Before anyone decides to click off this, Hear me now: Just because this type of forum has failed repetitively doesn't mean I don't have some new ideas that would make this work better than most other ideas.
Let's simply begin with the Pro's/Con's of Dual Wielding.
-More hits per second
-Less Damage Per hit
-At low ranks, can only DW weapons within reason (i.e: Not things like two 5* Caliburs/Brandishes)
-Can dual wield two different items within the same weapon type (Say for instance a sentenza + argent peacemaker) ((Le obivouso choice))
-Dual Binding costs Crowns depending on the * level of both items
-Can dual Wield two different * level weapons
-Dual Binding can be removed/attatched via tokens (Can be bought from token trader)
If you think that you see any major holes contradicting this, Please make a comment showing them.
Dual Wielding.
@Skyguarder
Yet you only give us 9 times.
@OP
I dunno about this one. If you mean dual wield within reason as in only allowed with two different damage types, then I'd agree. Although I'm confused as to how this would work with bombs?
On topic, "more hits per second with less damage"..
Your suggestion is already in the game, if not graphically, but in spirit. Cutter line.
@Sonosuke
When I said Dual Wielding was suggested at least 10 times, I meant this thread too.
I UNDERSTAND, that this has been suggested over 100 times, But I simply want to try my hand at making a suggestion about this particular topic that won't fail like the many others! As for the dual wielding of cutters, Let's just say this: If a small debuff was added, this could altogether be ignored.
Let's do some algebra.
TDP = 2/3 of DPS
DPS = x 2.5 Base DPS + Trinket Bonuses
Meaning, that there will be a 1/3 reduction from Base Damage, even when it's a stronger weapon. You'd be surprised how much 1/3 can be.
Did you read my post carefully? I said that mechanically, your suggestion is already in the game. Cutters are fast-attacking, multi-hitting weapons with relatively low damage.
In essence, there is no need to suggest dual wielding, rather to work on what we have.
However, What I am suggesting would be the fact that you can dual wield more. Heck, You could dual wield cutters if you wanted to.
What about the bombers who have been neglected? This would be a good update for them, not to mention the fact that you could have even MORE combonations, Including the status effects and the extras you can potentially get from just crafting/upgrading your weapons!
Which would be impossibly complicated to balance. Dual haze bombs? Screw damage. Double Nitronomes? Nothing can get close, ever.
I don't think you understand how much this'd widen the gap between "strong" weapons and "weak" weapons. Dual Calibur means nothing in the face of a Dual Brandish combo.
Mixing more than one line is also a terror to balance. Vortex + anything else at the same time without any gear requirements, for example.
However the problem is that I usually end up being the least specific.
can only Dual Wield weapons within reason
That being said, there are just some weapons that need to be restricted from dual wield, But as is I would just not have the time to list all the unavailable DW's.
...which would create an even bigger gap, or just switch it around.
(Below post may contain bits of sarcasm, or otherwise confusing notes and phrases. Apologies in advance towards anyone suffering from offense from thi-
Aw who am I kidding? No one reads my stuff anyways. But seriously, this is my preferred way of responding to stuff.)
...Why dual-wielding has generally been at first rejected, frowned upon, treated with contempt, and eventually been farted at by most of the active community in Spiral Knights.
-Shields? You know, the stuff that stops the other stuff from hitting you and taking the red (or silver) (or gold) stuff from your bunch of cool-looking stuff? It's deemed that it's impractical to go into tier 3 (if even 2) without a decent shield; at least the Swiftstrike can at least absorb some AoE stuff, like zombie breath. Ewww. Try running FSC with a Brandish (most OP weapon I can think of at the moment), and tell me if that's decently possible.
-What about UV's? You know, the stuff that makes your stuff destroy more of the enemy and their stuff than your stuff could usually without the extra stuff helping your stuff? Take shard bombs, for instance. What if you got CTR max and damage max on both?
-Logic? You know, the stuff that prevents other stuff from going bat *feces* insane and messing up other stuff? How would a second weapon somehow make your first one do less damage? After all, you ARE using only your right hand to do all that slicing and dicing and putting holes into and stuff with no problem.
Well I may have forgotten to put in the Pros/cons list that you can still use a shield with dual wielding (They kind of are just floating in midair, therefore not giving your knight any extra weight to deal with, etcetc,
As for the UV's I'd let others decide the value of being just that lucky and whether or not to remove something that REQUIRES hours of creating weapons, much less getting the same exact UV's!
And the whole reduced damage? Well put this into logic, Wouldn't it be a bit OP if having the same amount of damage would be? You're fighting twice as fast, with normal damage, Not to mention trinkets!
Who would want to play without shield cancel anyway?
WITH SHIELDS. Gee, that's not insanely unfair at all. After all, 4/3's of any weapon TOTALLY won't be able to completely swarm all other "OP" single weapons, like Brandishes, Blitzes, and mist bombs.
/sigh.
I did mention a restriction,
However the problem is that I usually end up being the least specific.
can only Dual Wield weapons within reason
That being said, there are just some weapons that need to be restricted from dual wield, But as is I would just not have the time to list all the unavailable DW's.
let's see, why do you want dual wield?
not because of more damage, all right.
because of coolness? well then, why not only aestethic then?
you want to balance weapons this way? no thank you, I would like to nerf brandish, not buff everything else.
I thought the Cutter counted as Dual Wielding.
I'd support Dual Wielding if there was a method that didn't include forking out for the ability to do it or losing the ability to... you know, stay alive.
Dual Wielding is only really useful when you can fire both weapons at once, but when you can do that you become OP. And if you can't fire both at once you may as well have 2 weapons in your setup and switch weapons when needed.
The main reason that Dual Wielding has been regected is that everybody's tired of hearing it, so therefore never really works together to slowly make the suggestions work. Also, Using Spiralspy, I have found that there is an unused (Bone Weapon L).
Hey Liminori. I recognize you and I see that you are trying to do the same idea in a much more civil manner than the first time around. I'm going to poke at the idea that has constantly been focused on throughout this thread.
"can only dual wield weapons within reason"
This means giving gunners every single gun as dual wielded, while not allowing bombers to dual wield, while buffing cutters in the wrong aspect and buffing brandishes, well, in the wrong direction. Charge attacks would be ugly to see; could you use both at the same time? How would the control scheme work out? By saying within reason you automatically make this unreasonable because everything that benefits from dual wielding needs a nerf. Excluded from this are the blitz needle (unreasonable to dual wield), winmillion, cutters, and magnus (don't benefit enough to be viable). And then there's your point about less damage per hit which automatically restricts it to cosmetic use in which case you should go check out Autofire's thread. I applaud the effort though.
I'm still not sure what "dual wield weapons within reason" is supposed to mean. If it's something along the lines of "no dual wielding the same weapon/damage type", then I'd understand.
Do you know what this game needs? Double Plume Accessories all colors then EVERYONE WILL BE PIG-TAIL KNIGHTS MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Dual Plumes is better then Dual Wielding anyday.
The strength debuff still gives a small enough bonus that you're still doing more damage than before just because of speed.
However, Many people would still make the mistake thinking that it's just to look cool, But I suppose that people don't notice these things without doing math. Even near double attack speed and damage would just make everything too op instantly.
As for the massive list of unfair weapons with the UV's and trinkets, Well. . . UV's need to be removed on Dual Binded Weapons, Meaning that you can't get supermaxblaaaaaaaaaaaaaahs against everything.
Players shouldn't be able to enter LD matches with Dual Locked Weapons, Until the switch weapons.
Edit: Aaaagh, What the heck do you have against dual wielding!?!?
Bah, Sorewa baka.
I want a double ploom right now. Devs, make this happen.
Lockdown will die from Polaris Spam
(Copypaste) Players shouldn't be able to enter LD matches with Dual Locked Weapons, Until they switch weapons. (Copypaste)
Is this enough? I put this in my last post.
@Liminori
The main reason that Dual Wielding has been regected is that everybody's tired of hearing it, so therefore never really works together to slowly make the suggestions work. Also, Using Spiralspy, I have found that there is an unused (Bone Weapon L).
No, the main reason it's been rejected is because there are some already great threads on balancing it, yet new thread makers like you continue to create the same threads but with less thought and planning:
General Mechanic Discussion by HexZyle
All Weapons Dual-Wieldable by Fehzor
Examples of Dual-Wieldable Weapons by Autofire
I am but a 13 year old without practice of posting, not to mention the very small amount of time I am given to think this through.
Had I the time, I would revise this.
Dual wielding Valiance, have one charging while the other is firing its charge, combine this with having level 10 on both of them giving CTR, CTR from something like Perfect Mask of Seerus, and a trinket for CTR and you have the most OP knockback combo in the entire game. *charge, bang, charge, bang, charge, bang*...the charge time would be ridiculously fast even for just one valiance, but with two of them alternating you could be almost constantly firing the charge attack, this would make PvE way to easy and if, god forbid, it was allowed in LD, you could have 2-3 people spam this on points while a haze bomber stands in the middle of them and the team would be invincible, and this is just an example of the massive problems with dual wield showing only ONE WEAPON. Although dual wield would look and feel totally freakin awesome to use, the amount of game-breaking exploitations, unbalancing, and difficulty nerfs would be astounding.
@Liminori
I am but a 13 year old without practice of posting, not to mention the very small amount of time I am given to think this through.
Had I the time, I would revise this.
Well that's good. As long as you learn from your mistakes.
Not saying you're the problem here though. The biggest issue is the search engine for this forum. It sucks.
I hear it's better to search for the threads on google than on the forum itself.
Make a guardian elite be able to wear a Sudaruska + Triglav combo =p
Not only is the limited time on the computer affecting everything I do, But sometimes, I feel like the suggestions forums should be a place where people work together to see what can be done with what ideas are floating around, and how to make them better.
But I'm sure everyone seems set against things such at that.
Liminori, that is what the suggestions forum is for. But if there is already a thread for a particular subject, just post on that one don't make a new thread. And if the idea is just bad, there really isn't anything you can do about it.
Whenever I think of duel wielding, I always think of a knight in Vog Cub Armor with the DA and GF.
That to me makes it seem disgustingly overpowered, even if you change up the damage outputs.
In a simple word. No.
As an SAO fan, and a HUGE SK fan (being my first game I really ever played) I would LOOOVVVEEEEE to see dual-wielding! You would lose a shield and your second weapon, but it would be fricking awesome! Leaving behind a little damage from each hit for major hits per second and like 1.65ish damage per second compared to one sword would be AWESOME! Maybe even allow different arche types of swords to combine for some interesting combos? Maybe even make custom combos where you unlock different attack skills to make a custom combo out of them! Also super awesome charge-ups?. I REALLY want to run around with my Glacious and a Final Flourish wrecking everything!
Here we go again...