I'f you're still interested in a difference of opinion aswell as summary to this post I've updated my "practical" version http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/40772 It now address most everything here
Guild Hall Upgrades - Fully Updated (Seerusly).
Fri, 01/20/2012 - 00:41
#52
Fixed the practical guide
Fri, 01/20/2012 - 03:16
#53
Best Idea Yet
I also thought the guild hall could do a bit of upgrading. The guild hall should be different styles as well, not just the same old style that every other guild has. This could also help me to get more people in my guild, which lacks members.
Fri, 01/20/2012 - 05:19
#54
+1
There are issues that would have to be worked out, but for the most part I agree with all the suggestions here.
Fri, 01/20/2012 - 14:09
#55
@Myztic
My Guild is quite small as well, but at the moment there's almost no reason to have a Guild except for an extended friends' list/"friends"-only chat. In most games Guilds feature perks, abilities, etc. that enhance your gameplay...I think the least SK should have is a customizable Guild Hall.
@Echoez: Surely it's not a perfect idea, but I have faith that if the Devs implement even half my ideas then they'd consider at least most the possibilities of faults therein. =)
@Tovvok: lol, Yeah the "Guild Manager" thing confused me, no worries.
Thanks everybody! :)
~Sev
Fri, 01/20/2012 - 14:52
#56
sounds good..
these ideas would make game even more interesting...
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 11:27
#57
@Smrth:
I thought so too.
*cough* Hidden bump
~Sev
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 15:59
#58
My Aching Fingers
It's been forever since the last reply to the reply to the reply....to the reply has been posted, and as you can tell, my fingers feel like a herd of buffalo stampeded on their hooptips and took extra care to pound down on said fingers.
All self-pity and grumblings aside, however, enjoy the product of a few-days mulling and typing!
1) I completely agree on everything you said save a few points, and so would like to expand on a few points. First of all, 'kicking' a player at the moment is not possible from GH, but very well might have to be if visitors are to come knocking. I do agree that if implemented, it would be a very sharp and point sword that would try to place itself on your chair tip-up at every opportunity; suppose that you, as a GM, had to deal with a rather unruly and foul-mouthed knight who could not reported because he technically was not breaking any rules....how would you go about removing/dealing with said knight? I know this most likely the only argument for a 'kicking' function in GH, but it's still a legitimate concern.....if there is a better way, or if I'm being nitpicky, disregard the last bit of rambling.
As for the 'bribing' section, I don't believe there would be a real solution to that, unless a 'fee' system was implemented for Guilds; that, however, would definitely discourage players from joining guilds, and I strongly disagree with the notion of having to pay in order to become part of a guild.
Concerning the Guild Vault (GV), however, I suppose if one implemented the Guild Manager (I believe this was Towwok's idea?), it might make methods simpler, and ease the issue of security to rest...however, if a Guild were to disband, and there was leftover CE/CR in the Vault, how would it be distributed? Would there be a log as to who put in what amount, and how much each person who donated should get back?
2) Good to know we agree. Moving on. xD
3) I noticed there was no mention about the Guild-rotation system...does that mean we are in agreement with the Roulette system (Yes, I coined that name just now)?
The search-function filters seem to be in order, save for the Popularity filter, which I believe we've both inferred that we do not want this filter happening....the alphabetical filter I don't see as much of an issue, regardless of the name-creating. Why, you may ask? Well, consider this: if a player makes a guild name so their guild is at the top, hey want people to see that guild name, click on it, ask to join...........but if there isn;t anything interesting happening within the guild, or the guild just feels like a brand on their face, they will leave in search of a better, more 'guild-like' guild. Let's face it, if you create a guild just to rack up numbers, you will (as they say) have a day of glory, then the stock market will crash.
4) Oops, got ahead of your numbers......well, I hope this is still followable.
I'm glad you mentioned that, because here's what I say: YES!!!!!!!!!!!! Regarding the missions, there is absolutely NO order whatsoever, and every knight will (hopefully) start and progress with different missions than any other. In that sense, the mission order would be, again, like roulette, save for the fact that any mission already completed would not show up in the same way, shape or form that it already has existed in. In this sense, I'm hoping to get away from the 'WoW' type missions, or the repetitive, generic mission-types. The only drawback is that these missions would then have to mesh together in any order possible so that a storyline could slowly seep into gameplay. Of course, that leaves room for intuition; the missions could have flexibility of feeding the player bits and pieces of tales and information (perhaps why there's a random knight deep in the Clockworks with no support, testing out minerals, or why the Twins/JK/Vanaduke/Snarbolax keep respawning/have duplicates) without telling a linear plot outright, and leaving the player to piece together the clues and figure out their version. That, I believe, is the best way to solve the little kinks and knots that avoidance of linear plot creates.
When I discussed GC, my idea was literally a Guild free-for-all for one of the events (if 4 guilds participate, then there are 4 teams which compete against each other), an enhanced Super Mario Smash Bros Brawl. For other events, your interpretation of 4 Guilds versus 4 Guilds may very well take place, but I agree that it might be too much for slower PCs. I still think it would be a nice idea though.
Severage my friend, I have been waiting AGES for you to ask that question! :D
...well, not really, but you get what I mean; that trophy, if won by a temp-guild, provides incentive (and a bit more business) to create one's own guild in order to display that trophy. You can think of it as a permanent and very rare decoration for the Guildhall which, I might add, would bring many a knight wanting to join the guild of the player that won the trophy.
I'm not entirely sure how I missed the reference to other guild-prizes other than the trophy....must've been rather tired; what other prizes would you be referring to?
5)I like your solution to the 'mercenary' issue, and consequently, I happen to have a suggestion that might fix the 'one-guild-one-knight' issue as well: If one player were to go missing from their guild team on the day of the event, then that guild has one of a few choices: withdraw from the current event, enlist a willing member from their guild to fill in for the missing knight, or choose a member from the 'Wild-Card' (WC) pool. Now, any knight that is part of the WC pool must NOT have any affiliation with any other guild in order to ensure loyalty to any team needing a WC. If the third option (choose a WC) is taken, then a member from the WC pool is chosen at random, and assigned to the proper Guild team. This way, the Guild team missing a member cannot complain about unfairness (they get to compete, and they chose a WC a random), and all other teams cannot complain either, for the same reasons.
6) Fiddlesticks. I'll keep the missions in mind regardless, it would be fun to discuss them after all the bugs have been worked out from GH improvements. Speaking of which, besides the bugs currently being worked on, are there any we haven't talked about/caught? (speaking to both Echoez and Severage)
I'm going to need more than just rest for my fingers. Anyone have spares lying around?
~M (figured I needed to shorten that xD)
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 16:27
#59
INSANITY o_o
I'm half asleep from reading the main post, and insane after reading the comments. Nice job, lots of thought, and would make the game better overall. This is awesome. +4
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 17:14
#60
Your fingers ache?
That's new to me. Clearly. :P
1) Well, there was a wall of text here, but I reconsidered my idea. What a waste. Anyway, my answer is: The Guild Master would only be able to ban visitors. He wouldn't be able to ban members of the Guild. If the Guild Master started banning them left and right, the Guild would die, so yeah..
Also, the ban would last 2 hours for that specific Guild.
Yup fees are a bad idea; we want to increase incentive for Guilds. I don't see any way around the bribing either...so that either means that friends and Guilds wouldn't be able to help each other out...or...people would have to play a trust game. I think, though, that at the moment, the community isn't so terrible with that sort of thing. Any Guild Masters who did that would surely have their name thrown around, and their Guild name 'thumbs downed' for lack of a better expression, and probably wouldn't help them.
It's actually Tovvok, not Towwok. lol. But you make a great point here, I never thought about what would happen if Guilds disbanded...But yes, if you read my OP (Sorry for being critical here..but it's been there the whole time..), I quote:
"A log would also be available to show who donated what, for promotions, possibly demotions, maybe even Guild events and so on. This way you don't have guildmates trying to lie their way into a promotion, win an event, you get the idea."
Therefore, the donated amount would be returned to all the donors; whether or not they were in the Guild at the time of donation. This may or may not be difficult to program, but I believe it'd be necessary. I don't believe I specified in my OP, I may want to edit it; but Officers and Guild Masters would be the only ones able to look into the Vault Log.
3) No. It doesn't. XD While I, even I, may not be able to come up with a better system, I believe that there are more efficient ways. Whatever OOO decides to do will inevitably be discussed on a mass scale, rather than just you and me, and a solution will pop up eventually. I believe, however, that we can put this to rest as far as our discussion.
But yes, the Population Filter is a No-no, and you make a good point about the Alphabetical Filter. I'm in agreement there.
4) Yupperdoodles, nothing much else to say here. That's simply how it'd have to work.
Guild FFAs could be fun, but may end up with some Guilds strategically knocking out the others, thus creating a 1v1 in the end, whereas before they were 'allied'. I don't actually see that as a problem really, because they'd still have to battle each other, but it may put a damper on the competitive qualities. One of the things SK prides itself with is a very simple, clean, animation-style game, with low CPU-usage. Even still, I find that many players take *cough* forever *cough* to load, especially in BN and LD. So 4v4 may be an issue.
Hm...that would be some nice incentive to create your own Guild...but I foresee a problem here. The problem I foresee is that if your Temp-Guild actually formed into a single Guild, therefore saying "Hey, we beat all the Pros, and just started our own Guild. We've got all 4 trophies here to prove it, join us.", they'd have to be able to put in all 4 Trophies. Right? Well, that'd mean more than the Guild Master would be able to put in trophies.
This could, potentially, cause unrelated Guild Masters to provide those trophies into their Guild. The great part though, is that the trophy would say the player's name, so...he'd have to stay in the Guild for it to mean anything. Naturally, the trophy would be removed from the Guild and put back in said player's inventory if he left the Guild. So, maybe this wouldn't be much of a problem after all. As for the other prizes I was referring to...I believe I was simply referring to the hypothetical prior-mentioned prizes that may or may not be in the game? We came up with a list a few posts back.
5) Right on. I believe about half-way through reading what you said, I understood the entire idea. lol.
6) Echoez would be the one to answer that question. It's my idea, so obviously, I didn't see any large flaws in it. :P
Man...now that I zoom out a little bit, this idea is really complicated. I totally foresee this happening in-game...
Meh. Maybe my hopes are just way too high.
~Sev
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 17:16
#61
@Isisdelltion:
You commented while I was typing up my post to Mwahahaha. Clearly, it took me way too long to type that. LOL.
But your comment and support is greatly appreciated!
Especially the part that you lived through it. +4 to you as well!
~Sev
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 19:15
#62
New idea for Missions
I don't particularly like the idea of unique missions that just randomly pop up, and the rewards for which are paid for by some ingame diety.
Instead, have a player based thing you could do through the billboard (which would promote people looking at it) is that a Guildmaster (or Officer) upon opting to create a thread, can elect it to be a Quest, and can choose the objectives of which from a list (to make a quest similar to the randomized ones in the Pokemon: Mystery Dungeon games) such as the following:
ANNHAILATE QUEST
Defeat the set amount of enemies, with certain conditions
(check one box from each of the following categories)
OBJECTIVE:
Kill, Freeze, Poison (etc)
AMOUNT:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 50 (etc)
TARGET:
Gremlins, Slimes, Trojans, Snarbolaxes, Retrodes, Any Monster, (etc)
Additional Parameters
And then possibly have a location, time limit, opt to do without damage or without dying, killing with status damage (such as fire damage or thaw damage. This quest type could also be used for setting more difficult parameters to fight bosses with)
Also, these missions could be performed in a party of two or more, where everyone in the party has and contributes to the same objective.
The submitter of the quest could write up a background for the quest:
"Gremlins armed with Pyro-weapons snuck through the clockworks into a Knight's Camp caused heavy injury to several knights. Take revenge by setting alight 10 gremlins in the 3rd Strata."
This would be a rather difficult quest, because although the mission only takes place in early tier 2, gremlins are resistant to elemental damage. This specific quest would be aimed at late tier 2 players.
Quest Reward
Furthermore, the submitter of the quest would set a reward for the quest, and a quest taking fee, and everytime a player takes the quest, they pay the amount stated. A small portion of this could go to the submitter of the quest, while the majority of it adds to the reward, meaning a quest that many have failed at will be worth more and more. Say for the above quest, the reward could be set as 1000 crowns. The entry fee could be 100, 30 crowns of that could be set aside for the person who created the quest, while the reward then becomes 1070. Once the quest is completed, the gathered cash from failed attempts goes to the quest creator, and the reward goes to the completer.
If no-one can (or chooses to) complete the quest, the submitter of the quest can remove the quest from the board. He gains the base prize money back, but all players are refunded the money they paid. (the 30 crowns plus the additional 70 (from the 1070) would be returned to the player who paid the 100, while the 1000 would be returned to the quest submitter) A quest submitter cannot remove the quest within 24 hours of the last time the quest was taken. (to prevent them from cancelling the prize money just before a player completes the quest)
(or instead of being 30/70, it could be something like 90/10 so that the quest submitter earns the money back from the reward eventually, should enough people fail, this would promote more quest creation, but becomes a little greedy)
Another Variation:
SPEED QUEST
Complete a certain level within a set time
(check one box from each of the following categories)
LOCATION:
SpecifyFloor/SpecifyStrata/SpecifyTier/anywhere
LEVEL TYPE:
Boss/Arena/Lichenous Lair/Candlestick Keep/Treasure Chamber/any (etc)
TIME LIMIT:
specify time between 20-600 seconds
(this quest type could be used for setting time limits for bosses)
Other ideas for quest variations i had:
Search and Rescue:
Find and Save Snipe from Set Depth
Assassinate:
Kill a certain regular monster with severely elevated stats (and model size)
(the monster itself would just drop the usual loot in order to keep game balance, the reward would be in the quest reward)
With this method, heaps of quests could be created without OOO having to program new quests every week.
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:41
#63
Death By Speed Typing
I swear I heard a sizzling noise when I stuck my fingers into a small bowl of water. The pain is also gone...I think I know my problem now.
Note to self: when on a roll, roll slower .
1) Future readers will thank you endlessly for your mercy. If your answer is the simplified version of that wall of text, I wholeheartedly share that sentiment (rather not spend the rest of my night trying to decipher a brilliantly written essay)........unless said wall contained some juicy morsel of an idea, in which case I demand you put it back so that I can tear it to pieces. In a good way.
Bans work. Idea's good. 'Nuff said.
Myself and I had an extended argument about whether or not it was 'Tovvok' or Towwok', and strangely enough neither of us could be bothered to check the actual thread/post made my said person. LOL. Thank you with confirming with myself......or was it I? Nevermind.
Logs are good, I believe I may have missed that in the OP; decided halfway through that the OP was larger than the Great Wall of China, and that there was no point reading the rest because it was probably just as good as the first half. My bad. I should probably go back and read the rest just to be sure.....
2) and 3) Fiddlesticks again. LOL I'll have to agree with you on that; I do agree that there should be a system somewhere other than Roulette and List that might work better, but at the moment Roulette is the only system I can find that would, with the sheer number of Guilds that exist in SK, give each and every Guild a chance in the spotlight. Of course, that number would fluctuate depending on how many guilds were recruiting, and/or if they wanted their guild to be visited.
By 'Population', I suppose you're referring to the Popularity of a guild, the degree to which a specific Guild is liked, not the degree to which a Guild grows in size, akin to a cat that ate one too many treats? If you are referring to Population, however, I suppose taht would also be a no-no.
4) Cool, we can say that we have a working Mission mechanic....we'll leave the finer details on how to implement it when we start to work on the missions themselves.
In relation to most FFAs, that fake allegiance is pretty much inevitable, or otherwise impossible to avoid should such ideas arise...but then again, such is the nature of FFAs. Since equipment only goes up to 5* however, and each Guild has it's own share of skilled players which have been selected to participate in such an event (I do not believe that a Guild would send a poorly equipped and inexperienced team to represent them, it would make any Guild look bad is that happened), forging a temporary alliance with another team shouldn't provide much of an advantage, and even more so if the other 2 teams decided to join forces; you'd just have 2 super-teams duking it out, and dealing out the occasional KO to a temp-allied member in collateral (AOE) damage. So yes, not much of a problem.
What is more of a problem is the speed of PCs...in which case, can't be helped if most players do happen to own a faster PC; all it means that anyone who chooses to participate in the GC using a slow PC must be prepared (if applicable) for some serious lag. Possibly also spending most of their time watching their character take a nap 2 seconds into the game, and every 4 seconds thereafter courtesy of the enemy team.
I rather enjoyed that train of thought concerning the trophies; it had a nice trail to it. Regardless, yes, not much of concern. As for alternate prizes, considering what SK has to offer in terms of items one can gain through various methods, I cannot find much to be concerned about; CE, if awarded to a temp-guild, can be divided equally amongst the players in that team, or (if not entirely large amount of CE) given to each player, and the same goes for CR. I see nothing wrong with that happening; it is after all a prize, meant to be used, not necessarily just for the guild. Following this train of thought (as a modifier to prizes given to established Guilds), as an extra bonus for being an established Guild, X amount of CE/CR could be given to each player that participated in the GC and won, in addition to the CE/CR awarded to that Guild's Vault (as discussed beforehand).
5) Good to know I'm very clear in my thoughts and explanations. I suppose I could say that the last bit is there 'just in case'.
6) Very true indeed. Oh, how I wish I could critique my own ideas. That only works....well, never, I'm afraid. It's up to you, Echoez! Well, you and every other person that reads this post and hopefully decides to comment, offer ideas and critique.
This is quite a complex idea; I'm excited we've made it this far........makes me wonder if Eurydice, Poseidon or any other GM made it past the Great Wall of Words that is the OP. Please tell me they did, it would be a great pity if all this work went unnoticed by OOO.
It's good to at least have some hope for this thread Sev...after all, you put so much work into it-well, we both did lol.
To hope-.....oops, mini-wall of text. There goes some hope.
~M
Sat, 01/21/2012 - 19:28
#64
Gar. @Hexzyle
Seems like both Sev and I need to type faster LOL.
Thank you very much for the input though! I'll be extra sure to tear into your post carefully, good long criticism is rare these days. Again, I mean that in a good way.
Thank you all for your support!
Wow, my shortest post of all time in this thread.
~M
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 01:03
#65
@Hexzyle:
As you'll realize, we have decided upon a basic Guild Mission mechanic and are putting it to rest until Guild Hall Upgrades DO come out (When and if), so even though your input is awesome, we have basically decided to save it for another day.
If you don't mind though, Hexzyle, I'd like to Copy+Paste that into a Word document on my PC for later use, when we discuss more in-depth about Guild Missions. Of course, credit for it would go to you, and I won't until I have your permission.
@Mwahahaha:
One last time, I suppose? Here goes.
1) Haha. Glad to hear...but..just as an 'FYI', the Vault Log was in the first 2 paragraphs...*cough cough*
2 is 3?) I believe you missed a number somewhere...anyway...I was actually referring to Population, as in Guild Size. Which I believe is also a no-no. As I said before, it would simply segregate the large Guilds from the small Guilds. No fun for starters.
4) Um, I don't think I specified any concern with other prizes besides a Trophy...not sure where you got that idea. Maybe I implied it somewhere. I'll just not respond to the rest of the GC stuff and just say 'Sounds Good'. I did get a laugh out of the napping part, though.
I think that was the last huge bit of text. Oh DARN, that means it's time to update the OP. Sheesh by the time we're done the OP will be the first PAGE. So that means I'll have to go through everything we typed up all over again and summarize it and put it up there...oi vei.
Yup, we sure did put a lot of work into it. Boo-yah for persistence. :D
Whoa, that was way shorter than my last post...
EDIT: I have decided not to update the OP with the Guild Competitions just yet. Truthfully, I feel that it should be on a separate thread. Not necessarily because it's irrelevant, but there's so much on the OP already. I fear adding a couple more numbers would certainly scare away 100% of our readers instead of the already 75%. As with the Guild Mission specifics, we should keep these in mind for later Guild patches that would be epic too. We should probably put both of them on the same thread..and just label it 'Guild Patches' or 'Guild Ideas', or something. :P
~Sev
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 01:23
#66
Shooting Range
While the shooting range was a silly prototype for a mini-game, I find that explaining in vast detail is a luxury you can't afford with a wall of text so large. It was something I came up with off the top of my head, just as an example.
In the end, it was too difficult to explain, Drac's Sparring Room is a sufficient example, and it took up too much space.
It has thus been edited out of the OP.
Thanks,
~Sev
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 07:54
#67
@Sev
I have read the thread from top to bottom (although i admit i didn't really check who was replying to what when you started using the numbered points, I just kind of tried to figure out what you were saying :P) and yes, it is ok if you use the ideas I've submitted in this thread. If you mention my name that's cool, but I'm pretty sure if I wanted the credit for such an idea I could just direct said person/people to this forum node.
Now there are some pretty great ideas here, good enough to be implemented I reckon, but we gotta raise more awareness of this issue. Start convincing other players to take the Survey from the Spiral Uplink. (you can access this by opening up your mail and switching to the News tab) Take the survey multiple times until you reach the "Would you like improved Guild Halls" question, which you answer with a "Yes". (or whatever the affirmative choice is that is there)
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:38
#68
The Wheels are Still Turning
@Hexzyle: I second wanting to save that post into a Word document, but I feel I have not much need to do so until this thread is on the brink of being sent to the Graveyard. Hopefully that doesn't happen until the ideas outlined in this thread are implemented, though.
@Severage: I am in a state of wonder and amazement.....when I logged into the SK forum and looked for your post, I realized just after touching the wheel button on my mouse that -pause for emphasis and additional wonder- I didn't need to scroll to read the rest.
'Twas quite a saddening moment, really.
Regardless, we forge onwards: I do not believe this is the end to our puzzlings over complex matters, simply because I took the time an hour ago to completely read through the edited OP...and so found that I had a beef (or leg of lamb, breast of chicken, hunk of meat if you wish) with some of the ideas currently sitting there. Do you know what this means?
THIS!!!! IS!!!!!!!! SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! Well, not really, just a delay to the end of the beginning. After that, well, I supppose the missions themselves will be the meat and potatoes/rice of our next discussion.
1)Jelly Droppings. Oh well, my bad again. I've read the whole OP, so I should be good now.
2 and/or 3)Realized that after you mentioned it. It's been edited properly. Thank you for noticing.
4)Guess I was overthinking....at least the rest is agreed upon. Good to know my humour works without emoticons; glad you enjoyed that break from intellectual bashing that is our discussion. LOL.
5) Yes I realize there is no '5)' in your post, but this is where I outline my hunk of meat with the OP:
A) a small suggestion: perhaps to keep readers from balking at the Great Wall of China, a 'note to the reader' should be edited in to explain why
so much information is on the OP?
B) Either Tovvok's summary or a summary created by you/me should be linked a the beginning of the OP, so readers who choose not to read all
the brain spillings of this thread can browse that instead, and get a general idea of what these changes entail. Of course, if they want to know
all the intricacies of the ideas in this thread, it could be mentioned throughout the summary (and by the link to the summary stating it only
outlines the bare minimum) to refer to the OP/Original Thread (OT).
C) This is where my big hunk of meat with the OP comes in; it concerns the Guild Elevators (GE).
Now, I agree that Guild-exclusive elevators are a really good idea, but I also know that somehow they would have to be unique and different from the Arcade Elevators (AEs)...and so I propose the following:
Instead of having 4 different elevators for all variants of bosses, there could simply be one elevator. Now many of you will wonder "What can you possibly do with one elevator? The levels would get so BORING!"
This is where I say "HA! That's what you get for interrupting me; I haven't told you the good parts yet!"
I completely agree that if the GE is set up in the exact same format as the AEs it would be boring right off the bat, which is why I emphasize the uniqueness of the GE; instead of having the the Snarb, JK, Twins, Vana, etc bosses and runs, the GE would offer dungeons with mini bosses every 2 or three levels, in the same format suggested in the OP (T1 with T2 abilities, T2 with T3, etc), with most levels requiring 2 or more players to complete. In addition, each set of levels would have the same theme, with a bit of variance to throw more of a challenge into the levels (if jelly-themed, throw in some fiends so that it counters the jellies weakness to shadow damage). Ideas for mini bosses could be smaller version of each boss ( save for Vanaduke), or new mini-bosses could be introduced, such as a gremlin/fiend boss of some sort. Perhaps a walking robot boss?
Hopefully this new post does not increase the level of insanity growing in any readers minds (although I suppose this is another mini-wall of text).
Enjoy! Indulge! Comment!
You can come in on Sundays too, who needs weekends? --Pit Boss
~M
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:42
#69
Starting with 5.
5B) In other words, you want me to copy+paste the TL;DR (That is already there) and put it at the beginning of the thread. Done.
5C) I'd be with you on this, since I'm all for the uniqueness of GEs to be emphasized; however, I'm too lazy to take what you just said and adapt it to my Guild Achievements and Display Cases ideas.
So I'd request that you take that idea, figure out how it would work with Display Cases and Guild Achievements, and then tell me your suggestion. :D
Besides my own laziness, I have a legitimate excuse for not doing it myself; and that is, if I simply Copy+Pasted your idea, then I'd get your point across. If I then adapted my ideas to your idea, then your idea would get diluted in the process which will potentially make us have to do it all over again.
But also, I believe at this point that insanity is already established within our reader's minds. And that wall of text is only miniature compared to the Great Wall of China.
~Sev
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 13:45
#70
The OP....it keeps changing!!!
This is the most indepth thread on Guild Hall Upgrades I have seen so far...and I just realised that you have been updating the OP. Time to get my read on. Noticed a few errors:
1) Regarding the ability for a Guildmaster to ban a visitor of the guild for 2 hours, this ban should be able to be pardoned. It was extremely irritating accidentally kicking someone from your friend chat in runescape and having to wait 5 minutes until they could join again, 2 hours would be horrendous for an accidental kick.
2) a. The first section regarding the Guild Vault sounded a bit clumsy (to me, i dont know if its fine for everyone else). All you have to say is that there is a guild vault which is deposit-only, players may deposit Crystal energy and crowns into this vault. The guildmaster may then buy guild hall upgrades from a list with the Vault's Funds. Players donations would be logged, for various reasons, such as grounds for promotion/demotion.
b. (Adding my own idea here: When a player deposits crowns/CE, they can elect what they would like it to be spent on. Their choice would become a vote which would be multiplied by the amount they deposited. A.K.A, The more you deposit, the more say you get in where the money gets spent)
3) Add a wiki link to Rudkin, if you can, to help disinterested players in their herp derp question of "who's that?"
4) Not a correction, but my opinion, that the AH in the guild hall discussed in point (2) of the OP shouldn't exist, but the trade system discussed in (2.5) is excellent and should be used instead.
5) 5.5 that covers Guild elevators seems a bit out of proportion: 4 guild elevators? really? 1 is good. I mean, fathom how big the arcade is. Pretty damn big. The guild hall is nowhere near that size and couldn't support that sort of infrastructure. Random logic aside, elevators in the arcade have from 80-300 players in EACH. Therefore 1 guild elevator should be more than sufficient. And if you need more variation, have some sort of tier selection from the elevator like you have in the Arcade elevators. Oh, and I think that the 4 bosses should be just Arcade specific. Trophies can be transferred to the guildhall, but having too much stuff in the guild elevators is starting to make the regular elevators obselete. Nobody wants that.
6) Crests. Good idea, since we only have proto crests at the moment. I mean what the? An accessory with only 1 design? what's with that? That would look so out of place on a vog cub coat.
7) Move the bulletin board up in the OP. It may be simple but it is hugely useful and is a heavily desired thing in the guild hall. Unless you want to keep the repeatedly suggested items to the bottom to prevent stagnation:
Someone comes in, reads the top three points, being: "Bulletin Board", "Auction House" and "PvP Area" and goes Meh, nothing new about this thread and leaves.
8) When i said bulletin board operating like a forum, i mean it has the same interface as the mailbox, except each "message" is a different thread, opening a thread would reveal several different people's comments, then a space to place your own at the bottom. The "message/thread" could then be minimised by clicking the bar of it, just like your mail. That's what I've got in my head, but you might be thinking something different. Please share if you have a different setout planned.
I like the forum idea because it means everyone can contribute to the notices, like leaving a message for the Officers or Guildmasters asking for help, or a regular member leaving a note saying he'll be gone for a week and the other members can leave messages on their saying they'll miss him and can't wait till he gets back and stuff. More interaction than just restricting it to Guildmasters/Officers
Everything i didnt mention stuff about was perfect and i loved the ideas.
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 22:22
#71
@Hexzyle:
Yes, I have been updating the OP. I just recently added in a "Last edited date", so that it'd be more obvious.
1) Nice suggestion. It will be implemented into my OP.
2A) I think you'll have to excuse my long-windedness on there. I haven't even read it/proofread it at all (Since it never required much attention, unlike other parts of my OP). I will re-word it to be more readable/comprehendible.
2B) I'm not precisely sure that that would be very practical, but in a few cases it could be I suppose. I'll put it up there for consideration.
3) Certainly. I'll get on it.
4) Change the AH into a Guild Trading Room? I definitely wouldn't oppose that idea. The AH in the GH was placed there initially, when I first made the post. Which basically means, I was just trying to throw ideas out there and see what would stick. There's a lot more sense in the Trading Room being there instead of a long-range AH altogether, so it's likely I'll do that.
5) The reason there are 4 is so you can have all the bosses and Shadow Lairs within them. I *can*, however, edit it to 2 and put the Shadow Lair entrances within those (As is with the CW). I understand the point you're trying to make here, but how could you possibly bring trophies into the Guild Hall saying "We defeated Darkfire Vanaduke!" when you can complete them in the Arcade? The whole original point in the Elevators was for the Display Cases, because it's the only way to ensure that four Guild Members participated. Also, the regular elevators feature more heat and crowns, as well as a different difficulty level than the Guild Elevators, so I don't see that as a problem.
6) At first I wasn't sure if that was sarcasm or not.
7) You mean change it to like Point 3? I suppose I can do that. It is a widely-suggested item, after all.
8) Yup, I believe I know what you're trying to say. I didn't foresee it happening that way, but that may be better all things considered. When I say it's restricted to Guild Masters/Officers, I mean adding new "threads", not replying to them.
Hurrah. Victory.
I have just edited the OP to follow-up with your feedback. As always, it's highly appreciated and invaluable.
Thanks,
~Sev
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 22:59
#72
Awesome. Sorry if I came off
Awesome. Sorry if I came off pushy, it wasn't intentional. Yeah, point (6) I wasn't contributing anything, I was just complimenting the idea.
How many dungeons and what each should contain is a very complex ordeal...Doesn't seem like we've come up with any absolutely brilliant plans yet. :|
Yes, a second Auction House is fairly pointless.
Ah, So you're in GMT+15/GMT-9. That makes it fairly easy.
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 04:59
#73
TL;DR ALL OF THIS
It seems you guys are really running away with this idea. I love that this is being discussed so far and wish a mod would post here or something to let us know if this.... conglomeration of ideas for guild enhancement is being thought about.
Will attempt reading all of this when I'm not so tired.
Edit: Just figured I'd let you know that when copied from the forum (the OP only) into open office on my laptop I got a 5 page paper. :) Great work guys.
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 08:40
#74
@Hexzyle:
Oh, okay, lol. When you said that you didn't comment on things you liked, it made it look like (6) was sarcasm. :P
I have to agree with you, what I came up with is a basic outline...but it's not exactly refined.
GMT+15/GMT-9....sure...whatever floats your boat dude. XD
@Skold-The-Drac:
Hahahaha 5-pages huh? Didn't know it was that long.
Thanks, Skold. :)
~Sev
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 16:28
#75
SUMMARY COMPLETE!
I've turned the Great Wall of China into a...well...little...wall of china.
Anyway, it's smaller. I'd say roughly half the size. At least. Like, it only takes two mouse-wheel scrolls instead of 6. Even though imo my OP is way cooler. At least it'll give lazy readers a chance to remain sane. :3
Hip hip hooray~
~Sev
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 16:42
#76
Ok, so.....
We have boards, furniture, crests, quests (beauty of an idea), coloring (I LOVE COLORING!!!), guild focused dungeons (spaztastic-ness between parenthesis), achievements (insert more spaz), vault, visitations, what else are we missing here? I mean.. jeez. XD
We are missing... wait for it... It's on the tip of my tongue...
I forgot... :P
I had an idea and I lost it.
@Sev thanks for shortening it, but I think if we condense it any more valuable life-saving content may be lost lol
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 17:11
#77
@Skold-The-Drac:
I think it'll be hard to add any more content to Guild Halls without making Haven useless. LOL. But, that's why I edited Elevators and haven't included what some people suggested (Like a bazaar within your Hall). I may take out Mineral deposit machines as well, for said reasons.
I may add Wiki-page-links to the Colors in case some people don't know what color I was referring to. Just thought of that..might be a good idea. :p
As for the condensing of the Great Wall of China, I totally agree with you. That's why I took off Tovvok's summary. It was WAY too summarized imo. Not to mention he didn't really include half of my ideas. I left out elaborate details, but I didn't REMOVE stuff.
I'm going to edit the OP with said Wiki links for convenience. Thanks for mentioning them. lol.
EDIT: Done with the links. Should be very easy to tell which colors I am referring to now.
~Sev
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 17:17
#78
@Sev
You only make Haven
@Sev
You only make Haven obsolete when you add in convinience content for stuff that is in haven or add in duplicate or near duplicate ideas (such as mineral deposits, miniture auction house, etc)
And that's your timezone. Means I know when you're going to reply to my posts. I'm in GMT+9/GMT-15 which means I'm 6 hours ahead of you, which isn't that much. If I sit up to midnite doing stuff (which I usually do) you'll be reading my posts in the evening. (I think that's right)
@Skold-The-Drac
Just because a mod doesn't make a post doesn't mean they haven't read it or aren't considering the idea. Conversely, just because a mod posts on a thread does not make it 10 times as likely to be implemented than one that the mod hasn't posted on.
Keep your hopes up. This hasn't been graveyarded yet, so it obviously holds water.
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 18:29
#79
Didn't read the entire thing,
Didn't read the entire thing, but +1 and many cookies to the bulletin board (anyone with permission can edit) idea. Some of our members have been lax reading our forums (me included), so an in-game device with postings would be really helpful.
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 23:34
#80
@Hexzyle:
Yeah, that's why I'm trying to repurpose the Mineral Depot. Just not sure what else to make it into. Maybe I'll just take it out. I've been mulling over it for a couple days and I just can't see how I can make it into something more useful.
I'm glad they haven't Graveyarded it, and hope they didn't just read it when I first made it, but have kept up-to-date. It is SO much better now than it was when I started.
lol Yes I know it's my timezone, but I don't go by GMT. GMT+9/GMT-15 is basically foreign language to me; we just call it CST here. :P
@Aylnine:
Thanks for at least reading some of it. :P The bulletin board was indeed a great idea. As I said in my OP prior to anyone posting, feedback is usually what truly finishes an idea. Only, 20-40% is an understatement here. I think at the very least 50% of my OP was based on feedback. Which is unusual. Exciting, but unusual. lol.
~Sev
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 03:27
#81
Tossing mineral deposits
I honestly think I'd toss the idea for now. The guild hall, if all of these suggestions are followed, will have plenty of power and getting used to. So for now I'd drop it, let the mods see all the work in the OP that we have so far, and then pray at least some of it gets used.
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 10:18
#82
What I was wanting all along
I was hoping someone would suggest this, I want the guildhall to be more, like it was in the preview event, not the drab, boring, and dull place it is now.
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 17:27
#83
@Skold-The-Drac:
Yup I've come to that conclusion too...out it goes.
@Gianor: We all do! :D
EDIT: I have re-named the thread, since when I started it was a try-and-see idea, but I believe it's ready to be called a true suggestion now. Special thanks to Hexzyle, Mwahahaha, and of course, everyone else who suggested great ideas. Couldn't have done it without ya. *discreet bump*
~Sev
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 17:47
#84
good idea
this is a widespread idea, but one of the few logical ones. I want to expand on boss training: insttead of boss training, guilds can buy "pens" with crowns, and a little energy, where monsters that drop no coins come out, and you can practice on them; a slime pen, train up on slime fighting! got a problem with wolvers? develop a tactic!
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:42
#85
@Arkate:
In other words, an addition to the Training Area. I did say in the Training Area section "This area could have many various enemies, obstacles, etc.". This leaves a lot of room for OOO to do really whatever they want in there. I suggested some things but truly specified very little in terms of absolutes.
So, when I say "various enemies", it could very well be that. But no boss training, for reasons previously said. While I never specified which enemies, it's up to OOO; I'm not sure if they find an issue with normal monster-training.
~Sev
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 21:31
#86
yeah
I agree no boss training just practice on enemies
Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:18
#87
@Gianor
What was the Guild Hall like during the Preview Event?
Thu, 01/26/2012 - 15:29
#88
@Hexzyle:
I didn't think it was any different with the exception of Rudkin. I thought it's always been the same, hence this thread. lol
~Sev
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 13:44
#89
Alright guys..
Just because I made the topic say it was complete, doesn't mean you dudes can't suggest any ideas anymore. It's not like it's flawless. I just did that in case the Devs read it prior to all the updates I made (I'm optimistic). lol
~Sev
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:41
#90
Typing Perserverently...
I realized that, but my idea needs to be refined to the point where it will make sense when I add it to the thread. Fear not, it will come soon!
~M
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 18:09
#91
+1
I'd look up some more to add to that, the list you've put up seems a bit short compared to the total number of guildhall threads that I've seen...
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 19:28
#92
@M:
Oh, I just said that because nobody else had posted on the thread for like two days. Not necessarily you. :P
@Fehzor: LOL You're the first person I've seen on the forums who said my OP was "Short". But, at the time of the making of this thread, I had never used the forums before (as was specified prior..), so I didn't know how popular GH update threads were. In fact, I B-lined for the Suggestions forum without even noticing the Search bar. So, there you go.
~Sev
Fri, 01/27/2012 - 22:51
#93
Well you've done a good job.
Well you've done a good job. How about going around asking people if you can merge their guild ideas into your thread? That might help. Or just looking around at dead Guild Hall threads to see if there's anything you can scavage/rewrite better so it doesn't die like theirs did?
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 01:38
#94
Scavenging dead threads.
Whilst scavenging dead threads, I found a couple ideas that are at least interesting. All the others either were impractical or I've already covered:
1) "Arcade portal
http://img192.imageshack.us/i/arcadeteleportcopy.png/
basically a direct route to the arcade docking floor." Found within HawtKoffee's thread.
Relative to this, Cricketheart's thread mentions portals to ALL areas of Haven (Town Square, Bazaar, Arcade).
2) As well as a Guild Spawning Point (found in same thread) that you would spawn at instead of Haven.
That's really all I could find. Everything else I had already covered, after looking at probably 25 other threads of GH upgrades ranging from Summer '11 to as recent as Jan. 6th '12. Most of the threads were almost Copy+Pasted from the others, lacked detail, and were very short.
So, what do you guys think about these 2? Yay or nay? Do they get the approval stamp?
~Sev
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 16:26
#95
+1
+1
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 18:55
#96
@Severage
Yes, they both sound decent. It's a little frustrating how there is only one place you can come out of the guildhall. If that guildhall visit rotation thingy that was suggested before is implemented, possibly you could emerge from there upon exiting a guildhall too. Spawn in guildhall...sounds alright. That way you could kinda "check in" to say and your guildies could say hi rather than guildchatting it to you. Makes it a little more personal. These two could probably just be minor details that could be added in. :)
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 23:09
#97
@Hexzyle:
Alrighty then, I'll add them in as so-called "minor-details" and not as Pay-to-use upgrades. I don't think it'd be necessary to buy that...most people wouldn't. It's just a tad bit of convenience, after all.
~Sev
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 15:08
#98
Resurrection
All of a sudden, all my revisions and efforts to create an informed post have all been for naught.
So, long post short: Agreed with the portals, minor details, free-to-use.
In addition though, since Hexzyle was kind enough to bring it up, I'd like to re-emphasize the use of an actual door to the Guildhall(s)....the portals to GH make it seem as if GH exists, but is simply not part of Haven (or Coral) at all; the point of the door and roulette system is to intergrate GH into Sk and Coral as a whole, and make it an interesting and interactive part of the game.
On a side (and extremely random-off-topic) note, you'd most likely see an increase of 'Sims' players starting to play SK simply for the opportunity to decorate an empty room....hope that doesn't take away from that point that GH uprades that have been mentioned are primarily for the enhancement of gameplay for current players of SK.
I noticed that we scuttled away from the idea of mission creation and their implementations...and so concurrently tripped over a small jelly, fell off the edge of a Clockworks tunnel, landed on Vanaduke's head (consequently, and quite accidentally sticking a rather sharp and large Faust into his head, thus cursing and killing him), and came eye to-well, proverbial eye with an idea about an idea that we haven't really discussed:
What if, during a mission, the levels were to be...dynamic? Of course, this would introduce a much greater level of difficulty, and would be core to the newer levels of the Clockworks yet to be introduced.....my focus being the undiscovered Clockworks that one stumbles into after defeating Lord Vanaduke.
What do you guys think? An idea that deserves some thought, and could be implemented into the OP (and perhaps the name of the thread), or an idea that should still be kept taboo in this line of thought until the admins (hopefully) peek at this wonderful train of continuous thought and decided to incorporate GH upgrades?
Lend me your ears!....and brains!.....Krogmo's beard, can I borrow everything?
For the confused out there, "Krogmo's beard" is a replacement for *ahem* other unsavoury words.
~M
"Knock, knock."
"Who's there?"
"Moi."
"Moi who?"
" 'Moi'hahahaha. LMAO wasn't that great????"
"......" -slams door-
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:23
#99
+1 for M
+1 to M's post, that is all
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 14:35
#100
Expansion on GH Vault, Recipe Machine
As I was leaving the forum, I was struck by yet another proverbial lightning bolt and suddenly had thoughts about the circulation of CE.....
Let's be honest, everyone wants CE, and at low prices. If there's a new knight who knows not the value of CE and sells 100 CE for, let's say, 200 CR, he's going to be jumped and mercilessly pounded until he sells that CE to some bruiser who lied through his skin pores to get that deal. In short, CE is pretty important; a pillar holding up the crafting system.
Has anyone, though, ever questioned where the CE comes from? The CE market is player based, and so regardless of whether or not you place an offer or insta-buy CE/CR, some player somewhere receives that payment, albeit 2% for the energy sellers, and you get your CE/CR.
Pretty simple, right? Seems like this is going nowhere? Well, I'll be happy to tell you that you are a short-fused, short-sighted Blast Cube, because we're just getting started!
Let's say you just bought some CE, and you're all pepped-up to alchemize that new Voltedge you've been waiting so long for. You run for the nearest recipe machine, open it up, check to see if you've gotten the right amounts of materials, enough heat in your Boltbrand, enough CR and CE to make the Voltedge, then after a short but anticipative breath, click on the 'Transmute' button.
Lo and behold! You are now the proud owner of a new Voltedge, perhaps with a few UVs if you are lucky. Infused with pride, you run for the Arcade, hop on the Jelly King elevator, and proceed to cheerfully bash all visible monsters in their proverbial faces--but you never stop to think " All that energy I used.....where did it go?"
The answer is both clear and endlessly baffling: It simply disappeared.
That then begs the question of where the CE went to, and how it comes back, but asking that would be like asking the meaning of life; utterly pointless, with a right answer no-one knows, possibly not even the staff of Three Rings. It's also not the point of this post.
The point of this post is this: why let all that CE disappear when you could re-use it for better purposes? Instead of letting it disappear, I propose that there be a bonus for anyone who uses the recipe machine in their GH; that is to say, all CE spent on crafting would be deposited in the GV (or a portion of it) for use in upgrading one's GH. In this way, the process in acquiring decorations for the GH would go much faster, and the time where there are awkward looking GHs (due to lack of objects that should go together, but have not been purchased due to shortage of CE) will be considerably shortened.
Alot of intro, but yes, I was on a roll again. My bad.
What say you?
~M
all those are very useful. doing that will bring more players in.