advertised to me here: http://www.spiralknights.com/about.xhtml

Seriously guys. $1.05 per person isn't a lot. But when we have as few as 10 letters sent to Mr. James, that is a much stronger message than doing another useless petition that sinks in 2 weeks.

Have you ever wondered what would Nick's response be, when his boss asks him "Why are these money out there that should be throwing into my company, is being spent in postal mailing service?"

Sorry to hear your lack of enthusiasm. RSS change has hit a lot of us at emotional level. I think you should get some rest.

NYET!
NO!
NON!
NEE!
TSAA!
NU!
NO DICE!
NOTHING TO IT, BUT NOT TO DO IT!
VETO!
NO WAY JOSE!

this is the reply i got from the text i sent to OOO.
Whats happened, happen. Cheer Up, at least they didnt make the Trollaris bullets minute or anything

They need to change it back. It was a bomb on par (almost) with swords and guns.
RIP
Bombers being almost good.

So let me get this straight, I am one of those skolvers with ASI FF and GF and yes i use duel hearts too. I also have some awesome uv's as well. But what your all missing the point here is that this isnt about the Skolver's with this setup controlling LD. Nick clearly stated that this bomb was not a bomb. It was a gun that clearly shot in every direction and did not act as a bomb. Every other bomb didnt do that? It's range was ridiculous! it covered the whole screen! not even a gun could get that range, how would you like it if swords or guns had the same range as this bomb? no other class had that advantage. And i hate how every one is like "well just get rid of every other bomb while your at it"....What the hell kind of reasoning are you trying to make? No those bombs worked as bomb! NOT GUNS! They kill me in their fair form status death. Still annoying, but at least it stuck to its class charm. So please stop trying to justify this lose by sayin that "WHY NOT JUST MAKE IT SKOLVERLANCE FOREVER!!!!" cause that is absolutely stupid and none of the skolver users are saying that. As much as I'm glad that those RSS Spammers are gone, it was literally the only thing you could succesfully spam over and over and be OP with that other weapons couldnt do

Although I am a gunner and not a bomber, I will happily forgive whole fiasco (especially tickets) if RSS comes back.

A bomb is by definition a stationary object that does damage. so by your logic im going by this. If it explodes at all is a bomb. if i stand in a corner in a room and shoot a polaris, its a gun, so what if it explodes with the bullets. Guess what, you stand in a corner with an old RSS, does the same thing like a gun. Any other bomb, would be a....BOMB and not shoot anything! Now swords as bombs? A brandish line sends lil explosions that go in 1 direction. NOT EVERY DIRECTION! your saying bltiz had the same range? no it doesnt and also it does One Direction, not all of them. name one other weapon in game that did damage in every direction in a gun manner. So there goes all your logic

RSS change, despite not being able to say I was attached to it, seemed pretty dumb to me regardless but that doesn't mean we should be too optimistic now, eh?
I'm just being realistic.

Square (now Square-Enix) developed this RPG called Final Fantasy V. There is this Easter egg in which you can pick a "Brave sword" or a "Chicken knife". What do they do? Brave sword begins with very high attack level but will decrease its effectiveness for every battle you run away. Chicken knife begins with very low attack level but will increase its effectiveness for every battle you run away.

Chicken knife, doesn't act like melee weapons. Why would a weapon increase in attack power when you escape?? But it turns out this is one of the most popular, fun to discover Easter egg in the entire game. Because it gives players a different way to approach the game.

Inconsistent? Of course it is. Fun? Hell Yea!

The following is specifically target towards Angerday and his blog articles.

Article 1
Article 2

Does the Easter egg metaphor above make more sense now? Inconsistencies are perfectly fine because this is a game and it is suppose to be fun! There is absolutely no problem at all when a weapon acts out of character, because it gives opportunities to players to look at the game in a different way.

Now looking at what you wrote in Article 1. I can see how people take advantage of the old RSS in PvP. Point noted, but the current approach to "fix" this problem is not right because it is intruding people who are not abusing (and at the same time having fun) with the old RSS.

Looking at article 2. Shenny seems to get the point. Guys, if you really get pwn'd so bad by the old RSS in PvP, be creative and find a way around it? As for what Angerday said. I'm afraid I totally disagree with you. It is the same argument that Nick put up earlier: we need to be consistent with weapons in a game. Again, please look at history and be very clear about the need of consistency. In science and math, yes, you need to be consistent or otherwise people will get confused about what you say. In gaming, WFC. It's suppose to be fun and this patch right now, not only pisses a lot of people off, but many people (including myself) believe this is what could make us never look back into this wonderful game SK we used to know.

I understand the blog Adventure is Delicious has recently received blessing from Nick. But it is exactly because of this kind of blessing the editors of the blog need to be more mindful about the appearance of involving in potential conflict of interest. I urge the editors of the blog to pay more attention to balance the interest between serving the SK community (i.e. represent the interest of SK community) and protecting its image in the eyes of Three Rings.

you know what worries me? that the most recent changes are because the "PvP" and the only reason to say its OP its because the "PvP".

The reason that this worries me its because another MMO game i used to play before got a lot of so called "balances" that nerfed most of the PvE game play and thus made it only PvP focused game in a PvE oriented game. so i just leave the game. because it leave some classes aside because their "balance" thanks the "pvp" and thanks to those people who whine because they cant win without look a way to get around the problem, sadly those updates reduce the poblation of said classes and the worse thing useless in PvE with some spells so they get replace with other classes that got the buff.

i dont see a reason why Bombers cant have a good weapon, we swordies have brandishes, Da, GA etc, gunners Polaris, Catalyzer etc, So why no bombers? why so much hate to a single bomb that requires SKill to kill something for 1 hit k.o?. what would be the real reason behind this? its because many people got pwn with this bomb in PvP, i dont think some of those fellas would complain if a bomber bring that bomb in their runs in a PVE arcade group to make things faster for the group.

sure a guy with polaris can push me back the enemies in pve, but he is helping the group, sure i can get hit by some of those enemies that he push with the gun and made me fail a hit, but its a game im having fun sure he does, i dont know why others just rage about that. in the same way the are doing with this bomb that was a few of the offense bombs for the bomber. but as far with those guys that say "RSS needed that debuff" sure will have a fun with a bomber with nitronome pushing and blind yourself everytime they use a bomb, but hey bombers are supposed to be supportive with only haze bombs, but sure he is supportive with a old style RSS before this update, i dont see why wrong whats wrong with them with that bom in PVE.

anyway i give +1 to this petition but well its useless anyway like anger says, this not going to change RSS this not going to be readed by gamedevelopers, an answer or an opinion about this matter would be so great for the community to read their reason that i guess every upset bomber would want to read.

another thing i would like to read: Besides the: "its because not bomblike" "its because not must kill things with 1 charge" "its because its op" i want to read Another reason that nobody has posted in this thread about why this bomb deserved the debuff.

oh well

Well written, and I only found one sentence that requires editing:

"We feel that perhaps the change is a bit [hastily] and it could use more testing before deployment."

Change to:
"hasty"

or, better:
"We feel that the change was implemented too hastily..."

/2 cents

I hope you guys realize that Cleaver is a game designer himself and is well accustomed to dealing with disgruntled fans that are unhappy with game rebalancing. Whereas you're unlikely to have much success trying to send such a letter to any CEO, I imagine you'll have even less luck with Cleaver.

What was done to the RSS is really nothing compared to what happened with Blockades, Wars, and Island dominionship in Puzzle Pirates. Many more players had vastly more invested (both financially, in game and out, and emotionally) for far longer and did not want a lot of the things that happened but he pushed on to maintain his vision of the game.

I'm sure that won't deter you guys from trying, because lol the opinion of someone else regardless of reason or history, so I wish you guys the best luck my sarcasm can muster.

Islands were given out to Flags (guilds) in the alpha/beta. Those Islands were essentially homes, physical and limited places. There were only so many of them and each only had so much room (to build shops on) and commods (which spawns what were basically mats). In PP, you could take someone else's Island away via a Blockade/War. This is one thing. You could then build shops (which whoever built kept or could give/trade/sell) if you were that Island's owner. You couldn't remove shops (there were ways but it was incredibly impractical and thus virtually impossible to do without consent from everyone involved). Any commods that were bulldoze/built over by a shop are lost forever. That island now permanently spawns less of that commod, in association with how much was bulldozed over. So even if you took your island back, it now has however many shops your enemy built on it that you can't remove, will stay there potentially forever for them to profit on, and your island's economic worth may have permanent diminished. Nice thing to happen to a home.

Island Entitlement happened for two reasons. First, for the aforementioned pre-release giveaway. Second, initially (on Midnight, the first live server) Islands weren't fought over because no one wanted to give up their "home." The leading flags pretty much divided the Islands like slices of pies instead of fighting over them. Cleaver wasn't too pleased, changes happened that weren't part of the original plan to "encourage" fighting, people who didn't want any part of what was essentially the large scale PvP game and just wanted to be left alone on what they felt was their home and flag's identity were upset, other stuff happened.

In hindsight, a good deal of it was before doubloon oceans really grew popular. Doubloon oceans (F2P servers, doubloon being like CE) versus Sub Oceans. So actually for a good chunk of the whole entitlement/emotional attachment deal there wasn't really much in out of game finance attached. Dubs were a different deal entirely since most Blockades on dub oceans were sinking (stuff was permanently lost, stuff that used a large amount of dubs to make). But I think most people on there saw it as a natural thing of the Blockade game and it wasn't abnormal for blockades to sink what was probably hundreds of dollars worth of dubs.

But yeah, back on topic, people felt incredibly attached to their homes. Didn't really matter much to Cleaver.

Edit: Anyone who also played PP originally have anything to add? It's been forever so I may have missed some details.

I played ypp for like 7 years. I started when I was 14 end of alpha/beginning of beta... encouraging the blockades was for the good of the game as a whole. It made things more interesting. It was something that really brought more people into the game.

It was dubloon servers that didn't like losing their stuff, especially in sinking blockades. A blockade was only sinking if both flags declared war. The boats weren't cheap, especially the war brigs and merchents.

The biggest complaint that i can remember in the game was flags taking over islands and building on the island too much.

The game has a whole other feel to it because of the political scene, something that I hope we can bring into this game in a less complicated version.

It's not that he doesn't care it's that developers can see the bigger picture better than we can. Maybe more was going on with the RSS than we thought. But... the IDEA of the RSS is in our heads now and I would like to see something of the nature back into the game. It gives a new dimension to bombs.

Now as for you, Dorael. I don't see you as an opponent. When I said that you're arguing for the sake of arguing... it's because I see you pop up in many of these threads and trying to some how in your own little way... make sense to them. But when people SO STRONGLY disagree with you they aren't going to listen to you. Is it right? no. But I said in that same post that it's like throwing a rock at a brick wall... you aren't going to get through. Should that in any way keep you from voicing your opinion? no, but at the same time... some times it's better to say what you want to say about a situation and then leave it alone... or just not say anything at all. With all this rage? with many of us (including me) being upset with how this situation has been handled? it's better to let something like this rage for a while then let us begin to be logical. Some times, for me, I need to realize how emotional I am and step back then come back to it with a more open mind. I have a feeling most of us here... that's what we need right now. Rage...then step back and maybe later we'll start to be a bit more logical about it. Does it mean we like it or approve? no. It just means... the change has been made... we adapt and we then see what we can do to make the situation better. Not worse.

On that note, I do not agree with sending cleaver a letter. We are trying to make the situation better. And if you think that the developers are in there trying to screw everyone over, something tells me... you're wrong. You have to remember that this game is their JOB and every job someone has it goes on their professional resume. If they screw us over, they are screwing themselves over. They aren't going to make a crappy game. With as many people that play this game? the forum posters ARE the minority. We are the more vocal. Most of us are type A personalities... it's like putting a bunch of lions in a den and throwing a single fish in for dinner. It's time for us to calm down and regroup. Think of ways to make the game better, and not bring too much of the past back into the game. What is done is done, we can't change it. But we can change with it and either care enough about the game to try to make a more positive impact... or let the game go and find a new one to play. Take your pick.